General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
So I read in another thread just now someone saying what most of us know and accept - women (generalising) don't understand male sexuality (generalising).
I took this to mean the disparity between women needing emotional security & closeness in order to express physical love through sex, and men needing to have demonstrated and be able to demonstrate physical love in order to feel reassured there is emotional closeness.
So please, men, give us a clue how to get round this apparent mismatch when conflict gets in the way
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
There is giving and there is getting.
When a marriage is thriving both are giving what the other needs and both are getting from the other what they need. When the marriage is not thriving, and neither party is giving and neither party is getting, what can be done? The main solution is ONE PERSON decides to go into a giving mode without the promise of getting. Immediate and short term gratification is sacrificed for the good of the long term future. By being the selfless giver for a short period of time (3 months for example) the other party notices and becomes happier in the relationship. That is when the "giver" starts vocalizing that they have needs that need to be met too. The person who has been "getting" for 3 months recognizes that they are happier and therefore become more motivated to give.
What if a wife has a need for domestic support while a husband has a need for sex? Well most men are not "horny for cleaning"... But a good husband will find the motivation to meet his wife's needs even when he does not want to. So why can't the wife flip this around and be sexual when she is not "horny for sex?". In fact it's even more ludicrous that a wife cannot muster the energy for sex given that it is a pleasurable act, whereas domestic support is not a pleasurable act. So, if a wife is interested in the long term good of her marriage, and her life, and her happiness, she should easily find the motivation to engage with her husband in an act that is pleasurable to her, and demonstrates love to him.
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
basically women need love to have sex, men need sex to have love.
if both parties are supplying what the other needs, there's nothing to "get around"
i agree with hicks that when one isn't giving, the other does more however that can only last for a while before resentment builds. then its marriage counselor time.
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
I know for myself if my needs haven't been met for a long time despite being clear about that, even though sex can be pleasurable, opening myself up for that is difficult when the resentments of my own unmet needs get in the way. I have in the past tried giving more despite not wanting to in the hopes that he would make a better effort to try meeting my own needs, but sadly, in his case, he ends up wanting more and more without looking at my own needs any differently. Sure, he has a big smile on his face, but without the effort to look at my own needs I end up feeling used and even more resentful.
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle27
I know for myself if my needs haven't been met for a long time despite being clear about that, even though sex can be pleasurable, opening myself up for that is difficult when the resentments of my own unmet needs get in the way. I have in the past tried giving more despite not wanting to in the hopes that he would make a better effort to try meeting my own needs, but sadly, in his case, he ends up wanting more and more without looking at my own needs any differently. Sure, he has a big smile on his face, but without the effort to look at my own needs I end up feeling used and even more resentful.
That's just so well put
I do however see Hicks' analogy of cleaning & sex - would never have thought of it that way but it's clear enough
However it does bring us back to the reason behind my thread,which is to attempt to understand men needing sex to have love & women needing love to have sex (to quote M & C above!)
it's one thing being told that's the case, a second thing to (pretty much) accept it but a whole different thing to feel you really understand - and that's kind of my position at the moment
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
Well I stand the best chance of getting some GREAT sex out of my wife after she's had two glasses of wine and an Ambien right before bed. Seems to put her in a dream-like trance state and she really gets into it. Also I use Viagra recreationally because I'm 41 and like to get hard like I'm still 18. Hehe!
As far as what we both get out of the sex? I think it varies for both sexes. There are times when I receive purely physical satisfaction and times when it's purely emotional. Sometimes both. We are fortunate that our chemistry is off the charts and our sex is always incredible in so many ways. It helps when both of you have a language of love that revolves around affection for sure.
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
Well I guess I'm the odd one out here.
I tend to behave like most men when it comes to sex. Doesn't matter if we have a knock-down, drag out, I want sex anyway. I am capable of separating the two and can do one without the other if I have an itch that needs scratching.
My husband though, while he appears to be the macho-type that doesn't need 'anyone' and 'anything' - I've come to realize that he is the opposite and more like women in this respect. He CANNOT connect physically when he's pissed off or disconnected from me. In fact, he can't understand how I can.
So guess the roles are reversed in my case. And that's the reason for the state of our sex life at this time. He is holding onto resentments and holding sex as a hostage - this I never expected. I expected him to want to jump in the sack just like me regardless of what was going on.
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
Yes you did, MWIL! Haha! I want my wife morning, noon and night. Doesn't matter how crazy or abusive she's been. It's nice to be able to separate the two and it makes the sex remarkable!
