General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Let him kiss ass I say and milk it for all it's worth. When you stop feeling so angry and resentful, only then tell him how you feel. If you do it when you are angry you'll just end up saying things that you might regret later.
But him kissing ass is not making me feel better. Infact it is kind of making me sick.
Can you give me some time frames here? How long were you married before you shut down, how long have you been shut down, etc?
Snix11 - he's said for many years that if I ever gave him an ultimatum to chose between me and hunting, he'd give up hunting. I would never give that ultimatum because I know he'd resent me for it, if he actually would chose me over hunting. I don't want him to give up softball. I enjoy watching the games as much as he enjoys playing them, it's all the obsession over the bats that irritates me. One guy in town everybody talks about has over 20 bats. So, guess how many my H has now? Over 30. Why?
Yup, before we were married, after we had our daughter, and my dad died, I never foresaw a life with him. We never got along, broke up, and I had a one night stand with someone I worked with. Didn't go over well, obviously, but he changed his tune, and we got along GREAT after that. It's just so frustrating because it took that to make our relationship "work". Now we're back to not getting along (although not like it was back before all that, we were young and just immature), does it have to come to that again for us to get along again? (Rhetorical question, I know better) Although hooking up with someone else would help to reassure me that I'm still human and can reconnect my physical with my mental sex drive.
And I've been here all along admiring him, but that never mattered. I sure do see what you're saying. You should hear him talk to people - especially people he subconsiously thinks are inferior - he's constantly cutting them off and doesn't listen to all they have to say. He's like cro-magnon... why doesn't he just go around pounding his chest and peeing on things to mark his territory? Sheesh!!!
That's where I'm at now... is he just doing all this nice stuff to "win" me back, and then he'll go right back to where it was? It's hard to appreciate because that's what it feels like, ass kissing, and nothing more.
And yes, all these years he's been doing things that he thinks I want, all the while ignoring the things I've been telling him I want or need!!! Hopefully with him having read TFLL, he has a better understanding.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maybe I just need time for everything to blow over and settle into some sort of normalcy before I can accept that he's being genuine or a suck up. I just really really wish he'd stop looking at me like he wants to lay me down and f*&k me. All these years I could never do that to him and have much success, I really wish he'd knock it off. I am SO UNCOMFORTABLE with even the thought of sex, and that scares me almost as much as anything because that was NEVER me, EVER.
Well we actually were not even married when it all started. We have been together for 8yrs and married for 4 of those. The second year we were together i was ready to leave him but then i got pregnant so i stayed. After i got pregnant with our second child we decided to get married. He was very abusive physically,mentally,and emotionally. I honestly dont know how i lived through it.
I have an idea for you, but you might not like it!
You say H has always been a hunter... It is strange that he does not want to hunt YOU.
How do you feel about being hunted - in an animal way.
Also, how frequent has sex been since you shut down. And what about hugging etc.?
Hmm, me being hunted. Never thought of it that way. I'll have to think about it. Sounds fun.
We had sex one time since I shut down, and I brought it on, against my gut feeling. It was kind of a test to see if I did it if I'd want to do it more. It was fulfilling for me in a physical sense, but so mentally confusing. I have since told him that I don't want him to ask me for sex, and he hasn't.
As far as hugging and being close... we're still all about that. We hug often during the day and cuddle when we sleep at night. The past three nights have been awesome because we went to bed super early and just concentrated on each other. The one night we just laid there and talked, pretty in depth. The second night we took the laptop to bed and checked out the Oprah show that was on on Monday (all about sex), and then we actually watched a little porn, but nothing came of it. And last night he teased me (what we call it when he lightly runs his fingers all over my body real slow... I LOVE IT, but it's never been a sexual thing for me) as we asked some questions out of this book of questions we have. Just general questions... what would you do if you won a million bux kind of questions. We've both very much enjoyed spending our cuddle time together. We are getting along great and not arguing throughout the day or anything. Still doing our lunch dates and all. I think we're just reconnecting.
