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Relationship truths

23K views 391 replies 28 participants last post by  MEM2020 
#1 ·
Saw this the other day, and wanted to share it. :)

12 Amazing Relationship Truths (as discovered by John Gottman, a marriage researcher at U of WA)

1. Fighting doesn't break up marriages. Losing your friendship does. If you focus on feeding your connection in the good times, you will have the "emotional bank account" in place to make it through the difficult times. Do you have positive sentiment override or negative sentiment override? It's not the fight that counts, but the repair attempt and how it is received. The strength of your friendship will determine how successful repair attempt are.

2. Arguments don't hurt your relationship, it's how you argue. Harsh set-up, followed by criticism, contempt, defensiveness, or stonewalling (ignoring, shutting the other person out) can lead to flooding (becoming shell-shocked and overwhelmed and disengaging emotionally).

3. Successful repair attempts are the key. These are more successful if the couple are intimately familiar with each other's lives on a daily basis. They have a richly detailed "love map" of the other person (where you store all the relevant info about your partner's life).

They remember major events in each other's history, keep updating the information as their partners world changes, know each other's goals in life, worries, hopes, and fears. From this knowledge springs not only love, but the fortitude to weather stressful events and conflict.

They are in touch, not just with the outlines of each other's lives but with each other's deepest longings, beliefs and fears and no matter how busy they are, they make each other their priority. (Even over family of origin. He puts her first before his mom and makes it clear to all involved.)

4. Two of the most crucial elements for lasting love are fondness and admiration. You have to remain aware of how crucial fondness and admiration are to the friendship that is at the core of a good marriage. Fondness and admiration are the antidotes to what Gottman calls "The Four Horses of the Apocolypse": contempt, criticism, defensiveness, and stonewalling.

5. Real life romance is fueled by hundreds of small ways that you turn toward each other rather than away. Daily small connections keep the couple emotionally engaged and build up an "emotional savings account" that can be drawn from in times of stress. Turning toward your mate in the little things is the key to long lasting romance.

In a couple, partners make "bids" for their partner's attention, affection, humor, or support. People either turn toward one another after these "bids", or turn away. Turning toward is the basis for emotional connection, romance and passion. Turning away (ignoring) a bid kills intimacy. The relationship won't survive. Often, a partner's protest is simply a bid for more connection. When the other partner ignores it, anger increases and distance is created.

The first step in turning toward each other more is simply to be aware of how crucial these mundane moments are, not just to the stability of your relationship, but to it's ongoing sense of romance. Often, a person in the couple turns away, not out of malice but out of mindlessness. They must realize the importance of little moments and gestures and pay attention to doing them.

6. Things that fill the emotional bank account (things that say, "I love you and I want more of you")

exercising together
playing board games
celebrating milestones
traveling together
cooking together
eating meals and each talking about your day to keep updated
talking by open fire
reading together out loud

7. Men who allow their wives to influence them have happier marriages and are less likely to divorce than men who resist their wives' influence. The happiest, most stable marriages were the ones in which the husband treated his wife with respect and didn't resist power sharing and decision making with her but actively searched for common ground with her. (Stonewalling and refusing to plan things out with her is a power play. The one who says the least has the most power. When a man ignores her influence, it creates instability in the relationship and the marriage will be damaged).

Women tend to allow their husbands to influence them. The research bears out that she can, in anger, escalate into negativity and it won't harm the marriage but if the husband does it (through stonewalling or bullying) it does harm their marriage. If the husband accepts her influence, the wife is less likely to be harsh when something causes stress. If she feels hopeless about being able to influence him, she will be "triggered" and her negativity will escalate.

When a husband accepts his wifes influence, his open attitude heightens the positive in his relationship by strengthening his friendship with his wife. It makes it easier for him to deepen his love map of her, bolster fondness and admiraton and turn toward his wife. This helps him learn from his wife many of the emotional skills that she learned growing up and he didn't. Studies show that from a very young age (1 1/2 years), boys will accept influence only from boys when they play and girls accept influence from boys and girls equally.

