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Had a realization about my marriage; now how do I talk to her about it?

5K views 27 replies 13 participants last post by  LongWalk 
#1 ·
Last night after the kids were asleep, my wife and I were taking care of some busy-work around the house, and starting to wind-down for the night and get ready to get to sleep, etc.

We've been keeping and sleeping in separate rooms for just over a year now. She had said she was going to relax and watch some TV. I was in the kitchen, we talked about a few things with respect to family business for today (going to our son's soccer game this morning etc.), and we wrapped that up.

At that point I said that I would leaver her alone and I didn't want to intrude on her relaxation time or bother her, and that I was going to go to my room. She asked me if I wanted to watch TV with her. I asked her if she wanted me to. She said she couldn't answer the question because she didn't know what kind of frame of mind I was in, how I was feeling, and so on... She said if I was going to be in a bad mood and upset and the like that she'd rather have the time to herself, but that if I could just relax with her and take it easy and not be upset or angry or anything with her or anything else, or anything like that, that she didn't mind if I watched TV with her.

At this point I became very frustrated. I was tempted to simply walk out and not say anything and be upset that she had yet again failed to express a desire to spend time together, and to be with me.

That's when it hit me. I realized that kind of response is a big part of why I feel it's as if she doesn't want to be with me, that she'd rather be alone or with someone else. I need for her to unequivocally express that she wants me to be with her, and not put it on me to make that decision for her. I would much rather she simply say yes or no, and if she says yes, and I end up doing something that bothers or upsets her, or detracts from what she wants to have in terms of what she wants from her experience, then just tell me what it is and ask me to stop, or whatever.

And, I realized, she does this all the time... She insists I make her decisions for her about whether or not we spend time together, and I hate it. I hate it because it says to me that she doesn't really want to be with me and she wants me to show that, when I already have made that clear to her that I want to but I don't feel from her like she wants me to, and I hate that she's placing responsibility for her experience on me.

I want to be able to tell her this is how I feel about this dynamic that exists between us, but I know the chances are great that it will only lead to an argument, and won't be productive at all in terms of helping our relationship. We've fallen into a sort of knee-jerk set of responses to one another over dealing with just about anything with respect to our relationship, and I don't want to keep falling into that, I want to break out of it, and I feel that talking about this issue would be a good thing to do, but at the same time, it's going to be all too easy to have that attempt become just another example of that broken, dysfunctional, knee-jerk routine that we get trapped in so often.

So, I want to let her know how I feel about this; that I still want to spend time with her and be close to her, that I want to be able to have a good time together and enjoy each other's company, but that I need her to stop putting the responsibility for her half of the decision in those situations on me. So how can I do this without it just becoming more of the same dysfunctional dynamic?
 
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#2 ·
Approach her at a time that is convenient for both of you and not when one is stressed or rushed/busy or about to have to go doing something so neither is stressed before the conversation even starts (important you're relaxed too, not just your W). Tell her you want to talk about something important to you in your relationship, ask her if she has time now, if not agree a time for later. All this gently gently will hopefully provide best set up for the discussion.

Tell her how you like spending time with her first, how you want to enjoy her company etc. so it's not just criticism, make her feel you're not accusing anyone of anything and keep it positive. Then say how you feel when she doesn't give a yes/no answer - that it makes you feel she doesn't really want to spend time with you - being honest and not accusational. Tell her you want to feel she wants to spend time with you as you want to spend time with her, ask her what can be done/to give clear yes/no answer. It's called a !@£$ sandwich and sometimes is a good way of delivering something negative between positives to soften it.

Obviously I don't know the dynamics of your relationship, or of either of you individually, so if you think there's no way this'd work then fair play! :)
 
#4 ·
Bad move. This is destructive beta behavior. When she wants to know how you feel she will ask. Telling her is going to hurt the marriage. Sorry - but that is how this works. Because no matter how you "word" this conversation it actually comes out like this: "I love you more than you love me. I am hurt and angry that you don't love me more". Total disaster. If you want her to love you more, you need to be more .... lovable . That does NOT mean being a yes man. Or always doing what she wants. It does mean exerting great emotional self control and learning to deal with fitness tests with humor or at the very least firmness.
 
#5 ·
Okay, so you say you want your wife to give you a simple yes or know answer and don't understand why she doesn't. But YOU didn't give her a simple yes or know answer when she asked of you wanted to watch TV with her. You answered her question with another question. Why do you get upset with your wife for not doing what you don't do yourself???

As for if you were going to be in a bad mood then she would rather you didn't it sounds like she was setting boundaries. Is this a legitimate concern? Are you constantly in a bad mood? That might be something for you to think about.

I sounds like you and your wife really need to work on your communication skills. Perhaps a few counseling sessions are in order.
 
#7 ·
I wonder what would have happened if you’d just taken things at face value and sat down with her and enjoyed her company? Guess you’ll never know.

You “fear” your wife, then you will have built boundaries around you (probably consciously and subconsciously) to protect yourself from whatever it is that’s causing your fear. It’s immensely difficult (impossible?) to enjoy the company of a person you fear. That makes you in the fourth stage of “marriage breakdown”.

Bob
 
#8 ·
I agree with MEM and AFEH

Also there is a thread around here somewhere about physical non sexual touching. It is a very good example on how to be close to your wife and then move with far less effort towards sexual touching.

