General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
I don't think this is just an issue men have, as I have been plagued with jealousy over my fiancé's past as well.
I have been married before. We were both virgins and he was a minister. I loved him very much and was so excited for the life we were going to share together. We had a child and we were happy (or so I thought). I discovered about a year into our marriage that he had a pornography problem. I was supportive and nonjudgmental and I thought everything was okay. Throughout our marriage, I was always the one instigating lovemaking. He actually said once that I was treating him like a piece of meat. (What?! A wife being so attracted to her husband that she wants to make passionate love to him?! Isn't this most guys' dream?)
Well, he had apparently been fantasizing about what it would be like to be intimate with another woman. And one day, he just left. We had been married 4 years. He left and he never came back, he hasn't ever paid me child support (and I have never "gone after him" because what good is that going to do? He let his career go and so cannot make much and well, honestly if I "went after him," he would probably go to jail because he can't make enough to even pay me the $150 the court ordered 6 years ago.) After he left, I even waited for him, offering him complete forgiveness and I didn't instigate a divorce until he called me telling me that he had gotten some 18 year old girl pregnant (he was 26 at the time) and they were getting married as soon as I got the divorce. I was devastated, of course. I got the divorce and continued on with my life, furthering my education and raising our child the best I possibly could. I was chaste for 7 years- no dates, no kissing, no fantasies, no sex- nothing. (Sad thing for him, he married a bipolar chick and it lasted less than a year- and she definitely went after him for every last dime she could get!)
So, fast forward... after 7 years, I met someone. We really hit it off and fell in love. One day, I don't know why- because I didn't ask- he told me in excruciating detail about the women he had been with in the past. Like everything! About the girls, their hobbies, their talents, their families- even their sexual past! So, before me, he was with 4 women, who were all virgins.
A. I didn't ask and didn't want to know.
B. He says he wasn't looking for virgins, it just turned out that way.
C. He says I should feel lucky that he has no sexual pyramid (like, had sex with so and so, who had been with all these people, who had been with all these people, etc.).
I have such an intense jealousy over all this. To make matters worse, his sex drive is waaaay lower than mine. Maybe I'm an oddball woman, or maybe it's that I've only had sex with 2 men and I loved them both very much, but to me, sex is love. It's a physical expression of my soul brimming with love for him. It's a validation, in a way of his love for me and mine for him. I don't want to be in a relationship if I'm going to be rejected sexually. It's one thing if he gets ill or injured and cannot perform- we can find alternative ways to please each other. But this... it sucks! We have other issues and I'm beginning to think that this just isn't meant to be. I really don't like the feelings of jealousy that I have about his sexual past, and I don't think I would have them if he would just put on his big boy pants and make love to me! I like a biweekly paycheck but not biweekly lovemaking. Simply not enough.
Is there something wrong with me? Is the jealousy stemming from the infrequent lovemaking? I know for a fact that he should not have presented me with all that info on his past. I didn't ask and it seems rather cruel for him to have told me all that. I don't know if I can get past all this.
If your religious like i am than you see why the bible treat's sex as a very important and lovely thing and you should cherish it. Sadly the world is a terrible place and sex is no longer beautiful or seen as it should "ideally" be seen. But i suppose that is what heaven is for and as you surely know most of the people who have lived and in this world are sadly corrupted and will not enter through the narrow gates.
I think you should be thankful you met such a wonderful man and be happy you two have your heart to give each other and to love each other. I read the OP and i saw where he was coming from (i am a guy) and i tried to put myself in his shoes and i came to a conclusion i would not have married if it bothered me that much. Than i kept reading and i realize that women seem to overlook men's pasts i suppose they have to as men tend to have more partners so i saw it from a woman's perspective i guess. However me personally i always knew what i wanted i was blessed to grow up with great women in my life and i attended school with good girls who had their head's on straight. I knew the world had beautiful and great women who would one day make great wives so as the year's went by i dated and all that jazz i was never one for one night stands and i typically dated "good" girls. I knew what i wanted and i tried to avoid people with crazy past's and drug users or anything i saw as weakness or corruption, not saying i hated those people i just did not want to date someone like that. I dated a girl once and i was always an honest guy i told her everything and she did to me (I am glad) i found out as i learned more about her and her past and who she was that i was not so into her as i thought not only that but we were vastly different and we started to agree on almost NOTHING.
