General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
I am not going to work on me unless s/he is going to work on him.her too. I don't understand this thinking. Is there some reason to fear working harder/being smarter if the end goal is
1. a happier marriage
2. moving toward one's own best interest anyway?
I don't get it. At the end of the day, why wouldn't you (and you are the only one you can make action choices for) do every and anything to save the marriage? Or even barring that, do something that is in your own best interest regardless of the impact on the marriage? Or do people just not realize what a nightmare divorce is? Until it is too late?
It's the little boy, or little girl talking, maybe? I'm all for just working on me. Making me the best will also make me the best husband, I'm hoping. Plus, I've noticed that working on me has elicited a response from my wife in that she's changing for the better now also, even if doesn't notice it herself or is even conscious of it! Posted via Mobile Device
I am not going to work on me unless s/he is going to work on him.her too. I don't understand this thinking. Is there some reason to fear working harder/being smarter if the end goal is
1. a happier marriage
2. moving toward one's own best interest anyway?
I don't get it. At the end of the day, why wouldn't you (and you are the only one you can make action choices for) do every and anything to save the marriage? Or even barring that, do something that is in your own best interest regardless of the impact on the marriage? Or do people just not realize what a nightmare divorce is? Until it is too late?
I don't get the thinking.
S
This is clearly connected to what I just posted.
You challenge this way of thinking, and I appreciate that challenge.
But in my case, that's all it is--a thought or a feeling. I put it out there because I'm being honest. Maybe I do need the fear allayed--by myself, by others who've been through it. Maybe I need it challenged, like you do right here.
In my case, my "I won't work unless he does too" does not mean I *refuse* to do any of the work that I need to do. It just means that as a person in intimate, vulnerable relationship with another person, it is natural to want to see reciprocity of concern, effort, care, love, and the willingness to self-heal. It is natural to fear being left high and dry after expending so much energy to heal and bring healing to the relationship.
It comes out of fear, maybe comes out of pride, but I'm not going to pretend I don't feel it somewhere in there.
It's the little boy, or little girl talking, maybe? I'm all for just working on me. Making me the best will also make me the best husband, I'm hoping. Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, I do think it's a little boy or girl inside, getting scared and stubborn and looking for a return on an investment.
I find myself failing when I look for the "return" too quickly, on my timeline, instead of being patient and open to when my husband CAN meet some need I have, if he can.
I'm also all for working on me.
vt...I never said I "refuse" to work on myself unless he works on himself.
I said we stand a better chance of improving our marriage if we BOTH work on ourselves and our own issues.
Whether he does or not, I still am going to do my own work.
I already am. Just because I keep falling, doesn't mean I'm giving up. Every time I fall, I learn something and hopefully it helps in the future.
Yes, I do think it's a little boy or girl inside, getting scared and stubborn and looking for a return on an investment.
How do you STAY here week after week? I mean if you can SEE that this is the case, how can you not call on your grown up to change it?
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vt...I never said I "refuse" to work on myself unless he works on himself.
The point that is regularly missed is that it isn't even all that laudible or worthwhile to work on you JUST for the sake of the marriage. It is also for YOU with or without a marriage or within any future relationship.
I cannot for the life of me see why it would be challenging to learn to give. One of our first preschool lessons is that giving is best done selflessly. So long as giving requires tit-for-tat reciprocity, you aren't really giving at all. You are giving to get.
This is mentally unhealthy and leads to backasward dynamics. You can't even then have enough clarity of thought to decide if the person you are with is ever going to be capable of meeting your needs. Then, if what you fear is the case, then you can look at yourslef, pat yourself on the back for having learned something and grown stronger and go about your life.
Instead now you are torturing yourself to death with this stupid pattern that you really don't want to break free of more than you want to scales of effort to be equal. Well you have your answer. They aren't going to be because *he just doesn't see the issues the way you do, and you continue to insist that your version of the issues is the RIGHT one.*
I am not even saying that in your case your marriage is savable or even should be saved. IIRC you have been married a very short time. You probably ought to cut bait. But you are left in the same place with the next relationship, inclined to measure effort, get into right fights when no perspective is objectively right... If you fail to learn from THIS one, you are bound to repeat it.
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I said we stand a better chance of improving our marriage if we BOTH work on ourselves and our own issues.
Right. But you don't get to choose his action path. You only get to choose yours. Work on you for you, and then see if that also helps your marriage.
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Whether he does or not, I still am going to do my own work.
I already am. Just because I keep falling, doesn't mean I'm giving up. Every time I fall, I learn something and hopefully it helps in the future.
