tryingtounderstand

I am new to this site so I will give a little back ground info first. I am in a 6 year relationship with a woman. We live together and are both in our mid 30’s. She is the only woman I have been in love with. We were friend about 6 months before we started dating. No kids. I work as a full time bartender and average about 55 hours per week. My normal day starts at 3 or 4 pm and ends at 3 or 4 am. She has her own business but doesn’t take many clients. She also works a part time job from time to time. In the 6 years we have been together I have made more money each year than she has made in the entire time we have been together. I am not complaining about that, I don’t mind a man financially providing for his partner, just wanted to put that out because of the questions I am going to ask.

We are both unhappy. But we both want to see what life would be like with each other when we are not so stressed out, so we keep trying. Here are my questions. She pays the bills, but I will pay them from time to time. We work on them together so we both know what is going on with the finances. She will clean the house and wash the close most of the time. We run errands together even if both of us are not needed. Here is what really irritates me and this is why I am asking. Although she does these things most of the time, I will help when I am here. If I am home we clean together, if she cooks, which I have never ask her to do, then I will be in the kitchen with her helping or cleaning up. On the flip side I almost never cook, except for breakfast. But I do initiate cleaning sometime because we do it on a certain day and want to start as soon as possible if we can. Not once in the 6 years that we have been together have I sat and watched her clean the house, or cook. She always tells me how little I do around the house, and how I don’t take care of the bills. She also get irritated with me that I do not do projects around the house that a man should do or I don’t do them fast enough and always compares me to her stepdad or past relationships and how different I am from them. I am just wondering if I am being unreasonable about getting upset that she is always complaining about how little I do around the house or if she is expecting too much. Please give me any advice or ask any questions you may have. Thanks.

tobio

I think what is key here is you bringing up the subject of earnings. I am assuming that although she doesn't take many clients, she considers herself to work full-time, taking part-time work when things are quiet?

I think this might be helpful to lay out. Personally, and I would assume for a lot of couples, the balance is worked out through what hours are worked. For example, a couple both working full-time would typically split the housework through mutual agreement. In a couple where one works, one stays at home and/or works part-time, the balance of taking care of the home would fall to the one who is at home more, ie the latter partner in this example. For me personally, I wouldn't assume that in a couple where one earns less, that the lesser-earning partner would automatically have responsibility for the housework.

Have you asked her about the dynamic in your relationship and how she sees things should be split? What is it specifically she is looking for you to do in terms of housework? If she takes care of the bills, what are you paying for?

Blanca

Is there any romance in your relationship? just wondering because i know i start picking at my H about the chores when i dont feel loved.

it also sounds like you dont think you should do the chores since you make the money. is that correct?

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Catherine602

You mentioned that you are both unhappy, do you care to share the details. I understand the fact that you feel she is not giving you credit for what you do around that house. Do you ask what exactly what she wants you to do that you are not doing relative to chores. She is also comparing you to others in her life, do you discuss with her what a big mistake this is? Perhaps start a discussion about how she would feel if you did the same to help her understand how unfair this is.

Few questions more, do you love each other, and do you both want to have a family?

Atholk

All this is basic **** testing. If you make essentially six times as much as she does and considering you work 55 hours a week, you probably do more worktime + choretime than she does. So her complaints aren't any thing to do with actual chores.

Her basic real complaint is probably something like... Wwwwwwaaaaaahhhhhh!!!! WHY WON'T YOU MARRY ME?!?!? Or "I want a baby", or "I want to be a stay at home mom".

I would bump back on this one and say you don't work your ass off to support you both to come home to treatment like this.


This the only reason you're unhappy?

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major misfit

Well, she's not partnered with her dad and if her past relationships were so good then why isn't she still in one of them? Gonna have to have a little more detail on what it is exactly that you're unhappy about. I can make assumptions based on what you posted, but I'd rather not. I will say that I feel as though you feel unappreciated for what you do.

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lime

I think you both need to sit down and talk with each other about the division of chores. Chores really shouldn't be an issue in marriage; they're most likely the sign there's a bigger problem.

greenpearl

Let's not talk about money.