But the sex... I keep pondering in my mind why I'm so mentally opposed to it. I'm in school to be a nurse right now. Not even in clinicals, just trying to get the pre-req's out of the way. Could I be that stressed that I'm shutting sex out? I don't feel overly stressed this semester, it's going pretty good, actually. Is it some combination of the school and him? I'm so confused. Like I said, it's the mental aspect only of sex that has left me. I'm still physically desirable of it, but to go from wanting it to trying to get it, I get nauseous and would just rather not even think about crossing that line, so I let it go. What's going on??!!
I am new to this forum and heaven knows I am not a Marriage Counselor. For a little history we got married when we were 17, had two kids, got divorced when we had been married 11 years, stayed "separated" about 4 months, got back together and 6 years later got remarried. We have been married for 39 years. The main reason we were divorced were for problems that started when we met at 15. First thing, abuse is a deal breaker. NO ONE should put up with that. Male or female.
My advise, if you are thinking about divorce, make sure you have no doubts at all. As long as you are having doubts don't do it. Because I will tell you that some little something will happen and you will know immediately that you have no doubts. It could be something so trivial as a dirty sock in the floor or you didn't like the way he looked at you. But the minute it happens you will know that it was the last straw. When that happens, it is time to get out!! Don't stay together for the kids, it will just end up hurting them more. You can both be good parents apart.
I get nauseous and would just rather not even think about crossing that line, so I let it go. What's going on??!!
I can tell you exactly what's going on. You are so resentful at not being wanted sexually that you have taken that feeling of resentment and turned it into a psychosomatic barrier. So now, the thought of having sex brings up the gut wrenching feeling of resentment - and it's that feeling you feel instead of feeling lust for your husband.
Whereas before - as far as I can tell from your posts - only your husband had a problem with sex, now you both have one. There is a simple way to dissolve this barrier. When he is in a good mood, say "honey I want to talk about sex". Then tell him how his not demonstrating sexual desire for you made you so angry and frustrated you shut down, to the point where the thought of sex makes you feel panicky. Then tell him you want to work on this as it's stupid - ask him if he wants to work on it.
Anyway, going back to hunting...
Did you not think it strange that your husband was obsessed with hunting ANIMALS, but did not want to hunt YOU?
I am new to this forum and heaven knows I am not a Marriage Counselor. For a little history we got married when we were 17, had two kids, got divorced when we had been married 11 years, stayed "separated" about 4 months, got back together and 6 years later got remarried. We have been married for 39 years. The main reason we were divorced were for problems that started when we met at 15. First thing, abuse is a deal breaker. NO ONE should put up with that. Male or female.
started when you were 15!!!! how much emotional development had happened by then? ZERO??? i sure hope, even though you state you are not a marriage counselor, that you SAW one.
39 years married is a long time to have an issue from when you were 15 hang over your head.
abuse, agreed, no one should have to put up with that
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesolomon
My advise, if you are thinking about divorce, make sure you have no doubts at all. As long as you are having doubts don't do it. Because I will tell you that some little something will happen and you will know immediately that you have no doubts. It could be something so trivial as a dirty sock in the floor or you didn't like the way he looked at you..
a sock or a look is a doubt? a "last straw??"
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesolomon
But the minute it happens you will know that it was the last straw. When that happens, it is time to get out!! Don't stay together for the kids, it will just end up hurting them more. You can both be good parents apart.
when you find a dirty sock or get "a look" get out??? is that what you're suggesting?? a menacing look or a REALLY dirty sock, right?
Apparently you misunderstood my reply. I met my husband when I was 15 years old. We were married when we were 17. He was very jealous and distrustful. For several years it was "cute". But then it got worse. After 11 years, it was to the point where I didn't think I could take it. I had never been on my own and as long as I had doubts about leaving, I wouldn't leave. Then one day, after continuous fights and accusations for something I had never done or even thought about doing, we had a stupid little argument over his dirty socks in the floor. During that fight, all my doubts about leaving left. We didn't beat each other, it was all verbal altercations. That one stupid little fight drove all the doubt away and I gathered up my two kids and left. We got a divorce. He was a good father and he loved our kids as much as I did. I probably spent more "quality" time with him when we were separated than I did the last few years we were married since there was no reason to fight anymore. We got back together, I moved back home and we lived together six years before we remarried because I was afraid that once we had that legal document he would turn back into the old him. The last 28 years have been the happiest of our lives. Our kids are grown and we are enjoying ourselves.
