skitown

I am fairly new to this site. With this post, I am mostly venting - as I think my trusted friend has probably heard enough for a while.

One of the primary issues I have in my relationship with my husband is money and financial security. We have made some really good long term decisions - strong retirement accounts (that can't be touched) and strong home equity (with less than 10 years on the mortgage). It is our short term financial situation that is killing me. We have barely enough to pay the bills - and are trying to pay off the "bad" ones. Here is a little bit of history from my perspective.

We both have good salaries that are comparable, however, our financial values and priorities differ. I am trying to establish a strong savings account for financial security and of course to handle those unexpected expenses. It seems like every month something comes up and any money in the account is gone and I am messing around with our accounts trying to figure out which one I can use. I hate this. My husband and I have discussed this and he agrees that we need to pay off our bad debt and put any extra money we have in it. Yet he is surprised that a year later, the main credit card is not paid off. I explained to him that the difficulty is living within our means so we do not have to use the credit card for some expenses. I told him I do not know what to do when there is no money in our checking account yet there is no food in the house. I approached him with a weekly allowance of $200 that he can use for whatever he wants. Food and gass do not need to come out of this. That would come out of the remaining $ we have weekly. My allowance that I give myself is $30.00 (yes, that is right). He went ballistic and told me that he wants to go to the bank whenever he wants and get cash whenever he wants. I was furious and just dropped it.

What our situation stems from is some of the other decisions we have made. If you look in the garage, there are motorcycles, atv's, boats and even a nice expensive tractor. The payment on these toys was more than my car (something that I use everyday). I do not understand why these things are needed. While he talks about paying off the bad debt, he continues to badger me about other things we need. Example - after working a 13 plus hour day yesterday, I called him like he has asked me too - and all he starts talking about is his latest materialistic need. Today, I saw him for about 5 minutes and the same - I had to hear about it again. I can't take it anymore. This is a daily thing. I eventually give in and we end up with another toy or something else that is not needed.

I am not quite sure if this makes sense, but all I really want is my financial independence again. I do not think this is a reason to divorce, though I am so unhappy - I am so tired about hearing about his needs and taking care of his needs - the love is gone, I am drained and soo tired. He does not believe in separate checking accounts - but if he wants things that I don't why should I pay for them.

OhGeesh

Seems like you are looking for a bit of validation for your opinion. Any ultra conservative financial guy can give you that shoot Dave Ramsey can give you tha advice all day.

It's all about comprimises and dreams together. My wife and I could save 3k a month more than we do, but why? To save more money and then die? To save for the worst? To save and then leave it to the kids? To save save and then never be able to spend it? Happens all the time.

Our retirement plan puts us at 55 at a conservative 4.9% growth. I have a 80K sports car, she drives a Audi Suv, we go on trips, we go out to eat, etc etc.

Do we need that stuff? Nope......everyone is different I'm sure you guys talk about it you can find a happy place!!

turnera

Well, it sounds like you keep giving in because it's 'easier' to give in. I gather that means, rather than having a big fight.

So what do you want? To be able to pay your bills, or to avoid a fight?

Frankly, if I were you, I would tell your husband that you are going to shut down the cards if he doesn't stop spending until the cards are paid off. And if he refuses, shut them down. If the cards don't let you shut them down, the cards can always disappear, if you know what I mean. He could still get to the funds if he works hard enough, but at least this would be a postponement - no immediate gratification - and you may have time to talk more about it.

This may sound extreme, but HE is being extreme by ignoring your needs, despite countless conversations.

I'm sure you're not as bad off as I am. We were making great money, had separate accounts, husband had tons of credit cards, I just assumed he was paying them off - until I found out he wasn't. Add in job problems, him sitting on our old house for FOUR years before getting it sold (yes, four years!) so we had two mortgages, insurances, taxes...now we're 100,000 in debt. CCCS told us to declare bankruptcy cos we'd never get it paid off; he refused. So I took over the bills; after a year, I've got it down to around 85,000, but we still don't make enough each month to pay the bills. How? Dave Ramsey Homepage - daveramsey.com partially (My Total Money Makeover) and using QuickenOnline (it's free) and paying bills online through my bank and a budget. Plus, I signed us up for Financial Peace University, so that my H would have to sit with a group of people who are learning how to work a budget. Of course, he doesn't agree with Ramsey's plan to cut up your credit cards, but I think it will rub off on him.

I would recommend following that route.

