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Stereotyping /Generalizing -Why we DO it - how to avoid hurting....what Inflames YOU?

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#1 ·
I am having an awful time trying to lay this topic out.. before coming to this forum.. I never THOUGHT about these things.. still learning as I go...

So often in posts here...if it isn't the grammar police, it may be the "Generalizing" police / someone is accused of "stereotyping"...just speaking out of our own experiences, the slip of a word...most of us are smart enough to not use "ALL" when speaking of another gender!....but are still corrected....we've offended ...

When this is taken too far.. I feel it renders us so Politically correct we loose any flavor, leaving us near "walking on egg shells" with our words...

The Human race naturally "generalizes" (was reading a # of articles, this is the consensus at least 50% of the time anyway.. lengthy article but I feel this is the reality for most of us -IF we can admit it.... Where Bias Begins: The Truth About Stereotypes -Stereotyping is not limited to those who are biased. We all use stereotypes all the time. They are a kind of mental shortcut.

For me, it's NEVER NEVER NEVER meant to speak there is no exceptions ....if we have to note, dissect every variation, every possible exception with our speech adding a
to every idea that comes forth in discussion.. we would be conversationally paralyzed!!

Yrs ago, I read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"..so many things the author said in his chapter on MEN were NOT TRUE of my husband - (he's never needed a cave, never cared about sports/ that whole competition thing....pages devoted to this.. sometimes people just DON'T fit the typical norms...but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed...articles written, experiences given/ books devoted to those who may fit that... it's all good!



According to Pamela Rutledge, the director of the Media Psychology Research Center ...she says Generalizations are neither good nor bad. Instead, they are "useful".

“Stereotyping is a way of processing information,” she said. “It’s a way to take something that’s not familiar and put it in your brain next to something that makes sense. People make mental models all the time, and the first one is usually inaccurate.”

She explained that stereotypes form out of a necessity to quickly sort and interpret the barrage of data that we’re hit with every day. We organize people into categories based on appearance (also gender, age, marital status, education, wealth, occupation, religion, race, weight, and community. ) because it’s fast and easy. It’s like the Cliff’s Notes of mental processes.

Obviously, the key is to go back to that hastily sketched mental model whenever possible and examine the components more carefully. A generalization works is a temporary, umbrella-like idea , but to really interpret accurate information, it’ll take more time.
The problem comes when people assume that stereotypes are facts - stereotypes/generalizations only give good indications of probabilities, and as long as you're always aware of the possibility that this situation is an edge-case where the "general rule" doesn't apply, there's no harm in it.

In our touchy-feely, inclusive, non-discriminatory society it's become deeply un-trendy to stereotype or generalize. People feel that because stereotypes have been over-used, or used to excuse discrimination or bigotry, there must be something inherently wrong with stereotyping. This is itself stereotyping !

What people really disapprove of are:

* Unfair generalizations
* People mistaking statistical guidelines for hard facts.

What keeps stereotyping from prejudice...is being Open Minded...understand we are all multifaceted -regardless of the circles we hang in...take time to get to know people as individuals.. not automatically judging a book by it's "cover" or the label another slapped on ....
..and it helps to just
when we don't FEEL or see things through the same lenses..(we won't all choose a similar lifestyle, we will gravitate to like minded people where we feel accepted /understood )... the world is BIG & vast enough for us all, and our diversity.

Just your thoughts on this complex issue..

Can you see HOW/ WHY people do this.. do you feel you are above this in your daily life / interactions / words when talking to others ??

When you hear the descriptions below ..is there no categorizing going on...what is relateable to You/ what is rebuffed ? are you always fair & Balanced...an open slate to invite someone new into your group.. It would be nice if the world worked like this.. but I sure do not see it...

CEO / blue collar worker.... conservative / liberal.... Alpha male / Beta male ...Mother in law/ Stay at Home Mother .... Gamer... sports enthusiast...Gym rat...Politician/ Lawyer / Preacher ... Feminist / Pick up artist / Traditionalist.... Bad Boy/ Nice Guy.... Christian / Atheist... low drive / high drive.... city dwellers / country folk ...Rappers.. the Kardashians /the Duggars , etc etc etc
Your thoughts on this :FIREdevil: topic...Have you been hurt by unfair generalizations, wrongly stereotyped ...and it BURNS you? Let us listen and hopefully do better with our communication and understanding of our differences..
 
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#5 ·
Sometimes. However, sometimes things that were once "Politically Incorrect" are commonsense now. Two quick examples:
  • "It is OK for people of different colors to get married"
  • "Women can be good wives and have a career."

Granted, there is still a fair number who don't believe either of these. However, the vast majority do. But both are fairly new, only coming into mainstream acceptance within say, the last 30-40ish years?

My point being- past experience is a good predictor for an individual but not always very good at big societal trends. Another example: In 2015 it is PC to speak carefully about gay people, but the kids born today will likely not even blink at a wedding between gay people. It will be commonplace.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I have a problems with stereotyping and generalization when they come from people too ignorant, stupid or malicious to understand that:

A. Exceptions are the rule
B. Even confirmed stereotypes are but one layer of a complex whole

As you mention if you're willing to go forth with an open mind, and a respect for the perspective of others, it's all good. Be willing to admit when you're wrong and acknowledge that no generalization tells a complete story, even if seemingly valid. We all generalize, but I don't believe any of us should be married to our generalizations.

It's those people too narrow of focus, or too obsessed with the supposed rightness of their own myopic view, that are the problem.

an open slate to invite someone new into your group.. It would be nice if the world worked like this.. but I sure do not see it...
That's how my world works. Cast your eyes across the plain of people I'm intimately connected with and you'll find a massive variety. I discovered a very long time ago that most human beings have more in common than our perceived differences. If you practice connecting to that deeper sameness you get use to discovering, time and again, how much the same we are. You also get the beautiful of exposure to differences, which is always good form my perspective. While many people like a life filled with human mirrors that just reflect back themselves, I can think of few things less boring and unpalatable.

