Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Opinions Needed- Son's engagement

6K views 81 replies 18 participants last post by  sapientia 
#1 ·
I Came here to collect opinions, I want to check it against my thinking, Thanks
First just the facts, as best they can be called that.
Son, age 26 is in grad school. He broke up with his old girlfriend in February of this year. She was a Chinese foreign national and she went to his school. They saw each other about 2 years, during which he mentioned the possibility of marriage but there was no discussion of kids. His current fiancee just finished law school last year, she lives about 100 miles from him, they met online in February-March time frame. She is also a Chinese foreign national here on an H1B visa and has a job as an attorney. She is 31 years old and says she will have 2 kids in the next 5 years with or without my son, even if she has to have in-vitreo fertilization and go it alone. She has also expressed strong desire to be an American citizen.
They plan on a Chinese wedding in January, an American one next summer, and that would be about the same time my son could be defending his PhD thesis if all goes well. They plan on living apart right where they are after the Chinese wedding, I am not sure what the plan is after the American one. She claims that she can get a job anywhere as a patent attorney and will move where ever my son’s unknown job-to-be takes him. They also said they want to space the kids 4 years apart, that means first child will be within the next 18 months approximately.


Now these are what I also consider relevant ‘facts’, but not things you can absolutely say about this situation. Please correct them if wrong:
1. Chinese women have been having anchor babies in the US, that is if they give birth here, then the child is automatically a citizen and they cannot be deported.
2. Foreign nationals have more rights in a divorce from an American than Americans do, IF they stay here.
3. Cross-culture marriages are more challenging than mono-culture marriages
4. People generally have 3 stages of love. The first two are bio-chemical based, the last stage is a more rational bond based on mutual respect, trust, and life interests. Statistical studies have shown that the majority of lasting marriages are formed when the engagement process is about two years long, which nicely matches the estimated time for the bio-chemical stage to settle down. The same studies show that courtships lasting less than a year have the highest rates of divorce.

I met the fiancée once just last weekend. She is a nice enough woman, very outgoing, intelligent and honest about her intentions, the only issue I have so far is that she likes to dominate conversation and has quick answers for everything. She appears very much like a woman with a plan and likes to be in charge. She didn’t ask one single question about me, everything was about either herself, or the topic of babies and childcare.
My son is happy with her, just as he was happy with Chinese girlfriend number one initially. I like seeing my son happy, but I cannot help but see red flags all over the place. What do you see?
 
See less See more
#4 ·
TBH it sort of sounds like you might have an issue with her race.

But if this were my son, and he'd just broken up with his girlfriend of two years in February and was already engaged in fkn July I'd be all "haha, no. No way. You're crazy and you have no idea what you're doing." It is kind of suspicious that a seemingly intelligent young woman wouldn't think this is an issue.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#9 ·
I have an issue with her culture and being an alien, not her race. Chinese have anchor babies all the time, so it seems that manipulating my son would be well within her cultural norms. As you say, why else would an intelligent 31 year old woman be ok with this? Why would an intelligent 26 year old in any case.
 
#5 ·
She sounds fine, but of course any relationship/marriage can lead to problems, even without the international issues. My uncle married a Chinese woman via correspondence, met her, married her, and they have been happy together for nearly 30 years. She's smart, hard-working, and loyal. I think he got lucky.
 
#6 ·
i dont know...

i sent my wife a message and then disappeared for two months, no contact with the outside world allowed. when i came back, i saw that she had messaged me back. we got married less than a month later.

the question is, is your son the kind of person who can get himself into those moments where he thinks "what did i do?!", and still be happy and make it work?

both myself and my wife had those moments. neither of us would change a thing though.

and while cross cultural marriages may be more difficult(i wouldnt know), mail order marriages have a much lower divorce rate than typical american marriages. go figure.
 
#12 ·
Mail orders seem like they are more for men with money who know exactly what they want, and women who are ready to marry that and probably are not alpha females. My son is still in school, this woman I doubt would ever mail order herself, she seems too much to want control.

Of course there is a chance of success, of course he will have the moment of truth, and as you say it I agree, a decision will be made.
I am trying to come to grips with the possibilities. I think for every story like yours there are 2 much sadder tales.
 
#7 ·
My question is what do you think you're going to be able to do about it if you don't agree with the marriage plan.

Your son is a young adult who is educated and sounds capable of making his own choices about who he's going to marry.

Do you really think you can stop him from proceeding?
 
#14 ·
Could I stop him? I bet I could if I did something radical and harmful, but I'm not going to do that.

