General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
So we have been together for about 5 years, married for 1. There has been kind of a drifting apart happening. That "new love" feeling has subsided and I am aware that love now takes some more effort. We have both read The Languages of Love and started to discuss it. I go above an beyond in my efforts in our marriage. I show my love very often and in very different ways. I feel no effort on her part. When I tried to find out what she considered her primary language she ended up revealing that she isn't even sure what love is. This was definitely heart breaking to hear my wife say. She grew up in a household with two parents who essentially exist as roommates. I have never seen any love or passion between them. I believe my wife equates love with that new passionate "in love" experience in new relationships. Now that that feeling has passed, she doesn't know what love is, and I believe she is seeking that feeling again with another person.
I have spoken to her best friend about this, who is becoming a closer friend of mine because of all of this. She is blown away that my wife doesn't even see all of the loving things I do for her. She tells me most women would kill for a man like me. They are just expected for my wife. It is like I have been so good to her all along, I set the bar at "normal" what for most would be "great husband." So now, I can only drop below normal when I am not exceptional. I can never "earn points" or surprise her, but only not disappointing.
My love tank is on empty, yet I'm still finding reserves to continue to try to fill hers. But it's like there is a hole in her tank that causes the love I give her to pass right through. This has been growing increasingly difficult now that there is another guy she talks to frequently and is at minimum having an emotional affair with.
Right now I feel like my wife is going to find that "love" feeling with someone else, and that feeling will soon fade, and only then will she realize how good she really did have it...but at that point I will be long gone.
Do you have any advice for me? How can I open my wife's eyes to what real love is?
Sounds like my life a couple years ago...are you my H from the past? JK..
As a wife who had an affair and honestly the way you were talking about your wife opened my eyes to how i feel about love, I had parents very much like hers-never even seen mine kiss, IDK if I ever saw a real hug either. But I would talk to her about this other guy.
The other man in my case was a best friend of my H's and really we hung out, alone for a long time, became really good friends and nothing ever happend for a long long time, so maybe she is just friends but you never know. But at least ask about him or share your concerns, one thing about love is it involes honesty. And she may or may not be honest but at least talk about it, confront her before things can get out of hand..have her friend talk to her and try and talk some sense into her how dangerous cheating really is
Like I tell my H, Im not affectionate, Im just not. Its not because I dont love him its just Im not used to it..and what I would love to help my relationship is more dates, find something that the two of you can do together
MrRomantic, try though they might, I don't think anyone can help with your question. That is, for one thing, because love is different for everyone, and your wife knows what it is for herself, so it certainly isn't something you can teach her. But it's mainly because I don't see the problem as being that she needs to know what love is. What she needs to know is what commitment means. As far as loving her, from what I can tell of your two threads, you are doing things right. You are loving her and showing her that you love her. I don't know that any woman could want for more. I think she is thinking there IS more. Or as you say, she wants that "new love" feeling all the time, which is entirely unrealistic.
She needs to understand what commitment means. Along with that comes the understanding that she is supposed to pour all her efforts, all her energy, all her time, and all her faith into you and the marriage. That's what she doesn't seem to get. She also needs to know how it feels to be in your shoes, where you give someone else your heart, thoughts, time, and attention. She needs to know how hurtful and disrespectful it is.
That sounds right on. How might you suggest showing her about committment. I do feel like I am doing the right things here, I just feel someone else needs to tell her that what she is doing is not right. She has shot down counseling the one time i suggested it...