Personally not one part of me is interested in building a life with people who are just like me.
 
#9 ·
I have a problem with stereotyping and generalization when they come from people too ignorant, stupid or malicious to understand that:

A. Exceptions are the rule
B. Even confirmed stereotypes are but one layer of a complex whole

As you mention if you're willing to go forth with an open mind, and a respect for the perspective of others, it's all good. Be willing to admit when you're wrong and acknowledge that no generalization tells a complete story, even if seemingly valid. We all generalize, but I don't believe any of us should be married to our generalizations.

It's those people too narrow of focus, or too obsessed with the supposed rightness of their own myopic view, that are the problem.
I THINK as you described here... which I was trying to lay out.... I have always gleamed from your posts/ experiences.... you appear a pretty OPEN MINDED guy.. who enjoys & HAS enjoyed a wide range of friends in your lifetime... diverse personalities.... and have learned from them, as they have learned from you.. (as it should be! :smthumbup:)

Being humble to admit where we missed it.. it's HUGE.. I bought a book many yrs ago on the value of "Humility".. I don't see it as a weakness as much as others commonly do.. but more a sign of strength & authenticity.

Yeah...I have even told people I met ...once I got to know them better.. what my 1st impressions might have been...we can laugh about it... I've always been one OPEN to learn of others.. I'm a naturally curious person, it's not to HANG them with it... but to honestly see where people are coming from, what has shaped them, what motivates them.. it all fascinates me.. and often such stories are inspiring in themselves.. all this is well & good with friends.. may not work in a marriage so much.. but friends.. Oh yeah!@#

There are some things I REBUFF though... anyone who doesn't seem "SAFE" ... always the question in the back of my mind is >> could this person harm me, my family, cause undue trouble (drug addicts, anyone with a criminal record who was NOT innocent, if one too many screws seem loose, etc ).. we make judgments all the time.. we have to..

That's how my world works. Cast your eyes across the plain of people I'm intimately connected with and you'll find a massive variety. I discovered a very long time ago that most human beings have more in common than our perceived differences. If you practice connecting to that deeper sameness you get use to discovering, time and again, how much the same we are. You also get the beautiful of exposure to differences, which is always good form my perspective. While many people like a life filled with human mirrors that just reflect back themselves, I can think of few things less boring and unpalatable.

Personally not one part of me is interested in building a life with people who are just like me.
The massive variety is pretty impressive.. since we live down in a hole in the boonies.. I can't say we get out that much to meet wide varieties of people... though it's something I am OPEN to . when out & about.. and here on forums.. I learn a lot!

Well explained here Jaquen ... your words are similar to mine (below)....

12 + yrs ago... I slowly lost my religion... this went on for like 9 months.. as this was happening.. I penned my thoughts/ struggles ...like debating myself on some of the conflicting messages (so I felt) some scriptures contained.. I could never get past them... which has helped me see where others are coming from...I've ALWAYS been one who WANTS to know why.. hear that other side.. never one to shut it out.... I read books & listen to commentators who take the opposing view purposely ... this helps me broaden my mind...to get better perspective ...it challenges me!! I want that!#$%... I have changed my views over the years in a # of areas.... no desire to be rigid.. but Open, "reasonably" pliable in all things...

In that writing to myself 12 yrs ago... I ended it saying quote >> "To me, it matters not what anyone believes, because if their belief makes/helps/uplifts them to be that better person/that good example to mankind & more helpful to society as a whole in this crazy selfish world, then I say .... "Live and let be", cause I think we all have MORE in common than NOT in common if we could just look beyond our "Creeds".
 
#4 ·
Good evening all
It is natural for human brains to look for patterns - it is in some ways the essence of rational thought. At the same time we need to be on the guard against forming unfair patterns based on partial information.

Where I think stereotyping causes the most problems in discussions is where someone feels "accused" of some terrible behavior based on their inclusion in a group.

So a statement "surveys show that men will rape women if they think they can get away with it", will immediately cause me to react. It is suggesting that I, as a man, would commit what I, as an individual, think is a horrible crime. Changing to "surveys show that many men ...." fixes that.

It may seem trivial, but I think the qualifier is critically important. "Women bait and switch in marriage, cutting off sex as soon as they get a ring on their fingers" - accuses *all* women of deceptive behavior, and a woman remaining silent may be assumed to be agreeing. Changing to "some women...." stops this from being an attack on all women.

Sensitivity to words is part of language ,and occurs on all sorts of places. Imagine you are sitting on the sofa with a cat on your lap. Telling your spouse "get me a glass of water" seems so much ruder, than "could you please get me a glass of water , I have a cat on my lap". The slight wording change makes all the difference.

So, rather than saying "stop posting inflammatory things", I will instead say "I hope posters will think about how readers may misinterpret their words as attacks and adjust their posts accordingly".
 
#10 · (Edited)
Good evening all
It is natural for human brains to look for patterns - it is in some ways the essence of rational thought. At the same time we need to be on the guard against forming unfair patterns based on partial information.

Where I think stereotyping causes the most problems in discussions is where someone feels "accused" of some terrible behavior based on their inclusion in a group.
This happens often enough if one uses a term to express a part of themselves /what "camp" they feel they are most comfortable in.. when I hear the term Feminist.... I have to hold back thoughts of "radical", my next wonder is -how much this person may be against more Traditional ideals like mine...do they look down on SAHM's & find us lazy eating bon bons, foolish & holding back their movement .... just as I am sure ..on the other side...others who hear me refer to myself as "older fashioned" conjures up thoughts that I am trying to repress women, hold them back or I think all families should go back to living like "the Waltons"

....even though, yeah.. I find this show very lovely, we still watch it some nights...myself & Husband , it does not offend me in any way.... we enjoy the plots.. and the lessons often learned ...it was a "simpler" time , I much enjoy the "nostalgia" of it all..