That's why I said that if there are any doubts about leaving, don't do it. It could be a big mistake and you would always ask yourself if it was the right thing to do. Once something happens to erase that doubt, then get out. It might work where you get back together or it might not.
Would I do the same thing if I had it do over again? YES I WOULD.
Apparently you misunderstood my reply. I met my husband when I was 15 years old. We were married when we were 17. He was very jealous and distrustful. For several years it was "cute". But then it got worse. After 11 years, it was to the point where I didn't think I could take it. I had never been on my own and as long as I had doubts about leaving, I wouldn't leave. Then one day, after continuous fights and accusations for something I had never done or even thought about doing, we had a stupid little argument over his dirty socks in the floor. During that fight, all my doubts about leaving left. We didn't beat each other, it was all verbal altercations. That one stupid little fight drove all the doubt away and I gathered up my two kids and left. We got a divorce. He was a good father and he loved our kids as much as I did. I probably spent more "quality" time with him when we were separated than I did the last few years we were married since there was no reason to fight anymore. We got back together, I moved back home and we lived together six years before we remarried because I was afraid that once we had that legal document he would turn back into the old him. The last 28 years have been the happiest of our lives. Our kids are grown and we are enjoying ourselves.
That's why I said that if there are any doubts about leaving, don't do it. It could be a big mistake and you would always ask yourself if it was the right thing to do. Once something happens to erase that doubt, then get out. It might work where you get back together or it might not.
Would I do the same thing if I had it do over again? YES I WOULD.
this post is the first i've read about you fight about his dirty socks. hard to misunderstand when you never gave that info.
i do want to say though, that it is heartwarming to see you say "happiest of our lives."
I can tell you exactly what's going on. You are so resentful at not being wanted sexually that you have taken that feeling of resentment and turned it into a psychosomatic barrier. So now, the thought of having sex brings up the gut wrenching feeling of resentment - and it's that feeling you feel instead of feeling lust for your husband.
Whereas before - as far as I can tell from your posts - only your husband had a problem with sex, now you both have one. There is a simple way to dissolve this barrier. When he is in a good mood, say "honey I want to talk about sex". Then tell him how his not demonstrating sexual desire for you made you so angry and frustrated you shut down, to the point where the thought of sex makes you feel panicky. Then tell him you want to work on this as it's stupid - ask him if he wants to work on it.
Anyway, going back to hunting...
Did you not think it strange that your husband was obsessed with hunting ANIMALS, but did not want to hunt YOU?
Tell me about that...
Wow, I guess I never thought of it that way. We had seen a counselor about a year ago and the guy was not impressing either of us, so we quit going. Anywho, in relation to our daughter, my husband mentioned that she doesn't want to do things with him like softball and such, she'd rather just sit and watch TV together. It was blatantly obvious to me that she did that b/c he couldn't yell at her for anything then. It was always peaceful to watch tv together rather than get yelled at for not throwing the ball hard enough or the way he thought it should be done.
So, that's the same thing that happened to me I guess! There was pain and judgment involved in asking for sex, but only good feelings when cuddling. I'm happy that we're getting along so good and cuddling a lot and all. I do still have burning embers between my legs though, but I DO NOT want to fire them up with him. Sex would be nice, just absolutely not with him. It's so sad that I don't want to have sex with my husband. He keeps asking me if I have someone else. I do not. I keep telling him I wish I did so I could be reassured that I'm still human.
