Crypsys

My wife and I have been married now for 11 years and we have 3 children with #4 child due in the middle of October. The Mrs. and I are currently stuck in a rut and I'm looking for suggestions or ideas on how we can get out of the place we are currently at.

We are your typical busy family, both of us work, have extra-curricular activities, etc. On top of that the Mrs. is also taking online college courses towards her PhD. Right now (understandably) the Mrs. is pretty much in full burnout mode. Our relationship right now at best would be defined as ships in the night. I can probably count on one hand the # of hours a week we spend with each other, much less just being together. Our sex life is pretty non-existent as well.

We have discussed her feeling over-burdened many times and I keep telling her to give something up, as we cant continue down the path we are at right now. Those discussions always end fairly badly with no middle-ground being found. I already handle all of the household chores except for clothes (I vaccum, cook dinner, clean, mop, get the kids ready, put them to bed, play with the kids exclusively, etc). Heck, in the past 5 years I've gone out with my friends or by myself only once. Our weekends are spent with her doing course work and me wrangling with the kids and household duties.

My wife knows this is causing us problems, but she seems so unwilling to budge with anything she's doing. I've tried just accepting the situation, but it keeps getting harder and harder. I don't like feeling like I'm living with a roommate. I'm also really missing the intimacy we used to have.

I've gently told her my feelings a few times, but the few times I did I was met with a "I'm already stressed enough, all you are doing is adding to my stress level. It will get better, I promise." Most times I just keep quiet, because I really don't want to add more stress.

We aren't considering divorce, separation or anything, but I too am getting burned out as well. I'm not trying to make myself sound like uber-husband but from what I can physically do I don't see or know what more I can take off her hands from her. My wife is a great person as well and before all of this we did share responsibilities equally. I don't mind shouldering the load, but I am getting tired of shouldering the load and the lack of relationship to boot.

I guess what i'm asking is am I acting like a whiny un-grateful person (no she's never said that)? Should I just "man-up" and live like this for the next few years? Because I know once the new baby comes, it's even going to be MORE hectic. Or is there some way we can make this situation better that I'm missing?

LaStrada

I haven't been married nearly as long, and I don't have children (yet) but maybe I can lend you a fresh set of eyes/ears...

I think we all go through those stages where we shoulder the load for other person - Then they take it a bit - On and off. What you're doing is obviously an expression of your love not only for your wife, but also your children. And it sounds like she understands and appreciates that.

I don't think it's necessarily appropriate that an attempt to discuss your feelings with her becomes an "added stress" - I think you need to find another way to peacefully talk. If the time you're able to spend face-to-face is limited, try writing a heart-felt letter. I would avoid giving suggestions on how to fix things or any complaining, but just let her know how the current arrangement makes you feel. Let her know you miss her.

Is it possible to hire a helper? Maybe a baby-sitter for a few hours a day? You need some time for yourself...Maybe a family member could lend a hand or a college student looking for some part time work might be able to be your nanny, so you can find some time for yourself again.

Crypsys

Our younger children already spend 8+ hours in daycare and our older children are in school that time. The last thing I feel they should have is to come home to a nanny or other helper to take care of them as well. By no means am I saying anyone who DOES do that is a bad parent or anything. But, my personal feelings on that issue are fairly strong.

I could hire some kind of maid service to clean, but honestly that doesn't take a huge amount of time. For me personally being busy isn't the problem (I am soo much a type A personality) but the lack of true connection IS a problem for me. I'm not a loner, I love being around people, interacting, etc. My wife is your typical type B, very shy until you get to know her.

I will consider trying a maid service, but don't you think that's just putting a band-aid on it? I'm not so much burned out from the work, more so burned out from the lack of contact, does make sense?

LaStrada

Yeah - It might be a band-aid...But how much longer does she have in her program?

If it's short-term enough to the point where hiring some help frees up the extra time you need to re-connect, then it might be worth it...If she's still got two or three years, then yeah...Another solution might be the best approach.

Either way, it comes down to time - I totally agree with you on spending time with your kids and agree that having someone else take care of them is less than ideal...You may be fine with doing all that, but if it means freeing up that extra 2-3 hours you need to talk, have dinner, see a movie, it may pay dividends in the long run when mom and dad are still together.