So a statement "surveys show that men will rape women if they think they can get away with it", will immediately cause me to react. It is suggesting that I, as a man, would commit what I, as an individual, think is a horrible crime. Changing to "surveys show that many men ...." fixes that.
Of course you would react.. that's SO NOT true for any GOOD MAN with well intentions.. he would NEVER conduct himself in that matter.. regardless of who would never find out, or take it to his grave.. some of us like to look in the mirror every day..

Being horny doesn't always = take what you can get.

It may seem trivial, but I think the qualifier is critically important. "Women bait and switch in marriage, cutting off sex as soon as they get a ring on their fingers" - accuses *all* women of deceptive behavior, and a woman remaining silent may be assumed to be agreeing. Changing to "some women...." stops this from being an attack on all women.
Yes... it makes all the difference in how something is said.. kinda like the "You vs I" statements in communication.. this alone could do wonders for a marriage..



Using "SOME" more often, this will help.. these are worthy subjects.. if we are careful to give them the proper context in how often these things DO happen.. it shouldn't be an offense to anyone who's not guilty of this...they would be right behind us in how CRINGE-worthy & hurtful the behavior is..

Sensitivity to words is part of language ,and occurs on all sorts of places. Imagine you are sitting on the sofa with a cat on your lap. Telling your spouse "get me a glass of water" seems so much ruder, than "could you please get me a glass of water , I have a cat on my lap". The slight wording change makes all the difference.
I have "given attitude" rushed telling my husband on Thanksgiving (yrs ago now)...his parents coming in a few minutes to vacuum ..... he told me "NO! "..added he didn't like my attitude".. He was right !.. I kissed him for that.. (love the truth) - I deserved it...then he happily did it for me. ;)

So, rather than saying "stop posting inflammatory things", I will instead say "I hope posters will think about how readers may misinterpret their words as attacks and adjust their posts accordingly".
Always a KIND poster Richardsharpe....here is an emoticon for you
.
 
#6 ·
I am a pretty non-mainstream thinker in the internet world, but pretty mainstream within my own demographic. For that reason, other than negative racial stereotyping I'm not really that bothered by other stereotyping. It seems to me that people stereotype out of their life experiences so in the TAM world I pretty much shake my head, once in awhile post a response or two and move on.

However I do learn a lot from some TAM posters and as long as their viewpoints don't conflict with my values I will consider it and sometimes change my way of thinking. I like non mainstream thinkers who challenge my viewpoints in a respectful way. Some of these posters have been really helpful in causing me to rethink some of my stereotyping. JLD is one such poster. I don't always agree with her but gosh does she make me think and sometimes change the way I think.

Other posters are so disrespectful, condescending and judgmental in their approach that I often wonder what their purpose is in posting. Common sense would dictate that the average person would not receive a word of what they are saying because of the presentation. But I guess they are so puffed up in their superiority complex that they are unable to discern the uselessness of their bloviating.

SA it seems like negative stereotyping and generalizations really bother you? Are you a peacemaker at heart or do you just want to be understood? I personally have so much appreciation for you as a TAM poster but I have to admit I wish it didn't bother you so much when people don't feel the way you feel about certain things. Although I know a lot of people don't agree with your views (I mostly do)I don't think anyone could dispute that you always present them in a thoughtful and respectful manner. So you have nothing to prove. Your internet character speaks for itself and conversely so does the character of your bashers.
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#18 ·
I am a pretty non-mainstream thinker in the internet world, but pretty mainstream within my own demographic. For that reason, other than negative racial stereotyping I'm not really that bothered by other stereotyping. It seems to me that people stereotype out of their life experiences so in the TAM world I pretty much shake my head, once in awhile post a response or two and move on.

However I do learn a lot from some TAM posters and as long as their viewpoints don't conflict with my values I will consider it and sometimes change my way of thinking. I like non mainstream thinkers who challenge my viewpoints in a respectful way. Some of these posters have been really helpful in causing me to rethink some of my stereotyping. JLD is one such poster. I don't always agree with her but gosh does she make me think and sometimes change the way I think.
JLD can be a hammer at times.. or more of a digger...(bold on the forum!)..ha ha ... but boy is she a sweet lady in real life.... You are not the 1st to feel this way, she's annoyed some, then wham.. she had an impact on them -in a GOOD WAY, helpful ... I think it's pretty cool !!

She's helped ME see the other side in some things , where it just wasn't my experiences so much...isn't that what we are supposed to do/ what friends DO....share.. and learn from each other...

Our husbands are so far removed from each other in a few areas ... that if I came to her way of thinking. I might loose attraction for my own husband!@#
.. this wouldn't be good... we can crack jokes about our differences and almost fall off the chair laughing about it...
I love that...

Other posters are so disrespectful, condescending and judgmental in their approach that I often wonder what their purpose is in posting. Common sense would dictate that the average person would not receive a word of what they are saying because of the presentation. But I guess they are so puffed up in their superiority complex that they are unable to discern the uselessness of their bloviating.
that's a new word for me...Bloviating = "To discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner"...

SA it seems like negative stereotyping and generalizations really bother you? Are you a peacemaker at heart or do you just want to be understood?
Let's see.. being rather UN-politically correct.. NO.. I want people to speak as they feel.. even if it stings.. I think what you see here is.. I tend to wear my
on my sleeve.. Oh it's not the wisest way to be.. I don't seem to mind it though... it's who I am. I have a "tough as nails side" .. so being soft is good for me !

I've thought of doing a thread on THIS subject for a while now.. just wasn't sure how to present it.. I wish Samyeagar would pop in... it was one of his posts a while back where he explained it very well.. how it's common to DO THIS.. it's like what he said was the same thing I read in so many of these articles..

I notice it often...people correcting / accusing others of doing it.. sometimes it is JUSTIFIED, because a hurtful line was crossed (many of us can FEEL that -like Richard's post pointed out) .. sometimes not so much... it's controversial !