8. The emotionally intelligent husband:

Learns how to connect with his wife
Chooses "us" over "me"
Makes his career less of a priority than his marriage
Makes a detailed map of his wife's world
Keeps in daily touch with his admiration and fondness of her
Communicates his admiration and fondness of her by turning toward her in a myriad of daily actions
This leads to a meaningful and rich life
Having this happy home base makes it possible for him to create and work effectively
Because he is so connected to his mate, she will not only come to him when she is troubled but also when she is delighted

9. More than 80% of the time, it is the wife who brings up sticky marital issues, while the husband tries to avoid discussing them. This isn't a symptom of a troubled marriage- it's true in most happy marriages as well.

10. Marital conflicts fall into two categories: Perpetual (unsolvable) and Resolvable. Couples can get gridlocked over perpetual problems until they realize that unrequited dreams are at the core of every gridlocked conflict. The endless arguement symbolizes some profound difference between them that needs to be addressed before the problem can be put in it's place (and a compromise reached).

In gridlock:
Conflict makes you feel rejected by your partner
You talk but make no headway
You become entrenched in your position and unwilling to budge
When you do discuss it, you end up more frustrated and hurt
You start to villify each other
Humor and amusement and affection disappear
Become less and less willing to compromise
Finally, disengage emotionally

11. The basis for coping effectively is communicating a basic acceptance of your partner's personality. People can only change if they feel they are basically liked and accepted as they are. To be able to repair what's already happened, you have to forgive each other for past differences and give up past resentments.

12. To resolve conflict:

Soften your start up approach (women are usually responsible for harsh start-up but husband can make sure she is feeling known, respected, and loved and that he accepts her influence and her stance will soften)
Learn to make and receive repair attempts
Soothe yourself and each other when emotions get high
Compromise
Be tolerant of each other's faults
Build "we-ness", make sure your partner comes before anyone else
Work as a team on financial issues
Keep working on your unresolvable conflicts. Couples who are demanding of their marriage are more likely to have deeply satisfying unions than those who lower their expectations.

Condensed from The Seven Principles of Making a Marriage Work by John Gottman.
 
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#2 ·
I do agree with most of this except #6. The author makes an assumption that all couples can do all of these activities.

While my wife and I can do some of these without conflict (like exercising, celebrating milestones, traveling, eating meals, getting alone and just talking) we have discovered that she does not like me in the kitchen when she cooks and I don't argue since I do not enjoy cooking. With regards to board games - we used to play Backgammon in college and in the early part of our marriage. We are both very competitive and SHE especially does not like to lose. The last game we played was about 20 years ago and she ended up crying because I kept sending her chip back to ground zero no matter how far along it was - she accused me of doing this just to be mean!! Now, I am super competitive - I was doing it to win the game - and I would say I used to win 70% of the time - having my wife cry and become mad at me kind of took the enjoyment out of the game - so we do not play board games anymore.
 
#3 ·
1. Fighting doesn't break up marriages. Losing your friendship does. If you focus on feeding your connection in the good times, you will have the "emotional bank account" in place to make it through the difficult times. Do you have positive sentiment override or negative sentiment override? It's not the fight that counts, but the repair attempt and how it is received. The strength of your friendship will determine how successful repair attempt are.

2. Arguments don't hurt your relationship, it's how you argue. Harsh set-up, followed by criticism, contempt, defensiveness, or stonewalling (ignoring, shutting the other person out) can lead to flooding (becoming shell-shocked and overwhelmed and disengaging emotionally).
I stopped at these 2....as soon as I seen John Gottman's name.. I knew I would love your post.. and ALL he spoke...
...

