General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Long time lurker, finally getting the courage to post...been married for 8 years, together for 10. Met early in college and we're married before we graduated. Have two elementary aged kids and moved cross country a few years ago for more job opportunities - which for the most part has been good, although we have NO family with us.
Originally I thought the move cross country would be a great opportunity to strengthen our marriage (i.e. if we can make it alone together we can make it through anything). Reality hit a few months after the move, and life without family is difficult (an understatement, of course). Making life more difficult is beside me working full time I'm in graduate school. Prior to my starting school I asked him if he would support my decision to go back to school, and the responsibilities of everything that would require of him and he agreed.
My husband also works full time and does have a good job...but over the last year our life has intensified with his life staying (what I view as) the same, while I've kept on with all the household duties. I've always had issues with this I guess, it just seems worse now because I've been in school and cannot keep up with everything. My breaking point finally came about 4 months ago when I told him I resented him for not helping out with the kids and house; I was tired of being criticized for being tired, or not wanting to have sex, and for him getting annoyed with me when I cannot sit and watch tv with him every night because I have to study. He ended up being mad with me for a couple weeks over that conversation, but has started to make strides to improve. I can tell he's making an effort to somewhat have the house picked up and he does now read to the kids at night before bed.
Coupling with this ongoing issue of partnership is the strain his parents put on our relationship (particularly his mom). They came to visit us for Christmas and she would periodically send some 'zings' my way. I would vent to him while they were here about some of the stuff she wuold say and he would just tell me to ignore it, and although it was difficult to do - I did. After they left I became more hurt that he did nothing to stop his mom. I completely understand the difficult position that would be (between a wife and his mother), os I talked to him a few days after they departed and told him how upset I was. He told me he was completely oblivious to the comments she was making (even though I would bring some of them up when they were here). I finally told him that I've held my tongue over the last 10 years out of respect, but if it happens again and he does nothing, I'm not holding back anymore.
So here I sit pondering...I know life is hard, and relationships take work, but is this what I want to wake up to for the rest of my life? It seems as though we've become more like roomates. I love him, but I am not in-love with him. Part of me feels guilty for feeling this way, even after he's attempted to be a little more helpful around the house, but the other part of me feels like it's just a little too late. I know things could be so much worse. The kids are what really throw a wrench into things - they love us both and they are priority. I love him as a person, and because he's the father of my children, but is that enough? Do I continue on with the negative/neutral feelings I have for their children's father for the sake of them? I guess I never expected to feel lust for the rest of my life - but is this normal to have such 'blah' feelings?
Not sure what to say, not knowing what his mom says to you, but I do find it interesting that you both complain of having no family with you and complain about the family that came to visit.
I definitely think you are going through something and it is related to being overworked.
You have to work at your marriage to keep it healthy. There's a great little book you can give your H and ask him to read it. Hold Onto Your N.U.T.S., from bettermen.org. Basically, it says you get to stay yourself when you marry, but realize that you now have more than just a responsibility to yourself. I highly recommend it.
Another website posits that you have to spend at least 10-15 hours per week just on 'you' time - that is, you as a couple. If you don't, you WILL become roommates, and fall out of love. Those things you did when you were dating, you still have to do them!
He has a good job. Spend $100 a month on a weekly babysitter so you two can spend a couple hours each weekend going out. Be creative and find other ways to spend time together - baths together after the kids are asleep, jigsaw puzzle, planting flowers, reading your studies out loud...you have to work at this, ok? Do that, and you'll be fine.
As for his mother, just be adult about it when she's there and point out to her that she is hurting your feelings. If she doesn't realize it, she'll stop. If she does realize it, you have given her fair warning that you will from now on stand up for yourself. Don't beat yourself up over whether your H will 'defend' you; just take care of it.
Sounds like Mr.Husband needs to sacrifice a little more. My wife sounds like you she is the eternal "I want to do more" person and is constantly in school for something and works full time. Someone has to take up the slack when momma is studying, right? It seems to me he should know who that is!! In the end you guys talked about your dreams and he understands them, right? Your happiness should be important to him........I think you are a little resentful and that's why you feel the way you do.
... breaking point finally came about 4 months ago when I told him I resented him for not helping out with the kids and house ...