In addition, you may want to go down the route of understanding the psychology of his issue. He definitely has one, and you would do good to find out what it is. With my husband, it was that he came from utter poverty (scraping for food out of trash bins to feed his brothers and sisters), and he had something to prove. Do some research and see what you can find. If you know what it is, you can address it.

skitown

I will look into those resources. Thanks. Yes, these needs I believe are based on his upbringing - where his family was not poor per se but struggled financially - and they still do. We have helped his family members as well. I believe he achieves a feeling of wholeness and success by having these things. I do want him to enjoy life - but there has to be a balance. We both could enjoy life sooner if we both buckle down. And have a better relationship.

OhGeesh

Awesome glad Dave Ramsey's plan is working for you!! I can't stand him.......his story is alot like Glen Beck's both screwed up royally in their youth and now their preaching pendulem has swung far far to the other side.

Paying interest sucks I'll agree, debt sucks, and for people in crappy situations that need intervention being radical is the only way.

If the whole US followed Dave Ramsey's plan the economy would cease to exist. His principles aren't sound in the real world. Push comes to shove he believes if you don't have cash don't buy it. What does he want the barter system back?

He is like a recovering AA that says no no drinks ever ever ever!! Good luck in the end I hope you guys find a happy place.

turnera

Oh, I agree. He works for people like my husband who can't control themselves, to realize that they can, indeed, live without debt. I think it's a great lesson to learn for so many people today, who grew up with credit cards in their hands, and never really 'saw' real cash. Once you go through it, I think, you can ease back into the real world with a smarter attitude.

Personally, I started getting upset when I saw the layaway departments going away, cos I realized that people were debting themselves into h&ll. What? Yes, I'm that old. I think it's neat that KMart is advertising layaway again, now that people are realizing what not having a savings account and getting upside down in interest payments does to you.

skitown

Interesting point of view. Back in the day - at least with my parents generation. Cash was the only option. The only loans my parents had were the house and cars. That is it.

We could diverse into a socio-economic conversation, but will not go there. Perhaps Ramsey's plan won't work for everyone, but I will look into the suggestion.

I am trying to pay cash for everything now - not even use the checkcard.

MEM11363

OG,
Why such a big chip on your shoulder about this?

My parents had a good income - only ever borrowed money for house - paid cash for all else. During that era most people operated that way and the economy flourished and people got richer as they aged - instead of riding just above a zero net worth for decades as people do now.

Clearly you earn a lot of money - we also had almost a decade where I earned twice what we spent. Now I don't need to take that 300K/year consulting job I am about to get offered because with her salary and my part time consulting we can live nicely because at 47 we have ZERO debt.

Peace of mind and not having to be a high paid white collar bittch are worth driving my 9 year old S60 instead of that Viper I would prefer to roll in.

OhGeesh

That's awesome and your choice!! My point is in the world of economics, business, and commerce big growth doesn't occurr without debt or better put without leverage. You take that away you limit yourself greatly!! My gripe with Ramsey is he doesn't condone debt for any reason even investment purposes.

If you strictly say "debt' as in buying material items I can agree, but even then it's a personal choice. In the end we all have to find our happy place and one size definitely doesn't fit all.

Good luck sorry for coming across as a prick.

Freak On a Leash

Sounds pretty bad and you are sounding quite reasonable.

I think your husband might have a problem psychologically. This could be something he can't help or isn't quite aware of. Addiction to spending/buying is a symptom for a lot of mental disorders. Whenever you mention taking away his ability to spend your husband goes into panic mode and reacts viciously, even when your suggestion is a reasonable one.

I'm speaking from personal experience...and I'm looking at from your husband's side. Ten years ago I was just like him. I was addicted to spending on toys and our family was over $30k in debt on credit cards. I'm better now but it's like being an alcoholic. To this day I can't own a credit card. All my spending is cash or with a debit card. Please try and get him to a doctor and get rid of those credit cards so you don't get in any deeper.

If he won't see a therapist then perhaps you should so you won't feel so alone and can get a handle on things. Divorce, or at least knowing what that option consists of, might have to be an option so that you at least don't get old and find yourself without an income. You might want to consult with a divorce lawyer.

BTW, Bankruptcy isn't so bad. Yes, your credit stinks but living on a cash economy is a good habit to get into. I'm a big believer in having your own separate checking accounts and money that you can call your own. Heck, my kids have an allowance, why shouldn't me and my husband have as well?

Good luck. I feel your pain..and your husband's as well.