I feel this Author is a mastermind on Relationship harmony ....what works, what doesn't ...and his study on Conflict styles is RIGHT ON... before reading some of his work... I think I felt a little embarrassed , maybe guilty for how "Volatile" my temper can be in a moment.... but after reading about his conflict styles...(my thread here : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ead-4-types-5-1-ratio-marriage-conflicts.html )

... I realized how NORMAL I am.. I kinda knew that anyway ;).. but how could I explain it !...
 
#4 ·
I see number three railed against here often. The notion that both spouses should be open to one another in all things, past present and future. I agree with it just interesting that many here don't

Number seven is a bit of a mystery to me. Guess I haven't seen that one before.

Don't know that I would call these truths but it certainly isn't a bad list
 
#8 ·
Gottman did his research over a long period of time, I believe. I have heard him referred to as the leading American, if not world-wide, researcher on marriage.

Number 7, to me, is a key point. It shows the unique position of the husband to influence the course of the marriage:

7. Men who allow their wives to influence them have happier marriages and are less likely to divorce than men who resist their wives' influence. The happiest, most stable marriages were the ones in which the husband treated his wife with respect and didn't resist power sharing and decision making with her but actively searched for common ground with her. (Stonewalling and refusing to plan things out with her is a power play. The one who says the least has the most power. When a man ignores her influence, it creates instability in the relationship and the marriage will be damaged).

Women tend to allow their husbands to influence them. The research bears out that she can, in anger, escalate into negativity and it won't harm the marriage but if the husband does it (through stonewalling or bullying) it does harm their marriage. If the husband accepts her influence, the wife is less likely to be harsh when something causes stress. If she feels hopeless about being able to influence him, she will be "triggered" and her negativity will escalate.

When a husband accepts his wifes influence, his open attitude heightens the positive in his relationship by strengthening his friendship with his wife. It makes it easier for him to deepen his love map of her, bolster fondness and admiraton and turn toward his wife. This helps him learn from his wife many of the emotional skills that she learned growing up and he didn't. Studies show that from a very young age (1 1/2 years), boys will accept influence only from boys when they play and girls accept influence from boys and girls equally.


Also important is the conflict resolution technique in point 12: Even if a woman approaches her husband angrily, the husband can defuse her anger by making her feel listened to and respected ("husband can make sure she is feeling known, respected, and loved, and that he accepts her influence and she will soften").
 
#5 ·
4. Two of the most crucial elements for lasting love are fondness and admiration. You have to remain aware of how crucial fondness and admiration are to the friendship that is at the core of a good marriage. Fondness and admiration are the antidotes to what Gottman calls "The Four Horses of the Apocolypse": contempt, criticism, defensiveness, and stonewalling.
Admiration...I don't think it's talked about nearly enough.. how does one feel that..so much depends on US ...and how we treat our partners, of course...



Those 4 Horsemen... a little more depth here..

* Criticism- the act of passing judgment as to the merits of another / faultfinding. "Criticism is “really a way of fueling the attack, so you state your complaint as an attack on the other person.” ... “It’s not constructive, it winds up leading to an escalation of the conflict" ......No Criticism Please!

* Contempt... When we communicate in this state, we are truly meaning - treating others with disrespect, mocking them with sarcasm, ridicule, name-calling, mimicking, and/or body language such as eye-rolling.:rolleyes: The target of contempt is made to feel despised and worthless.....The Danger of Contempt

* Defensiveness- conveys the message, “The problem is not me. It’s you.” From this position you imply that, because your partner threw the first stone, they are responsible for the entire conflict. You avoid taking responsibility for your own behavior by pointing to something they did prior to their complaint about you. You do not acknowledge that which is true in what they are saying about your behavior.

Defensiveness: The Poison Pill to Relationships

* Stonewalling -
also known as "the Silent treatment". .. stonewalling is the absolute refusal to consider your partner’s perspective. If you listen at all, you do it dismissively or contemptuously.This is the passive-aggressive stance many people take during a fight. It's the "Nothing's wrong, I'm fine!" said even when there is clearly something wrong.

