General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Listened to a lengthy discussion on a local radio program on the way to work yesterday. They were talking about the concept of closure when it comes to a relationship ending.
The arguments were interesting.
The pervading belief was that the partner claiming they wanted 'closure' didn't actually want closure, they were looking for a way to hang onto the relationship, that the other partner was clearly expressing a desire to end.
For those that did not feel closure was necessary, their attitude was: "You have told me everything you need to, by indicating it's not working for you."
For those that did want closure, it seemed to lead to questions ... which led to more questions. "Why? Did I do something wrong? What happened? You want to throw everything away? What could I do differently? I don't understand?"
The talks acknowledged that for a short term relationship (which they put at 2 years or less) there just isn't a lot to talk about, versus long term relationships, some discussion or consideration is probably in order, but that doesn't mean 'closure'.
The consensus also was that closure usually was not 'good'. They felt that asking for closure was inviting someone to hurt you by pointing out why they are rejecting you.
So? What is closure to you? Do you need it? Did you get it? Did it help? Did it hurt?
Listened to a lengthy discussion on a local radio program on the way to work yesterday. They were talking about the concept of closure when it comes to a relationship ending.
The arguments were interesting.
The pervading belief was that the partner claiming they wanted 'closure' didn't actually want closure, they were looking for a way to hang onto the relationship, that the other partner was clearly expressing a desire to end.
For those that did not feel closure was necessary, their attitude was: "You have told me everything you need to, by indicating it's not working for you."
For those that did want closure, it seemed to lead to questions ... which led to more questions. "Why? Did I do something wrong? What happened? You want to throw everything away? What could I do differently? I don't understand?"
The talks acknowledged that for a short term relationship (which they put at 2 years or less) there just isn't a lot to talk about, versus long term relationships, some discussion or consideration is probably in order, but that doesn't mean 'closure'.
The consensus also was that closure usually was not 'good'. They felt that asking for closure was inviting someone to hurt you by pointing out why they are rejecting you.
So? What is closure to you? Do you need it? Did you get it? Did it help? Did it hurt?
So true that closure isn't what it is chalked up to be. More often then not, it is a way to reel someone back in out of a sense of guilt or obligation to let the other down easier.
I don't know if anybody actually gets closure. Things just get easier as time goes by. The heart hurts less, the pain numbs a bit, the memories become a little more distant.
What most people mean when they say "closure" - mutually laying the relationship to rest by answering all the dangling questions - is nonsense.
True closure is simply ending that chapter of your life and moving on.
I thought I wanted "closure" many years ago when my gf dumped me. We continued to have contact, made easier on her part by her having viewed our three years together as nothing major, so I continued to feel the need for "closure" while alternately thinking we might get back together. I reached the brink of suicide, and let her know that, without hearing from her by a certain date, I wouldn't be waking up the next morning. A timely call from a friend (who couldn't have known my intentions) when I was expecting the gf's call got my head screwed on straight.
But, I realized that she had, effectively, let me die.
Obviously closure has different meanings. Since I was the "dumped" spouse in a long-term marriage, closure had something to do with coming to terms with rejection. My attorney unknowingly provided that closure a few weeks back.
Since my husband was behind with his spousal/child support payments, a contempt of court hearing was held. My divorce attorney decided to call my estranged husband's live-in girlfriend as a witness to the hearing. The girlfriend is the one that goes all the way back to 2006--off and on. She is 20 years younger than my estranged husband. She doesn't work and is basically a "Sugar Baby". Therefore, my attorney decided to show the judge why my estranged husband wasn't making his scheduled appointments--and where his priorities were.
I remember how nervous I was sitting in the court waiting area that morning. I would finally be face to face with the OW. I would finally see what I finished second place to. But, when she appeared in the judge's chamber, I finally breathed a sigh of relief. Although she is only 27, she looked much older. She was very disheveled and down right unattractive. She wouldn't even look at me. She actually had tears in her eyes. And when asked to speak, she showed her immaturity and lack of intelligence.
It's hard to explain, but something came over me--a sense of tranquility. After the judge dismissed the hearing, my attorney pulled me to the side and told me I had that woman beat in every category. He also stated that he was now certain my husband is an idiot. From that moment on, I let go of the rejection and knew (in my heart) I was not second best any longer. I almost felt sorry for the OW. If that's closure, I'll take it and move on.....
I think everyone wants closure when a relationship ends. In some way or form. And sometimes that closure is knowing you may never get closure. If you can embrace that...you're golden.
For everyone, it's different. For a long time I searched for some sort of closure before my divorce, hell, maybe even after, but I realize now, it wasn't any one thing. It was just accepting the fact it was really truly over. There was no magic word, no explaination from both sides, no right for the wrongs. It just was...over.
