General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
OK, so in my eternal attempt to be the man of my wife's dreams (I once was, but I let that slip), I am researching and trying to put what I've learned into practice. See "My Man Plan".
In a late night tucked in bed conversation, I asked what she thought was attractive. Here's how she responded:
"Politeness (ie being nice, upbeat, and positive)"
-and
"Confidence"
-and also not always talking about our relationship and just doing it...
I think my research is starting to slowly understand how the female mind works in a relationship...
It is virtually a lock that if you start exhibiting self-satisfaction, happiness, confidence, and pride in interests and endeavors outside the scope of your marriage, and reduce the attention you are trying to focus on your wife, she will in turn become curious about what is happening to you.
Somewhere along the line, WE (meaning men) drank the Kool-Aid on the 'talk-it-out' piece. We opened up about our hopes, dreams, and fears.
The last one needs to be stricken from the list. Particularly if your fear revolves around losing your woman.
It is the single synergistic piece that undermines all of the other things you are trying to improve about yourself in order to be more attractive.
As the old adage goes: Deeds, not words.
If you are looking for further insight, you can check out some of the book titles in the following link:
Although very noble to ask your wife's input, know this is also a two edged sword regarding sexual attraction.
TREAD LIGHTLY!
For in matters of sexual attraction, this is fundamental, that the man be his own leader in sexuality.
For such a man to ask for his wife's opinion, this is looking very close to instead he is looking for her leadership. Where this would be great in matters of finance or childrearing or what color drapes to purchase, this is a big red flag for the sexual attraction department!
So in this, be subtle, look for her clues, and important, her REACTIONS to your initiatives.
It is better to SO SOMETHING and find out from her reaction that particular something is not so good, than to be too timid to try anything at all!
But to save time I will post what I have answered to this question last week, and perhaps in detail to be expounded on in this thread if interesting.
***********************
I will beat this drum as often as it needs to be beaten but if at ANY time a woman sex drive is not equal to her mans sex drive or exceeding it, then something is missing in the relationship.
Whatever is missing in the relationship, this piece of the puzzle, this is what this piece of the puzzle is not going to be:
It is never going to be complaining about sex, negotiating for sex, bartering for sex, doing housework for sex, being a nice guy for sex, giving flowers for sex, "being a changed man" for sex.
None of these things are going to work, so whether these things are important to you, they should not be important to you thinking it will lead to sex.
Let me ask, was it about any of these things when you and your woman first met and sex was on fire and incredible?
You don't need to answer because I already know. Of course it wasn't!
To make this simple, to (name deleted) and any other good man reading this that wonders what "the secret is to a woman" or any such thing, it is just this:
A woman is only going to be a sexual to her man as he is making her feel.
Do not make this any more complicated than it needs to be.
The solution, simple.
Stop doing things to make your woman feel like she is not sexually attractive.
Start doing things to make your woman feel like she is sexually attractive.
So what is hard about this? What is hard is that most men I am learning do not notice what makes a woman feel sexually attractive.
These things do not make a woman feel attractive:
Being bribed for sex.
Being desired by a man that is unwilling to stand up for himself.
Being desired by a man she doesn't respect (see above).
Being desired by a man that is unwilling to fight for her.
Being desired by a man that is not desirable to other women.
Being desired by a man that is not desirable to himself.
And these things a woman finds irrestibly attractive:
Being desired by a man that not only knows what he wants, he is willing to pursue what he wants.
Being desired by a man that not only will stand up for himself, but seems to enjoy doing so.
Being desired by a man that commands respect.
Being desired by a man that has demonstrated he willing fight for her (even if the one he is fighting IS her).
Being desired by a man that desirable to other women.
Being desired by a man that is confident and bold and comfortable with himself.
So in all this, if you are a good man not satisfied with the sex life, stop being on the first list, and start being on the second list!
I wish you well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maple05
OK, so in my eternal attempt to be the man of my wife's dreams (I once was, but I let that slip), I am researching and trying to put what I've learned into practice. See "My Man Plan".
In a late night tucked in bed conversation, I asked what she thought was attractive. Here's how she responded:
"Politeness (ie being nice, upbeat, and positive)"
-and
"Confidence"
-and also not always talking about our relationship and just doing it...
I think my research is starting to slowly understand how the female mind works in a relationship...
Maple05, Love your Man Plan -- bravo to you for your initiative. Relationships are certainly complicated and two people must learn to "relate" in order to grow, both individually and together. My husband and I are in a mess and I really don't know what the future brings. If I had my way, we'd be moving forward and not looking back. My husband is still on the fence and questioning our future. It's very rough. At our problem's core, I truly believe is a failure to truly "relate" like we should, as well as screwed up priorities for several years on my end and a lack of "man" communications skills that I could understand as a woman. I don't think your Man Plan is just a Man Plan -- it's a Marriage Plan... something every couple should be given at marriage and something every person should strive to achieve.