Just last night I thought there was no way in tarnation I was going to get her naked as she was rolled over falling asleep with a book in her hands. Next thing you know I rubbed up behind her in a spooning position and it was suddenly go-time! Do all the little foreplay things you know he likes to get him going and he'll come around.
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
Quote:
So why can't the wife flip this around and be sexual when she is not "horny for sex?". In fact it's even more ludicrous that a wife cannot muster the energy for sex given that it is a pleasurable act, whereas domestic support is not a pleasurable act. So, if a wife is interested in the long term good of her marriage, and her life, and her happiness, she should easily find the motivation to engage with her husband in an act that is pleasurable to her, and demonstrates love to him.
because (most)women have to feel loved and appreciated to want to have sex with someone.
Also after a long day with little or no help finally crawling into bed(having not had the chance to even shower that day) with baby puke on your nightgown, you really don't feel that sexy. Instead what you crave is some peace and quite "down time"...and sadly way too many stay at home mommies with young children don't ever get down time.
That is how I felt when I had young children. I would take care of the kids all day long, make dinner, clean dinner up, do baths....do the night time feeding and then crawl into bed exhausted and stinky! I was too exhausted and drained to even consider sex.
Now if just one night my husband had offered to clean up dinner, give the kids a bath and put them to bed so I could go take a nice long hot bath....guess what, he would've gotten sex that night....but sadly that never happened!
Instead I would do it all and crawl into bed stinky and tired and when he'd try to make a move I seriously wanted to chop his hands off!
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
All, it's perfectly fine if you want to live in a non functioning marriage and wait forever for the Man to start meeting your needs so you can then become sexual. The only think I am proposing is that if a wife wants to change the dynamic, she can temporarily set aside her expectation that her needs must be met first, and become the person who sacrifices. But, as stated, this should only be done temporarily and in a short period of time she should vocalize specifically what she needs in order to continue meeting his sexual needs.
If both parties refuse to change, or are waiting for the other party to change first, then nothing will ever improve.
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
All I can do is comment on my own feelings in this respect.
Helping with chores around the house is not a need.
Sex is a need. As human beings we are programmed to have are needs met. The longer a basic physical need is not met the weaker my resolve becomes in terms of monogamy.
It sucks. But I'm being honest. I had this very argument with my wife last night.
The puzzling thing is the more I do (dishes, bathe the kids, get them ready for bed, clean the bathrooms) the less it's noticed. I'm not ready to share my story yet because frankly I'm embarassed, but I can say that I've been in this very situation since my first was born 4 years ago. And what sucks is...I can start to see myself with someone else.
I've told her this and while she does care, just not enough to make any changes. So who makes the first move?
Do you continue to try to meet her domestic needs while your physical ones aren't met? Or do you say if my physical needs aren't being met why should I meet your domestic ones?
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
Or putting it a little differently, why is it when I do it it's inconsequential but when you do the same thing it's the biggest thing since Normandy? I guess it has something to do with some underlying injured pride.
All I can do is comment on my own feelings in this respect.
Helping with chores around the house is not a need.
Sex is a need. As human beings we are programmed to have are needs met. The longer a basic physical need is not met the weaker my resolve becomes in terms of monogamy.
It sucks. But I'm being honest. I had this very argument with my wife last night.
The puzzling thing is the more I do (dishes, bathe the kids, get them ready for bed, clean the bathrooms) the less it's noticed. I'm not ready to share my story yet because frankly I'm embarassed, but I can say that I've been in this very situation since my first was born 4 years ago. And what sucks is...I can start to see myself with someone else.
I've told her this and while she does care, just not enough to make any changes. So who makes the first move?
Do you continue to try to meet her domestic needs while your physical ones aren't met? Or do you say if my physical needs aren't being met why should I meet your domestic ones?
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
A need to me is an action one can take to make the other person feel loved. I can assure you that certain wives feel loved when their husbands give them domestic support. But, if your wife gives you sex but acts like its a chore, burden or the only reason she is doing it is for you... Then you don't like the sex. Same as the domestic support. You have to own it and do it from a position of desire and not a hoop you are jumping to get your wife sexual.
Re: Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads?
i believe alot of women feel like (or have been taught) that giving themselves up sexually is giving in, thats the golden ring for the man. why is that? i know my wife gets great pleasure from sex (albeit 1-2 times a month) but thats just not enough for her to want more. being intimate with my wife on a regular basis would make me MUCH more tolerant and understanding of her other issues.
just my humble opinion, but alot of women need to quit acting like sex is a reward and they get nothing out of it. it isnt giving in
Male Sexuality: The Thread to end all threads? 
I was too exhausted and drained to even consider sex.