There is no help. There is only responsibility. He cannot occupy a space until you withdraw from it. Are you ready to see your husband take responsibility for 60% of your joint life, to learn from his own mistakes about what works and what does not, and eventually to settle on solutions that will likely be very different from what you would do?
There is no help. If you want him to drive, you will have to let go of the steering wheel. He cannot simply be an extra pair of hands attached to your body.
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... I was tired of being criticized for being tired, or not wanting to have sex
Having a husband who tries to "help out around the house" will demolish your sex drive. If you ever advise him on what to do, or tell him he did not do something right, he has only two options:
1) Wisely inform you to back off from his area of responsibility and give him the time and space he needs to come up with his own project and solutions. This will preserve his dignity, and as such will preserve your view of him as a worthwhile man who you desire to be with.
2) Unwisely listen to what you have to say and attempt to do his task your way. This will kill his self respect, and you will see him as a weak and pathetic man who cannot even do dishes right.
If you want your sex drive to return, stop bossing your husband around. Tell him you want him to be responsible for certain household tasks, and then trust him to use his good sense and his imagination to come up with his own solutions.
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I love him, but I am not in-love with him.
This just means that you love him but are no longer attracted to him physically. Love without desire = "not in love."
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Part of me feels guilty for feeling this way, even after he's attempted to be a little more helpful around the house ...
The more he helps around the house, the less you will desire him. A man should never help. A man should take charge of some fraction of household duties and then proceed to do them his way. This fraction may be 30%, 50%, 70% as needed based on which partner is most overwhelmed outside the home, but whatever jobs he does, he must do them his way.
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So here I sit pondering...I know life is hard, and relationships take work, but is this what I want to wake up to for the rest of my life? It seems as though we've become more like roomates.
Love is more valuable than desire, but lack of desire is what kills most marriages. Why? Our society understands love, but pretends that desire does not exist. The consequence is 10 years of decline followed by "I love you but I am not in love with you." Do not panic. Desire is easy to re-kindle, love is very difficult to find.
To desire your husband, you must feel him as caring and committed to you ... but most of all you must trust him to be a confident and dominant man who recognizes the right path and then sticks to it without self doubt or weakness. Your husband's biggest challenge is not how he is going to handle the extra load of housework, it is how he is going to handle you.
Does your husband know any ballroom dancing? Maybe the two of you should take lessons together. Make sure that wherever he leads, you follow. And have fun.
If you want your sex drive to return, stop bossing your husband around. Tell him you want him to be responsible for certain household tasks, and then trust him to use his good sense and his imagination to come up with his own solutions.
This just means that you love him but are no longer attracted to him physically. Love without desire = "not in love."
For the most part, I think your pretty right on...although I dont boss him around. I will admit I am the outspoken/dominant person in the relationship, but when things dont get done I tend to NOT say anything...anylizing myself I take it as more of a personal insult...something like why wouldn't he feel getting this stuff dont is important to him if he knew it was important to me, sort of thing.
Again, you may be right on again with the physical attraction. Personal hygiene has slagged off some since we've married...and I cant say that it's a turn on.
For the most part, I think your pretty right on...although I dont boss him around. I will admit I am the outspoken/dominant person in the relationship, but when things dont get done I tend to NOT say anything...anylizing myself I take it as more of a personal insult...something like why wouldn't he feel getting this stuff dont is important to him if he knew it was important to me, sort of thing.
Again, you may be right on again with the physical attraction. Personal hygiene has slagged off some since we've married...and I cant say that it's a turn on.
Your husband needs to re-earn your desire. The good news is that it is much easier to re-kindle desire than it is to find love again.
It is not completely his fault that he has become a weak, indecisive, and submissive man. Our culture has forgotten about the importance of desire, and men are constantly told to behave this way.
There is also nothing wrong with having a wife who basically controls things. However, for this to happen both the husband and wife need to have a great deal of confidence in themselves, faith in their partners, and effectively communicate without delay when something starts to go wrong. Since this kind of relationship does go somewhat "against nature", I find it helpful to create environments where the man is totally dominant. Some people do this in the bedroom. I prefer ballroom dancing.
Nooooo....he does not know how to dance. At all. Nor is he a leader in the bedroom. Never has....think of plain vanilla. Any attempts to spice up or bedroom activities has been on my doing. Most of the time he has been up for it, but then it tends to go back to vanilla.
