General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
I have been married for 10 months. Things with my wife have gotten very complicated over this time. Over the past 2 months, we have had several talks about where our marriage is. In a few of these talks, divorce has been mentioned. In the last talk, my wife wanted to put a time limit of on how long we will try to make things better before we explore a divorce. I am very worried about our future together. I'll go over some key points that have gotten us to this point now.
Sex life: Almost non-existent. Ever since a few months before the marriage, sex has been few and far between. This lack of sex has not been my choice. She has been sexually distant. I have tried so many things to try and get her in the mood. From helping around the house more, to planning romantic evenings, to just coming home after work and jumping all over her, almost every attempt is met with a "tired" response. The sex has been so sparse and I have been shot down so many times that I am starting to shy away from even mentioning my horny feelings to her. And when I do try, I feel like it is coming across as awkward.
Home life: We bicker. But what couple that lives together doesn't bicker. She gets alot more upset over the bickering than I do. When she talks about our bickering in relation to her ideal married life, she comes across as thinking bickering never happens when you are with the right person. I think this is a naive thought, as it is a difficult thing to live with someone.
Her general happiness: She was slammed with a lot of stress over the past 2 years. She graduated college, we got a puppy, we got married and we moved in together, all within an 8 month period. Each single event is stressful, let alone all happening in such short order. Moving in was most stressful, as she moved in with me, and did not have any friends or family where I lived. She has been getting better, as she has become good friends with her co-workers. But I feel many of our problems are founded on her general unhappiness.
Her view of me: She isn't happy with me, as in who I am. I am more of a sensitive man, with a happy-go-lucky outlook. When we were dating, she kept telling me that I am the type of man she wants. Soon after we married, she told me she felt I was too "silly", and not serious enough. I had a bad feeling from that conversation. We were married only 2 months, and already she had a problem with the person I am. Then after 2 months ago, she tells me that she doesn't think I have found myself yet, that I am not comfortable with myself. She has said in so many words that if I "change" and "find myself", she will be much more attracted to me. Saying this has really upset me, we haven't been married a year and she has found she doesn't like my personality in a sexual way. Why would she marry me if she didn't like my personality and who I was? This has confused me.
I feel like she is so disconnected from me now and I am not sure how to get through to her. I am from a background where I only want to get married once. I met a woman I couldn't live without, who makes me happier than I've ever been. I married that woman and I want to make a family with her, to grow old with her. Considering what I have written, I am not sure there is even an answer for my problems. Obviously, you can't make any love you. They have to love you on their own. Regardless, does anyone have any advice or gone through a similar experience?
Your wife is making you the scapegoat for her unhappiness. Don't fall for it. You didn't fix her so you are to blame. She needs to grow up. And sorry but listing a puppy and graduation as excuses for her behaviour seems to say that her life isn't really very stressful at all.
She is the one not stepping up. Read some nice guy posts. Posted via Mobile Device
While I agree that she was making me a scapegoat before, I don't see it now. Since she has made friends out here where we live, she has been much happier. She is being immature (agreeing with you) in how she is treating me, now that she has a happier personal life. Before I thought things would be better when her personal life got better, but they have been almost the same. Some things have been better, but overall still unsure. So scapegoat isn't the word I'd use exactly. I more get the feeling that she doesn't want to be with me. I have brought counseling up to her before, saying that if we need counseling so soon into marriage, should we have even gotten married? She says she wants things to work out between us, but she gives crap responses when I bring up counseling.
I do see truth in what you say.
And yea, graduation is a stretch, but raising a puppy is completely stressful, we barely slept for weeks with all the middle of the night potty trips! But that is another conversation...
Home life: We bicker. But what couple that lives together doesn't bicker. She gets alot more upset over the bickering than I do. When she talks about our bickering in relation to her ideal married life, she comes across as thinking bickering never happens when you are with the right person. I think this is a naive thought, as it is a difficult thing to live with someone.
We never bicker. We used to before we figure out how to take care of each other.
Bickering ... you want to do that the rest of your life? Yuck.
No I agree. I don't want to spend the rest of my life bickering needlessly. But we haven't been living together for long. It takes time and effort to live with someone. I think your situation is more the exception than the rule. It is hard living with someone. At some point, disagreements and arguments will arise. Over time, you should get to know your spouse or girlfriend to a point where you can have a disagreements without fighting. However, getting to that point, learning how to disagree with your spouse, can take time.
Counseling good, bickering not good (not only doesn't achieve anything also makes you look REALLY weak to her). Agree with ClipClop you need to step up your game, its silly that you have to do this but the fact is it is very much like a game - what she says she wants, even believe what she wants right now, isn't for you to give in to her demands, be better at anything etc, what she really wants is for a confident man to take the lead in his own life so she can stand behind you. When you do you will each be better at putting in your own contributions to the marriage.