It sounds like you really spent a lot of time with what seemed to her like sexual touching and groping, and being in her physical space wanting sex constantly, rather then touching her and being close to her without (rightly or wrongly) what she perceived as pressure to have sex.

I happen to love lots of touching, sexual and non sexual from my fiance, but this wasn't all ways the case in my past relationship, and i think it's because my fiance spends a lot of time touching me in non sexual ways. He holds my hand, he helps me with my coat, he opens the door for me, he helps me in and out of the car, he kisses me, and hugs me when we are not having sex or even just about to. Then when he wants to have sex I'm very receptive because he has been intimate with me all along.
 
#9 ·
We've been keeping and sleeping in separate rooms for just over a year now.
The fact that you've let that happen means she's lost respect for you as a man. This will essentially end her sexual interest in you.

Once you've set that arrangement up, everything will default to zero intimacy in your marriage and you have to make a production about trying to get it.

How did that arrangement come about?
 
#11 ·
I can sympathize with your wife on the large breast issue. I am somewhat well endowed myself and I understand the defensiveness. Men (not just husbands) threat you different when you have large breasts. Some men go so far as to make assumptions about your morals and intelligence based on the size of your breasts. It's great that you tried to respect your wife's boundaries concerning her breasts. But do you feel like you deserve a medal? People should respect their spouses boundaries with their bodies, as well as many other issues. Being married doesn't give you a right to grab and grope your spouse. Unless of course they invite you to do so. :awink: I agree with Syrum that touching your spouse should be about more than sex. How you have treated her during the day will do more for sexual desire than suddenly fondling her breast.

BTW, you didn't really answer my question about why she felt the need to put restrictions on your behavior while watching TV. Are you constantly in a bad mood and upset? Is that a legitimate complaint on her part? And if so, did the separate bedrooms lead to your bad mood - or did you bad mood lead to the separate bedroom? Which came first?
 
#15 ·
But for me, I've found the reason for this is fear... regardless of what it may be about, it is ultimately fear of her doing those same things again that leads me to bring them up when we are in conflict. I am afraid of being hurt again by what she did. And as others in this thread have mentioned, it wouldn't be such an issue if I didn't see what look like indicators that it might happen again.
Sounds like fear of your wife to me Heinz. Maybe you meant something else?

Bob
 
#20 ·
HD, you are in a better place than you may think since you have a clear head about how you feel and what you want. Your w is not capable of doing what you wish. You have to show leadership and not take indifference as an answer. Take what she says at face value and expect her to "walk the walk". Don't fall on your sword by soliciting a bad response when she has already told you what you need/want to hear. Don't ask, explain if necessary how you expect her to live up to what she says. Provide gentle but firm guidance
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#22 ·
Wow, this sounds so much worse than how I was towards my husband but he up and left. Trying to rather.
You should tell her what you need in order to be happy in the marriage. Tell her you've been thinking of leaving and why. She may then seriously consider her behavior and see your point of view. It's so hard for a woman to over come certain barriers about sex sometimes unless there is 100% clear and honest communication. I wish my husband had've told me this directly instead of appearing unconditionally loving and stable and then suddenly, irrevocably, changing his mind and leaving me. So tell her this and give her a chance for introspection and it could act as a catalyst for positive change.
 
#23 ·
Hello Heinz: It sounds like you both have a lot of pain and it is very hard to get beyond all of that. It will take something special to help at least one of you to change the destructive dance that seems to be going on.

I wonder whether either of you have thought about at least ONE THING you each did differently when things were really good between you? Sometimes even that thought can be helpful. Like Michelle from Divorce Busting says - somebody has to tip the first domino!
Another thought - have you both ever attended a good Marriage Retreat with follow up afterwards? That one weekend can be equal to several months in good marriage counseling. I've seen many couples have a major turnaround in a weekend or even several weeks in counseling.

Wishing you both all the best....WaverlyHanson
 
#26 ·
I didn't take your wife's request the same as you did. I think by her asking she had just invited you to spend time with her because that was what she wanted. I do not think she would have asked had she not been interested in spending time with you. When you then asked if that was what she wanted that right there set up the scenario that you do not like. Perhaps you need to be careful with your questioning and your own thought process.
 
#28 ·
The OP has a very interesting self description:

Grew up in Michigan as an only child; my mother was a single parent, who was regularly emotionally abusive and occasionally physically abusive. Spent a lot of time with my grandparents, and my grandfather was essentially my dad. He was a farmer and I spent a lot of time on his farm helping him tend his orchards. Had several cousins, but I was the oldest of all the grand children, so none of them were really like brothers or sisters to me.

We moved to California the summer I was ten and have lived the rest of my life in the northern california area. I was a troubled teenager and all that goes along with it, drugs, STD's, small record of misdemeanors, etc. Had a severe life crisis in my early 20's and found AA and Al-Anon and those programs and the people I met there saved my life for all intents and purposes.

After that started college and eventually earned a PhD in experimental and cognitive psychology. I work as a professor in the California State University system and teach topics such as physiological psychology, sensory perception, evolutionary psychology, statistics and research methods, and the like.
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Occupation
College professor; psychology department.
 
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