If only she were looking for answers through resources like these...
my husband had a mother and father who never showed affection and it was really hard for me with him he doesn't like to hug kiss or even act like we are a couple hes just like his dad he doesn't like to do stuff with me very often and I wish he would. It leads to all kinds of problems things can change if she can BUT that is a big IF its their norm. I hope that something gives in a good and great direction, my husband has changed enough to suffice me but still long for the hugs more and kisses. best to you and her
As I was writing, I added some thoughts that I ended up deleting because I didn't want it appear like I was blaming you for her behavior. The fact remains she needs to know that she is supposed to commit herself to the marriage, forsaking all others, and not inviting other people, feelings, and distractions to come between you. That's the point of the whole matter, so I erased what alexarene touched on. Often times, one person in the marriage feels there is something lacking, which might be the case with your wife. There may be something she needs you to provide for her that she is not getting. You are familiar with the 5 love languages and although you try your best, there may be more to it. In this case, she needs to express that to you if she hasn't already. Have there been any complaints or concerns that she expressed to you? It could have something to do with that "new love" feeling. Like perhaps you have settled into married life and have become accustomed, so maybe she needs more attention, more affirmations, or something else. Nevertheless, whatever it is, if there is anything, that is no excuse for her behavior. And I doubt that is really the problem since she has expressed she might have gotten married too soon. Which means more like you are doing all you can, and she has cold feet like you said.
To show her how it feels is risky business. You take the risk of alienating her and literally sending her into the arms of another man. This depends mostly on her own frame of mind - whether she wants the marriage or whether she welcomes an out. Either she will be hurt and quick to realize what she has and is currently abusing, or she will use it as an excuse to exit the union. I'm not sure you are prepared to take such a risk. Though it is a ruse to get her attention, it could very well backfire in your face. Personally, and this is just my personal standpoint, anything is better than tolerating this kind of disrespect. If my guy wanted out, I would push him faster than he can run. At any rate, what you would do is stop giving her attention. Don't be rude but disengage emotionally. Act like nothing matters so she questions if you still love her. It is hard to do when you do truly love her, I know. Or, you would begin behaving the same way she is behaving - the secret texting/phone calls, hiding the phone from her and even taking it to the bathroom with you, spending time with someone else, etc. You don't have to actually be doing these things. The objective is to make her think you are.
What I prefer to recommend is counseling and although you can't make her go, just keep bringing it up. Let her know you fear for the marriage and think counseling will help tremendously. In fact, tell her your marriage depends on it. That should get her attention.
In the meanwhile, express your feelings to her. Tell her how you feel when she does these things. Be honest and let her know it hurts you. That should get attention also.
I forgot to add that if all else fails, you will have to leave the marital home. You cannot allow that she runs over like this, or she will have no respect for you ever. And leaving can also serve to wake her up. Most people don't know and don't appreciate what they have until it's gone. The greater likelihood is you and she will get back together, but there is no guarantee of course. But you will have to leave.
Oh, and when you disengage (if you decide to disengage) you have to stop giving her sex. Again, act like nothing matters, like you don't want her.
Have there been any complaints or concerns that she expressed to you? It could have something to do with that "new love" feeling. Like perhaps you have settled into married life and have become accustomed, so maybe she needs more attention, more affirmations, or something else. Nevertheless, whatever it is, if there is anything, that is no excuse for her behavior. And I doubt that is really the problem since she has expressed she might have gotten married too soon. Which means more like you are doing all you can, and she has cold feet like you said.
Any time I have tried to talk to her about meeting any needs she has, that I'm willing to work on anything, she just says "I need to get over the feeling like I shouldn't be married right now." She tells me she thinks I was the right decision of who to get married to. We spend a ton of time together, the opposite of most problem marriages, but all the same, I think it is just as much of an issue. She says she feels like i'm holding her down and that she wants to feel more independent. I've been working at getting away to do my own things and give her some free time, but now all she does is fill my absence with his presence...
To show her how it feels is risky business.
Pushing her away I do not think is right for this situation. I know she would get even closer to this guy and I want to avoid that. If she really doesn't know what real love is and simply seeks that new feeling, she sure as hell is going to find it.
What I prefer to recommend is counseling and although you can't make her go, just keep bringing it up. Let her know you fear for the marriage and think counseling will help tremendously. In fact, tell her your marriage depends on it. That should get her attention.
I am definitely working on this. Thanks for your advice.