I personally have so much appreciation for you as a TAM poster but I have to admit I wish it didn't bother you so much when people don't feel the way you feel about certain things. Although I know a lot of people don't agree with your views (I mostly do)I don't think anyone could dispute that you always present them in a thoughtful and respectful manner. So you have nothing to prove. Your internet character speaks for itself and conversely so does the character of your bashers.
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Awe
... you know the feeling is mutual here. ;)
 
#7 ·
Stereotypes are often used as either a simple mechanism to hurt other people or defend an untrue premise. TAM maybe somewhat stereotypes run amuck but much of it serves to push agendas rather that continue legitimate discussions. This notion that this was my experience so it must apply to EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD lol

I have been wrongly stereotyped here OFTEN and professionally some. I learned long ago to just shake my head. Some people truely can only exist in ignorance and I pity them to some degree.

Keep being you SA!

Sincerely,
A fan :)
 
#8 ·
Unbelievable said: A chipmunk, seeing the approach of a hawk, can instantly form rational opinions regarding the hawk's capabilities and likely intentions. Political correctness is an invitation for otherwise intelligent humans to function daily as if they have no previous experience on this planet.
I've always enjoyed your parables Unbelievable ;).... I see wisdom in what you say here..

I am not exactly a "politically correct" person ...I think the best Jokes I've ever heard were ones making fun of political correctness... I was trying to find some.. came across this, gotta keep it tame > Blue Collar TV Politically Correct Fairy Tales With Larry The Cable Guy

Myself & H were talking about this last night & he says ...what's the point in not saying certain things when you THINK them anyway.....he just felt it's as much as lying , or white lying ...to save face.. it's not like it's going to change anyone inside (if people are bigoted or judge on race, religion, etc..and I too agree this is VERY WRONG)

What happens is ... people just become more PLASTIC...it's becomes about "Censoring free speech /expression"...I even feel it prevents others from getting deeper to allow for some meeting of the minds...



I feel there is a way to give constructive criticism without being intentionally hurtful or rude (of course this should be avoided !)...this allows us to be honest , see our differences... and


I just don't like the pandering so you will "Look good" - it all seems so fake to me...I'd rather know how someone feels.. the truth, even if it's against me, or how I think.. Authenticity is rare to find today..

This is why everyone in Politics is a JOKE.. would anyone remotely HONEST even survive....It's not possible!!...This is what we have bred.... what we excuse.. what we choose.. we can only blame ourselves.

We will never see any up coming charismatic leaders worth their salt when they have ALL been conditioned to talk a line of
to soothe the masses...
 
#12 ·
People have an instinctive need to understand the world around them, and part of seeking to do so is to try the figure out "the rules". What governs behavior and action? Isn't that basically what science and every other field of academic study is about?

When we try to figure people out, we rely heavily on generalizations to do so, because it's a lot easier than trying to figure out what motivates a world of 7 billion individuals. Some generalizations are good or at least helpful, and some obviously aren't. Deciding which is which is part of the process of figuring out the rules.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Stereotyping /Generalizing -Why we DO it - how to avoid hurting....what Inflame



This is very true! I use generalizations extensively and admit it. The problem arises when a generalization becomes folklore and is accepted as truth overall Often the later evolves to be so because of the laziness of people to consider if the generalization really applies for a specific case.

This is what makes this so funny to me.

View attachment 34482

I have been fortunate to mostly be surrounded by people who use generalizations in a considered way. However for the past couple of years at my company our group has been a victim of this and it has been emotionally draining.

Most of it that I see on TAM is really a form of venting and it doesn't bother me. But there has been a couple of threads in the political forum that really offended me because of taking without question a certain viewpoint and generalizing it to conclude people involved are liars with the intent to deceive the country. One poster had a new thread about the same thing almost daily for awhile until he was banned. The real issue was that this poster was a fanatic about a particular topic he was misinformed about.

Most of the others that occur don't bother me. SA I often think you trigger too easily over statements that don't apply towards your husband but I support your pointing it out. Not all men and women are the same and many don't really appreciate how the differences manifest.

I suspect that you and your husband are like me and my wife. If the stereotypical man and woman are 12 and 6 on a clock then my wife and I are more like 9 and 3. At least that's how I view it. I don't meet a lot of the stereotypical qualities of a man either but I don't take those statements to imply I'm not a man. A man defines himself and external validation is nice but not necessary.
 
#13 ·
Image matters. If a patched 1% biker pulls up next to me in traffic, I'm not going to start crap with him. He MIGHT be a wimp. He MIGHT be a pushover. He might even be a great guy to have a conversation with. But my knowledge of the general kind of people that get patched into outlaw biker gangs is going to inform my behavior.
 
#24 ·
Image matters. If a patched 1% biker pulls up next to me in traffic, I'm not going to start crap with him. He MIGHT be a wimp. He MIGHT be a pushover. He might even be a great guy to have a conversation with. But my knowledge of the general kind of people that get patched into outlaw biker gangs is going to inform my behavior.
I am so with you Fozzy! In one of the articles it said this..

Some stereotypes are very useful in predicting behavior of members of a group where we do not know the member.

* We assume that soldiers attacking our position are will try to kill us.

** We assume that a leather-clad biker with chains and tattoos trying to hitch a ride may also harm us. .

* We assume that people who come from a different culture will behave in important ways differently from us.

* We assume that people who carry concealed weapons onto aircraft could be terrorists.

* We assume that we should not trust a stranger.

Other stereotypes provide good lessons in behavior.

A boy scout is honest and helpful. A hero is heroic. (If I want to be heroic, should I charge that enemy foxhole? Society may prefer this, but my wife may not.) A good Samaritan is a good person. Someone from my group won’t hurt me.

Stereotypes come to contain the common cultural assumptions, beliefs and values of a group, and are used within the group to define safe and accepted groupings and to warn against groupings outside the norm. Stereotypes help us classify people to know better how to interact with them.