Other common songs of the stonewaller are:“Just leave me alone…”...“Do whatever you want"....“End of conversation"..."that's enough"....

Stonewalling: How to recognize and fix ......... How to Ruin a Perfectly Good Relationship - Stonewall
 
#60 ·
Hang on. This is good, isn't it? I like responsibility. If as a husband I exert the most influence on the success of our marriage this is great. I'm happy to take that responsibility.
7. Men who allow their wives to influence them have happier marriages and are less likely to divorce than men who resist their wives' influence. The happiest, most stable marriages were the ones in which the husband treated his wife with respect and didn't resist power sharing and decision making with her but actively searched for common ground with her. (Stonewalling and refusing to plan things out with her is a power play. The one who says the least has the most power. When a man ignores her influence, it creates instability in the relationship and the marriage will be damaged).
I don't really understand why this point should be so contentious. I'd like to illustrate this idea of "influence" with an example from my own life.

One day my wife and I had a passionate (not heated) discussion on the new colour for the walls of our living room. We were broadly in agreement, she wanted it darker, I had my reasons on why it should be a shade lighter. Eventually I said "I'm an art director. My clients pay for my taste. I'm known for my colour control and for being understated. I've done this for years. What gives you the right to over rule me?". This was all said in good humour., btw. My wife's reply was very simple. "I'm your wife". And that was it. It was enough. Who cares what I do for a living. I'm not allowed to "pull rank" on my wife we're a marriage of equals. This is what we both want. So, I deferred.

And when I came home that afternoon she was with the painters making the paint lighter. I just walked in and gave her a wink.

My learning: My wife has said she was delighted I was willing to fight tooth and nail for that colour (without aggression). She didn't want me to be like many husbands. It was my living space too. But, as I deferred and allowed "her influence" she was open to the fact that she was in error. It 's not important. We're on the same side.
 
#10 ·
I think that is what his research findings led him to conclude.
 
#24 ·
Err, I don't think anyone is getting a free pass. I think that statistically, men are more likely to (a) not invest time and energy into building and maintaining emotional bonds, and (b) be unilateral in their approaches to problem solving.

See in particular #8 which, although a stereotype, is telling.

And so it is these statistical generalizations plus the fact that these two things are absolutely critical to a successful relationship (between equals) that make it seem as though the burden is on the man.
 
#14 ·
I'm talking about his persistent long term unwillingness to receive my influence, John. When a wife feels she has no voice, she's invisible, irrelevent, and taken for granted..., one day when she wakes up and smells the coffee, she's going to want out.

This could happen around many issues besides drinking, many many issues.

Based on your posts, I would look at Gottman's work on the 4 horsemen. I hear a great deal of contempt toward your W in your posts and a M cannot survive contempt. One of the things I realized about my M at the end was that I really was feeling a great deal of contempt toward my H, just cannot respect him and his actions and his failure to take responsibility for damage he has caused.
 
#20 ·
I don't think Gottman is suggesting that it's primarily the man's responsibility. I think he is saying that it is an equal responsibility, BUT typically women already accept their husband or partner's influence, but men often do not and need to make an effort to do so as it is outside their usual pattern of behavior.
 
#16 ·
Number 7 seems to be written from the assumption that men hold almost absolute power and control in the relationship. It seems to assume it is not a partnership of equals.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Number 7 says that where men are unwilling to share power, their M is at high risk for failure. Such men are not in a "partnership of equals" because they absolutely refuse to listen to and respect their wives' input and receive her influence.

number 7 is just based on observations from a laboratory that wives nearly universally are willing to receive their husbands' influence. There are SOME husbands who are not and in those cases where a husband is not, it does not bode well for the M

Here's a link to his report of the clinical research: https://books.google.com/books?id=cQsX_UgESWUC&lpg=&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
#19 ·
"5. Real life romance is fueled by hundreds of small ways that you turn toward each other rather than away. Daily small connections keep the couple emotionally engaged and build up an "emotional savings account" that can be drawn from in times of stress. Turning toward your mate in the little things is the key to long lasting romance.