I think a person's past is very often reflective of their current day self's NOT ALWAYS but its always refelective of who they were. From there you can get a good reading on the type of behavior they may exhibit. If you are truly honest and open you can see into a person more and who they are and if you both truly love each other you will accept it and not be disgusted or distressed you will forget it and love them for who they are now and you will be accepting of their past. The last thing you want to do is keep that stuff hidden and marry without ever truly knowing the person and than realizing year's down the line you have nothing in common and you two are polar opposites who have vastly different lives and view's on life.
Well said goldmember357, and for CTFather post, sex is not a small part of the relationship....it defines it, it is the litmus test, if a committed couple(a must) have a wonderful time in the bedroom then there most likely will be no unhandleable issues for them, if they do have problems then the bedroom is where the the problems show up first at the most intimate time, and Happygolucky, you are normal, your view on lovemaking is just right, they guy who has had 4 virgins before actually is spiritually married to them all, people like to forget the past has any effect on the future but without revealing it for what it is and understanding it and then dealing with it with the right tools then the past can be left and will not effect the future, without this it always will, this reply is for only people who understand scripture from a hebrew understanding.
Like other men who have written since the inception of this thread, I too have struggled with jealousy. My first girlfriend was not a virgin when we met and I was. We married and I struggled with this for years, until we divorced. My second wife was a virgin and I was not, and yet I still struggled. I would think about the first boy she kissed (the sum total of her sexual past). They had had a one-evening makeout session which was quite innocent. At one point, he put his hand on her breast, over her shirt and sweater and she pulled it away. And yet that quick grope used to drive me crazy, which shows one can get caught up in anything.
There was something very lovely about being with her though. I carried a lot of idealism around virginity and the fact that she had chosen me to receive this gift meant a great deal to me. Perhaps for this reason, I was able to easily give her my entire heart and then she gave me all of hers. It was a very beautiful relationship for a few years. And then it failed anyway, proving to my satisfaction that virginity is no panacea and no substitute for relationship skills.
After that, I dated several women and had a more typical experience. I've now had ten or more sexual partners (depending on how one measures). Given all the time I'd spent in two marriages (my first and second sexual experiences), most of the women I dated had had far more partners than me and it always bothered me. Slowly and over time, this seemed less and less important but it never went away entirely.
Now I'm engaged to be married again. I'm 49 years old. My fiance is 37 and has a sexual past. And she's an extremely loving, empathetic jewel of a woman. Mostly, I can set aside the past but every now and again it rears up like a demon. The other day she mentioned a sexual experience in passing -- some guy she had gone out on a single date with when she was 23. She had let him massage her back and then her chest. She didn't want to have sex so he asked if she could "help him out" and she, to use her words, "jacked him off."
I don't recall why she mentioned this but it really bothered me. I couldn't get away from the images this left in my mind. And to think he'd had her when she was younger and prettier, and that there was no cost to him (it was just a one-night thing) left me so upset. I felt like she had given something precious to him and it wasn't fair. I fell into a depression over it, wondering how I was going to marry her if such things continued to bother me so much.
For her part, she was wonderful. She was very understanding and honest. She made clear this was not an important experience, that none of her sexual past meant anything to her, and that she never touched anyone with the love that's in her hands when she touches me. She would happily give it all up if she could turn back the clock. But none of this helped. I wanted her all for myself and it seemed like that could never happen.
But this latest crisis forced me to wrestle more deeply and I didn't give up. After a few days of intense pain, a wise friend suggested I need to have compassion for the young boy who took in values and ideals around sexuality that, while idealistic and beautiful, were not serving me in this world as it is now and not opening my heart to love. She said I should think of the little boy I once was as a victim and approach him with empathy. Then she said I need to stop trying to make this go away. When the feelings come up, don't wrestle with them; just let them be. Be present with the pain, with compassion for myself, and ask God to help me. It really worked. Before long, I felt compassion not only for the little boy I once was, but also for the man I am now, and for my fiance, and for everyone who wrestles with these issues.
