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Old 06-20-2010, 09:06 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to become more intimate?

Hey OMG,
You sound very much like me. Be the first to accept the blame, look inside to change, constantly trying and trying and still not getting what you need. I write this as a precursor to MTís warning Ö

ďDummy? It's not a word I would use, but you are being deliberately slow on the uptake. My guess is, that your anger and resentment is pushed so far down that you can't even begin to fully connect with it. I would not like to be in your wife's position if you ever do. Tip from me - don't get violent - run out of the house where you can do no harm. Yes I'm seriousĒ.

Itís taken me 6 months to work through so much anger and resentment thatís itís unbelievable. I had so much anger and strong dislike for my wife that I knew she was in serious physical danger from me. Iím not overly passive but Iím normally calm, I normally go even calmer in a crises. This time I didnít, something blew and I even nearly asked my eldest son to fly out to protect his mother from me. I actually became fearful of how next my wife was going to hurt me. All very powerful emotions that are so rare it confuses the mind. And all that with my wife who Iíd loved for 40 years.

Please keep this in mind as you will walk your path through life.

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Old 06-21-2010, 09:14 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to become more intimate?

Hmmm... not sure if I'm in agreement with much of what is written in these three post. While I don't feel my wife has been treating me fairly, I don't think it has been a conscious plot - well in the middle years , yes I think it was conscious but then it was the "I am not treating her up to spec" and, I wasn't then.

I take offense to my wife being called twisted if you were saying it as an intentional action on her part, if due to the abuse, I unfortunately believe she has been twisted a bit.

Obviously, it would be hard for me to say I've not allowed myself to be a doormat in this realm... Also, since while I believe I am acting properly toward my wife, I also see that I'm acting exactly as a person would do in my "defined" circumstance and as such it would be hard for me to do otherwise than argue it away.

Thus I will keep all this in mind and do my best to make certain these issues come to the attention of the professional working with us. Who knows, I may even revisit my individual counselor and have him take a look at this and see what he thinks.

Thank you so much for you time and repeated attempts to help this sink in with me.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:11 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to become more intimate?

OMG,
I hope that you remember that people can tell you their views and opinions only from their vantage point. I get that sex is really important to some people, and to some it's their most important identity.

There cannot be an abuse when an adult consciously accept and "choose" to be where he or she is. That person can always choose to somewhere else. It takes incredible amount of courage and strength to consciously choose rather than letting your unconscious history repeat itself. Most people are too afraid to look within and choose based on love. Most people unconsciously react to fear.

Only you know your own truth, and what other people, including myself, tell you are their views about the world and themselves. Don't let other people's fear infect you.

I hope that you stay your course and don't make a decision out of fear. That is the courage and strength.
Take care!
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:33 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to become more intimate?

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Originally Posted by OneMarriedGuy View Post
Thus I will keep all this in mind and do my best to make certain these issues come to the attention of the professional working with us. Who knows, I may even revisit my individual counselor and have him take a look at this and see what he thinks.
Personally, I think you're better off with individual counselling. Your marriage problems are the result of the combining of your baggage with your wife's. She has little intention of shedding hers. However, you seem determined to work on yourself, so if you can find a really insightful counsellor, you might be able to take a few short-cuts.

You are way too hard on yourself. You are a nice guy who is doing all he can. Give yourself a break
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:44 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to become more intimate?

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Thank you WantsHappiness(forAll)

I've good news. So last night we had a bit of a tif over very little to do at all. Prior to bed I asked her if she wanted to dicuss it (we have been doing pretty good at this) and we did. Got past the little tif (more a phrase meaning different to the receiver that to the giver - communication to the rescue!)

Afterwards, as I said I done everynow and then over the months and was gong to make a point of doing more often, I asked her how I'd been doing meeting her needs. She said she did not want to go into it at that time (it was really late and she did look beat) but would like to discuss it sometime and "to be fair she would ask the same back to me". THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!! Yes, since she never did I've come out and approached some things with her, but she has NEVER ONCE shown a concern for it on her own in the past. Well with her, saying is one thing and doing yet another (my work video, sex promises, sex therapy are some listed in the curent post/novel) but at least it shows progress! I was pretty excited and told her so!

Because of other commitments I certain these conversations will not happen today but I will at least bring my side of it up again maybe Monday or Tuesday.

ALSO she told me today she was not planning on going into her store on Father's Day and that she had an idea of something we might do together with the kids! It may seem odd that I'm this excited but it but after batting a big zero from her on Valentine's Day this year I really was not quite sure what to expect.
Well of course I do. Peace and love, man

I was very glad to read your good news here, omg. The fact that you were both able to resolve this particular tiff to an acceptable conclusion on both sides is good. The fact that she was open to a deeper discussion is even better.

More good news that she had done a 180 on Fatherís Day. Did you have a nice day?

Now, what about the follow up conversation that was supposed to happen? Please follow through on this. Do not let it slide, you will be enforcing a pattern if you do. Instead, enforce your need to have the discussion. Sometimes (and especially in the beginning) itís my husbandís insistence on having the conversation that really helps me keep from avoiding it.