Crypsys

She has at minimum at least another 3 years to go in the program. Problem isn't me freeing up time, it's her. Since I already handle the household chores, me getting a maid would only help me and not her. She would still be busy doing X or Y for her job or school. I'm just at a loss as to what I can do to help her. By the end of the night she just wants to sleep and i'm still bouncing around wanting to talk. I generally get the "I'm just really exhausted, I want to go to bed." I know I can be a pain to live with sometimes (I usually average about 5 hours of sleep) as I am fairly hyper. So that leads to some frustration on my part as well and is something I am working on to try and understand her point of view. I can find times on the weekends and nights to spend time together, but she usually has something to do for either school or work and is too busy to spend that time. What I'm beating my head about is getting her to realize how important that time is to us. Just me telling her isn't working (i've tried both the argumentative type, the letter and just overall discussion) her answer every time is pretty much "This is just a phase, it will end."

Crypsys

I e-mailed Mrs. C this site and the posts I made (we have always been very open with each other). I gave her the address and let her read these and other posts. I told her to take her time and let me know when she'd like to talk.

After I got back to work from lunch I found an e-mail from her to me. Even though we had discussed things before, her seeing what I wrote and seeing your guys responses (and other posts) must have made something click in her.

She said that one of the reasons she had been so distant is because lately she felt like she didn't deserve me. She felt that I had been doing everything for the family and all she had been doing was focusing on herself and ignoring everyone around her. She said the more I did for her, the more resentful she became because she felt like she was worthless. She said she is so incredibly sorry that her own insecurities had caused us this problem. She didn't fully realize how deeply I felt and how much it was bothering me. She told me that she is going to take next semester off college since the new baby will be due around that time.

She also wrote that she wants me to work on listening to her vent more and less time trying to help her solve it. She said she just wants me to be there and support her, not be Tim the Toolman Taylor and try to fix everything all of the time.

She did like your idea La Strada and would like us to find a maid service for a while to lessen the load. So I guess I have you to thank for that new bill that will be coming in, thanks a LOT!!! :-p

Finally, she wants me to stop trying to be super-dad and husband and let other people do things. She said at times it can be really annoying because I try and do everything for everyone. She said there is a fine-line between being helpful and being pushy. What do you guys think?

I called her up a little while ago and told her how much I love her and that I am the luckiest man alive that she chose me to be her husband. I wanted her to know that I was the blessed one for her putting up with me, not the other way around. I knew I was getting my wife back when she replied "You're laying it on a bit thick there Picasso. If you put it on any thicker I am going to have to get hip waders"

Its interesting to me that we discussed things for a few months and never get anywhere. Then just one day, it clicks. Honestly it almost seams surreal to me.

I guess the real work here is to keep working to ensure we don't fall into the pit again?

Advocado

It has put a smile on my face to read your last post and see that you have reached a turning point. Good to hear that Mrs C will be taking some time off, and with having help in the house hopefully you can set aside some regular "quality time" together as well as both spending quality time with the children at the same time, rather than individually, if you see what I mean.

QUOTE
"She also wrote that she wants me to work on listening to her vent more and less time trying to help her solve it. She said she just wants me to be there and support her, not be Tim the Toolman Taylor and try to fix everything all of the time."

There is a recent thread called " Ladies, I need your help" which has lots of tips on listening actively without necessarily trying to solve things. Worth a look if you haven't come across it already.

QUOTE "
Finally, she wants me to stop trying to be super-dad and husband and let other people do things. She said at times it can be really annoying because I try and do everything for everyone. She said there is a fine-line between being helpful and being pushy. What do you guys think?"

I'm not sure if this means she want you to do less within your own family unit or less for extended family/friends or both. Maybe you can both take time out to clarify what specific things you could stop doing/what she wants to do instead of you as time permits. It may be there are some things she wants you to stop doing as she feels they don't need to be done at all (by way of simple example if my husband were to take up ironing socks it would annoy me somewhat, and I'd want him to stop and I would not iron them in his stead) or there may be some things she wants you to continue to do but not do as often.

turnera

Crypsys, I will advise three things:

First set down a once-a-week hour where the two of you sit down and just discuss your marriage. One hour, where you are honest, helpful, not judgmental, working together to find solutions to whatever comes up that week.

Second get out a posterboard and write down everything that has to happen each week, including her study hours. Write it all out, down the page. Then, you two take turns choosing something that you will be responsible for, until everything on the list is accounted for. She needs to reprioritize her life so that it includes you and the kids. If her schoolwork is taking too much time to allow that, the schoolwork HAS to be cut back. Your kids are simply too important for her to be invisible throughout their formative years. A degree is not that important and they'll be gone all too soon.

Third, you need to be creative and find a BLOCK of time EACH WEEK where just you and your wife are together without the kids. Period. You HAVE to. Or you will end up divorcing because you have fallen out of love and you've forgotten why you were together. Family, church, I don't care...find someone to take the kids off your hands for at least 2 or 3 hours a week in a block of time.