...but fear I may not be completely ready. This past January I met a terrific man on line, we communicated in writing and by phone for a month. In February we met in person and confirmed that we really liked each other and wanted to continue the relationship. At that time we decided that we would date each other exclusively. Prior to meeting me he had been married for thirty five years, his wife passed away after a long illness and shortly after that he met his neighbor, Susan, who's husband had also recently died. Several months after they meet his job required a transfer to a distant city but they continued the relationship seeing each other once a month for long weekends. According to him she would not commit to any future plans nor would she spend any length of time with him just short weekends. After eighteen months she broke off the relationship. From what he told me he was deeply hurt since he had grown to love her very much and wanted to marry her. Accepting that the relationship was over he decided to try and find someone else so he joined the Internet dating scene met a dozen or so women but no one serious. Then I came along...we are compatible on the major issues, we enjoy the same activities, we have the same goals for the future, we sincerely care for each other and enjoy each others company. He is extremely loving, kind, thoughtful, generous, and understanding. There is not one single aspect of this man I would ever want to change. We do live in separate states but since meeting in January have spent a great deal of time together. He always makes a tremendous effort to do everything possible to show his love for me. He understands and recognizes my old patterns for dealing with insecurities in our relationship and patiently helps me understand myself and ways to deal with them.
Now the purpose of writing...when we met I questioned him repeatedly about his serious relationship with Susan. I wanted to know exactly how he felt about her. Before I could allow myself to fall in love with him I needed to know he was over her completely. I knew there would always be some feelings but importantly I needed to know he no longer wanted to be in contact with her. I was deeply concerned that she would change her mind and want him back. He assured me he was completely over her...he was not....I discovered in April that he had sent her a Internet birthday card in March, she sent a thank you note and he responded with an extremely informative and long letter. Unfortunately, he made it sound like his life had not changed much (possible invite for her to return if she wished) he did mention he had met another "lady" on line but wasn't much interested as he and she both knew long distance affairs are very difficult (possible excuse for their relationship failing not because of a lack of love on her part). He ended with a sincere wish for her to stay in touch ...letters can be very subjective I know. But it did not take much imagination to realize he was still in love with her and I felt like a complete and utter fool.
Is it possible for him to still be in love with her and have serious feelings for me??? By remembering her birthday and writing that he wanted to stay in touch with her was that not betraying me? When I told him I had found his letter (in a way I am truly sorry for...but fear is a mighty force) he acted truly sorry that his actions had hurt me and admitted that while his feelings for her had not died completely, he was totally ready to commit to me. He said he had not given his actions that much thought nor realized the effect his contacting her would have on me. He didn't think it was that big a deal. Is it possible men don't see those situations as seriously as women take them? If he truly loved me why would he want to stay in contact with her? Should I trust what he is telling me now?
Needless to say I was totally lost he had convinced me he was one man who could be completely honest,trustworthy, and faithful It has been three months and it still bothers me....not knowing for sure...I do not want to be made a fool of ever again. He tells me he loves me very much and wants to marry me. I am still agonizing over feelings of being betrayed or worse it could happen again. I do love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. But do not know how to get over this terrible fear. My heart says I am being stupid he has not given me any further cause to doubt him. I want to trust him completely...yet my instincts or "old baggage" continually warn me not to be stupid. What do I do? Do I bring up the old wounds I know he does ever thing possible to reassure me daily. These are my problems and I have to learn how to deal with them...I just don't know how to trust my own judgment. I do hope you can help I want the second time around to be a success.
He holds a flame for the former girlfriend and you have rejection issues and maybe a similar holding onto the past. Why only separated, not divorced after 7 years?
You only have dated since January, you barely know one another.
Keep dating him, but definitely have your radar up and get that divorce.
First, you shouldn't see it as men don't see it the same way as women. It's more of a personality issue than a gender one. Some people have no problem with their SO's remaining friends with ex's, other people just assume their SO will never speak to an ex again and throw out anything associated with them. I remember when a old long time bf called my wife once while we were engaged. I flipped out while my wife didn't think anything of it.
My gut tells me that he is being completely honest and open with you. The man admitted to you the feelings aren't completely gone, which is not only being forthright with you, but normal. If he loved her like he claims and it ended because she was the one to leave him, then it is should take quite a bit of time to completely let go of all those old emotions, even when he is in a committed relationship. It doesn't mean he still really loves her or that he would drop you for her if she asked him to. He maintained a friendship with her and it sounds like it just didn't occur to him that you might think as strongly as you do about something like that. I would not see it as betrayal at all.