Even when I signed the decree it didn't feel real. I guess maybe I agree there is no such tangible thing as "closure" but who knows.
i think if you cant stand face to face with someone and tell them exactly how you feel then you are a flat out coward. i would much rather take all the hurt at one time and just get it over with than to drag it out like my wife is doing to me. i was advised that maybe my wife was asking for this space to simply let me down easy because she knows how much i do love her. AND I DO. but closure is one thing and just putting someone through unnecassary bs is another. if she wants it to be over then tell me. if she want this time and space because she truly wants to work on it, then tell me.and show me that u want to work on it. dont play this damn game of I AM HIDING MY FEELINGS FROM YOU BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WANT TO KNOW. in other words. stop being an immature brat and lets get down to it.
I wonder if it’s closure that people look for or if it’s “letting go” so they can move on? Or are they both the same thing?
While we were separating my wife sent me an email telling of her appreciation of some of the things I’d done for her when her brother and father had passed away some seven years previous and for some other things. The email was very detailed, she’d obviously had it in her mind over the years ever since the events occurred. I asked her why she’s thanking me now and didn’t thank me at the time I did those things and her answer was “for her closure”. Does that mean she’d deliberately withheld her appreciation (which is what I suspect as she knew just how much appreciation meant to me) and was feeling guilty about it? or does it mean she was looking to get me back? I’ll never know which doesn’t bother me much.
I’ve wanted “closure”. And I’ve thought we’d need 10 to 20 hours with an MC to get that closure. Which to me meant talking about and resolving unresolved issues that went back over some 40 years. I also thought if we could do that then maybe, just maybe, we could get back together again. But one of my wife’s biggest problems is her lack of emotional honesty so I knew I’d never get to the “truth” and without truth there’s nothing.
So I think in essence the article Deejo refers to is correct. My wife seemed to be eternally 50/50 about our marriage. She was seriously conflicted never knowing if she wanted to stay in it or get out of it. And I think because of that, once she was “out” she tried in a little way to get back in with her “closure story” by showing she loved me by giving me the appreciation she knew I needed to feel loved by her. She also tried very subtly to get back in in another way.
I on the other hand was always 100% committed to my wife. I’d always go the last mile, leave no stone unturned in times of trouble. I never thought we’d be apart, separated and heading for divorce. But once I’d given my wife my ultimatums then there was absolutely nothing, nada, zilch she could do to get back with me unless she addressed my ultimatums. I’m still the same way today in these things as I was 18 months ago.
But after 18 months I still haven’t got closure. I wake up in the morning thinking on how much I hate her and go to bed with the same thoughts. It’s nowhere near as bad now though as it was at the beginning. And in the big pot of thoughts and emotions I also have all the good emotions created by memories of being together for 42 years. It’s not easy this stuff. It was just the other day I realised that now I’m separated I’m still massively linked to my wife or stbxw as much with my hatred of her as I was with my love for her. And that’s why I posted the following recently:
A step by step guide to installing love on the human machine.
Customer: I can do that. I’m not very technical, but I think I am ready to install now. What do I do first?
Tech Support: The first step is to open your HEART. Have you located your HEART ma’am?
Customer: Yes I have, but there are several programs running right now. Is it okay to install while they are running?
Tech Support: What programs are running ma’am?
Customer: Let me see… I have PASTHURT.EXE, LOWESTEEM.EXE, GRUDGE.EXE, and RESENTMENT.COM running right now.
Tech Support: No problem. LOVE will automatically erase PASTHURT.EXE from your current operating system. It may remain in your permanent memory, but it will no longer disrupt other programs. LOVE will eventually overwrite LOWESTEEM.EXE with a module of its own called HIGHESTEEM.EXE However, you have to completely turn off GRUDGE.EXE and RESENTMENT.COM. Those programs prevent LOVE from being properly installed. Can you turn those off ma’am?
Customer: I don’t know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?
Tech Support: My pleasure. Go to your Start menu and invoke FORGIVENESS.EXE. Do this as many times as necessary until GRUDGE.EXE and RESENTMENT.COM have been completely erased.
Customer: Okay, I’m done. LOVE has started installing itself automatically. Is that normal?
Tech Support: Yes it is. You should receive a message that says it will reinstall for the life of your HEART. Do you see that message?
Customer: Yes I do. Is it completely installed?
Tech Support: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program. You need to begin connecting to other HEARTS in order to get the upgrades.
Customer: Oops…I have an error message already. What should I do?
Tech Support: What does the message say?
Customer: It says “ERROR 412 – PROGRAM NOT RUN ON INTERNAL COMPONENTS”. What does that mean?
Tech Support: Don’t worry ma’am, that’s a common problem. It means that the LOVE program is set up to run on external HEARTS but has not yet been run on your HEART. It is one of those complicated programming things, but in non-technical terms it means – “you have to ‘LOVE’ your own machine before it can “LOVE” others.”
