wilderness

I find this hard to believe. Would you care to describe the circumstances surrounding the women that you know that have lost everything?

lostmyreligion

I'm genuinely curious as well.

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2galsmom

There are women marrying and I agree with lisaB, for some marriage is a wonderful tradition and it works out okay.

I think the issue, as illuminated in this thread, is when you find someone with whom the wonderful tradition fails to work out, so the entire gender is blamed and condemned.

Oh where are the women who are acting like real women, the way women are SUPPOSED to behave, oh where or where have the real men gone, where are the men acting like they are supposed to behave? The way Gone with The Wind says they are or, well some other fictional text or one-sided self help book.

Think like that and any relationship is DOOMED.

Well then, all righty, all men must beat up their wives! I have known SEVERAL abusive men so it must be true then.

I love this thread and I have a whole post written on it that I will post in a week or so for my blog.

This issue is expectations, you have a penis, I expect this. You have a vagina I expect this. I am right! I expect noble things and you are wrong as you are not delivering noble things and so on and so on.

Yes, MovingAhead, the people who rush to date and date in volume are often interviewing a mate, they are looking to see what the potential mate can do for them. Why are you dating? Why so many women? Is it for the joy of dating or to see if the woman with you at dinner has what you WANT in a woman and thus what she can do for you? You say you know what you want.

It is the same thing.

I can tell you, that you have tone careful about your expectations. If you don't find the a good person, it is better to have no one until a good person comes along and this all takes a lot of time, patience and letting go of obstinate views on what is right/wrong, in other words what is black and white.

I think everyone needs to re-evaluate what "should" be done in a relationship. Once again, it comes down to finding a person of character and integrity, not easy.

LMAO, I was looking for a Unicorn as well, just watch the Charlie and The Unicorn series on YouTube, no thanks.

They steal kidneys.

wilderness

I don't think you have the issues correct. I believe the issue is that women stand to gain everything from divorce and lose nothing. Whereas men stand to lose everything and gain nothing. Divorce is encouraged by the system.

Broken at 20

Very interesting thread. With posts from bitter members of both sexes. Very eye opening.

I'll also say, I am not going to marry.

Not because I think all women are shallow, or gold diggers. I would like to believe they aren't.
But from what I have observed from the general population of women that I see at work, and school, I believe that most women are generally shallow and wanting to know what I bring to the table. What's my potential, then they decide if I am worth their time.
And I can understand that to some degree. I wouldn't date a girl I am not sexually attracted to, so I can't fault them.

My reason for not marrying is because I have seen it at its worse.
My mother was cheated on, and raked over the coals in the divorce. My dad got off free, she got stuck with the bills.
I also have bastard blood flowing through my veins. Complements of my grandmother, back in a day where marriage was (or I thought it was) considered a sacred institution, and cheating was not condoned.

If that is not reason enough, I look at the statistics. Which I now understand (thank you college stat)
Now, roughly speaking, 50% of marriages fail. That doesn't make me feel to great about the idea. Of those divorces, roughly 75% are initiated by women. Of the married population, 50-60?% of men cheat, and 40-50% of women cheat.
That also doesn't include sexless marriages. Stats show somewhere between 10-20% are sexless.
Plus there is the whole women who cheat and cuckold their husband. That population is believed to be around 1-4%.

So, if we look at those statistics for 10 married couples:
5 of those marriages will end in divorce. And we can infer that at least another 4-5 will have infidelity problems, but that may or may not be discovered. Of those 5 marriages that end in divorce, we can safely assume at least 3 will be initiated by women.
Now, of the 5 that survive, that does not include those that are not happy. And I don't know if the sexless marriage stat took divorces that occurred into their computations, so I can't make any assumptions there. Same with the cheating statistics.
I also don't know any stats on living standards for divorced people, beyond the fact it goes down. And from my pre-law buddies in a few of my classes, they tell me the only people that win in divorce is them.

But from those stats, marriage looks about as safe as a casino.
I have a 50% chance of losing it in a divorce.
And if we take a complete guess, and say 90% of couples that stay married are happy in their marriage, I can safely assume that of the 5 marriages that don't end in divorce, only 4 are happy. Statistically speaking, we can't assume all 5 are happy.

So, if I get married, I am more likely to get divorced than I am to have a happy marriage.

Sure, those aren't the happiest statistics and probably a bad way to look at marriage.
But when my best hope of happiness is roughly 40%, I am not jumping at the idea of marriage.

wilderness

Just as I suspected.

2galsmom

Guess you are right Wilderness, I gained everything, I gained my freedom, my sanity and my life in my divorce. I lost every penny I had, gained his debts where he ran accounts into the red because I could not get my name off of them fast enough legally and now am filing for bankruptcy. I applied for welfare and was denied and the State did NOTHING to help me, hooray, a male victory!

Feel better, probably not right?

I shall overcome this, rebuild my life and be better than before whereas you I guess are powerless over your destiny, and the women have done you in.

If women are so terrible, why lament the system that encourages you to be free of them and why the H@ll are you even considering dating one again?