Since then, everything has shifted. I no longer fear those thoughts because I have learned to let them be and, when I do, they let me be. In other words, I now know how to let them go (but without force and without any effort to make them go away). Each time I do this, I'm returned to the reality that my fiance is a wonderful woman with a heart of gold who loves me and that I am the love of her life. And since those old thoughts have nothing to grasp onto, they don't come around very often.
I've read through this entire thread and registered as a user in order to help others who struggle in this way. I was surprised to see how many men like me there are. I had kind of thought myself a freak. Apparently not. But most of you are so much younger, with so many years ahead. So you, unlike me, don't have to wait until you're nearly 50 years old to get past this. The real beauty is not in sexual purity, although that is itself very beautiful and something worth inviting back into our culture. Yet it's beauty can become a sort of idolatry if we forget that what it's really about is keeping us open for love. The deepest beauty comes from love and compassion itself. For those who are inclined to think in these terms, beauty comes from our connection to God (or to true self if you prefer, which is our deep connection to everyone and everything).
So my advice is, when you have difficult thoughts around your partner's past, think of the child you were who took on the ideals that give rise to your pain. Know that not everyone thinks this way. Know that your ideals are very beautiful. Know that they're not a great fit in our modern culture. Have compassion for yourself. Let the difficult feelings be. Know they are a reflection of your beauty. Don't try to change them. Just watch them and see what happens. Ask God or spirit or the universe or your intuition to guide you. And let go.
Know that with patience and compassion, you will see the deeper truth. I don't know what that will be for you. Perhaps you will be guided to see that what's best is to leave your partner and find a virgin. I don't rule that out. If that's what you need, it's what you need and there's nothing wrong with it. But I can truly say it's not what I need. If I were 20, maybe I would. But at almost 50, that wouldn't feel like the deepest truth.
I also want to say how much I admire those men who, unlike me, never found their virgin and yet still managed to turn their hearts to their wives and love them completely. What courage that must have taken.
Finally, wherever you (the person reading these words) are with this, I send you love and I wish you God's blessings.
I need help letting go too. My wife was raped very young and ended up in many drunken blacked out states that resulted in similar situations.
When I met my wife 11 years ago I had only a 3 year relationship (that I didn't have sex in) and another separate one-night stand under my belt. I wish I could have meaningless sex with women, but that night proved to me I require a deep loving connection.
At first my wife and I had great sex, but something was void and when I questioned her on it she went into therapy. Then the sex ended, she has been healing, and now that things are starting to improve -- I am the one with the problem.
I turned down many opportunities to sleep with women that had impaired judgement and I not only feel that I am better that the douche bags that took advantage of my wife -- I want to kill them.
I don't judge her, I judge them. The hate is so great my body shakes violently like the beginning stages of hypothermia when I think about it. Even right now as I type. A therapist said it was a form of anxiety.
I feel that my wife has been getting through it, and now my intense emotions are holding us back. I need to let go, I just don't know how.
When with a girl who has had a lot of partners or been around or however you want to put it, i have not felt jealous, jealousy is only skin deep because what really drove me mad was the thought of: "How could she have done that?" or "how does she simply walk into a bar or whatever place and picks up a guy and screws him?!" thats what it really is about it doesnt matter if the other guy was bigger or smaller than me or whatever it is the casual attitude of my partner to sex that causes insecurities.
What i don't know is: Do these people really change? What if it is all part of their plan? I will fool around until x age and than settle down? Is this changing?
When with a girl who has had a lot of partners or been around or however you want to put it, i have not felt jealous, jealousy is only skin deep because what really drove me mad was the thought of: "How could she have done that?" or "how does she simply walk into a bar or whatever place and picks up a guy and screws him?!" thats what it really is about it doesnt matter if the other guy was bigger or smaller than me or whatever it is the casual attitude of my partner to sex that causes insecurities.
What i don't know is: Do these people really change? What if it is all part of their plan? I will fool around until x age and than settle down? Is this changing?