Yah. Sometimes my little boy comes out when I least expect it. I'm getting much better at realizing it when he does, though. Progress...progress...progress. Posted via Mobile Device
Marriage is 50/50 so why should one feel like she/he has to carry the whole load. When ones spouse doesn't want to work on problems, it feels like that person doesn't value you.
I may have an issue, but if my H isn't there to lend support, at least give a thumbs up, then it becomes our issue since we are together.
I'm all for working on self. I think one should work on self always. There's always room for a better you. You build your own self worth. You empower yourself.
The marriage will either get stronger or disband. Either way you will find yourself better equipped to handle it.
I don't give BECAUSE I hope to receive in return.
It's NOT "challenging to learn to give."
It's challenging to feel that you are giving and giving, and not receiving in return.
Would my H disagree that I'm not receiving? SURE!
Is he entitled to that opinion? ABSOLUTELY!
Is he "right" too? YES.
I'm not "working on me JUST for the sake of the marriage," and I'm not looking for lauds.
I AM "working on me for me."
If it helps my marriage, wonderful. If it turns out I should bail, hopefully I'll be a stronger person when I need to.
You ask how is it that I "SEE that this is the issue and not call on my grown up to change it"?
I am working on that.
I guess the noisy little kid wins sometimes.
Yes, I want the grown up to put on her big girl panties and take charge. Clearly "wanting" that hasn't been enough so far.
It is not true that I "don't want to break free" from the stupid pattern. I know I want that. It's why we're in MC, why I post here looking for advice, why I'm considering individual therapy. Clearly I "want" to change things.
You're right, he "doesn't see the issues the way I do."
But I'm not "insisting that my version is right." If I was, we wouldn't be asking a MC for HIS perspective and HIS version of the issues.
And I never said I would try and choose my H's action path.
What I said was, I hope he wants to continue.
Marriage is 50/50 so why should one feel like she/he has to carry the whole load.
I guess you have a choice. You can worry about weights and measures. Or you can SOLVE THE PROBLEM. It is a FACT that you cannot make someone
- change
- agree with your point of view when they see it differently.
In my years of hanging on boards such as this, I have seen 100,000 right fights. When a dynamic needs to be changed, someone needs to take the leadership role to change it. By having the mindset that you "shouldn't have to" simply does not work. Want to be right? And ineffective? Then you are heading towards years of unhappy marriage or divorce.
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When ones spouse doesn't want to work on problems, it feels like that person doesn't value you.
Taking into account that I was there, and I know of what I speak (and of what you speak btw), that is emotional mumbo jumbo. The truth of the matter is that these people we aren't hearing from are doing exactly what they think is right for the marriage *from their own points of view*.
It is not someone else's job to value us. It is OUR job to value us. It is an unfair expectation, probably born of romantic media nonsense, that someone else is going to complete us, *make* us happy. You need to COME to the marriage happy.
I agree with you about working on yourself. I have seen such a huge improvement in myself in 6 weeks. Even my friends and my children have seen it. The only one that I want to see it doesn't see it or he does and doesn't care cause he has this bad image of me and doesn't seem to think that I can change.
Keep in mind he was seeing it and I pulled a dumb move that put me back some steps. I just get really frustrated that I try and try and get nothing back.
Right now I'm having a really hard time being lonely, I go to bed and hope that he will come climb in bed with me and hold me . And again I wake up alone.
I hope that one day sitting on the couch he will pull me near to cuddle and again I get let down! That is my biggest issue right now , I show him over and over and over that I love him. I guess in all reality he just doesn't love me anymore and I need to realize that!
I guess you have a choice. You can worry about weights and measures. Or you can SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
The first several years aren't too bad. But after the initial newness has worn away. You find hours or days even when you start questioning the point of bothering with the effort. Then you put your head down and continue trying. Frustration is to be expected in some cases.
"It is not someone else's job to value us. It is OUR job to value us. It is an unfair expectation, probably born of romantic media nonsense, that someone else is going to complete us, *make* us happy. You need to COME to the marriage happy."
This is the best thing I could ever read. My wife and I both were looking to the other to make us happy. Now, I am making myself happy. She is working through her issues.
The first several years aren't too bad. But after the initial newness has worn away. You find hours or days even when you start questioning the point of bothering with the effort. Then you put your head down and continue trying. Frustration is to be expected in some cases.
See we had the opposite problem. Yes we had a new period that allowed us to get married in the first place. But it was not too long before lack of marriage skills started derailing us.
Common thought I have seen 