Now a few months ago tell me this and I'd say it is backwards and arrogant and stupid - that I was better than that I was a real man who put my wife's needs first did everything for her etc. Now maybe some women truly want that, but mine didn't and she was saying the exact same thing yours is. Problem is I waited 6 years too long to put my needs first, and I burned out from losing at her game and she left for someone else, and now when I take that understanding of events leading up to our failed marriage and even the words she was using to describe her feelings, she wanted someone to submit to and she things she found it with another man.
I think there is huge benefit for you to man up no matter what happens, I know I am - I'm not going to lose my values and ideals and dedication to my son, I'm not going to be a womanizer, I'm shooting for that line bewteen the whole alpha/beta male role. Anyways, Im just in the middle of sets, back to my workout
No I agree. I don't want to spend the rest of my life bickering needlessly. But we haven't been living together for long. It takes time and effort to live with someone.
Effort, yes. Time, yes.... to a degree. If you spend that time spinning your wheels, you build resentment and get nothing accomplished. This board is full of that.
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I think your situation is more the exception than the rule. It is hard living with someone. At some point, disagreements and arguments will arise.
Yah and what you do with learning to resolve them will be the pattern of the rest of your life for better or for worse.
You are in a really good place. You are newly weds. You have the opportunity to develop good patterns BEFORE you develop resentment and all sorts of baggage. Do it! It is worth it!
I could give you all sorts of hindsight, but most of it would not make sense to you in your current place. You have no context. I can try.
Fighting. Most of us come to marriage with an idea of what that means. Never dawns on us that our spouse does too. And it is not the same definition! We try to mold them to fit our ideal. Well hard lesson for me. Their ideal is just as real.
We know what our version of the right way to do things is. It is as second nature to us. Recognize that so to does your spouse. Being right is unimportant. Learn to be wrong or not care about right if that happens to be an issue for you as it seems to be for so many people. Like ... say ME when we were first married. Him too actually.
You strike a balance between being the best you you can be. REALLY striving to meet her needs and understand her. While setting limits for personal boundaries.
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Over time, you should get to know your spouse or girlfriend to a point where you can have a disagreements without fighting. However, getting to that point, learning how to disagree with your spouse, can take time.
Time well spent, yes. Time just not hearing... no.
I'm shooting for that line bewteen the whole alpha/beta male role
Lon, let me start off by saying sorry that things didn't work out with you and your ex. But you hit the nail on the head. What you said helped me remember one thing she has told me before...she wants "a beta man with alpha tendencies". Obviously, I don't know exactly which tendencies she likes. I know ones she doesn't like. I interpret what she says as, "be an alpha but don't be an arrogant douche".
I guess a big hang up where I am getting stuck is in relation to what Mom6547 said:
Quote:
Most of us come to marriage with an idea of what that means
I firmly believe people learn a lot about relationship from their parents. For instance, I grew up in a loving household. Parents never divorced and were deeply in love. On the other hand, my wife grew up with only a mother (as her parents divorces shortly after she was born, and she has never met her biological dad, never can since he is dead). Her mom remarried when she was 10. Her current parents have a pretty bad marriage. They really do not get along, and she watched some ugly moments between them. So even with her step dad, she doesn't respect him much/or see him like a father. While she may dream of a loving marriage, maybe part of her is drawn to issues in marriage on a deeper subconscious level (her words). The point I am getting to is I come from more of a "lover, do anything for each other" background where she grew up without a true father figure (biological or step). She while she wants to lovey dovey, sensitive man, she wants a man she can look up to and respect and follow, which is something she has never had in her life. All of the above relates back to the "man up" philosophy.
I have been married for 10 months. Things with my wife have gotten very complicated over this time. Over the past 2 months, we have had several talks about where our marriage is. In a few of these talks, divorce has been mentioned. In the last talk, my wife wanted to put a time limit of on how long we will try to make things better before we explore a divorce. I am very worried about our future together. I'll go over some key points that have gotten us to this point now.
Sex life: Almost non-existent. Ever since a few months before the marriage, sex has been few and far between. This lack of sex has not been my choice. She has been sexually distant. I have tried so many things to try and get her in the mood. From helping around the house more, to planning romantic evenings, to just coming home after work and jumping all over her, almost every attempt is met with a "tired" response. The sex has been so sparse and I have been shot down so many times that I am starting to shy away from even mentioning my horny feelings to her. And when I do try, I feel like it is coming across as awkward.
Home life: We bicker. But what couple that lives together doesn't bicker. She gets alot more upset over the bickering than I do. When she talks about our bickering in relation to her ideal married life, she comes across as thinking bickering never happens when you are with the right person. I think this is a naive thought, as it is a difficult thing to live with someone.