It is the usefulness of stereotypes that leads them to persist. Beyond safety warnings, stereotypes gives us guides to good conduct and help us deal with any individuals whom we do not know well by giving us shortcut assumptions about them. We assume that fifth graders are about as smart as fifth graders, and we assume that newcomers to a group could use some help.

Stereotyping is a natural function of the human/cultural mind and is therefore morally neutral in and of itself. A culture, however, endorses moral or immoral actions based upon the beliefs and assumptions implicit in the simplifying stereotype, and every culture seeks to simplify a complex reality so that it can better determine how best to act in any given circumstance.

It is the erroneous assumption at the heart of all stereotypes – that individuals in an identified group all behave in the stereotypical way – that leads to the serious problem with stereotypes.


** We assume not only that poor black men are more likely to assault us than well-dressed white men, we also assume this likely of the poor black man we see before us, and so this influences our behavior. While many stereotypes hold some statistical merit, i.e. that biker does present greater risk than the little old lady, the mental shortcut they provide also leads us to avoid further consideration of the prospects for truly individual treatment of the individual.

** Someone from my group may hurt me. A boy scout could be a criminal. A stranger could be kind and good. That well-dressed white man may find a way to swindle me out of all I own, and may even kill me in cold blood, and that poor black man may risk his life to save me from a careening bus.

There are also problems with even the “good” stereotypes. As human beings, we face an infinite number of choices about what kind of person we want to be, and what to do. If we accept stereotypes, even good ones, we limit ourselves.

Barbies become anorexic. Heroes become dead. Unknowledgeable good Samaritans can needlessly kill people.

It is human to stereotype, because it allows us to deal in a world of uncertainty with perhaps a bit less uncertainty. But this is the root of much injustice and horror. It is easier to kill and allow injustice when we think someone is fundamentally different from us.

To be human is to recognize the humanity in others. We must remember that “there but for the Grace of God, go I.” We must recognize that relying upon a stereotype does a disservice to the individual and to our own humanity, and do our best to recognize we are all God’s children, and we are all individuals, and we must treat each other as such.
 
#16 ·
It often seems to be impossible to discuss issues here because some people simply seem to refuse deal with generalizations. However, this seems to be only on topics that they disagree with.

Claims that "men generally want sex more than women" are met with howls from those for whom this is not their experience.

The same person who objected to the "men want more sex" meme will then say "we're all wired to want some Strange" and be absolutely shocked that anyone would question that statement.

I automatically put the words "most, many or some" in front on any generalization I read. I guess the answer is to just always put the qualifier in there explicitly.

If I say "most men want sex more than women", by all means feel free to respond with "I was reading a study that disagrees" or "I've talked to a lot of people and they disagree". But, please, please don't say "that's not true, I want sex more than my husband does".
 
#19 ·
It often seems to be impossible to discuss issues here because some people simply seem to refuse deal with generalizations. However, this seems to be only on topics that they disagree with.
I am one of the people who thinks generalizations are completely useless in advice seeking or giving.

What you get when you allow generalization to enter is one more distraction from understanding root cause. The ONLY route to a solution is to the root cause of the problem. When gender generalization is used, all you wind up doing is adding another layer of doubt as to whether or not THAT PERSON conforms to the generalization with no benefit to knowing that such and such might be generally the case.

In the final analysis, it seems completely useless to talk in terms of generalizations rather than identifying what is going on in a specific situation.
 
#25 ·
In my cop role, I dress like a cop. I act like a cop. I talk like a cop. I ride around in a police car. If someone sees me and makes the assumption that I'm a cop, they could be excused for believing the image I created. In my military role, I do act, dress, and talk the part and observers could be excused for believing the role I deliberately portrayed.
If someone dresses like an enemy of society, talks like one, acts like one, hangs out with other similar folks, listens to songs that glorify criminals and violence, sports tats that glorify criminals and violence, the rest of us can be excused for believing the image they spend years perfecting.
Same thing goes for those who go out of their way to appear, act, and talk, like ********, dopers, losers, terrorists, cowboys, bankers, physicians, construction workers, circus clowns, etc. There's not a 13 year old kid that can't go to the mall and pretty accurately identify the other juveniles in the mall, simply by their mannerisms, speech, and dress.
 
#88 ·
This type of thinking is why stereotyping is dangerous. I, personally, have no concept of what "cops" are like. I might know the poster is a cop or is in the military, but b/c I have no stereotype in my head about their CHARACTER, their INTEGRITY, as a group. I won't jump to any conclusions. I had to sit and think of what might be stereotypes for cops or the military--and the first thing that came to mind was, someone who enjoys helping others. I really cannot come up with other assumptions about the character of people filling these roles.

The second example, kids acting and dressing in the manner of their peer group--wow, what a leap the poster made! Because kids dress a certain way and listen to a certain type of music, you would assume that they actually will demonstrate criminal behavior and lack the morality of honest people? Clearly you have stereotypes in mind and ZERO experience to teach you how terribly dangerous your stereotyping is. I work in a very diverse environment and I can promise you that the way kids dress and talk has NOTHING to do with their character or integrity. Some of the preppie kids do drugs and commit crimes to get those drugs. Some kids dressing like modern day thugs are as honest as the day is long, and challenge themselves daily to be a better person.

The post I quoted is a perfect example of the dangers of stereotyping. The way someone dresses or even the job someone chooses is absolutely no indicator of their true character, and making assumptions about it is just plain ignorance--meant in its most literal sense as in, lack of knowledge.
 
