General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
At first, there is relief that the fighting is over/subsided.
But, the call of the soul forces us to seek connection. When he realizes there isn't any..... that will be his moment.
I hope you are right.
I can't be certain what his soul calls, and what he's forced to seek----too many times it has called him to seek isolation. At least from me. Posted via Mobile Device
And when was the first time you felt this sort of disappointment in another person?
Not sure if you're being rhetorical and redirecting me...either way, yes, I know parts work is in order when I'm frustrated.
AND....I'm preparing myself for the possibility that my every effort--parts work, cooling down, all the moves *I* make--won't change what needs to change or heal on his side.
He may never see himself.
And the point of this thread is that I doubt he'll "come around" like others do, because he doesn't know how. Posted via Mobile Device
I can also tell that ever since we got back home, he's been watching and waiting for me to bring up the issues of the past 3 weeks.
I won't---because I've made peace with mySELF over all of it.
Thus, I have done EXACTLY what he's told me to do. Many times.
Right now we're distant. In the old days, I'd reach out because the distance was uncomfortable for me.
Sorry folks, but I'd like to see him be uncomfortable with the distance. Posted via Mobile Device
I used to do the same thing.
Reach out first, because the distance was uncomfortable to me (including the silence).
But the distance wasn't uncomfortable to him, the silence neither, because he is more comfortable that way (and in a way he might be controlling me too because he knows the distance and silence are uncomfortable to me).
So I stopped with being uncomfortable with it.
If he doesn't want to talk, fine - I don't either.
If he doesn't want to interact - fine - I don't either.
This is not my nature, at all, so it's been quite difficult for me - but my counselor once told me that silence did not always equal rejection - that's how I used to view it.
Now I just view it as how he wants to be in the moment or if he's shutting down - then he's just acting childish.
It's no longer my concern.
I've spent way too much time with all my energy focused on him being okay, him being happy, him not having a bad day - no matter how it affected me.
Not anymore - I don't let him ruin my day - he wants to be pissy - no problem - doesn't mean I have to.
It's not easy for me - far from it - but I've been more at peace with worrying more about my peace of mind, than his.
Right now it feels tenuous because once again, it feels like he's "gotten away" with acting like a jerk.
No resolution. I tried showing with my actions, not words.
Now we're "back to normal." Sort of.
But i dont actually KNOW what he feels like.
BECAUSE HE WON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT IT.
So.....
I'm deciding not to open up discussion, because he'll shut down if I do.
And just waiting for the next "test."---which is what I call it, because my response makes a difference.
Conrad--your point that right now there's relief at the lack of arguing--I think that's where we are. Posted via Mobile Device
There is nothing wrong with you being the pursurer. What's wrong is his treatment of you. So you've distanced yourself because he's been mean and you are standing your ground. If he won't come to you it's only because he still thinks he holds the power and you will come around eventually. This is a power struggle that you must win.
And of course the old you was more comfortable. Change is always uncomfortable at first doesn't mean you should stay the course though.
There is nothing wrong with you being the pursurer. What's wrong is his treatment of you. So you've distanced yourself because he's been mean and you are standing your ground. If he won't come to you it's only because he still thinks he holds the power and you will come around eventually. This is a power struggle that you must win.
And of course the old you was more comfortable. Change is always uncomfortable at first doesn't mean you should stay the course though.
To be honest, I'm only partially standing my ground.
This crap is tricky.
The "stand your ground" fights with the "give in order to get" and the "rejecting him won't help" and the "i've contributed to the overall picture" and the "this is HIS way of restoring connection" (sex)
But i'm not doing what I wouldve done in the past---push for discussion and resolution, to be met with push-back from him.
I guess that's a baby step.
No doubt there will be an opportunity soon enough for me to "handle" something else.
Another baby step: the ability to resist engaging in bad fighting.
I've seen both of my own baby steps happen, so I know I can do others too! Woohoo! Posted via Mobile Device
Me: "that doesn't sound like stuttering."
him: opinions
me: "hm."
him: pause movie, lecture me on his opinions
me: "yeah...still don't think it's 'stuttering.'l
him--raised voice: "why do you have to argue with me?!? You insist on bickering with me!!"
me calmly: "please don't raise your voice at me."
him: "SORRY I raised my voice!"
me: "thank you."
me: toss ipad on couch
him: "don't throw my ipad!"
me: "I've seen you throw it around plenty of times. Now you're just picking on me."
him: yell yell yell blah blah blah
me: "please do not yell at me for the rest of the night. I won't be yelled at."
him, all keyed up: "yeah? Wanna hear what I want from you for the rest of the night?!?"
me: "I'm going to the bathroom to wash my face."
him: "don't walk away from me!!!"
me, out of bathroom 5 min later: silence.
Him: silence
Credam,
The entire movie is portrayed to be about a king who stutters. Now - if you are a speech therapist and know something I don't know - feel free to educate me. I just googled this - and apparently the entire world believes he suffered a severe case of stuttering. Sitting there saying he isn't, and then repeating that you don't think he was without offering an alternate explanation - would annoy many men, not just your H.