Where is your sense of self respect? Why don't you stand up for yourself? Kissing her azz while she pursues another relationship is certain death to the marriage.
Nicely tell her that if she isn't willing to cut all contact with the other man you are moving out. If she continues to contact him you will file in 30 days.
If she refuses move out and go NC. I think the real issue is you are "over loving" her and she feels smothered/crowded which kills a womans desire/in love feeling.
If backing off makes it easier for her to see the other man so what. Clearly being too nice has been a disaster.
Why would you want to be with someone who has no love OR respect for you? The lack of love could be temporary. But the other man - shows a core respect issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRomantic
So we have been together for about 5 years, married for 1. There has been kind of a drifting apart happening. That "new love" feeling has subsided and I am aware that love now takes some more effort. We have both read The Languages of Love and started to discuss it. I go above an beyond in my efforts in our marriage. I show my love very often and in very different ways. I feel no effort on her part. When I tried to find out what she considered her primary language she ended up revealing that she isn't even sure what love is. This was definitely heart breaking to hear my wife say. She grew up in a household with two parents who essentially exist as roommates. I have never seen any love or passion between them. I believe my wife equates love with that new passionate "in love" experience in new relationships. Now that that feeling has passed, she doesn't know what love is, and I believe she is seeking that feeling again with another person.
I have spoken to her best friend about this, who is becoming a closer friend of mine because of all of this. She is blown away that my wife doesn't even see all of the loving things I do for her. She tells me most women would kill for a man like me. They are just expected for my wife. It is like I have been so good to her all along, I set the bar at "normal" what for most would be "great husband." So now, I can only drop below normal when I am not exceptional. I can never "earn points" or surprise her, but only not disappointing.
My love tank is on empty, yet I'm still finding reserves to continue to try to fill hers. But it's like there is a hole in her tank that causes the love I give her to pass right through. This has been growing increasingly difficult now that there is another guy she talks to frequently and is at minimum having an emotional affair with.
Right now I feel like my wife is going to find that "love" feeling with someone else, and that feeling will soon fade, and only then will she realize how good she really did have it...but at that point I will be long gone.
Do you have any advice for me? How can I open my wife's eyes to what real love is?
Where is your sense of self respect? Why don't you stand up for yourself? Kissing her azz while she pursues another relationship is certain death to the marriage.
Nicely tell her that if she isn't willing to cut all contact with the other man you are moving out. If she continues to contact him you will file in 30 days.
If she refuses move out and go NC. I think the real issue is you are "over loving" her and she feels smothered/crowded which kills a womans desire/in love feeling.
If backing off makes it easier for her to see the other man so what. Clearly being too nice has been a disaster.
Why would you want to be with someone who has no love OR respect for you? The lack of love could be temporary. But the other man - shows a core respect issue.
I agree with you. I think you are right. My current plan is not working. I have been too nice and I think it is completely reasonable to ask my wife not to become so close to another man. I feel like I'm still in the "I don't want to lose her" stage but need to come to my senses and realize that if she isn't willing to stop seeing this other person, then she is not a good wife and I may have to face moving on.
The best way to convince a woman that YOU don't deserve HER is to over love her. It conveys the message that she could do better and that you are trying to compensate for not being her true equal. It will kill almost any relationship over time.
Read up about a 180 and do it. It WILL be hard so steel yourself. But it is the most likely way to save your marriage. If it doesn't work at least you will know you gave it your best shot. You don't want to have kids with someone who has so little respect for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRomantic
I agree with you. I think you are right. My current plan is not working. I have been too nice and I think it is completely reasonable to ask my wife not to become so close to another man. I feel like I'm still in the "I don't want to lose her" stage but need to come to my senses and realize that if she isn't willing to stop seeing this other person, then she is not a good wife and I may have to face moving on.
I agree with all that. Thing is - being "too nice" can kill a marriage. Let me define "too nice".