He did not try to deny he had been in communication with her and he admitted the feelings were not all gone. These are not the actions of a man trying to hide things from you. He just didn't think. It was kind of stupid on his part, but not a betrayal. My question would then be: have you tried just calmly telling him that your expectations as a possible life time partner is that he not maintain friendship with a woman that he was in love with?
I would also look deep in yourself and ask, why? Not why you feel this way, because many would to some degree, but why you feel this way so strongly that even after him being upfront and honest with you, several months later you still can't get past it.
I disagree with michzz in that I don't think he "holds a flame" per say for an ex, just that there hasn't been enough time for him to get fully past it yet. Also, it is possible to be totally in love with and committed to someone while you're still moving past someone else. The man has already done it once. Do you think he will ever stop loving his wife that passed away? He never will, but that didn't stop him from falling in love with Susan, and it hasn't stopped him from falling in love with you. Love is not some piece of pie that has a finite number of pieces. You can't expect you get 100% of the pie. Love is more like a endless well. You can keep pouring more and more into it. Part of him will always love his ex wife, maybe even a small portion of him will never quite get over Susan, I don't know, but his love from you can grow and grow and keep filling up that endless well growing stronger and stronger until it dwarfs all else.
Michzz is dead on though in that you are not ready for marriage yet. In fact it sounds like he is using marriage to "prove" the depth of his love for you and as an attempt to make sure you don't get away, perhaps even because he fears you will leave him like Susan did. Those are things you need to sit down with him and talk about. Before either of you seriously consider marriage, you both need to explore a few things. He needs to explore exactly what it is he still feels for Susan and why he is still in contact with her. You need to explore why you don't trust him when he sounds pretty forthright about his contact with her. And then there is still two more things that need to happen. A) He needs to be comfortable with and supportive of your need to separate himself from that old relationship. And B) You need to get a divorce. Obviously there are reasons you haven't gone into, but after all these years of separation and still no divorce? Why?
Just remember marriage is not a tool to keep to people together when there is a threat the relationship might end. It's not glue. Once you are both confident and sure of exactly where each of you stand and are excited about your future together in its entirety, than marriage is the reward for that strong relationship.
i remember a childhood sweethart bday and we were only together a month and i ws 13.
i remembered it, because of the fondness i had for him and he ws generally nice.
even now i still have that fondness for him, and mine is not a love.
so as far as your hubby is.
there is a strong possiblility of him stil in love with her.
you have only been together a few months. you dont really know him and u live away from eachother.
i dont think this is marriage material .
in order to move on in his life, he has to totally disconnect from her.
but he hasnt and he doesnt seem like he wil to soon either.
men usually use avoidance methods as to what kind of harm they do their partners or wives. i,e whats the big deal .i believe that its just the selfishness that a man has and the regards he has for his actions. well it is a big deal, because you dont do those actions against him, because you have respect for him. you also have morals that are instilled within you. alot of men dont.
I believe this statement is not gender-specific. There are lots of women that it applies to just as much as there are men.
What applies, is the assessment that this guy may be as you describe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justean
men usually use avoidance methods as to what kind of harm they do their partners or wives. i,e whats the big deal .i believe that its just the selfishness that a man has and the regards he has for his actions. well it is a big deal, because you dont do those actions against him, because you have respect for him. you also have morals that are instilled within you. alot of men dont.
i agree, but that is why i said lots. i did not say all men.
of course this can apply to women.
i am simply refering my reply to a personal matter.
alot of statements are not gender specific.
if this thread was an open general topic, then my response would have been different.
dont judge a book by its cover.
First, I would like to thank everyone for their input…I especially appreciate feedback from the male’s perspective. Michzz you were right on the mark about my rejection issues and no divorce. Two issues I am diligently working on. As for the divorce it’s not so easy…it’s not just about two people, there are children, grandchildren, extended families, friends, all with a vested interested in the marriage. A marriage I held together for the welfare of everyone except myself. Like most folks in my age group the story is long. And if I could blame one particular shortcoming in the marriage it would be lack of “communication”. I spent years reading self help books and talking over my problems with others ad nauseum to no avail. The problem the spouse and I were on the “same train” just “lived” in separate compartments. And there really is no such thing as starting over you simply take your own set of hang ups in a new laundry bag to a different location and try to find enough common ground to live harmoniously with another human being.