#29 ·
We usually don't have the time or the motivation to conduct exhaustive inquiries about everyone we see or meet. We draw logical conclusions about people based on our past experience or knowledge of similar people. We do so almost instantly and usually from a distance. All creatures do this if they wish to remain alive.
We know that normal people don't wear bulky coats while entering banks when it's 90 degrees outdoors. When we see someone who does, we become naturally suspicious. We'd be idiots not to. If you see an unrestrained Pit Bull trotting toward your child you will probably have a different reaction than you would if you saw a cat, though it's entirely possible that the Pit Bull might have a sweeter disposition.
The Christian biker group that chooses to dress in ways that emulate criminal bike gangs invites confusing the public. The college fraternity that adopts gangster hand signs deliberately invites confusion. The woman who dresses like a street walker invites confusion. If your kid is not involved in crime, he has no business dressing like a gangsta, talking like one, acting like one, or associating with gang members. If you aren't gay, why would you sport a rainbow sticker on the back window of your car? If you aren't into drugs, what's with the dancing bear decal on your back window? Why is there a roach clip dangling from your rear view mirror if you don't smoke weed? If people form logical inferences about you from the image you deliberately create, that isn't their problem, it's your problem. You decide how you will dress and how you will speak and how you will act. You decide who you associate with. Don't advertise what you aren't selling.
I understand that many minorities believe the stereotype that white cops are racists. It is my burden to avoid dressing, acting, or speaking in ways that would reinforce that stereotype. They didn't dream up that stereotype, it was learned through many years of real experience.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Stereotyping /Generalizing -Why we DO it - how to avoid hurting....what Infla...

Have you been hurt by unfair generalizations, wrongly stereotyped ...and it BURNS you? .
People read my posts and think I'm a man!

It has made me realize that I do not fall into the generalizations or stereotypes many men have about women. It doesn't burn me, I find it funny. I'm glad I'm not mistaken for a man in person :)
 
#56 ·
Not that Always needs my defense but....she's not actually saying "oh gee I wish men thought I was pretty". What she is really saying is "why are women only valued for how they look instead of who they are" and she finds this sad and at times, even cruel. She doesn't just mean herself, she is talking about the whole strange conditioning that happens to both men and women where we are all taught this very limiting way of valuing each other.
 
#66 ·
What she is really saying is "why are women only valued for how they look instead of who they are" and she finds this sad and at times, even cruel. She doesn't just mean herself, she is talking about the whole strange conditioning that happens to both men and women where we are all taught this very limiting way of valuing each other.
Absolutely. And not just those stereotypes about how we look, but also how we behave. For example, stereotypes like

*women with a sexual past are "used", damaged goods (but of course men aren't)
*women are supposed to be submissive; men are supposed to be the "captains"
*women crave to be dominated, even if they won't admit it
*women are emotional, do not think logically, have no interest in solving problems, just in hanging around and whining about them
*women don't know what they want, and cannot be trusted, and should not be listened to
*feminists are evil and have emasculated men, turning them into a pile of wussy pvssies

*men only care about sex and food
*men always want more sex, are always deprived, and women have an obligation to "trade" their desire to be taken care of for sex even though women aren't sexual
*men only care about hot bods; all else about a woman is of marginal importance

And I could go on...

Of course not everyone agrees with these stereotypes, and I am by no means the only one who challenges them or fnds them problematic. But at the same time, some are very entrenched in our culture, and are absolutely not doing anyone any favours.
 
#57 ·
Faithful Wife;12733226 What she is really saying is "why are women only valued for how they look instead of who they are" and she finds this sad and at times said:
I'll go back to my past point. We are on the forum of TAM. There's a lot of sex talk here which tends to correlate high with discussions on who do you want to f*ck.

In real life this isn't going on as much. My mom who is a bit overweight and keeps her hair short has a good job. Her boss values her greatly and it's not because of her looks. If you look around you in life you'll see level of attractiveness is far less important than you think.
 
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#58 ·
In some ways I agree...in other ways, I see it even worse than I see it at TAM in the real world. I definitely agree we can choose where we put our focus.

But Always Alone has been one of the only strong female voices at TAM who has consistently taken on and voiced opposition to some of the meaner things men say around here, and compared to a couple of years ago, I think she has actually made a difference here with some of those meaner messages. She has made some people think a bit more about how they come across, the things they say, and who is listening. To some others she may be coming across as just cranky, who knows...but I know she has earned the respect of a lot of men who before completely blew her off here.

She's a TAM hero, if you ask me. She is questioning the status quo and has been doing so regularly and consistently, and it is actually making a change here for the better.
 
#60 ·
SA,

I'm glad you posted this. I will try not to be too rambl-y but it happens.

For the reasons you stated in your OP (and ongoing contributions) I do not get myself involved with a lot of posts that bring out the Sensitivity Police. I avoid those posts altogether or leave them when I see that's the inevitable direction they are going.

I'm all for a place that encourages discussion and debate, but there are some people on TAM that get offended at what I consider to be either 1.) very slight things or 2.) TRUTH. This is why I use the handle Satya. Satya = truth. Many people can't handle the truth (to paraphrase a great line), but it has always been my belief that at some point we all must live in that truth we so often are in denial about.

Ever listen to the satirical musical, Avenue Q? One of the songs is, "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist." Of course there will always be people that take offense to a song like that, then there will be people like me who think, "Well, it's pretty true when you think about it." Talk about generalizing in song.

I'm not going to apologize for someone getting offended by my opinions. That's really their issue, not mine. I'm not the kind of person that will just sh@t on another with my words and with impunity, although I'm also not going to mince them and cover them with treacle.

SA, You ask the question, how we say things on our minds without them coming out in a bad way?

My opinion is, we can't, nor should we bother. Because at the end of the day, how people respond to our words or actions is NOT OUR PROBLEM. Some people use a filter before they share words, some do not. Every one of us will encounter one of these types in our lives.... should we expect all of them to put things politely to us? That's a very nice thought but my experience tells me the reality is often different.

It is the problem of the person having the issue to do something about it. If in that process, we (the delivery person) feel the need to re-evaluate our delivery or apologize for something, that's one thing, but to pre-emptively walk on eggshells about what we "might" say to hurt another's feelings is a complete waste of energy and forces us into a codependent way of thinking. Always worrying about what might happen, or how things might affect another. We are taking on more responsibility than is our due.