Customer: So what should I do?
Tech Support: Can you find the directory called “SELF-ACCEPTANCE”?
Customer: Yes, I have it.
Tech Support: Excellent, you are getting good at this.
Customer: Thank you.
Tech Support : You’re welcome. Click on the following files and then copy them to the “MYHEART” directory: FORGIVESELF.DOC, SELFESTEEM.TXT, REALIZEWORTH.TXT, and GOODNESS.DOC. The system will overwrite any conflicting files and begin patching any faulty programming. Also, you need to delete SELFCRITIC.EXE from all directories, and then empty your recycle bin afterwards to make sure it is completely gone and never comes back.
Customer: Got it. Hey! My HEART is filling up with really neat files. SMILE.MPG is playing on my monitor right now and it shows that WARMTH.COM, PEACE.EXE, and CONTENTMENT.COM are copying themselves all over my HEART!
Tech Support: Then LOVE is installed and running. You should be able to handle it from here. One more thing before I go
Customer: Yes?
Tech Support: LOVE is freeware. Be sure to give it and its various modules to everybody you meet. They will in turn share it with other people and they will return some really neat modules back to you.
Customer: I will. Thank you for your help.
Now every time I get thoughts of hatred and dislike about my stbxw I replace them with “I forgive you Xxxxxxx”. This does seem to be working as I do seem to be making room for other things in my “thinking time”, that is my negative thoughts about my stbxw which trigger negative emotions are being replaced with positive thoughts which are triggering positive emotions.
I believe that eventually our thoughts of the past are replaced with our thoughts of the present and future. That we “become lost” in these thoughts and so slowly but surely we get closure, or at least to a point where we are more or less fully functional “in the present”. Thoughts of the past never disappear, they do though go into long term memory and it feels as though they are forgotten. But there will always be triggers and there will probably always be times when we deliberately go back in time in our mind to recall some of those truly wonderful times from years gone by. And I think in that regard, we never ever get 100% of closure. It just gets “better” over time and the more proactive we are about making it better, the less time is needed.
I think we all want "closure" in our lives. If we interviewed and didn't get a job, if we had a relationship that your significant other wanted out, a friendship breaks up, etc... we all have the question "Why?"
In these situations, hopefully the answer we get leads to an improvement... better interviewing skills, improving your relationship skills, better awareness of how your actions may affect others.
But closure can't be looking for justification of others' actions.
i think if you cant stand face to face with someone and tell them exactly how you feel then you are a flat out coward. i would much rather take all the hurt at one time and just get it over with than to drag it out like my wife is doing to me. i was advised that maybe my wife was asking for this space to simply let me down easy because she knows how much i do love her. AND I DO. but closure is one thing and just putting someone through unnecassary bs is another. if she wants it to be over then tell me. if she want this time and space because she truly wants to work on it, then tell me.and show me that u want to work on it. dont play this damn game of I AM HIDING MY FEELINGS FROM YOU BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WANT TO KNOW. in other words. stop being an immature brat and lets get down to it.
I wonder if it’s closure that people look for or if it’s “letting go” so they can move on? Or are they both the same thing?
While we were separating my wife sent me an email telling of her appreciation of some of the things I’d done for her when her brother and father had passed away some seven years previous and for some other things. The email was very detailed, she’d obviously had it in her mind over the years ever since the events occurred. I asked her why she’s thanking me now and didn’t thank me at the time I did those things and her answer was “for her closure”. Does that mean she’d deliberately withheld her appreciation (which is what I suspect as she knew just how much appreciation meant to me) and was feeling guilty about it? or does it mean she was looking to get me back? I’ll never know which doesn’t bother me much.
I’ve wanted “closure”. And I’ve thought we’d need 10 to 20 hours with an MC to get that closure. Which to me meant talking about and resolving unresolved issues that went back over some 40 years. I also thought if we could do that then maybe, just maybe, we could get back together again. But one of my wife’s biggest problems is her lack of emotional honesty so I knew I’d never get to the “truth” and without truth there’s nothing.
So I think in essence the article Deejo refers to is correct. My wife seemed to be eternally 50/50 about our marriage. She was seriously conflicted never knowing if she wanted to stay in it or get out of it. And I think because of that, once she was “out” she tried in a little way to get back in with her “closure story” by showing she loved me by giving me the appreciation she knew I needed to feel loved by her. She also tried very subtly to get back in in another way.
I on the other hand was always 100% committed to my wife. I’d always go the last mile, leave no stone unturned in times of trouble. I never thought we’d be apart, separated and heading for divorce. But once I’d given my wife my ultimatums then there was absolutely nothing, nada, zilch she could do to get back with me unless she addressed my ultimatums. I’m still the same way today in these things as I was 18 months ago.