Her general happiness: She was slammed with a lot of stress over the past 2 years. She graduated college, we got a puppy, we got married and we moved in together, all within an 8 month period. Each single event is stressful, let alone all happening in such short order. Moving in was most stressful, as she moved in with me, and did not have any friends or family where I lived. She has been getting better, as she has become good friends with her co-workers. But I feel many of our problems are founded on her general unhappiness.
Her view of me: She isn't happy with me, as in who I am. I am more of a sensitive man, with a happy-go-lucky outlook. When we were dating, she kept telling me that I am the type of man she wants. Soon after we married, she told me she felt I was too "silly", and not serious enough. I had a bad feeling from that conversation. We were married only 2 months, and already she had a problem with the person I am. Then after 2 months ago, she tells me that she doesn't think I have found myself yet, that I am not comfortable with myself. She has said in so many words that if I "change" and "find myself", she will be much more attracted to me. Saying this has really upset me, we haven't been married a year and she has found she doesn't like my personality in a sexual way. Why would she marry me if she didn't like my personality and who I was? This has confused me.
I feel like she is so disconnected from me now and I am not sure how to get through to her. I am from a background where I only want to get married once. I met a woman I couldn't live without, who makes me happier than I've ever been. I married that woman and I want to make a family with her, to grow old with her. Considering what I have written, I am not sure there is even an answer for my problems. Obviously, you can't make any love you. They have to love you on their own. Regardless, does anyone have any advice or gone through a similar experience?
Mem, you are spot on with that analogy. I would like to say that I don't follow the path of the hot partner, but I would be lying. At some point or another (and sometimes at the same time), my behavior has matched up with every one of the points listed under hot partner. Reading it, point after point, I can't help but feel extremely needy in how I have behaved. I never thought I was needy. Take one of those points separate from the hot list and the behavior doesn't necessarily dictate neediness. But group all the hot points together and it paints a pretty bleak picture. Wow, I kinda feel sick reading that, immediately seeing myself in a different light. The first thought that popped in my head after I read that post was "you just gotta let go". Letting go will show her, in a way, that you can stand on your own two feet, you are number 1 in your own life, etc. Man, reading all these responses and responding myself has been enlightening to my own behaviors, and her standpoint as well. I never realized how much of a (for lack of a better term) whiny little b*itch I have been.
Let me go through point by point:
1. I am 95% of the time, the one to say ILY, whether it is saying goodbye, good night, or just to say it.
2. Same deal as #1. I like to talk, or initiate conversation, when we are apart. I guess I do this so that she knows I am thinking of her. This is something I thought all women like, knowing that their husband thinks about them when apart.
3. At first, she liked this trait about me. In fact, in our first huge argument when dating, my relentless talking (normal talking, not about the argument) broke down her defenses and got us back on good terms. She asked me how I could be so calm and I told her that life is too short to be pissed off. She liked that at first, but maybe she now sees that as weakness, not standing up for myself, etc.
4. Right on. I fall into that "I can't believe she did...to me" trap.
5. When she is really mad at me, I frantically try to use my words to get me out of the doghouse at first. Then I sit down and do something with more effort, and when I do she will accept my apology and we move on.
6. Almost always. Recently, I have been trying to be better at stopping myself. For instance, last night she got home for work late and was going to go out with friends. I was tired and went to bed. I was in bed for maybe 5 minutes, when she came into the bedroom and asked if I was mad at her. I said "no, why?". She said because I didn't say goodnight. An hour later, as she was leaving the house, she came into the bed and kissed me goodbye.
7. Not sure what the "R" is?
8. Up until 3 weeks ago, I did almost all the house work. I was really pissed about it and confronted her. The talk ended up going sour in the end, as she kept bringing up all these excuses about house work and things unrelated to the conversation (i.e. we fight too much). Since the talk however, bad as it was, she has been a little better. Last week, she was leaving for work and apologized to me for not cleaning and that she would the next day (and she did).
9. Yes, I hope to make her happy personally and spill that happiness over into our relationship happiness.
10. Yes
11. When we fight, I tend to think about it alot, to a point where it comes into conflict with my daily routine. It is very frustrating, but I am not sure how to shake that behavior. Maybe my own personal counseling.
12. I go through "phases" with the sex life. Since it has been so rare, sometimes I'll go a month without even trying or thinking about it, other times I'll masturbate and start thinking about how long it has been and how it is bull****. This part in particular really messes with my confidence. She is my wife and there are only so many "no's" I can get before I start to lose it.
Are there any other posts/articles you have written?