In a couple, partners make "bids" for their partner's attention, affection, humor, or support. People either turn toward one another after these "bids", or turn away. Turning toward is the basis for emotional connection, romance and passion. Turning away (ignoring) a bid kills intimacy. The relationship won't survive. Often, a partner's protest is simply a bid for more connection. When the other partner ignores it, anger increases and distance is created.

The first step in turning toward each other more is simply to be aware of how crucial these mundane moments are, not just to the stability of your relationship, but to it's ongoing sense of romance. Often, a person in the couple turns away, not out of malice but out of mindlessness. They must realize the importance of little moments and gestures and pay attention to doing them."


I find HB and I are lacking #5 - that connection, that intimacy. That bond that makes the difference between marriage and roommates. I want to and need to connect with my hubby this way.

For me - figuring out how to get this back is the million dollar question.
 
#21 ·
What are some examples of a husband allowing his wife to influence him? Are we talking like...

H: Where do you want to go for dinner?
W: How about that nice Italian place we haven't been to in a while?
H: Ok.


I guess I'm not getting it...
 
#22 ·
Here is an example from my own marriage:

Fifteen years ago I developed gum disease. I was going to the dentist every three months, brushing and flossing multiple times a day, and using a special, expensive rinse the dental office sold me. Yet every checkup, I was getting worse.

I started to do some research. I read that brushing with a mix of baking soda, salt, hydrogen peroxide, and water would cure it. I started doing it.

Next visit, my pockets had stabilized.

Visit after that, they had shrunk.

After that, great checkups. No more gum disease.

I was excited and urged Dug to do the same.

For nearly fifteen years, he dismissed my protocol. It took too much time. It tasted funny. It was weird. Wouldn't the dentist have told him if it would help? He travelled too much. It would be a pain to carry all that around, or have to go get it in each country.

A year or so ago he developed gum disease, and bought the special rinse. Did not help. Last fall he was told he needed a special procedure that would cost around $2k. He was told it was not guaranteed to work, though.

I told him to use my $1 formula. He started immediately and . . . next visit: perfect bill of health.
 
#26 ·
exercising together - Prefers to do that with friends.

playing board games - Last two times I asked she said no

celebrating milestones - I have quit putting any emotion into these events because they are met with disappointment generally.

traveling together - together? Just us? Twice in the last seven years.

cooking together - never

eating meals and each talking about your day to keep updated -
we do talk about our day everyday.

talking by open fire - sounds fun. maybe a fire pit this summer?

reading together out loud - I am not reading Jane Austen.

My therapist suggested this book to me along with Sue Johnson's "Hold me Tight". I think my therapist has me pegged as I am in agreement with the approach that both Gottman and Johnson teach.

I do look at that list and wonder why I try.
 
#29 ·
#27 ·
they SHOULD have equal responsiblity for the M but women tend to take on too much (see #9) and men tend to take on too little (see #7-9).

as far as the 4 horsemen, John, nowhere does Gottman says only men do them. There are tendencies for men to do some of them over others and vice versa but both men and women are guilty

IMO if you are really stuck at contempt, it's done, put a fork in it. See I did not like MYSELF when I felt that way; I don't want to feel that way but with no influence with H it became chronic and it was better for both of us IMO to put the pitiful M out of its misery
 
#28 ·
they SHOULD have equal responsiblity for the M but women tend to take on too much (see #9) and men tend to take on too little (see #7-9).
:iagree:

That is what I have seen in life, too, Blonde.
 
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#32 ·
For you guys who doubt the validity of Gottman's research and claims, you could actually read the books yourselves, and then decide if you still doubt it. Why argue with jld or anyone else about what it means or how he got to his conclusions? If you want to know about it, read it. They are national best sellers and have been around for a very long time and are the most respected bit of research on marriage ever done.
 