As a woman, I think your wife's comments are spot on too. "Politeness" goes a long way for both parties. Common courtesy is often overlooked for the ones we love. Heck, we often treat professional colleagues and strangers with more courtesy than we treat the ones we love. Why is that??? Being nice and upbeat is critical too. Think about when your relationship first started... you were both excited to be learning about one another and were likely oozing happiness. If you'd been a downer to start, the relationship wouldn't have likely gone anywhere. Also, with all of the external stress in the world, it's CRITICAL to make your house a sanctuary for you both and your family. I've screwed this up royally for the past few years and am now doing everything I can to make amends. You both should be happy to pull in that driveway, knowing that no matter what came at you that day in the world or workplace, you've got a safe haven of support and genuine happiness at home.
Regarding confidence, it's an attractive quality in anyone. Strength begets strength -- it's both infectious and comforting. My husband radiates strength most of the time. It brings me up when I'm feeling insecure and also makes me feel safe and protected. It's another thing I've screwed up for the past few years... I let my awful job get the best of me and zap all of my confidence and self-worth. I gained 50lbs, became isolated (because I work from home), lost my previously-killer sexuality, let myself go, and became a puddle of the former rockin' woman I once was. When in the middle of it for these years, I felt trapped, stuck, under a rock...and didn't know how to get out. I'm now out and am stepping up to take all of the actions I need to do for myself. And my husband, although he's cautious to trust the changes, is certainly noticing. More than that I feel happier and prouder with myself than I have in years. I feel that I am worthy of happiness and won't let anyone or any job EVER take that from me again.
As for "talking vs. doing," I think both are critical. Doing and showing love are critical -- they make someone feel wanted and valuable. However some talking, such as expressing verbal love and actually taking some time to touch base verbally on your marriage occasionally, are also important. Most women are communicators and emotionally driven. Most need words for validation and understanding. It's a balancing act for sure.
Sorry for my wordiness. Your post really got me thinking and I'm thankful for it. Keep us updated on your insights and Man Plan experiences, please!
It sounds like you need some more effective communication skills. From listening to you, she has not made it clear to you what her needs are. I know she said she wants more doing and less talking, but that doesn,t help you at all. In fact, it leaves you stumbling in the dark. I have read many relationship books, most have at least something to offer. I will tell you what the best one was, that instantly stopped a fight in its tracks and made us understand each other's needs and get your marriage back on track.
It's called, Getting the Love You Want by Harville Hendrix, Ph.D.
Although very noble to ask your wife's input, know this is also a two edged sword regarding sexual attraction.
TREAD LIGHTLY!
For in matters of sexual attraction, this is fundamental, that the man be his own leader in sexuality.
For such a man to ask for his wife's opinion, this is looking very close to instead he is looking for her leadership. Where this would be great in matters of finance or childrearing or what color drapes to purchase, this is a big red flag for the sexual attraction department!
So in this, be subtle, look for her clues, and important, her REACTIONS to your initiatives.
It is better to SO SOMETHING and find out from her reaction that particular something is not so good, than to be too timid to try anything at all!
But to save time I will post what I have answered to this question last week, and perhaps in detail to be expounded on in this thread if interesting.
***********************
I will beat this drum as often as it needs to be beaten but if at ANY time a woman sex drive is not equal to her mans sex drive or exceeding it, then something is missing in the relationship.
Whatever is missing in the relationship, this piece of the puzzle, this is what this piece of the puzzle is not going to be:
It is never going to be complaining about sex, negotiating for sex, bartering for sex, doing housework for sex, being a nice guy for sex, giving flowers for sex, "being a changed man" for sex.
None of these things are going to work, so whether these things are important to you, they should not be important to you thinking it will lead to sex.
Let me ask, was it about any of these things when you and your woman first met and sex was on fire and incredible?
You don't need to answer because I already know. Of course it wasn't!
To make this simple, to (name deleted) and any other good man reading this that wonders what "the secret is to a woman" or any such thing, it is just this:
A woman is only going to be a sexual to her man as he is making her feel.
Do not make this any more complicated than it needs to be.
The solution, simple.
Stop doing things to make your woman feel like she is not sexually attractive.
Start doing things to make your woman feel like she is sexually attractive.
So what is hard about this? What is hard is that most men I am learning do not notice what makes a woman feel sexually attractive.
These things do not make a woman feel attractive:
Being bribed for sex.
Being desired by a man that is unwilling to stand up for himself.
Being desired by a man she doesn't respect (see above).
Being desired by a man that is unwilling to fight for her.
Being desired by a man that is not desirable to other women.
Being desired by a man that is not desirable to himself.
And these things a woman finds irrestibly attractive:
Being desired by a man that not only knows what he wants, he is willing to pursue what he wants.
Being desired by a man that not only will stand up for himself, but seems to enjoy doing so.
Being desired by a man that commands respect.
Being desired by a man that has demonstrated he willing fight for her (even if the one he is fighting IS her).
Being desired by a man that desirable to other women.
Being desired by a man that is confident and bold and comfortable with himself.
So in all this, if you are a good man not satisfied with the sex life, stop being on the first list, and start being on the second list!
I wish you well.
BigBadWolf,
Man, that is the most profound and useful information I have read from any posting, book, counsellor advice, or anything.