Tossing his ipad is escalation. I don't care if he does it as well. In the heat of conflict - doing that is escalation.
BTW - I DO think he is being a jerk. I do. I also think that you are doing things tonight that a "typical" male would not respond well to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by credamdóchasgra
Watching a "the king's speech."
Me: "that doesn't sound like stuttering."
him: opinions
me: "hm."
him: pause movie, lecture me on his opinions
me: "yeah...still don't think it's 'stuttering.'l
him--raised voice: "why do you have to argue with me?!? You insist on bickering with me!!"
me calmly: "please don't raise your voice at me."
him: "SORRY I raised my voice!"
me: "thank you."
me: toss ipad on couch
him: "don't throw my ipad!"
me: "I've seen you throw it around plenty of times. Now you're just picking on me."
him: yell yell yell blah blah blah
me: "please do not yell at me for the rest of the night. I won't be yelled at."
him, all keyed up: "yeah? Wanna hear what I want from you for the rest of the night?!?"
me: "I'm going to the bathroom to wash my face."
him: "don't walk away from me!!!"
me, out of bathroom 5 min later: silence.
Him: silence
me: "please do not yell at me for the rest of the night. I won't be yelled at."
Just a small pointer but one small change in dialogue can help your own sanity. From a boundaries perspective it is not helpful to say, "i wont be yelled at" because that is not something you can control. You're sort of demanding that he not yell, but of course he will, and in addition your not really communicating with him. Below is directly from http://www.joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm
So, it is very important for us to learn to communicate about how another person's behavior is affecting us - without making blaming "you" type of statements. There is a simple formula to help us do this. It is:
When you . . . . .
I feel . . . . .
I want . . . .
Since I am powerless over you, I will take this action to protect myself if you behave in this way.
It is best to use primary feeling words (described in the articles above) when expressing the "I feel . . . ." part of this formula - but it is also OK to use words that describe the messages we feel are inherent in their behaviors.
When your voice gets louder and your face gets red and you clench your fists,
I feel scared, intimidated, unsafe. I feel like you are going to hit me.
I feel angry, hurt, discounted, unimportant, insignificant, invisible, like I am being punished. It feels like you do not want to communicate with me.
This is from the same website but I thought it was dead on for how you try to communicate with him:
When you . . . . .
The "When you . . ." statement is a description of behavior. It is very important actually describe the behavior. To say to another person: when you get angry; when you shame me; or such statements - is too general, not specific enough. These types of general statements do not really describe the behavior - they are our interpretations of the behavior. A major facet of codependence is assuming, interpreting, mind reading, and fortune telling - due to our childhood conditioning. We think we know the intentions and motives of others. We assume that they are conscious of their behavior and will know what we are talking about.
It is vital to realize that we do not know how to communicate in a direct and honest manner. We need to stop interpreting and start communicating. It is important to describe the behavior rather than our interpretation and assumptions about what the behavior means.
Credam,
The entire movie is portrayed to be about a king who stutters. Now - if you are a speech therapist and know something I don't know - feel free to educate me. I just googled this - and apparently the entire world believes he suffered a severe case of stuttering. Sitting there saying he isn't, and then repeating that you don't think he was without offering an alternate explanation - would annoy many men, not just your H.
Tossing his ipad is escalation. I don't care if he does it as well. In the heat of conflict - doing that is escalation.
BTW - I DO think he is being a jerk. I do. I also think that you are doing things tonight that a "typical" male would not respond well to.
Oh, dear Lord.
No, I'm not a speech therapist. Not the point.
And his lecturing opinions were NOT a platform defending why the king WAS a stutterer.
Also not the point.
Fwiw, I'm an elementary teacher who's worked with kids who stutter. But whatever.
I WAS TRYING TO OFFER AN ALTERNATE EXPLANATION UNTIL I GOT YELLED OVER!!!
I also googled it and found the same thing you did.
I started to mention that to him, but he said, "i really don't want to hear you about this right now. It's just going to solicit more issues."
do you see how only one of us made this discussion personal?
The point is: H can freely express his opinion without me *making it personal.*
The second I do likewise, i'm "insisting on arguing with him."
He said, "here's what I think..." freely.
I wanted to converse: "here's what I think..." and I got yelled at *in the middle of my sentence.*
My ideas were no more/less intelligent or informed than his
*He just interpreted them as an attack.*
the point is: *the moment my opinions are different from his, he sees it as an attack.*
At some point I said to him, "Just because I have a different opinion than you, doesn't mean I'm trying to argue or fight with you."
About the ipad---I had no desire to passive aggressively escalate anything, though I can see how it would be interpreted that way.
I was *getting it out of the way* because I no longer wanted to sit next to him.
Bad move--OOPS. Posted via Mobile Device
Re: Why I doubt it's going to work out. 