#53 ·
I doubt the validity and I've read at least one of his books.

And got value out of it.

The basic problem as I see it with analyzing his work, is that it's very, very subjective.

It doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of truth there. Hell, I've used some of the concepts to great success.

My problem is where he attempts to intersect with science.
 
#33 ·
His research and my personal experience are fully aligned.

Last night we had a hiccup. M2 felt rejected and was upset with me.

From a 'mechanical' standpoint, I did nothing wrong. Still, M2 was genuinely upset and feeling rejected.

The 26 year old me would have gotten angry at her. I would have been angry that she was mad at me without a logically valid reason.

The 40 year old version of me would have calmly explained why I was not at fault and shrugged it off if she remained upset.

The 52 year old version responded with:

I'm sorry. This is my fault. In an effort to not pressure you, I've created the false impression that I don't desire you. Nothing will stop me from rocking your world tomorrow night.

She accepted that as true and slowly relaxed.

This morning - first words out of my mouth were: I'm looking forward to ensuring that tonight, I make up for last night.

----------
This isn't a zero sum game. I didn't feel worse to make M2 feel better. I felt BETTER helping M2 feel good.




QUOTE=jld;12474090]I think that is what his research findings led him to conclude.[/QUOTE]
 
#35 ·
His research and my personal experience are fully aligned.

Last night we had a hiccup. M2 felt rejected and was upset with me.

From a 'mechanical' standpoint, I did nothing wrong. Still, M2 was genuinely upset and feeling rejected.

The 26 year old me would have gotten angry at her. I would have been angry that she was mad at me without a logically valid reason.

The 40 year old version of me would have calmly explained why I was not at fault and shrugged it off if she remained upset.

The 52 year old version responded with:

I'm sorry. This is my fault. In an effort to not pressure you, I've created the false impression that I don't desire you. Nothing will stop me from rocking your world tomorrow night.

She accepted that as true and slowly relaxed.

This morning - first words out of my mouth were: I'm looking forward to ensuring that tonight, I make up for last night.

----------
This isn't a zero sum game. I didn't feel worse to make M2 feel better. I felt BETTER helping M2 feel good.




I think that is what his research findings led him to conclude.
I understand the point here...basically suck it up to keep the peace. So...since the mechanical problem is now your fault, when it happens again, what then? What are you doing to fix it to ensure that it never happens again? That is the problem with allowing someone to put the blame on you for an issue that is beyond your control, or for reasons that are not accurate. Part of accepting blame for something is the implication that you will actively work to keep it from happening again.

I do get what your purpose was, and lord knows I've done the same thing, but it does potentially set a dangerous precedent.
 
#34 ·
There are lots of books that fit the above description... And books I disagree with.

In psychology we do a great job being descriptive (describing and categorizing an issue) and a not so great a job being prescriptive (providing a blueprint to repeat / predict what it is to do).

I deal with a lot of the same methods in my lab - high speed video recording, eye tracking... Vital measurements... All to describe and predict user satisfaction with gadgets we design or use every day. It is phenomenally difficult to do it for a cell phone or dishwasher. To do it to a pair of humans... Describe - yes. Predict and suggest ? I have my doubts.
 
#36 ·
#39 ·
Deep sigh.

This wasn't conflict avoidance.

This was a situation where a legitimate schedule conflict happened after a few weeks of what seemed to M2 to be total sexual disinterest on my part.

So the schedule thing would not have caused an issue by itself. But coming on the heels of the last couple weeks it did.

So yes - I set a precedent. If M2 is feeling neglected, she ought to tell me - and I'll fix it.....





QUOTE=samyeagar;12478730]I understand the point here...basically suck it up to keep the peace. So...since the mechanical problem is now your fault, when it happens again, what then? What are you doing to fix it to ensure that it never happens again? That is the problem with allowing someone to put the blame on you for an issue that is beyond your control, or for reasons that are not accurate. Part of accepting blame for something is the implication that you will actively work to keep it from happening again.