A man should never help. A man should take charge of some fraction of household duties and then proceed to do them his way. This fraction may be 30%, 50%, 70% as needed based on which partner is most overwhelmed outside the home, but whatever jobs he does, he must do them his way.
This is interesting, Alex, but what does one say to the man who says, "My way is not folding clothes; they don't need to be folded." or "My way is leaving everything undone and then doing a big clean up once every X (and X could be, once/week for the kitchen, once every month for the bathroom, once every 4 months for other rooms).
just curious. It seems there needs to be some discussion of standards to be attained. I'd have no problem with someone getting to those standards in a certain way. Many men tend toward "needs reduction" (don't need to iron. . . ) as a way of "handling their household responsibilities. Just an observation based on experience and what the research says.
I've read that the person to whom a particular chore matters the most is the one who should do that chore. Throw all the chores on a whiteboard, and start ticking off the things you're willing to do cos they 'have' to be done the way you want. What's left over is what you debate on. Of course, you have to be married to a man willing to even DO work!
This is interesting, Alex, but what does one say to the man who says, "My way is not folding clothes; they don't need to be folded." or "My way is leaving everything undone and then doing a big clean up once every X (and X could be, once/week for the kitchen, once every month for the bathroom, once every 4 months for other rooms).
just curious. It seems there needs to be some discussion of standards to be attained. I'd have no problem with someone getting to those standards in a certain way. Many men tend toward "needs reduction" (don't need to iron. . . ) as a way of "handling their household responsibilities. Just an observation based on experience and what the research says.
Any man who does not jump at the opportunity to define his own destiny needs to be educated about the benefits of doing so.
Example 1: I heat my house 100% with firewood. I invest ~600 hours per year to buck, split, move, stack, clean, and burn. I must wake every winter night at 2:30am to feed my hearth. Does this sound like a "chore"? I enjoy every minute. Between May and October, when there is nothing to do but wait for my firewood to season, my days are restless because I have lost a needed lifeline to the rhythm of nature.
Example 2: Occasionally, I help my wife clean a bathroom. I am out of my element, unskilled, unenthusiastic, and insecure. I do not enjoy the job, I am convinced I do it poorly. The 2-3 hours per year that I spend on this are certainly a "chore". I hate every minute.
What is the difference? Buy-in. If a visitor asks about dish washing, firewood heating, toddler bed time, garbage/recycling, or any other area which I am responsible for, I have the answers. The spotlight is mine. I matter. I am not a guest in my own home, but a participant in the life of my family.
Like Stilton blue cheese, household responsibility is an acquired taste. Yet no man who knows the flavour would reach for a Doritos "fat pack" over fine Stilton & bread. I am sorry, so so sorry, for husbands who think that domestic life is like checking into a hotel managed by their wives. Such men are mere spectators to half of their own lives. They spend their evenings gorging on Doritos and never know the secret bliss that lies in the malodorous mouldy cheese right under their noses.
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I've read that the person to whom a particular chore matters the most is the one who should do that chore. Throw all the chores on a whiteboard, and start ticking off the things you're willing to do cos they 'have' to be done the way you want. What's left over is what you debate on. Of course, you have to be married to a man willing to even DO work!
In 10 years of marriage, my wife and I have had one moderately serious argument ... because we both wanted to do more "chores". I convinced her that she was doing 70% to my 30%, and I was able to negotiate 60%/40%. We both vigorously defended our turf. As a woman, my wife knows the value of owning her own life. As a wise man, I know the same.
In other words, a lazy husband does not need to be prodded into doing more. Let him feel the joy of owning his own life. Let him taste that stinky Stilton and he will be addicted to more and more.
Be warned, you are inviting your husband into a world where he is very insecure, inexperienced, and vulnerable. You may feel threatened as he clumsily waddles around in your china shop. If you swipe him back from your "turf", he may merge back into the couch and forever surrender his life. You will be exhausted and alone. He will miss life entirely.
Yes, Alex does sound like an anomaly. Maybe future generations will be luckier.
As to you, OP, you sound like you are willing to give something a try. It is really important that you try to make sure he understand how serious this is because of how it affects you. Then you can start discussing what he needs to be responsible for. Many people won't step up to the plate even when they are told the seriousness, but all you can do is try. Good luck.
Waking up to the rest of my life... 