I check my facts. I checked the divorce rate. What is spewed here is bitterness over the inability to achieve mythical status and anger over life events.

I am a woman, I know hundreds of women, some are great wives, some give more than they take, some have reciprocal relationships with men and other women are not worth one ounce of time and effort, they are toxic.

You see, some men seek the victim chair as readily as some women and nothing positive ever occurs when you stay seated in the victim chair, ever.

Problems when people seek marriage for SECURITY and fear of not having security, again, review the reasons and what you want out of a marriage, you might see your intentions are not as noble as you believe.

wilderness

I am powerless over my financial destiny. The state makes sure of that.

The system does NOT encourage men to be free of women. Actually, the opposite is true. The system violently forces men to be chained to women long after they break their marriage contracts.

I believe this gentleman addresses your accusation better than I ever could: Anger Management |

It doesn't matter how great or how poor women are. Women are a protected class in today's world and they have the full force of the violent state right in their corner.

DarkHoly

I'm sure this will generate much hostility, but this is my two cents.

The women who don't feel the need to respect men lack that respect because they have a system protecting them. Physically, when you are honest about things, there are very, very, very few women who can physically best or even match a standard male. But the fear this discrepancy naturally generates is dispelled because of government, police, electricity and cell phones. This system allows women to best men in an entirely different way- the social experiment. And they certainly do wage their war.

There is however one fatal flaw in this structure; it hinges entirely upon the compliance and support of men. It can't happen unless the vast majority of men support it, which they do. This is a separate and equally perplexing phenomenon, one I don't have the patience for today into which to delve.

I will say this: there is a social hurricane coming. If you don't see that America is imploding you are going to be in for a very rude awakening. When that happens, all the framework for what we call the civilized society, modernism and even feminism itself will vanish. It won't collapse or deteriorate. It will vaporize as if it had never been there because that's how sturdy its pillars are.

Everyone, including women and especially men will immediately realize the fact that governments, laws, and even rights don't exist. They're as real as the breath from which they were conjured. When that happens life will become once more a "might makes right" centric society, much to the dismay and detriment of the fairer sex.

One may think we men would derive a sense of vindication. I don't think we would. We prefer to love and cherish women, not beat them into submission.

Machiavelli

For the last 12 presidential elections, all of those after 1960, the number of female voters has outnumbered the number of male voters. Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Women outnumber men by 5,000,000 in the United States.

AnnieAsh

My mother lost everything in her divorce from my very scary and abusive stepfather. She had the better credit and when he realized she was leaving him (after he held a knife to her throat for the SECOND time) he very spitefully ran up their credit cards and quit his job.

She lost her home, income property, and car. He brought meth and crackheads into their home to scare her. I met one. Lovely gentleman by the name of Ice.

He then played on her deepest fears (someone molesting me) and taunted her by telling her how sexy and desirable I was. He told her that he was going to be my first. He said these things TO ME TOO! I was 20 at the time.

I am very close to my mother and the man BROKE her. I had to check her into the psych ward at the VA.

Took me a very long time to trust men and understand that my stepfather DOES not represent the vast majority of men. I didn't want to marry either until J and I had been together for a long time. He practically dragged my behind to the altar. The morning of my wedding I remember shaking uncontrollably and her hugging me and reminding me J was NOT anything like my stepfather.

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Deejo

The 'Who gets screwed more in the divorce' argument is a red herring. Its a non-platform.

Everybody gets screwed. Nobody gets everything they want. Basically whomever is more on the ball and financially successful is the person that feels the most impact.

I have seen that affect both genders. But claiming that women "win" and "men" lose in divorce is not a hole we need to go down.

Suffice to say that the financial and lifestyle impact from divorce that is foisted on many spouses and at this time, a disproportionate number of men, can leave a mark and create some bitterness.

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wilderness

I disagree emphatically. Where I live, women win custody close to 100% of the time without extenuating circumstances (woman is drug addict, in jail, etc...). Women are also granted restraining orders 100% of the time they request them, where men are granted them 10-20% of the time. If that is an 'affect' it's a criminal affect.

maincourse99

You see if it were a bad marriage and she just wanted out, she would have just gotten out and left. She would have left with the clothes on her back and the kids and never looked back. That is not what happened. She decided that the marriage was over. She cheated and it was my fault and I have to pay. That is the truth of things in her eyes... If the marriage was so bad she would have just wanted to start over. That is not what happened. I was absolutely blind sided by everything that happened.

My exW blindsided me too. Tore me apart with her cheating, left and moved in with OM, who she just kicked out.

But I was lucky. She unilaterally ended it in the worst way possible and felt guilty. Wanted no child support or alimony, or 1/2 of my retirement, let me and D12 stay in the house, and gave me the option of buying her out for a very low price. We have 50/50 custody, but it's been 80/20 me, which is great.

My heart goes out to you and men like you who get shafted by this ridiculous system. It needs to change.

maincourse99

Once again, it comes down to finding a person of character and integrity, not easy.


Bingo.