You work 55 hours a week, how many hours does she work? You mentioned that she has a part-time job, but how many hours does she work?

If she is working half of your hours, she really shouldn't complain about what you are not doing.

But for some women, no matter how good you are, they can still find ways to complain about their men, if she doesn't complain, consider yourself lucky!!!

Catherine602

You'er frustrated and no doubt angry if you feel she is being unfair. However, I wouldn't take the advice to step it up a notch by throwing her concerns in her face or ridiculing them. It's hitting below the belt, and the tactics of a child not a man.

You probably know what the real problem is with her, and if you care about her, talk about it sympathetically. If she is concerned about her biologic clock, or marriage there is no reason to be unkind about it. It is a natural concern for women, men who are contemptuous of women because of these concerns have their own problems and insecurities. It's hard to hide contempt so their relationships may look good on the surface but no deeper. If you want a truly happy relationship don't hold her concerns in contempt or as unimportant.

Deejo

If you have already been walking around on eggshells, looking for new ways to kiss her a$$ will achieve nothing.

You needn't throw her concerns in her face, but you certainly shouldn't be giving them a priority over yours until you have had that adult conversation about what you each want, and how you perceive your roles.

Has nothing to do with being a child. She's the one that isn't verbalizing what she actually wants and needs, nor does she seem invested in being a 'partner', so she instead calls you out on task performance.

Yes, you should start simply being 'unavailable' when she is doing work around the house or cooking. Her 'need' to have you present is her way of validating that she contributes - but, she really isn't contributing if she needs to drag you into everything.

Sounds like she has a good bit of entitlement going on and wants to be taken care of. Marriage only makes that mindset worse.

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sisters359

How much money you make or hours you work has nothing to do with it, unless of course you feel you are paying for her domestic and sexual services. The fact that you bring it up suggests that you see $$$ as part of the "bargain." You might be better off hiring a housekeeper, cook, and prostitute then. A lot less hassle.

Many men still think, "I'll earn money so you should meet my sexual and domestic needs." That isn't a partnership; that's an employment arrangement. In marriage, it is a bit different (although a lot of men still fail to see this even though laws make it pretty clear), because the earnings are shared--it isn't "your money," it is the family's money. Her share of domestic services make it possible for the FAMILY to save, have a nicer lifestyle, etc. (Again, think about the cost of paying for those services--yes, you could do without, but do you want to live like a pig or do it all yourself?) A wife's domestic support makes it possible for the FAMILY to have and raise children, and for a man to experience parenting--just as a man's earnings make it possible for the FAMILY to do all those things, too. That is more like a true partnership--(and because it is a joint effort, families run better when the joint effort continues after dad comes home, rather than assuming he did "his" job, and leaving all the rest of the day's work to her after she has already put in a solitary 8-to-10 hour day while he was gone. . .)

What do you take responsibility for around the household? How do things get done if she isn't taking responsibility for them? If a pipe is leaking, do you call the plumber, make the arrangements to meet him, see it through? Or do you just pay for it and leave all the rest of the responsibility to her?

How much mess do you make that you expect her to clean up? Are you adding to the work load rather than cleaing-up-after-yourself as you go (towels, clothes, toilet, etc. Moms clean up after their kids. It's not attractive to have to clean up after a mate.)

Now, you may work more hours because you LIKE your work, and you LIKE making the money. Imagine if you had to spend that time doing something boring and thankless that you DON'T like and you didn't get paid for it. Bottom line: Money does not compensate for the dull, routine, thankless, mind-numbing tasks that household work is.

Discuss options with her--should you cut back, earn less, and be more of a true partner around the household? Maybe you should just pay for a housekeeper, prepared meals/a cook, etc. Less of your discretionary spending will be available after that, but at least you won't see her as a servant.