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There cannot be an abuse when an adult consciously accept and "choose" to be where he or she is. That person can always choose to somewhere else.
Whilst the second sentence is very true, an individual who is physically beat but chooses not to leave their situation is still being abused, period. It does NOT excuse the abuser. Same goes for emotional abuse, just because someone does not wear the scars on their skin does not mean they do not exist. I have truly enjoyed your perspective on this, questions, as I do most of your posts but I hope that you will never say something like this to someone who is being abused. Yes, only they have the power to change their situation but abuse is abuse regardless.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:37 AM   #111 (permalink)
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While I'm afraid that the topic of abuse could take away from the core of this thread, I'd like to expand and clarify my statement.

First, in this particular situation with OMG, I don't think that OMG perceives his current relationship is abusive. He has "consciously" chosen to become a different person and he's in his journey of becoming that person. He has actively decided to be where he is now to work on that journey. IMHO, I don't see an abuse here, especially when OMG doesn't see one after much examination.

There are clearly circumstances where a partner's behaviors are "abusive" and the other partner is unwilling or unable to see the "abuses". There are no conscious choices here, and this is a situation where some forms of intervention are desired and often become necessary. Some believe that OMG is here, and that's why they try to point as strongly and urgently as possible to shout "abuse alert!".

My statement applied to OMG's situation specifically. I personally see a very mature and conscious individual who is trying his best to improve himself. I personally don't see any form of abuse in this particular situation.
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:16 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to become more intimate?

Thank you for the clarification. It just sounded like a blanket statement.

I understand your expanded feelings on the definition of abuse as it pertains to omgís situation as Iím not exactly clear myself as to whether or not that is the case. As mentioned throughout this thread we cannot possibly know everything without walking a mile in his shoes but at the very least some boundaries clearly need defining at some point during the counseling process.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:56 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to become more intimate?

The abuse is in the form of deception. She is telling him she will love him in the true (marital) sense of the word if he does x,y and z. But she won't and knows at some level she won't. That deception is a type of abuse.



Quote:
Originally Posted by questions View Post
While I'm afraid that the topic of abuse could take away from the core of this thread, I'd like to expand and clarify my statement.

First, in this particular situation with OMG, I don't think that OMG perceives his current relationship is abusive. He has "consciously" chosen to become a different person and he's in his journey of becoming that person. He has actively decided to be where he is now to work on that journey. IMHO, I don't see an abuse here, especially when OMG doesn't see one after much examination.

There are clearly circumstances where a partner's behaviors are "abusive" and the other partner is unwilling or unable to see the "abuses". There are no conscious choices here, and this is a situation where some forms of intervention are desired and often become necessary. Some believe that OMG is here, and that's why they try to point as strongly and urgently as possible to shout "abuse alert!".

My statement applied to OMG's situation specifically. I personally see a very mature and conscious individual who is trying his best to improve himself. I personally don't see any form of abuse in this particular situation.
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:59 PM   #114 (permalink)
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The abuse is in the form of deception. She is telling him she will love him in the true (marital) sense of the word if he does x,y and z. But she won't and knows at some level she won't. That deception is a type of abuse.
That's only one of the abuses - although it's tragic in that the worst resentment one can experience is the kind triggered by being constantly promised something but never quite receiving it.

For instance, there is a phenomenon called the "dopamine crash". This can occur when someone gets excited about the prospect of something fun or deeply pleasurable. As the anticipation of pleasure (yet to come) builds, dopamine levels rise, and this rise feels very exciting. If at the last minute, the expected activity is cancelled, the dopamine levels to crash, and elation turns into depression. If this is experienced repeatedly with the same person, it can be sheer hell.

Look at the excitement that the two promises of this post brings:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMarriedGuy View Post
Afterwards, as I said I done everynow and then over the months and was gong to make a point of doing more often, I asked her how I'd been doing meeting her needs. She said she did not want to go into it at that time (it was really late and she did look beat) but would like to discuss it sometime and "to be fair she would ask the same back to me". THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!! Yes, since she never did I've come out and approached some things with her, but she has NEVER ONCE shown a concern for it on her own in the past. Well with her, saying is one thing and doing yet another (my work video, sex promises, sex therapy are some listed in the curent post/novel) but at least it shows progress! I was pretty excited and told her so!

Because of other commitments I certain these conversations will not happen today but I will at least bring my side of it up again maybe Monday or Tuesday.

ALSO she told me today she was not planning on going into her store on Father's Day and that she had an idea of something we might do together with the kids! It may seem odd that I'm this excited but it but after batting a big zero from her on Valentine's Day this year I really was not quite sure what to expect.
If either promise gets broken, it will trigger a crash.


The shower-head stuff coupled with her letting him get involved only to a minor extent and at her command, while also having online flirtations is another example of abuse.