When you say ask him if he wants to work on this... do you mean sex, or just the relationship in general? The relationship is going fine, aside from the sex. He's really kissing ass and taking a lot of extra time to think of me. As far as working on the sex, yeah, he wants to work on that too (because of course he wants it now that I'm not giving it), but I can't convince myself that I want to work on it! I feel like I'm buried in a hole and feeling safe and secure there.
Did I think it strange that he didn't want to hunt me... well, not really in those terms I guess. The major thing I was always upset with was that he put me and his daughter second to hunting, always. One more irritating little tidbit story that I forgot to mention about that was that when we moved into the house we're in now... he wouldn't help move b/c he had to be in the woods. I had to enlist a male friend of mine (that of course I was accused of cheating with) to help me move so my husband could hunt!!! One more quickie... we started dating in November. When we got engaged and went to pick a wedding date, I thought it fitting that we get married on the date we began dating. Oh no... that's hunting season and it would interfere every year. He says he was looking out for me, I see it as being put second, yet again.
Anyway, back to the question about me being hunted. No, if I danced around naked in front of him or tried to get him to stay in bed with me rather than go hunting, nope, never happened. It was always just so painful to me that he had so much energy to get out there and hunt, but not so much for thinking about sex. He is by no means the stereotypical male that thinks with the head between his legs. He never has been. I was the first girl he was with! I guess for me to use the tactics I was using, now it looks kind of silly. I still expect him to be that man that will just drop everything at the offer of sex, and that is not him. That makes it doubly hard for me to ask for any sex from him. There were some nights after sex when I thanked him for it. I felt like he went out of his way to give it to me instead of going to sleep that I should thank him. Sad, huh?
When he came in from hunting, I was nowhere near the first thing on his mind. He had all sorts of things to put away. Then he had to get something to eat. Then he had to call his dad and talk to him about where he saw deer and how many he saw and at what time he saw them and how big they were and what time they were going out hunting tomorrow and and and.
All I've been asking for for years is to be his number one. He can finally commit and tell me I'm his number one person. That still doesn't put me as number one everything. Between two rooms in our house, we have five deer heads hanging.
After all that blabbering I just did, I can't really answer your question, Mark. Didn't I find it strange that he wasn't hunting me? Well, yeah, he was obsessed with hunting and doesn't have a hugely active sex drive. In the summer months (before he became obsessed with softball), things were great. He had the time and energy for me. We had a great sex life. I used to tell people we have a good six months of the year, and a bad six months of the year. That was all good, until one time he made the off color comment, jokingly, that yeah, his good six months is fall through spring. That stabbed me, still does to think about it, even though he meant it jokingly. Somewhere around being together 12 years or so, I told him that really, I've only actually had six years with him! So, strange that he didn't hunt me.... no, not for his lacking sex drive. If it were any other man with a normal man sex drive, yeah, that would have been strange. This guy... no, it's the way he is.
Back in January I pulled the last straw, sexually. I approached him, he denied me, and that was it. I vowed that I was not going to put myself in that pain again. Sex for women is a lot mental. Physically I would want it, and it didn't take many times of physically wanting it and reminding myself of the pain I'd endure if I asked for it. I severed the physical/mental connection.
After the summer obsession with softball, I just shut down. I know that things aren't going to change and I shouldn't try anymore. I've fought for so long to get his attention and failed. I'm not going to fight it anymore. It turns my stomach to think of sex with him. Physically I can feel embers still twitching between my legs, but mentally I am detached.
Of course now he realizes that I'm dead serious about everything I've been saying all these years. He's kissing ass big time. Getting up in the AM with me and getting all my breakfast stuff together, stopping at the store to pick up a few things we need, doing laundry, he even vacuumed the other day. Last night he asked if I was mad at him. I told him I'm not mad. This morning I realized it's worse... I'm not mad, I resent him.
Please read carefully over the above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhappy3
I do still have burning embers between my legs though, but I DO NOT want to fire them up with him. Sex would be nice, just absolutely not with him.