BlueCreek, your response was exceptionally perceptive and insightful. Your response (which I have reread numerous times) was extremely beneficial. I am very fortunate to have met an individual with the capacity to refill the well (your analogy about “pie” was brilliant) talk about being “hit upside the head” as for the betrayal issues that stems from years of conditioning with spouse. And the truth after so many years of marriage to someone who refused to “communicate” I don’t know the first thing about men, how they think, about their “needs” or what makes them truly happy in a relationship. But I can promise you this I intend to learn, I have been given a second chance with a very kind loving man and with his help, this site, advice from intelligent guys like yourself, and any other source I fully intend learn. My second goal is to work towards making our lives together one “romping” great time for us both. Again, thank you for setting me straight!!!
I'm glad we were able to provide you with a little bit of comfort and some direction on how to move forward. There are two more things I'd like to quickly mention in response to your last post.
First, I just assumed that when you said you were separated, that the two of you haven't lived together for years. Which means I expected that pretty much everyone in your family would know. So without knowing the entire situation, there's not too much to comment on. However, I will say this. Anyone in your family (on either side) that loves you only wants ONE thing, they are "invested" in ONE thing, and that's not your marriage, it's your happiness. Yes, some may try to pressure you to use divorce as a last resort, but it's still them wanting both of you to be happy, they're just trying to do in a way that keeps you happy together. But if you and your husband are both honest with them and tell them that what you both need for happiness requires you be divorced so you can find partners that fulfill your needs, most will back you up. I say this not to tell you what you need to do or how, you have already stated that you are working on a resolution to your marriage, I just mean to provide a little extra encouragement that while many people feel they owe it to their family to stay married, often the family is far more supportive than they imagine and the negative impact can either be minimized or turned into a positive one depending on how you handle it.
Second, don't think of the communication so much as trying to find out what men need, but about what your man needs. Mars/Venus is all well and good for certain generalities, but the truth is that men can vary every bit as much as women in their needs, and what applies for one man does not necessarily apply for another. So while reading books and articles on what men want can at least give you ideas, use it as follow-up research, not lead-in research. What I mean by that is talk to him first. Yay, we're back to "communicate" again, which you already know! Ask him flat out everything about his likes and expectations: emotionally, physically, long term/life goals, whatever. After you do that, then you can do some research and reading about "what men want," and as your reading if you say, "yeah, he said something like that," you can then get additional ideas from the articles that fit with what you already know. There is one exception I'd make to this. Since you have little experience in being part of a communicating relationship and are gung ho on learning how to openly communicate with this man, there is one specific book I would highly recommend you read sooner than later, The Five Love Languages. It's been mentioned now and then in this forum, and for good reason. It's all about learning how each individual (not man or woman) varies in how they need love to be communicated and how to meet those needs. The author does pigeon hole people a bit too much into just one language, when in reality people have needs that spill over into other zones beyond their primary, but it is still a very good book for self discovery of what is of most importance to each other. I highly recommend it.
Oh, and by all means, make sure you share your needs and expectations with him. Never make a man guess or assume he knows what you want, the generality that we (i.e. men) take to hints poorly is unfortunately one of those that is usually accurate. You need him to make you happy every bit as much as he needs it from you, so give him all the tools to do that.
Ok, that's about it. Good luck!
PS> Ok, after a quick read of your original post there was one other thing I didn't catch the first time that might help you understand and forgive his communication with Susan. It already sounds like you're pretty ok with what happened now, but it never hurts to have a little further understanding. You said that he and Susan both lost their spouses about the same time. It stands to reason that his friendship with her was not only important for the "relationship" angle, but when people have spouses that pass away they feel that no one they know understands what they are going through unless they've also lost a spouse. It is incredibly important for people grieving to do so with others that truly know what they are going through, and if they do find someone going through the same thing, that creates a pretty strong bond of friendship. Even if their romantic relationship is completely over, they helped each other through a very emotionally trying time, so expect there to be residual friendship just based on that alone. Be honest with him and let him know if you expect him to eventually completely distance himself, that is understandable, but be patient with him as well.
Starting anew after forty year marriage