This is how my husband & some men feel on this ...he has never been one to engage in "casual sex" ....sounds similar to your thoughts...
Quote:
The higher the # of sexual partners ~ if she is still single after many yrs/ broken relationships......not finding "Lasting love" that is sustainable, in the back of his mind - the more likelihood something is seriously wrong with her.... whether it be:
1. Her bad choicesin men.
2. Why is noone sweeping her off her feet wanting to commit .... or
3. She is just in it for the pleasurable BANG & has little or no interest in a lifelong commitment & settling down.
Very heated thread here with a variety of views >>
I suffer similar thoughts and haunting images of my wife's past, we have been together 5 years, married 2 years, she has a teenage child from an other marriage.
I came from a one person relationship that lasted 28 years and hit the dating seen 6 months before meeting my wife, she was my first date in almost 30 years!
needless to say over the last few years now I relized how things have changed and how naive I was to the "new" age of relationships, I came from a small town raised on Christian beliefs, I met my wife in the city, she was born in Asia and definitely gained very different values and beliefs long before I did.
Our relation was a whirlwind, I fell in love with her at first sight (the naive part of me) we moved in together with in 4 months and engaged after a year.
Now I am not entirely stupid and with out a defencive guard, I did and do have some priorities of what I expect from people, respect and honesty is at the top of the list! because I fell for her so fast and hard, I believe I did let my guard down and tended to automatically trust.
So, in the beginning I asked her some questions about her past, she told me her and her ex husband had problems, grew apart and divorced, she said she did some dating over a 4 yr period between him and me but nothing special nothing lasting? I asked how many guys she had been with romantically, she said 4.
That satisfied my curiosities at that time, I felt I was with someone that was reserved and cautious about the second time around and relationships...perfect! Hmmmm!
Well fast forwarding to today, I have found out things were not so simple and far from the truth, yes most of my findings were through snooping and digging, e-mails, old phones with old texts still in them an old picture CD and some old letters!! also a few late night card games with a couple in laws that got loosed lipped after a couple beer only confirmed my findings.
Truth is she did have issues with her husband alright, she fell for the tenant they had in the basement while her husband worked night shift! that same guy she moved out with got pregnant and had an abortion, since that pint and meeting me she has 8 more guys that I know of and was very promiscuous and flirtatious.
I have never confronted her with the affair, abortion or more guys than she admitted, but I did drop some hints and asked some questions if she had ever done anything like that useing someone else as an example, she denied everything except when we were arguing she admitted to making a mistake and got pregnant! besides that her mouth is shut about the rest and she denies anything like that and is a hypocrite by saying that people that do that are low life's!!
so ya I have these haunting images and ghosts in my head all the time, she knows a have some but she dose not know I know a whole bunch more, she thinks it is just the fact that she had relationships before me, and tells me I am old fashioned and need to live in the 21st century!
I have been to counseling, it helped some, but not entirely, I guess I am a sofly since I cant bring myself to drop the bombshell and expose everything I know, I know this will hurt her, we will fight for a long time and it may cause irreparable damage, problem is we love each other and I would rather live with my silence than with out her (at least at this point in my life!)
Now to the critics, yes I have heard all the old sayings, dont be insecure! live in the 21st century! she is with you now the rest meant nothing! you are the one she loves! blah, blah, blah,.... I find these all excuses, people will come up with this crap when they are defending "THEIR" lifestyles to deflect peoples opinions of them or to save their own dignities, if I had a dollar for every time I have herd someone say "dont judge me" what a load of crap!
So thats my rant, to the people out there that have gone or going through this, it ain't easy, dont let the free spirits tell you it is no big deal, emotions and feelings run deep and sometimes you cant just snap your fingers and it go's away, people have to be responsible for their actions and sometime they have to face then with consequences!! yup some more bad words, being "responsible".
Just curious about the original post are you still having these thoughts and issues? I would have thought I wrote this as I'm going through this with my fiance ? I mean almost word for word your post is so what I have been experiencing. If not what helped ?
I've discovered this thread and read it with great interest after having similar issues myself. It's some comfort that I'm not alone.