I do get what your purpose was, and lord knows I've done the same thing, but it does potentially set a dangerous precedent.[/QUOTE]
 
#40 ·
I recognise and fully accept this list - very accurate. The real problems faced by those coming onto this forum is when the damage has already been done and the seemingly impossible repair that needs to be done to undo the damage. Far too often people coming here are in situations where its too late and maybe even infidelity has taken place as a result. In such situations its useful to remember and act on this list, but only after repair has been done which is the hard part.
 
#44 ·
[/QUOTE]

Sort of like what pervades popular television and such with the buffoon husbands and fathers?[/QUOTE]

Well nothing that outright disrespectful I would say. That would not ever keep me in a relationship being talked to or demeaned that way.

This is more of a general disregard for things suggested or opinions shared. Even if I knew a great deal about the topic or had direct experience with. Example happend just today. My GF was upset because her son went to a field trip and this place takes pictures. She was promised they would be up by this week by his teacher so here is Monday , they aren't on the website so she is upset. Her kiddo and mine go to different schools but this company is the exact same that my oldest daughter used last year. I explained that they post the pictures once all the grades have been through, kinda post them all at once type thing. Well she went on and on about what the teacher said and it would be this week. Guess what... She called the teacher and I was right. This will be posted THIS Friday after the 6th grade class goes through.

So she automatically dismissed what I was saying, even though I had direct experience with this last year, and instead went with what the year one teacher said. It's more just that kinda stuff
 
#49 ·
Wolf,

Lots of experience with this type behavior. It's insecurity.

The more secure M2 feels around me, the less competitive / dismissive she is.




Sort of like what pervades popular television and such with the buffoon husbands and fathers?[/QUOTE]

Well nothing that outright disrespectful I would say. That would not ever keep me in a relationship being talked to or demeaned that way.

This is more of a general disregard for things suggested or opinions shared. Even if I knew a great deal about the topic or had direct experience with. Example happend just today. My GF was upset because her son went to a field trip and this place takes pictures. She was promised they would be up by this week by his teacher so here is Monday , they aren't on the website so she is upset. Her kiddo and mine go to different schools but this company is the exact same that my oldest daughter used last year. I explained that they post the pictures once all the grades have been through, kinda post them all at once type thing. Well she went on and on about what the teacher said and it would be this week. Guess what... She called the teacher and I was right. This will be posted THIS Friday after the 6th grade class goes through.

So she automatically dismissed what I was saying, even though I had direct experience with this last year, and instead went with what the year one teacher said. It's more just that kinda stuff[/QUOTE]
 
#52 ·
. . .Studies show that from a very young age (1 1/2 years), boys will accept influence only from boys when they play and girls accept influence from boys and girls equally.

. . . .
Years and years ago my husband told me point blank to my face that "guys only listen to other guys"; with regards of how to do something, or in forming an opinion.

I think I've still tried in vain over the years to communicate about things I feel real strongly about. He either doesn't listen [the worst is when he turns up the volume on the TV with the remote when I'm talking]; or I trust that he is listening --- but then later I realize he wasn't [by his total lack of recall of that conversation].

So I don't try to influence him about anything anymore. I can't remember when I foundered and gave up.

The only possible exception is I insist on preparing him a 2x daily regimen of vitamins/herbs. He constantly laughs/ridicules it.

I guess I "stonewall" (?) now. I keep doing it and ignore his comments.

I have thought about giving up doing this. Then he can let his lack of exercise, crummy diet and avoidance of my food supplementation take their natural course.

We did lower his borderline high blood pressure "naturally", but that was only because a male acquaintance affirmed what I said and told him to get his blood pressure regulated naturally and avoid the pharmaceuticals as long as possible.


He has no music, in his vast collection, of any female musicians.


jld - what is that recipe for the natural gum rinse? I'm always looking for new ways to clean my teeth and gums.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Years and years ago my husband told me point blank to my face that "guys only listen to other guys"; with regards of how to do something, or in forming an opinion.