The fact that he puts up with it is self-abuse.
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Last edited by MarkTwain; 06-21-2010 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:25 PM   #115 (permalink)
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OMG,
I'm sure that you know your wife and the dynamics of your relationship better than any of us. I'm just a big fan of what you're doing here with your endeavor to better yourself and your relationship with her.

Personally, I don't believe that others have any power to make me feel anything I don't let myself feel. If I feel angry, hurt, sad, happy, it's because I chose to feel that way and not because of others. I don't like to give that kind of power to anyone, including my DH. In that sense, I feel fully responsible for my own emotions. I can maintain my peace knowing that I'm not a victim. If I'm awake and conscious enough (which is very, very rare), I occasionally ask myself what Jesus would do in this particular situation. In that way, I at least know what my ideal answer would be, even if that's not ultimately what I am capable of doing at the moment. While I don't expect many people to share my views, I get the sense that that you might be more open this view.

The most wonderful gift is always the one that's given with no strings attached, and love is the same. I'm just a cheerleader here with an occasional reminder to you to become gentle and loving to yourself in this path. You'll reap the benefits of the path you're on now, regardless of the outcome of your marriage.
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:54 AM   #116 (permalink)
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When adults abuse each other, there is often an element of self abuse. The fact that his OMG's wife has a sex drive is evidenced by her frequent shower-head sessions. But while she fantasises about sex with others, she keeps him carefully positioned in the background. Thus she continually displays a kind of sexual repulsion for him. This is surely abuse, but there is a self-abuse element due to his long term condoning of it.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:22 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Hello friends, just wanted to pop in and let you know I am still here.

First off Father's Day was very nice. I enjoyed it and my wife was fun, very attentive and loving, kids were fun and loving as well. I worked a bit (own choice - darn ground ivy), relaxed a lot (good swimming pool) and did a together project with my young two boys of assembling and planting the tomatoes in their upside down garden thing.

Abuse, sure I think abuse qualifies as a descriptive word. I think she has had her share of it from me in the past as well. OK, this one is not in the past it is still ongoing...so were the others until the patterns/habits were changed. No, I'm not down playing it. It is extremely painful. It is to the point now where I don't even want her to see me naked as it embarrasses me. No, not my nakedness, the fact that my nakedness has about the same effect as old wallpaper to her.

That being said, we haven't gotten to working on this problem yet (in counseling - the only place it has a chance) and until it has had the effort and fallen flat I don't believe it is time to give up.

One way or the other I think my wife needs this to come out and be worked on in counseling, either marital or individual as I think she is missing a lot in life being surrounded by the castle she has created. True, it may not ever be me that reaps the rewards (and yes if that is the case I know I would at times have pity parties - or totally T'd off parties - for me) but it would be unloving of me not to want the best for her.

And while I've gone from feeling undesirable to undesired (a step up), I am not content with just that for myself either, I wish to be desired. I would prefer that it would be my wife that I become content in this arena with and intend to explore that direction first.

Last edited by OneMarriedGuy; 06-22-2010 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 07-06-2010, 03:23 PM   #118 (permalink)
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MT, just an FYI. I stopped talking my meds for a while and you ARE correct. The pain, resentment, hurt, etc from living in this rejected state becomes MUCH worse (not to mention I get hornier more often which accentuates the problem). It becomes a struggle to not let it affect my mood with her and others.

At any rate I'm going back on them now. Yes, to dull the pain, to give time for counseling to approach the issue and in general just to be happier and enjoy my life better. Yes, I realize I am burying my head in the sand. It was getting tho the point that I would sleep on the couch rather than feel the rejection. Quite a "cut off your nose to spite your face" move as I also quite need the snuggle time with her.

So, in general I'd have to say being off the meds led to a downward spiral in our relationship, due to it allowing a single missing portion to weigh too heavily. What I was missing became too much of my minds focus instead of appreciating on all the wonderful things I do have.

PS - "I had to take a breather from this thread. Your guilt-trip hurts me." I don't think that was necessarily meant funny, but it does make me chuckle still - I mean looking outside in, I can rather see your point.

Last edited by OneMarriedGuy; 07-06-2010 at 04:18 PM. Reason: added PS
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Old 07-06-2010, 03:38 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Don't drug yourself. Don't do that. You'll never ever discover who you are while you're on drugs.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:01 PM   #120 (permalink)
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The who i am and who I want to be did not change meds or no. Only the rejection, pain resentment and my reaction to it was harder to keep in check and be the person I want to be.

It's like this...I AM in this situation. I am apparently not going to be out if it anytime soon. We have more things to work on and it will take time. I can either live with more attention and appreciation for what I DO have or live with more attention and pain from what I DON'T have and in the process possibly even take away from some of the good things that I DO have.

It doesn't blind me, it just lets my head leave the situation more quickly and get on with the rest of my life sooner. Part of the reason I got off for a while was rather to do a check of where i really was and to see if I did still need/desire to be on them.

Last edited by OneMarriedGuy; 07-08-2010 at 02:45 PM.
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