I've been married to my wife for 13 years, and we've been together 18 years.
I made, what I perceive to be a mistake right at the beginning when were 'dating' asking her about previous boyfriends and past relationships, and even now it's still eating me up, from time to time.
I can go long lengths of time with no concerns then something will trigger my feelings of jealousy.
I have no concerns whatsoever of her relationships, just that SINGLE one-night stand she had on holiday when she was 18-19 (before I knew she even existed).For the record my wife is is the 4th women Ive 'slept' with and the 5th was 'sexual-encounter'. She said her's was 11 including 2 one night stands.
My wife did, when I first asked, say she had 2 one-night stands. I dismissed the second as she said she slept with the guy and he never called her. She is cautious with her language but did refer the guy as a "f*****g w****r".
Also she said, when I was (unfairly) quizzing her that "You dont know how many times I sat by the phone, crying, waiting for it too ring".
It's completely illogical but incredibly destructive. Like most guys here the thoughts are total self-destruction. We have talked about it and, I hate to admit it, my response wasnt very grown-upo and left her feeling devalued. Something I am truly ashamed of.
What is it about the one night stand? Is it she gave herself up for 'casual' sex so easily?
Is it the tip of the iceberg, is she hiding more? I want to ask more questions but know it would have the opposite effect and cause more problems.
In my mind I have created a 'monster', a real **** and I hate myself for it.
I want to forget and move on but its not so easy.
In my mind (she tells me I have an active imagination) I play over so many scenarios of her having amazing sex with some great stud.
Its easy for to her say but I never had a one-night stand.(my encounter was with a girl who'd I'd been dating for months but it never went all the way)
I did have some 'opportunities' but chose to ignore them, taking the morale high-ground.
On the original OP's thing about size, I also asked her in the early days had she been with anyone 'bigger', she said she had but the sex was too painful. Strangely enough that doesn't bother me, our sex life has always been good and both of us are genuinely satisfied.
When I talk or see other girls/women talking about numerous partners, one-stands etc I don't care, its their life and their past, but my wife is my wife. This is irrational (unfair) possession (which I know is wrong)
I have been to seen my GP (Doctor here in the UK) and has started a process to get me on to some counselling. I am so relieved, I need to sort this out. As I told my wife about my comments on her past "It's not you personally, if I was with someone else I'd feel the same"
The issue is with me and I need to get to the bottom of it.
In my mind I have 'built a bridge' that connects the woman I love to the one I never knew. Its as if I am connecting my wife and that that teenage girl together like they are one and the present is her past. (Does that make sense?)
I hope others out there draw comfort from this.
One final thing, we'd been together for only 7 months when she hinted that she would propose the following year (as it was a Leap Year). I felt more secure at that suggestion than I'd ever known. The thought that I was good enough for her to propose to was a real 'Wow', it took a shining steel sword to my demons. She did propose and I accepted.
What has changed over they years? I now say that "You only married me because you'll do". A comment she rejects outright by saying I'm the right one for her and always will be. "If I didn't love you I'd have left a long time ago" (a comment directed squarely at the jaw of my jealousy quizzing)
I forgot to add to my above post, we're both in our 40's and I have no reason to suspect my wife has ever been behind my back. I had my moments (like most do) when I wonder and these thoughts have fizzled out.
I accept that the 'monster' is in my head and therefore its me, but the thought processes are killing me and I cant wait for my counselling to start.
I have toyed with the idea of walking out but I know I'd only take the problem with me.
Counselling for me.
I started a thread of this nature a few weeks ago, titles 'A Possible Haunting Past'. I am still dealing with these thoughts, even though we have had a successful almost 22 year marriage thus far. In short, my issue was I recently found out that she may have not been truthful about her 'number' all those many years ago, and it may be much higher than I could have ever expected, considering how she portrays herself as sexually naive.
On that thread I was warned over and over again not to bring it up because it can only cause problems. So far, I have not. That doesn't mean those thoughts are going away. And some days are unbearable. At some point I'm sure I will. But it would have to be done in a non confrontational way. Until then, the internal struggle continues.