She just wants a HER man to BE A MAN!!! That's totally what she is saying in 'woman code'! If we weren't who we are in the first place, no one on earth would have ever had sex.
[QUOTE=BigBadWolf;181910]
For such a man to ask for his wife's opinion, this is looking very close to instead he is looking for her leadership. Where this would be great in matters of finance or childrearing or what color drapes to purchase, this is a big red flag for the sexual attraction department!
Oh My God. I am supposed to care what color DRAPES to buy?!? Eeeeeh. Happily no one in this house cares if we even HAVE drapes.
Have I mentioned how useless I think these gender stereotypes are?
i agree with BIG BAD WOLF to a point. I don't agree with the "be desired by list...."
Here is my dream list...i wonder how many women can relate to this:
be desired by someone who takes reasonable care of himself and is not significantly overweight (like my husband is)
be desired by someone who absolutely adores me
be desired by someone who is kind to me and others
be desired by someone who is not selfish, a narcissist
be desired by someone who is completely committed to our relationship
be desired by someone who thinks I'm just his type of woman. e.i., I would feel insecure knowing that he just can't get rid of this "thing" he has for long legged blondes and I am a petite asian girl.
be desired by someone who likes doing things together with me because he likes my company
be desired by someone who appreciates my cultural background
be desired by someone who values my opinion and wisdom
be desired by someone who isn't necessarily a saint, but has strong values/ethical standards
be desired by someone who communicates openly about how he feels and communicates fairly when we fight. who is willing to say sorry.
be desired by someone who is financial stable or has potential to be.
be desired by someone who doesn't have addictions, anger issues or serious baggage they have to work through.
i agree with BIG BAD WOLF to a point. I don't agree with the "be desired by list...."
Here is my dream list...i wonder how many women can relate to this:
be desired by someone who takes reasonable care of himself and is not significantly overweight (like my husband is)
be desired by someone who absolutely adores me
be desired by someone who is kind to me and others
be desired by someone who is not selfish, a narcissist
be desired by someone who is completely committed to our relationship
be desired by someone who thinks I'm just his type of woman. e.i., I would feel insecure knowing that he just can't get rid of this "thing" he has for long legged blondes and I am a petite asian girl.
be desired by someone who likes doing things together with me because he likes my company
be desired by someone who appreciates my cultural background
be desired by someone who values my opinion and wisdom
be desired by someone who isn't necessarily a saint, but has strong values/ethical standards
be desired by someone who communicates openly about how he feels and communicates fairly when we fight. who is willing to say sorry.
be desired by someone who is financial stable or has potential to be.
be desired by someone who doesn't have addictions, anger issues or serious baggage they have to work through.
That would be great, except everyone has baggage. It's just a matter of if it's a carry on or a five piece matching set.
For such a man to ask for his wife's opinion, this is looking very close to instead he is looking for her leadership. Where this would be great in matters of finance or childrearing or what color drapes to purchase, this is a big red flag for the sexual attraction department!
Oh My God. I am supposed to care what color DRAPES to buy?!? Eeeeeh. Happily no one in this house cares if we even HAVE drapes.
Have I mentioned how useless I think these gender stereotypes are?
... snip a bunch of stereotypes...
Too funny! You made me look to see if I had drapes.
- Fear of your wife - this is a 10+ - nothing is more of a turnoff for a woman.
- Fear of anything else expressed BEFORE resolution
However - fear that you overcome is a whole different story. If you are afraid of a bad outcome, and keep your fear to yourself while working hard to prevent the bad outcome/get to a good outcome and you SUCCEED, then you can amplify the win in terms of how it impacts HER view of you.
The way to do that is to say "actually I was really afraid that x, y, z would happen so I did a, b, c". Ideally you tell the story in a humorous/entertaining way. This gets you points for courage a very prized male trait.
And "talking about the relationship" is a way of expressing your fear of her, of her not loving/liking you. Of her leaving you. Train wreck. You only discuss the relationship if SHE brings it up and ONLY in response to her comments with one exception. And that exception is if you are conveying what is not acceptable to YOU if she wants the relationship to continue. That is not fear, it is fair warning and done properly will improve the relationship.
HARMFUL: I feel sad, ignored, unloved
HELPFUL: The level of effort you are putting into this marriage is not even close to fair and is not acceptable to me in the long run.
But you better be a good partner or demanding effort will produce a bad outcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejo
Well that's a pretty friggin short list ...
I'll do my best to translate further.
It is virtually a lock that if you start exhibiting self-satisfaction, happiness, confidence, and pride in interests and endeavors outside the scope of your marriage, and reduce the attention you are trying to focus on your wife, she will in turn become curious about what is happening to you.
Somewhere along the line, WE (meaning men) drank the Kool-Aid on the 'talk-it-out' piece. We opened up about our hopes, dreams, and fears.
The last one needs to be stricken from the list. Particularly if your fear revolves around losing your woman.
It is the single synergistic piece that undermines all of the other things you are trying to improve about yourself in order to be more attractive.
As the old adage goes: Deeds, not words.
If you are looking for further insight, you can check out some of the book titles in the following link:
11Likes
what's attractive...my wife's input 
You made me look to see if I had drapes.