If YOU resent the fact that she does not earn enough to pay-her-own-way for fun stuff you want to do, then find a partner whose income equals yours, or allows for this, at least. Or forego companionship and do those things yourself--one ticket is cheaper than two. But don't buy her ticket and then expect sexual and domestic services in return. You buy her ticket only b/c you love her and want her as your companion in the adventure. If you want someone else's companionship (a good buddy, your brother, whomever) and they couldn't afford it, you'd buy theirs w/o expecting anything in return, right?

A family works and plays together. There is no "his work day" and "her work day," b/c a family cannot run like that. Each adult shares full responsibility for making sure the family life runs smoothly. "He" doesn't earn more money than "her," because it is the family unit that makes it all possible. Therefore, he doesn't expect her to keep working after his day is done, and he doesn't "help" while expecting her to be responsible for chores (cooking, cleaning, caring for kids, etc.), because these are chores for the FAMILY.

But right now, you aren't a family--not legally, anyway. So you really need to talk through this stuff and work it out. If she was comfortable exchanging sexual and domestic services while you pay for "stuff," that's her business. But she wouldn't be snippy if that was the case, would she?

And be honest with yourself and her. If you really are just paying for her domestic and sexual services, you aren't paying enough (again, she wouldn't be snippy if you were).

Deejo

This is excellent advice. There's a business model in there.

If there are imbalances within the dynamic of the relationship - money is going to be dragged into it. Period. But the issue themselves are rarely about money.

Every relationship has a 'value' quotient. For as long as both partners feel fulfilled and happy - value really doesn't enter the picture.

But if one, or both sides are not having their needs met, invariably you start taking stock in what value you believe you add to the relationship, versus what value they add.

If I had to make the general call on this one, she is sizing you up as husband material and doesn't like what she sees, probably more a result of the schedule and time that your job demands - which is manifesting as complaining about your domesticity value.

What else is or isn't happening that's affecting the relationship?

But

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"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

tryingtounderstand

First off thanks for all the input. Why are we unhappy? I think she is unhappy that I am not assertive enough for her and do not take charge the way she feels a man should, she has to be the boss in her business and doesn’t want to do it at home. I am passive and laid back and she hates that. We don’t have a lot of romance and has a lot to do with me, but some with her. I am not good at taking “constructive criticism” and she is very good at giving it. I feel that is one the ways she conveys her love to people by trying to make them a better person. I take it as criticism and as an insult and I am resistant to make the change she is looking for even if it may be a good thing. So she has been trying to enhance me for 6 years and I have been resistant to it and it has made us both a little bitter, and makes me want to be with her less, even romantically. On the other side of the romance side she is very passive in bed and I am more adventurous, sex although good, is quite boring to me. But before anyone thinks anything I would rather please myself forever than cheat on her, I couldn’t hurt her like that. When we travel together, which isn’t often, we always have a good time.

My work schedule is also a big issue. As I said I may not get to sleep till 4am or later some nights, she will be up by 8 am. She will say I need to get more sleep but if I sleep past 10am for more than a day or 2 I will hear about it sometime in some way. I am also in school 2 days per week and will be up by 8:30 for that. She also feels that I worry about things that only affect me. School being one and work being the other, which again goes back to not doing enough around the house.

On the hours issue. She has put in about 140 hours this year at her part time job and has taken 2 clients. I helped out with both of those clients, one a lot more than the other. I have worked about 2600 hours this year and every year since we have been together.

As for the chores. I do not mind doing them. My beef is that she does them without me while I am working and then throws it in my face that I don’t help enough around the house. She has also stated that I am the cleanest person she has ever lived with. I said that she pays the bills but I should have been clear that she physically pays them, writes the check, online pay. The money comes out of our joint account.

As for the money. We come from totally different back grounds. She grew up in a household with a $150k income. The most money my parents ever made was maybe 30k at the most. She likes to buy things for the house and make it better. I don’t see the “need” for it and if I am with her when she wants it I will hold my tongue because I know it will only start a fight if I say something. She is very good at arguing and I hate it with a passion. We are always stressed about money and she always complains about not having enough, which makes me feel bad because I should be earning more. Which also keeps me from buying or doing anything I want because I just don’t feel we have enough extra to do things that aren’t really needed.