Here is how I see it. When the two of you are dating, it is good to talk about your pasts to get an idea of if the two of you are compatible. Assuming you two can be candid about your pasts, if you marry then it is assumed that you were OK with the past relationships and should no longer dwell on them.
In situations where you were deceived and later found out, I suppose that is trickier and it should be weighed on how good the rest of the relationship is.
Thunder, I know exactly how you feel. One of my concerns is the number may not be truly accurate. (I can feel my stomach somersault and legs tremble even as I type this).
I have to find a way to stop me trying to dig more. All will be met with a closed door as I was horribly intrusive in the early days, asking all kinds of questions, some not so pleasant.
I know how you feel about some days being so unbearable, it feels its driving me insane. It totally consumes me and therefore I just feel my life is in suspension.
What also hurts is that she says "You can't accept I had a life before you". That is true and why I shouldn't push. I can't change anything and her day to day honesty in all matters is always direct and sometimes brutal.
I have more questions but they will only lead to more.
Its so self-destructive.
If I left this marriage I know I'd go through the same jealous feelings all over, which is why I have to accept the problem lies with me.
When I first asked these questions 18 years ago on the telephone I asked how many, she said 11 and a couple of 1 night stands. My immediate reaction was "I can't cope with this" at which she began to cry and said "Please don't, please"
I felt so sorry because I'd also heard of how guys had treated her badly, not calling, being mean to her etc.
Sometimes I feel I have 'sucker' on my forehead.
Like I said earlier, I have no reason to believe she has ever been anything other than loyal (we all have the odd twinge of doubt). Our ground rules from the very beginning were no infidelity would be tolerated. Her father left her mother when she was 12 y/o and she was devastated and I know she has insecurities too, but hides it well. She hated it when I was 35 y/o as that was the age her father left and she confided that she thought I'd "trade her in for a younger model". Occasionally her insecurities will slip, like the time I received a text message at 8am. She blurted out "Who is that at this time of the today" I was genuinely shocked.
Two sides to every story I guess.
One more thing, we are all guilty of putting our spouses on a pedestal and imagine them having an almost virginal existence. We don't want to see it any other way. Too much romance I guess. (That hurt to say)
There's going to be a whole generation now having to grow up with pics of their new partners who thought it'd be cool to post pics of themselves on any number of websites. Ouch!
I have had problems with unhappy thoughts about the past (still do occasionally) though mine centre rather on an unhappy childhood as a result of being abandoned as a 10 year old child.
I think dwelling on bad things from the past is only of value if you learn lessons from it. Otherwise it is just a way of making yourself miserable.
Life is best lived in the present. Build good memories now for the time when you may be so old and weak that all you can do is sit and relive the memories.
trytingtodobetter - a sound bit of advice. Unfortunately at this exact moment I can't see that far ahead. I want to quiz her again, was she telling me the truth all those years ago. If not then think I want a divorce despite having 18 good yrs together. It goes against everything I typed earlier but right this minute I'm in a real pit of despair. - huge downer.
Well, I made the mistake of saying to my wife tonight about numbers and she quite rightly, and curtly was quite abrupt when she said
"I'm not talking about it, we've been through it before"
As I said before, we did at the very beginning, 18 yrs ago and her honesty was 'abused' by my horrible questioning and implications.
I then told her my fears were she had a better life before she met me.
Her answer "In your mind" just as she'd said in the early days, "If my life was so good why am I not still leading it now" and tonight she 'reminded' me "I've loved you since I first met you"
I guess my marriage is more important than my jealousy and low self-esteem so no more talk until I get to my counselling. Some people never even get 18 yrs of true love and others get 70 yrs. Count my blessings and appreciate it when she says "You're the most important thing"
Am I waffling, maybe, but, like most here my head is so full of rubbish, like a ball of twine with no beginning or end.
I know from so many years that when i feel good in myself the past doesn't bother me. It's irrelevant, I have a past too.
If I can get counselling, then anyone can.
The day before I went to my doctor I was insisting that 23 y/o with a bit of paper doesn't know my mind. The next day I made an appointment. I need help and feel better I asked.
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Re: SUPER jealous of wife's past 