This has mostly been my experience, too.

I think I've still tried in vain over the years to communicate about things I feel real strongly about. He either doesn't listen [the worst is when he turns up the volume on the TV with the remote when I'm talking]; or I trust that he is listening --- but then later I realize he wasn't [by his total lack of recall of that conversation].

He is so disrespectful to do that, intheory. How can you stand that?

So I don't try to influence him about anything anymore. I can't remember when I foundered and gave up.

So sorry to hear this. :(

The only possible exception is I insist on preparing him a 2x daily regimen of vitamins/herbs. He constantly laughs/ridicules it.

So sorry he does not respect and appreciate your caring. Again, don't know how you stand it.

I guess I "stonewall" (?) now. I keep doing it and ignore his comments.

I have thought about giving up doing this. Then he can let his lack of exercise, crummy diet and avoidance of my food supplementation take their natural course.

But then, if he died, you would miss his companionship (and financial support?). Many women feel similarly trapped.

We did lower his borderline high blood pressure "naturally", but that was only because a male acquaintance affirmed what I said and told him to get his blood pressure regulated naturally and avoid the pharmaceuticals as long as possible.

Very foolish on his part not to listen to you. Textbook case of what Gottmann describes.

He has no music, in his vast collection, of any female musicians.

He is missing out.


jld - what is that recipe for the natural gum rinse? I'm always looking for new ways to clean my teeth and gums.

A pinch of salt, a little bit (maybe half teaspoon) hydrogen peroxide, and enough baking soda and water to make a paste. Use like toothpaste. For gum repair, let sit on gums for ten minutes after brushing, morning and evening, until healed.
 
#55 ·
It is sad that a lot of men can't just understand this message.

If someone presents me with a lot of research showing that women are more likely to:

nag
whine
b*tch
gossip
talk more
be lazier
etc.....

Just because I may feel like I don't do those things, I'm not going to say it isn't true on an average. And in fact, it would prompt me to look at myself to work on any of those issues above (though I pulled them from thin air, they may or may not be true I don't know, but if they were, I would look at myself).

Of course there are plenty of women who don't want to hear what part of marriage problems they contribute the most to. And those who refuse self help, those who are cruel, those who do NOT accept influence from their husbands, those who are cheaters....on and on.

But on average, we have a known list of behaviors that are harmful to marriage that men do *more often* (which doesn't mean women do NOT do them)...and it is telling that this list is rejected by some men, even though it isn't up for negotiation whether the research is accurate or not.

The research doesn't tell us WHY men are more prone to certain behaviors, we can only speculate on that. IMO, for the purposes of the marriage books Gottman wrote, the why is irrelevant.

"Well, I don't that so meh, I don't buy it" is exactly the behavior that is hi-lighted in the research.

I can say straight up that my husband clearly doesn't think that what I think has as much validity as what he thinks. Generally speaking, most men seem to be like this to me. Male privilege is real, and this is part of it....the idea that you are superior and so is your thinking. I'm not saying most men are huge jerks, not at all. Most men don't even realize these thoughts are deep beneath their thought processes, or that's how it seems anyway. My husband does not consciously realize this, but it is evident to me every day.

Women tend to tip toe around stuff like this and try to influence their men in whatever way they can. SOME women will never accept that type of influence, I get that, too. SOME men are far TOO influenced by their women and can't think on their own.
 
#65 ·
I can say straight up that my husband clearly doesn't think that what I think has as much validity as what he thinks. Generally speaking, most men seem to be like this to me. Male privilege is real, and this is part of it....the idea that you are superior and so is your thinking. I'm not saying most men are huge jerks, not at all. Most men don't even realize these thoughts are deep beneath their thought processes, or that's how it seems anyway.
Again, total BS.

I see far more of the opposite of that.

But we both have confirmation bias. It's part of the human condition.
 
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