Family and kids. We both want a family. Her more than me right now. I know it will never be the right time to have kids but it seems that we can barely make it the way things are right now and a child isn’t cheap. I know her clock is ticking and it will be harder and unhealthier for her to have kids the older she gets. She feels I don’t care because I can have kids till I am an old man. This is another source of stress.

“Unless of course you feel you are paying for her domestic and sexual services”

No sex, and domestically I have never asked her to cook or clean anything. We clean on Saturday and as soon as I get up I will start that if she hasn’t and if we don’t run some errands together we will finish before I go to work.

“Now, you may work more hours because you LIKE your work”

I hate my job and have for 6 years. It would be very hard for me to leave the position I am it at the moment. Any promotion I might take at work will be a step down in pay. I make more money than all but 1 of my managers. To try to take another job outside my current employer might be risky also. I have good benefits that include having her on my health insurance plan. That is the reason I am taking classes, to put myself in a position to make a positive move.

I know I put alot into this one and it wasn't very organized. I was just writing. Again thank for the input.

Atholk

I get exactly this thought thrown in my face by some bloggers I know who are against marriage on principle that it exploits men for their labor.

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The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 is available to buy! Love, Sex, Nice Guys, Alpha, Beta, Dealing With Cheating, Oneitis, Sexless Marriages, Sex Rank, Body Agenda, Sexy Moves, Seduction Skills and more! 344 pages of high quality practical information. The MMSL Primer Book

BigBadWolf

This is good to understand.

What can you do to express YOUR own leadership and vision and goal setting as the man in the relationship?

It doesn't have to be a lot of hard work, but it does need to be expressed some how and some way.


So, you are saying she is behaving like a woman?

Do not confuse her criticism and critiquing and "making people better" from old fashion "fitness testing".

Believe me, if you had fallen for the "enhancement", she would probably have left you long ago. Don't make the mistake to fall for it now.

Excellent.

Opportunity to be "assertive". Tell her your requirements for sleep, and that you do not expect to "hear about it". She is not your mother.

Stand up for yourself in this area as well. Emphasive the future benefits of the school.

Do not mistake some "fitness test" about housework for what could be a mask of her own insecurities, or resentment that she is not pursuing some goal of her own.

Address the real issue (whatever it may be), otherwise, no mountains out of this molehill (housework).

Use humor to communicate this to her from time to time. Do not beat her over the head with these facts, but do not be afraid to stand for your own work hours or humorously remind her of her own light schedule.

Humor, don't miss it.

I consider this chore talk a fitness test.

Personally, I would tell her a way for her to improve her performance would be for her to do her chores naked, and then I would go about by business.

Opportunity to be assertive in relationship.

Set up a simple budget and stick to it.

Also, learn to say "no" to spending.

Big mistake.

NEVER hold your tongue to avoid conflict with a woman. That will kill a relationship over time.

It kills her respect for you.

It kills your respect for yourself.

Even if you must use humor to make a point, or a stern look or mention that "we will discuss this later", then do it later.

A man that only avoiding conflict with a woman will lead to a miserable man and miserable woman.

To be a happy man with a woman, learn to get good at conflict. Be a master of it.

Your woman, she wants to see this side of you. She is not arguing becuase she likes to nag, she wants to see the mettle of the man she loves.

And conflict, it doesn't have to be mean. Opposite, it should never involve you losing your cool or being angry.

Calm, confident, humorous, but always being ready to stand for yourself and speak your mind and express your own leadership and desires.

Get good at it, be a master of it, and learn to ENJOY standing for yourself.

A woman, she is loving the presence of this kind of man.

And this kind of man, he is enjoying himself and happy with his woman.

Solution, earn more, or spend less.

Doing both, that is even better.

This could be a "deal breaker" for sure.

But work on the relationship is most important to having children. Regardless, you need to be honest with yourself and with her before bringing child into strained relatinship.

All this other regarding sex and money, I will not comment.

I wish you well.

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