I'm not necessarily trying to stop him, I'm trying to educate him on how to make good decisions and maybe slow it down some. I have links to studies showing that 2 years of courtship are statistically the most probable to lead to success. Probably because one has time to start to see the flaws and all that, get past the chemicals.
 
#11 ·
Your son is 26, time to cut the apron strings. He is an adult and that means making choices that you might not agree with and that may or may not turn out well. But this is his life and his lessons to learn.

If on the other hand he asks for your opinion on the matter tell him exactly what you think. Just be prepared for him to do what he wants in the end.
 
#18 ·
I'm not necessarily trying to stop him, I'm trying to educate him on how to make good decisions and maybe slow it down some. I have links to studies showing that 2 years of courtship are statistically the most probable to lead to success. Probably because one has time to start to see the flaws and all that, get past the chemicals.
Look, I have two children...one of marrying age and one younger and I can tell you that I totally understand your concern. Its perfectly valid.

However, your son is 26 years old and if he asks your opinion, you have every right to state it but if he doesn't, you're treading on his right to make a decision about who and when to marry. And most likely, he's not going to take your advice (data driven or not). I'm simply suggesting you should prepare yourself for that.

In addition, you should be careful about poisoning the well here. If you criticize his fiancé, he's probably going to tell her and you're going to be setting yourself up for a difficult relationship with her and your potential grandchildren. If he's weak-willed and she's the boss in the relationship, this could be a very bad strategy.

At the end of the day, you've raised an adult child who has the right to make his own choice and make his own mistakes. I think you should exercise caution in how you advise him in this so that you don't damage something you're not expecting.
 
#20 ·
Then, when I can approach him in a calm and comprehensive way, I'll ask him if I can give my 2 cents. My goal will be to delay baby 1 until 3 years. I figure that give my boy a shot at introspection.
Its obvious you love your son and want the best for him and I think its a great idea for people to wait to have children.

Unfortunately, I also know that when a determined woman wants a baby, there might not be much you can do about it.

Anyway, good luck.

If he does make a mistake, one thing I've learned with both myself and in raising kids is that is the tough stuff that we grow the most from. He's going to make mistakes you just cannot save him from....its just part of the life process.
 
#22 ·
He met her online in February-March and she lives 100 miles away from your son? I would ask him how well he thinks he knows her. Has he seen her at her worst yet? How do they handle conflict? What do her parents think about this relationship?

In addition to gentle questioning, do you have a brother, sister, or neighbor he is close to? Can they point out the potential difficulties he will face?
 
  • Like
Reactions: turnera
#27 ·
thank you for the good questions I can try and answer. I just don't know much about this right now, he has mentioned a new girlfriend over the last 3 months but I was preoccupied with my wife's health issues. I did think, 'great son, have some fun' but I never imagined he would pop the question in 5 months.
 
#23 ·
1. Chinese women have been having anchor babies in the US, that is if they give birth here, then the child is automatically a citizen and they cannot be deported.
Women of every race/nationality have anchor babies. This is not just a Chinese thing.
She’s already in the USA and already works here? She has a green card, right?
2. Foreign nationals have more rights in a divorce from an American than Americans do, IF they stay here.
I have no clue why you believe this. Please educate us on what these extra right are…
3. Cross-culture marriages are more challenging than mono-culture marriages
Marriage is a challenge. A lot of people make cross culture marriages work all the time. It’s been going on since the dawn of time. Where do you think all of us multi-racial people come from?

You cannot remove all risk from your son’s life. He has to make his own choices in life.
4. People generally have 3 stages of love. The first two are bio-chemical based, the last stage is a more rational bond based on mutual respect, trust, and life interests. Statistical studies have shown that the majority of lasting marriages are formed when the engagement process is about two years long, which nicely matches the estimated time for the bio-chemical stage to settle down. The same studies show that courtships lasting less than a year have the highest rates of divorce.
2-5 years of dating is the magic time frame. Also marriages in which the woman is under 25 and/or the man under 30 fail. I believe it’s the highest divorce rate at 50%.

But when the women is over 25 and has a college degree, the divorce rate drops to 25%.

When both spouses have advanced degrees the divorce rate is even smaller. Or we can look at it as the success rate is much higher.

I met the fiancée once just last weekend. She is a nice enough woman, very outgoing, intelligent and honest about her intentions, the only issue I have so far is that she likes to dominate conversation and has quick answers for everything. She appears very much like a woman with a plan and likes to be in charge. She didn’t ask one single question about me, everything was about either herself, or the topic of babies and childcare.
Good thing you are not marrying her since you don’t trust her, even though you do not know her.
My son is happy with her, just as he was happy with Chinese girlfriend number one initially. I like seeing my son happy, but I cannot help but see red flags all over the place. What do you see?
The more you try to break up this marriage, the more you drive them together. IT’s the Romeo and Juliet thing.