We should learn to allow others to have (or build) the capability to process our words and actions on their own, as adults, and make decisions as to how they feel, how they proceed with those feelings, and how they choose to approach those that have hurt them or how they choose to not confront and carry on. This process is the same for anyone in our life, be it a SO, a friend, an acquaintance, a colleague, a stranger on the street. Everyone should be held to the same standards and expectations of self-soothing, self-preservation, self-validation, and self-awareness. My responsibility is to myself and how I handle that which is thrown at me. It is NOT the responsibility of the person who may have offended me to put something in a more palatable way so that I won't get butthurt.
My responsibility is not to guess at how others will or won't handle my words and actions and then modify what I was going to do to suit all of those variations of "offense taken."

In the context of this board..... I am 99.9% sure that I have offended someone more than once on this board. I'm also that sure of being unaware of having done so in most of those cases. I'm acutely aware of when I say something with an express purpose. I'm acutely aware of when what I say may produce back lash. I will say it anyway. The "report" button is there for the offended party's convenience.

In real life, there is also a report button, it's called confrontation. Those who have confronted me and called me out on my words or actions have my utmost respect, even if we fundamentally disagree. My SO is one such person... one of the many things I adore about him.
 
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#61 · (Edited)
The problem with stereotypes is that they often create your first impression of someone--so the individual has to "prove" s/he is not the stereotype, rather than someone about whom you make NO assumptions getting to be themselves and not having to prove they "are not x, y, and z."

Second, it's really hard to prove a negative--"I am not irrational." Stereotypes are difficult to wash out of someone's mind.

All the defense I see of stereotypes is scary. "Probability" has NOTHING to do with stereotypes. Stereotypes are based on socially-constructed behaviors (ie, people behaving in ways that their society expected them to) and has NOTHING to do with inherent qualities. For an example, let's take the common stereotype that "women are emotional." For centuries, women were presumed to be less intelligent and less capable than men--and women learned that acting in certain ways (childlike, more subservient) would be VALUED by the men who assumed they were less intelligent and capable to begin with. The occasional woman who fought against that was labeled "unnatural," and she could face severe consequences (like being accused as a witch). Furthermore, society did not acknowledge that men FEEL emotion quite often--usually anger, b/c that is the only emotion men were allowed to express--and so people assume that b/c a man isn't crying, he isn't emotional and *will* make a "rational" decision. Lots of men make as many "emotional" decisions as some women, and lots of women can and do separate their emotions from their decision-making process.

Stereotypes are born of ignorance, of a laziness of rational processes that requires "short cuts." Accepting them in anyway is simply taking a mental shortcut--and one with long-term consequences.

I see the prevalence of stereotyping on an astonishing basis in other forums. The person who writes "Men do this. . ." has a very different mental framework than the one who says, "Some men . . ." or "A guy I know. . . " Start challenging yourself not to accept the occasional "slip" and you will find your world view changes. I had to do this myself, at one point, and it opened up a huge set of assumptions I didn't even realize I had. Don't kid yourself; your use of those "slips" is clear evidence that you rely on stereotypes to the detriment of yourself and everyone you meet who has to prove themselves against your set of assumptions.

Writing off those who use precise language as "the sensitivity police" is itself a form of stereotyping and simply digging in to protect, rather than challenge, the set of assumptions hidden in your subconscious. Again, I challenge you to stop assuming that people who try to use more precise language have a hidden agenda. There is nothing hidden about it--they want you to STOP stereotyping b/c it is dangerous and founded on things that never were true.

Perpetuating stereotypes is just wrong, b/c they are dangerous. Quit attacking the people who resist that perpetuation, and focus on yourself and how you might be harboring assumptions b/c you think there is a "grain of truth" in stereotypes. There isn't.
 
#75 ·
The problem with stereotypes is that they often create your first impression of someone--so the individual has to "prove" s/he is not the stereotype, rather than someone about whom you make NO assumptions getting to be themselves and not having to prove they "are not x, y, and z."

Second, it's really hard to prove a negative--"I am not irrational." Stereotypes are difficult to wash out of someone's mind.
This is not a hard fact... it depends on the individual... You do not know me of course. . but anyone who does in real life would say I am a warm engaging friendly sort of person.... easy to talk to... I have a way of making people feel comfortable.. . I am very good with introverts .. I can always get them to open up!

TRUE.. Depending on what I see out & about..how someone presents themselves through their TALK (are they loud, obnoxious, carrying on) how they dress, or the crowds they hang with.. Yes.. pictures form in my mind.. But I am also smart enough to know this does not = a broad brush of anything.. If I could highlight this part in bright lights & colors I would, because I feel it has been missed in my posts here.

After all myself & Husband are older fashioned, on the Conservative side in a # of ways... never go to bars and we went to a strip club a few yrs back... this was out of our element for sure .. .but we still had fun.. we made a friend in there ... he was a swinger.. who would have thought ! he was a nice guy, didn't drink, didn't smoke, had a good job.. Sure wasn't our lifestyle.. but that's OK.. he accepted us.. we accepted him. He bought my husband a Birthday dinner one night.

If we feel SAFE around someone (and that's always the question).. sometimes it's even a RISK.. I will talk to the DEVIL himself & be OPEN to learning what another is about... I much enjoy getting to know others & being pleasantly surprised to learn of things I might not have thought.

I've read many posts here how in regards to strangers , how some feel...some are even offended if a stranger talks to them in a grocery line like they should mind their own business or something.. I will admit when I hear someone speak like this.. I stereotype that person rather cold & very unfriendly ....they are not the type of person I would want to even meet eyes with.... I do not SNUB other people for no reason.

I realize there are many facets to all of us.. and yes.. it is presumptuous to think otherwise.. but this still doesn't erase the fact that 1st impressions have a place...