You are playing a dangerous game. You think that you have only shut off sexually to your hubby, and that if there was another man all would be fine. Not so. At first yes.. But you have set up a neural pathway which, if it's not dissolved will come back to bite your ass no mater who you date in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhappy3
When you say ask him if he wants to work on this... do you mean sex, or just the relationship in general? The relationship is going fine, aside from the sex. He's really kissing ass and taking a lot of extra time to think of me. As far as working on the sex, yeah, he wants to work on that too (because of course he wants it now that I'm not giving it), but I can't convince myself that I want to work on it! I feel like I'm buried in a hole and feeling safe and secure there.
Yes I meant sex. You set this whole thing up as a self protection mechanism. A so called boundary. Take it down before it's too late. It might involve a little forgiveness. Look at what you have going for you. You have hubby bending over backwards to "kiss ass" - why not use that to your advantage before the next phase sets in?
The next phase is when it all gets nasty. That's when he either starts competing with you on the freezer stakes (cold as ice, no more ass kissing), or he has an affair. You think hubby has very little sex drive. That's where you are wrong. His drive is simply repressed. It's coming out in hunting. When and if he finally has an affair, you will be saying it's "out of the blue".
Don't play any more games. Instead try clear communication. Right now, you have a very good chance of getting everything your own way - you have got his attention. The window of opportunity might be smaller than you realize. I can sense it closing.
I'm not very good at reading between the lines, so I must have missed what you wanted me to get out of my paragraphs.
I read this this morning and thought about it all day. I have mixed emotions about it all.
First of all, for years and years I told him what I needed and how bad it hurt when he denied me sex. I bent and bent and bent and put up with so much pain of rejection. And now you're asking me to bend again and make myself completely vulnerable to him again? What happens if he does it again? That's what happened this summer... in January I decided I wasn't asking for sex anymore, and I slipped up in the summer, and did ask for it. He denied me one time and I completely shut down. The biggest pain of all of this is that all this time he keeps saying that I need to approach him for sex, and how is he supposed to know when I want it if I dont' come to him for it? And he'd like me to do spontaneous things to him. I do those things, and he rejects me. I've always done those things and he's rejected me about 90% of the time. I can't go through that pain anymore. It's like adding insult to injury or salt to a wound when he tells me after he's denied me that I need to approach him for it! It's like one of those idiot tests to see how long you'll do something stupid!!
As a safety measure, I figure I need to come up with some promises that he needs to make to me before I'll even consider letting my guard down at all. I'm just not sure what to ask for. I'm thinking something like he needs to promise that he will not deny me for anything... if the house is on fire and I want sex, he damn well better give it to me when I want it.
How do we control the hunting and softball? I dont' feel right when he asks for permission to do things... I'm not his mom! I don't want him to resent me if I tell him no. He's a big boy and should be able to make decisions himself, no? He tells me I should write him lists so he won't forget to do things like buy me flowers now and then or open the door for me. I'm not his damn secretary either!
And what if things start to go back to normal and he goes back to his old ways? I'm so scared.
How do I tear down this wall? How?
If he had an affair, I think I'd be proud of him for doing something sexual out of his realm of comfort. I can say with almost 100% certainty that he would never do it. It would soil his good boy "reputation" that he's so proud of (trying to) shoving in my face that his is better than mine - I sewed my wild oats when I was younger, he never did, and that's a proving to be a big problem here.
I made a decision never to turn my wife down for sex. But sex might mean a hand job (for her) if I am really not in the mood. So far, that has never happened!
However, you can't necessarily expect to get that agreement from your hubby - not in one go anyway. In a relationship that works, there would normally be occasional rejection of the other partners initiation of sex. Surely in the past you must have rejected his initiations from time to time?
All I'm suggesting is you talk to him. You already have his attention. So you can call the shots.
Of course he might backslide - but if you work out an agreement beforehand, you can remind him of it as soon as you notice something. It's probably never going to be exactly what you want in your perfect fantasy, but, it could be a lot lot better than what you have now, and that should be your aim.
Re: My give a damn's busted 
When you stop feeling so angry and resentful, only then tell him how you feel. If you do it when you are angry you'll just end up saying things that you might regret later.