But after 18 months I still haven’t got closure. I wake up in the morning thinking on how much I hate her and go to bed with the same thoughts. It’s nowhere near as bad now though as it was at the beginning. And in the big pot of thoughts and emotions I also have all the good emotions created by memories of being together for 42 years. It’s not easy this stuff. It was just the other day I realised that now I’m separated I’m still massively linked to my wife or stbxw as much with my hatred of her as I was with my love for her. And that’s why I posted the following recently:
A step by step guide to installing love on the human machine.
Customer: I can do that. I’m not very technical, but I think I am ready to install now. What do I do first?
Tech Support: The first step is to open your HEART. Have you located your HEART ma’am?
Customer: Yes I have, but there are several programs running right now. Is it okay to install while they are running?
Tech Support: What programs are running ma’am?
Customer: Let me see… I have PASTHURT.EXE, LOWESTEEM.EXE, GRUDGE.EXE, and RESENTMENT.COM running right now.
Tech Support: No problem. LOVE will automatically erase PASTHURT.EXE from your current operating system. It may remain in your permanent memory, but it will no longer disrupt other programs. LOVE will eventually overwrite LOWESTEEM.EXE with a module of its own called HIGHESTEEM.EXE However, you have to completely turn off GRUDGE.EXE and RESENTMENT.COM. Those programs prevent LOVE from being properly installed. Can you turn those off ma’am?
Customer: I don’t know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?
Tech Support: My pleasure. Go to your Start menu and invoke FORGIVENESS.EXE. Do this as many times as necessary until GRUDGE.EXE and RESENTMENT.COM have been completely erased.
Customer: Okay, I’m done. LOVE has started installing itself automatically. Is that normal?
Tech Support: Yes it is. You should receive a message that says it will reinstall for the life of your HEART. Do you see that message?
Customer: Yes I do. Is it completely installed?
Tech Support: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program. You need to begin connecting to other HEARTS in order to get the upgrades.
Customer: Oops…I have an error message already. What should I do?
Tech Support: What does the message say?
Customer: It says “ERROR 412 – PROGRAM NOT RUN ON INTERNAL COMPONENTS”. What does that mean?
Tech Support: Don’t worry ma’am, that’s a common problem. It means that the LOVE program is set up to run on external HEARTS but has not yet been run on your HEART. It is one of those complicated programming things, but in non-technical terms it means – “you have to ‘LOVE’ your own machine before it can “LOVE” others.”
Customer: So what should I do?
Tech Support: Can you find the directory called “SELF-ACCEPTANCE”?
Customer: Yes, I have it.
Tech Support: Excellent, you are getting good at this.
Customer: Thank you.
Tech Support : You’re welcome. Click on the following files and then copy them to the “MYHEART” directory: FORGIVESELF.DOC, SELFESTEEM.TXT, REALIZEWORTH.TXT, and GOODNESS.DOC. The system will overwrite any conflicting files and begin patching any faulty programming. Also, you need to delete SELFCRITIC.EXE from all directories, and then empty your recycle bin afterwards to make sure it is completely gone and never comes back.
Customer: Got it. Hey! My HEART is filling up with really neat files. SMILE.MPG is playing on my monitor right now and it shows that WARMTH.COM, PEACE.EXE, and CONTENTMENT.COM are copying themselves all over my HEART!
Tech Support: Then LOVE is installed and running. You should be able to handle it from here. One more thing before I go
Customer: Yes?
Tech Support: LOVE is freeware. Be sure to give it and its various modules to everybody you meet. They will in turn share it with other people and they will return some really neat modules back to you.
Customer: I will. Thank you for your help.
Now every time I get thoughts of hatred and dislike about my stbxw I replace them with “I forgive you Xxxxxxx”. This does seem to be working as I do seem to be making room for other things in my “thinking time”, that is my negative thoughts about my stbxw which trigger negative emotions are being replaced with positive thoughts which are triggering positive emotions.
I believe that eventually our thoughts of the past are replaced with our thoughts of the present and future. That we “become lost” in these thoughts and so slowly but surely we get closure, or at least to a point where we are more or less fully functional “in the present”. Thoughts of the past never disappear, they do though go into long term memory and it feels as though they are forgotten. But there will always be triggers and there will probably always be times when we deliberately go back in time in our mind to recall some of those truly wonderful times from years gone by. And I think in that regard, we never ever get 100% of closure. It just gets “better” over time and the more proactive we are about making it better, the less time is needed.
I think we all want "closure" in our lives. If we interviewed and didn't get a job, if we had a relationship that your significant other wanted out, a friendship breaks up, etc... we all have the question "Why?"
In these situations, hopefully the answer we get leads to an improvement... better interviewing skills, improving your relationship skills, better awareness of how your actions may affect others.
But closure can't be looking for justification of others' actions.
If only I can accept what you said in your last sentence.
After 28 years, I am having a tough time.
Closure 