Mem, you are spot on with that analogy. I would like to say that I don't follow the path of the hot partner, but I would be lying. At some point or another (and sometimes at the same time), my behavior has matched up with every one of the points listed under hot partner. Reading it, point after point, I can't help but feel extremely needy in how I have behaved. I never thought I was needy. Take one of those points separate from the hot list and the behavior doesn't necessarily dictate neediness. But group all the hot points together and it paints a pretty bleak picture. Wow, I kinda feel sick reading that, immediately seeing myself in a different light. The first thought that popped in my head after I read that post was "you just gotta let go". Letting go will show her, in a way, that you can stand on your own two feet, you are number 1 in your own life, etc. Man, reading all these responses and responding myself has been enlightening to my own behaviors, and her standpoint as well. I never realized how much of a (for lack of a better term) whiny little b*itch I have been.
Let me go through point by point:
1. I am 95% of the time, the one to say ILY, whether it is saying goodbye, good night, or just to say it.
2. Same deal as #1. I like to talk, or initiate conversation, when we are apart. I guess I do this so that she knows I am thinking of her. This is something I thought all women like, knowing that their husband thinks about them when apart.
3. At first, she liked this trait about me. In fact, in our first huge argument when dating, my relentless talking (normal talking, not about the argument) broke down her defenses and got us back on good terms. She asked me how I could be so calm and I told her that life is too short to be pissed off. She liked that at first, but maybe she now sees that as weakness, not standing up for myself, etc.
4. Right on. I fall into that "I can't believe she did...to me" trap.
5. When she is really mad at me, I frantically try to use my words to get me out of the doghouse at first. Then I sit down and do something with more effort, and when I do she will accept my apology and we move on.
6. Almost always. Recently, I have been trying to be better at stopping myself. For instance, last night she got home for work late and was going to go out with friends. I was tired and went to bed. I was in bed for maybe 5 minutes, when she came into the bedroom and asked if I was mad at her. I said "no, why?". She said because I didn't say goodnight. An hour later, as she was leaving the house, she came into the bed and kissed me goodbye.
7. Not sure what the "R" is?
8. Up until 3 weeks ago, I did almost all the house work. I was really pissed about it and confronted her. The talk ended up going sour in the end, as she kept bringing up all these excuses about house work and things unrelated to the conversation (i.e. we fight too much). Since the talk however, bad as it was, she has been a little better. Last week, she was leaving for work and apologized to me for not cleaning and that she would the next day (and she did).
9. Yes, I hope to make her happy personally and spill that happiness over into our relationship happiness.
10. Yes
11. When we fight, I tend to think about it alot, to a point where it comes into conflict with my daily routine. It is very frustrating, but I am not sure how to shake that behavior. Maybe my own personal counseling.
12. I go through "phases" with the sex life. Since it has been so rare, sometimes I'll go a month without even trying or thinking about it, other times I'll masturbate and start thinking about how long it has been and how it is bull****. This part in particular really messes with my confidence. She is my wife and there are only so many "no's" I can get before I start to lose it.
Are there any other posts/articles you have written?
Mem, thanks . I have never posted like this in a public forum before, but it is quite akin to journaling. Talking/thinking through your problems really helps to achieve the desired "light bulb" effect. And the realizations come quicker with kind people like yourself helping to guide. I'll take a look at your post and respond later (it's quite lengthy!). I gotta graduation party to get to.
Mem,
The article is a great read. Since my wife and I have been having serious talks recently, I brought up your articles in conversation. Not directly, but indirectly. I had a perfect lead-in, as I just saw my cousin and her husband who got married 3 weeks before I did and have very similar problems. So while telling her about their problems, I told her what I had mentioned to my cousin's husband in regards to our marriage. So I brought up the 12 "hot" points that I realized in myself, which she absolutely agreed with. She thinks that I need to hang out with my friends more. While I agree with that, I think I mainly need to stop putting her on the pedestal. As an individual, I should at all times be #1. Somewhere along the line, I put her #1. Well, she has just been demoted. I am #1. I will do things I want to do, when I want to do them (unless, as you said, I need to be supportive). Now, I did cut back on hanging out with friends during my #2 phase, and I am starting to get back into the swing of things hanging out with the boys. I do have another question though. As I said, the sex life is abysmal at this point. I know what the reason is now, she is not attracted to my behavior over the recent months. Seeing this from her perspective, I can see why. Realizing my behavior, I am not happy about it either. When talking about this with my cousin's husband, we were both in a similar place. Each attempt at sex that gets thwarted adds to the list of thwarted attempts and leads us to throw our hands in the air and say "I have tried everything, I give up." Now from what you wrote, I take the response I should be giving is indifference. What kind of direct advice can you give for a man who looks at other women differently, as in, at this point I find it hard not to follow through on my sexual urges outside the marriage? I never thought I'd think this way, but then again I never thought I'd be in such a sexually rare marriage.
Newly Wed with Problems 