Stereotypes are born of ignorance, of a laziness of rational processes that requires "short cuts." Accepting them in anyway is simply taking a mental shortcut--and one with long-term consequences.
I did my best to explain... and in that what separates the IGNORANT from those who understand we can not, should not PRE-judge anyone.. but as in all things.. we have our opinions.. I am not off put by the idea that many will , upon hearing something about someone, associate other things.. I again.. find this very normal and those who say they NEVER do this ....I have a hard time believing that.

If you are a Democrat & think Republicans are idiots & hate the Fox news channel ....then upon hearing someone is one .....you will have formed an idea in your head.. just as if you are an Atheist and think all those who ascribe to faith are foolish/ dogmatic ... these people will form an idea in their heads upon hearing the Preacher is coming to visit..

I have taken the liberty.. around people who may feel uncomfortable.. to speak something to make them FEEL more comfortable , a breaking of the ice.. because I understand people associate a group one may hang in -as being similar to that group or affiliation ... In it's own way.. I am INVITING an invitation to get to KNOW someone better ....is this not commendable / worthy ? How we should respond ?

I see the prevalence of stereotyping on an astonishing basis in other forums. The person who writes "Men do this. . ." has a very different mental framework than the one who says, "Some men . . ." or "A guy I know. . . " Start challenging yourself not to accept the occasional "slip" and you will find your world view changes. I had to do this myself, at one point, and it opened up a huge set of assumptions I didn't even realize I had.
Good advice.. I agree with this. :smthumbup:

Writing off those who use precise language as "the sensitivity police" is itself a form of stereotyping and simply digging in to protect, rather than challenge, the set of assumptions hidden in your subconscious. Again, I challenge you to stop assuming that people who try to use more precise language have a hidden agenda. There is nothing hidden about it--they want you to STOP stereotyping b/c it is dangerous and founded on things that never were true.
Do you see how silly it all is.. just a difference of opinion and someone will call it "stereotyping"... I feel that's stretching it.. I don't feel anyone has a hidden agenda...

I do feel ,however, when a new poster shows up here, may have just been blindsided in betrayal, it feels their world is collapsing around them... they may speak things in anger . .. I guess I feel this is understandable to some extent...and we need to focus more so on their pain over a slip of angry words.. .. to calm them... after this has been cooled...we have their attention.. (without correcting them).. then we can better deal with sharing how what they are feeling.. is just NOT always true.. A time & a place sort of thing.. is what I am trying to say.. they are reeling more than we are in the moment....I think we can give them some Grace.

Perpetuating stereotypes is just wrong, b/c they are dangerous. Quit attacking the people who resist that perpetuation, and focus on yourself and how you might be harboring assumptions b/c you think there is a "grain of truth" in stereotypes. There isn't.
"Attacking... I'm not angry Sisters .. really.. it's just a subject I felt come up a lot and it was worthy to explore. :)
 
#63 ·
I appreciate it when people are sensitive to my feelings. But I probably learn more when they are just themselves, unfiltered.
 
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#68 ·
For me, it isn't an issue of whether or not people are sensitive to my feelings. It's a question of whether or not what is being said is true.

I mean, it's clear they feel it is, and they are, of course, entitled to their opinions. (And I agree that these opinions can be very eye-opening).

But, well, does that mean the rest of us have to accept it as truth?

This is where the challenge comes from.
 
#82 ·
Sigh. So many great postings in this thread I'd love to respond to. All these people who post thousands of times: you must read, compose, and think so much faster than I, plus organize your time better. Well just a couple of points.

There have been several comments favoring the use of statements like "Many A's are B," over statements like "All A's are B." In as much as this is indicitative of open minded humility, I agree. But from my experience that's not necessarily the reason. It might just be a cover used to make a prejudice appear less nasty, along the lines of, "Of course I don't think all {fill in a race, gender, ethnicity, religion} are {fill in something nasty}. I've know a few who aren't that way at all!"

I also feel there hasn't been a strong enough emphasis on the difference between voluntary and involuntary elements of stereotype. A stereotype based on someone's gender or race seems like a very different thing than a stereotype based upon one's choice of actions, choice of clothing, and so on.

I'll close with one of my favorite quotes relating to this. In his dissent of the supreme court decision Korematsu v. United States, Justice Robert Jackson wrote:
"Korematsu, however, has been convicted of an act not commonly a crime. It consists merely of being present in the state whereof he is a citizen....Now, if any fundamental assumption underlies our system, it is that guilt is personal and not inheritable. Even if all of one's antecedents had been convicted of treason, the Constitution forbids its penalties to be visited upon him. But here is an attempt to make an otherwise innocent act a crime merely because this prisoner is the son of parents as to whom he had no choice, and belongs to a race from which there is no way to resign."
 
#83 ·
Stereotypes aren't always accurate, but in my experience, they usually develop due to a lot of people doing a specific thing, or doing it in a way that makes a big impression. People probably aren't going to say "all 5th graders like Sponge Bob," simply because they know one 5th grader who likes it.
 
#84 ·
I've been cussed out, screamed at, called everything you can imagine. Never had to go to the Emergency Room due to someone's words. In a free country, people are going to hear words and opinions they don't like. We need to quit playing Word Police and teach our kids (and our adults) to have some resilience. The whole world is not going to encase you in bubble wrap and inoculate you with powdered sugar to protect your feelings.
If I meet someone who doesn't like men or doesn't like Christians or doesn't like straight people or doesn't like white people or doesn't like cops or doesn't like soldiers, I'll survive. The country is big enough for all of us. It's not our job to teach other people manners. That was the job of their parents.
If you meet a Klansmen, a Black Panther, a radical feminist, a fundamentalist pastor, an LGBT activist, aren't they all citizens with the same rights you have? You can probably learn something worthwhile from all of them and if you got past their label, you'd probably find something to appreciate and admire about each of them. Let people talk and quit being so sensitive. Nobody promised you an offense-free world.
 
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