Lets say I were to tell my wife "I love you" 5 times a day. And lets say I noticed she never said it to me first. To me, that is a clear sign to ease up a little. There is a huge difference between being committed and being "needy". If I say something that often and am always saying it first there it is likely because I "NEED" to hear HER say "I love you" back. And that is a problem.
Being needy is a very unattractive trait, even more so in a man. So I always start out asking people what the love balance looks like. If one is constantly transmitting love, constantly initiating by words, or hugs, or actions love and doesn't give the other person the space to spontaneously and of their own free will - give it back - IME that creates havoc.
And I always tell people - back off - but when your partner does come to you embrace them. Don't play games and act indifferent. When they show love - show it back. But show some restraint if you are crowding them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt Brown
I'm sorry, I thought I read the post pretty closely and I didn't see a statement that she cheated on him... but even so, yes.
affairs are the symptom of a failing marriage, rarely the cause. No one who ever stepped out on a spouse said "Dang, we were doing just great, I was happy, she was happy and then boom, that woman tripped me and hit the ground before I did. I didn't wanna cheat, but there you are."
forgiving someone is one of the powerful things a person can do, letting go of the self important, gratifing, pain that keeps us locked into the past and unable to see the future is not enabling or co-dependent. When we are strong in ourselves, we don't need to blame others.
And as long as we blame others, we don't have to look too hard at our contribution to the problem. And I've never seen a troubled relationship where one partner was pure good and the other pure evil... no mater how much opposites attract
That's not to say that I encourage enabling, or laying down and accepting abuse. If you are true to yourself, if you are going about the hard work of self improvement and growth, then you will come to a place where you can identify your boundries, ask respectfully that they be appreciated, and if they are not respected, come to the hard decisions that ensue with a clear heart.
MEM, I think you are dead on about what I need to do. You mentioned reading about a 180, do you know of a good place to look into this? Or any other advice on over loving?
Great positive example. Thing is - IME it doesn't matter "why" I am saying it. Maybe I am simply filled with love and want to share that. The thing is "over loving" someone tends to make them love you "less" not more.
So if you say it 5 times a day and each time W glows and smiles - don't change a thing. But if she is not reacting in a consistently positive way I think you should ease up. I definitely think it is easy to crowd someone in a marriage and I think the harmful effects of crowding/smothering are greatly underestimated.
And I really can't overstate - you behavior doesn't have to be controlling - to produce a bad effect. Everyone has some level of closeness they want - part of being a good partner is knowing that and respecting it.
My wife treats me more like a boyfriend - romantically - than a husband of 20 years. Reason for all that passion is very high quality love - at a quantity that is just a bit less than she craves. So when she gets hungry for more she comes to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt Brown
you're right in that if you are saying "I love you" as a controlling behavior, (now you say it) to get the high moral ground (I say it more) or out of some sort of codependent behavior it's probably not a good thing, but it isn't resolved by manning up or being less giving or being less nice, it's resolved by self-examination and growth.
perhaps instead of not saying "I love you" because you think it makes you feel needy, the better course of action is to ask... why did I say that, what were my motivations... use your behavior to guide you to ask and answer the scary questions and then grow from there to be a better man. So that when you do say "I love you" it comes from an authentic place and resonates clearly with your beloved.
I have a friend who found that he was always saying "I love you too" because he wife always said it first, and it bugged him. He could have runn with that and interpreted her behavior as needy, (because clearly if it bugs you it must be because she is doing something... right?) but he thought around it and realized that what bugged him was that he was always getting in second.... so he started telling her first at least twice a day, sneaking it in at breakfast, or after washing the kids. Now he isn't bugged when he says "I love you too"
MEM, that sounds great... my DH tells me I love you and randomly and I feel like it's just a scripted thing and it can be annoying. I wish I could be more authentic when I say I love you to him, but I feel the need to respond otherwise he may feel I'm upset or something. MEM love your ideas.
How can I teach my wife what love is? 