They’ve known each other for a few months. The date of the Chinese wedding is 6 months away. A lot can happen in 6 months.

By interfering in his relationship, you are telling your son that you do not trust his ability to live his own life. Not a good message.
 
#26 ·
Women of every race/nationality have anchor babies. This is not just a Chinese thing.
She’s already in the USA and already works here? She has a green card, right?
no green card, she only has an h1b visa
the chinese are more organized about anchor babies than most, and the conditions in their homeland push them that way

I have no clue why you believe this. Please educate us on what these extra right are…
What Sponsors Should Know Before Signing Form I-864 Affidavit of Support | Nolo.com

Marriage is a challenge. A lot of people make cross culture marriages work all the time. It’s been going on since the dawn of time. Where do you think all of us multi-racial people come from?
sure, all I said it that is was harder



2-5 years of dating is the magic time frame. Also marriages in which the woman is under 25 and/or the man under 30 fail. I believe it’s the highest divorce rate at 50%.

But when the women is over 25 and has a college degree, the divorce rate drops to 25%.

When both spouses have advanced degrees the divorce rate is even smaller. Or we can look at it as the success rate is much higher.
maybe the education will mitigate the fact he is only 5 months into a rebound relation, I sure hope so


Good thing you are not marrying her since you don’t trust her, even though you do not know her.
she did nothing to earn my trust in 4 hours, I would have to be a fool to blind trust her

The more you try to break up this marriage, the more you drive them together. IT’s the Romeo and Juliet thing.

They’ve known each other for a few months. The date of the Chinese wedding is 6 months away. A lot can happen in 6 months.

By interfering in his relationship, you are telling your son that you do not trust his bility to live his own life. Not a good message.
I didn't have good decision making skills when I was younger, sure wish my dad cared enough to maybe do some coaching. Us guys lean on each other for advice all the time. I said I am not trying to necessarily break it up, I'm trying help him make a good decision for himself. If she is the the one, then she is the one, but making that call right now is crazy.
 
#29 ·
You can be as concerned as you like, and hold fears for your sons future as much as you like. Like you, I believe your fears are well founded.

However, your son is an adult and his relationship is simply none of your business. If you interfere you face the very real risk of losing your son, along with any future grandchildren.

My mother in law made this mistake with my husbands first marriage. She tried to stop it, and understandably it left a bitter taste in his ex wife's mouth. MIL's relationship with my husband is strained at best. She also doesn't see her granddaughter, not because of my hubby or his ex wife, but because her granddaughter simply refuses to see her. She just doesn't like her.

Sadly, MIL didn't learn from the above and now revels in making life difficult for my husband and I. I have cut her off completely, hubby still sees his family at this stage, though he is getting more and more fed up as time goes on. They are likely going to lose him due to their behaviour.

You really need to keep your mouth shut OP. Sorry, but you do.
 
#38 ·
If this were my son, I too would be concerned about some of the same things:
It sounds like a rebound relationship.
It’s a long distance relationship. They have spent very little time together in real life.
They are marrying far too quickly.
The issues of getting a sponsor so she can stay in the USA is a valid concern.

All you can do is to educate your son on some things. You can approach is as you wanting to make sure that he knows the laws before he marries her. Do not approach it as you don’t want him to marry her. That would drive your son away and push him towards her.
This link you gave is a good example of the info you can provide for him.

What Sponsors Should Know Before Signing Form I-864 Affidavit of Support | Nolo.com

I would also see if you can get him to read the marriage laws of at least the state that he’s living in or where he thinks he’ll end up living. One thing that a lot of people do not realize is that marriage is a civil contract.

That said, I think that you are assigning to her a lot of motives that you are basically making up. You have no idea of her motives. Keep in mind that in a lot of societies people do not pick a spouse based on dating, lust and love. Instead they have arranged marriages. So a person growing up in these societies are more likely to pick a spouse based on their character, their social position, education, financial status and what they can bring to the marriage. Your son has a lot to offer as a husband. She has a lot to offer as a wife.

It’s a fact that divorce rates are much lower in arranged marriages. The couple often (if not usually) grows to love each other. They often skip that first romantic love phase that happens in the first 18-24 months of knowing each other… the one where people make foolish decisions because they are so high on feel good brain chemicals. You don’t see many divorces because there is not an expectation of life long romantic love. I love you but am not in love with you is not something that will usually be an issue.

And no, I’m not a fan of arranged marriages. I just realize that surprisingly they tend to work out well. I also know that love marriages seem to have high divorce rate.
 
#41 ·
I see your son being pretty miserable once the shine wears off his new apple.

Love the name, by the way. Now you need an avatar to match.

ETA: Here you go...

 
#56 ·
I don't see a healthy relationship whether I say anything or not
Yea but do you want to antagonize a woman that might shortly be giving birth to your grandchild?

I know a lot of women who don't really allow their children around grandparents because of this type of stuff. I'm not suggesting you don't do what seems right to do...I'm simply saying perhaps you should tread lightly.

I do judge, everyone does, I want my son to have a good wife. Don't kid yourself, there are some young men you would not like to be with DD24, that's called judging. My expectations are simple and reasonable, such as give me one reason to think that this woman is not out after anything but to use my son as a means to her ends.
This might be a little over-reaching. One because you really don't have much control over a 26 year old child's marital choice. Two because any woman getting married technically has an agenda to work that person into her plans.

Is he picking a future partner who's trying to control his destiny because he had a mother who tried to control his destiny and its what he's used to?
 
#57 ·
Yea but do you want to antagonize a woman that might shortly be giving birth to your grandchild?

I know a lot of women who don't really allow their children around grandparents because of this type of stuff. I'm not suggesting you don't do what seems right to do...I'm simply saying perhaps you should tread lightly.
I haven't said anything to her, just posting here, of course I need to be careful.



This might be a little over-reaching. One because you really don't have much control over a 26 year old child's marital choice. Two because any woman getting married technically has an agenda to work that person into her plans.

Is he picking a future partner who's trying to control his destiny because he had a mother who tried to control his destiny and its what he's used to?
Judging is how we select our mates, why does it get a bad rap? Never said judging is control, but judging is right and natural.

Key question, does her agenda mean also making my son's agenda come true? or is it all for herself? I dont know

I have to think deeply about the mother part, she controlled via passive agressive to some degree. This lady appears to be outright domineering. They are not alike.
 
#62 ·
If he decided to deal drugs at the local playground and i don't agree, that's on me? I don't get it, how does one not be emotionally invested in their children's lives?
You don't see the difference between disagreeing that your son is committing a socially damaging felony and allowing him to choose who he's going to marry by himself?

As I said, I get why you're going to carefully state your opinion but at some point, you're going to have to trust you raised this kid right and leave him to make and own his choices.

I'm invested in my adult child's life...doesn't mean I make decisions for her...she's grown.

lol...My kid is very dominant (like her mother) and if she ever chooses to marry and I tried to get in the middle of it, she'd tell me to go pound sand.
 
#64 ·
I'd like to think that my adult son will still value his very reasonable parent's opinions enough to consult with us on such an important decision.

If you are truly concerned for your son this woman is not the right match for him, I would ask him for a private meeting in a relaxed environment. Tell him clearly and calmly your concerns and what you see as the consequences of his decision. Do this only once. Consider suggesting a delay in marriage to let time do its work (don't tell him this part).

After that, all you can do is trust you raised a reasonable human being. Love him and hope for the best. If they do have children, love them also.
 
#70 ·
Being sure of yourself and what you want in life is a great way to avoid misunderstandings in a marriage. Many relationships break up for the simple fact that these questions weren't answered prior to the wedding.

My DH asked if I wanted kids on our first date. If I had your opinion about it, I would've disliked his forwardness and that would've been that. Instead, I appreciated his honesty and forthrightness. The woman you talk about is 31 so she has had plenty of time to figure out what she wants in life, and is smart enough not to waste time on someone who doesn't want the same things.
 
This post has been deleted
#81 ·
If your daughter decided to marry a convicted sex offender, you would give it thumbs up?
You keep equating this scenario with serious criminal felonies which is kind of illuminating about where your head is.

Look I've stated several times that there is nothing wrong with you tactfully stating your opinion...as long as you recognize that it could have severe long-term consequences if you do it the wrong way. And that includes damaging relationships with not only your son and his new wife but their children. That's why I simply mentioned you should tread lightly.

He is an adult...he's not committing a crime. She's an adult, she's not committing a crime. No one is selling drugs on a playground or committing child sexual offences. They just want to get married to each other. And the fact of the matter is its pretty common for kids to marry people that the parents aren't totally infatuated with.

Anyway, do whatever you want to do. You clearly don't get that you can't control this situation and are going to attempt it anyway. Good luck.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top