daddyo73

Hello everyone,

So I'm fairly new to the site and forum having found it in searches. I know this isn't the newest of topics, but I imagine every version has its own story and background, so any advice is appreciated...

Yesterday my wife and I had a confrontation of sorts. We started arguing in the morning about a relatively minor topic and it ended with her yelling at me. We left the house to take our three kids (5, 9, 11) to school and I headed to work. However, this was maybe the third time in 8 years (5 married... 5 years today actually) that one of us has raised our voice at each other so I knew something was very wrong. I'd had a sense for a while now... lack of affection, overly hostile, stressed, etc... and I decided it was time to bring it to a head.

So I headed back home and asked her what was wrong. We talked... talked like we hadn't talked in a long time quite frankly. We talked for about two hours about our relationship. She's not happy. She's not happy though for many reasons such as depression, work, her ex and how he treats their two kids, her stalled education. She's also not happy with us. She feels that we don't have anything in common anymore and that we've drifted apart.

Near the end I asked her if she loved me and she said yes, that she deeply loves me, she's just not in love with me. That she doesn't want us to be a couple that's together "just for the sake of the kids" and then splits in 12 years when the youngest is done with school. She wants to be happy and wants to be in love.

Time is not infinite so we couldn't simply talk all day... so we left it at we're going to have to figure out our next steps. If we want this to work then there has to be next steps. She did not say she wants a divorce or that she wants me out. She did say that she has thought about whether she could handle being a single mom of three kids, both logistically and financially.

After leaving the house I felt pretty devastated. I love my wife very, very much. I met her shortly after she left her first husband, and maybe even too soon after. But what's done is done, nothing can change that. We dated for two years and then got married. We have a son together who I absolutely adore, and he and I have an amazing bond. My wife spent much of 2007-2009 in nursing school so I have been our son's primary caregiver for most of his life. And much the same applies to my stepchildren as well.

I immediately called my company's EAP and went and saw a counselor. She gave me some ideas and strategies, she also recommended a book The Divorce Remedy. I've ordered the book (gotta love small towns with only one bookstore!) and read some of it online already. Just my short session with the counselor did help me realize that I have neglected her and taken our relationship for granted.

Three more factors... in March she got a new job that was full-time and required working three out of four weekends a month. I work M-F with weekends off. So now we went from having almost every weekend off to never having them off except one in a while. And on those weekends she was often catching up with friends and I was doing a volunteer gig I do.

Second factor is that before she took her new job, her old job was cutting her hours drastically. We ran into money problems and I worked them as best I could. She hates money and dealing with it so I didn't tell her. Finally, at the end of July/early August I came clean and told her how we were struggling, how we had to use payday loans to make cashflow week to week. Since then we've cleaned all of those loans up, put ourselves on a solid budget and are even tackling our combined debt. But I know the money issue still dogs her and there is a lack of trust there (which I readily admit I've earned).

Third, she is clinically depressed. She takes Wellbutrin and it's helped, but she's still depressed. She says that maybe she's just confused... maybe if she didn't have the depression she wouldn't feel like this at all...

Since the talk yesterday things have been better. We talk now and even give goodbye and goodnight kisses again. I don't think for a moment that all is good. Tonight we went for our anniversary dinner and had a good time. We laughed and talked like we hadn't in... well, I actually can't remember the last time we did that. It's been that long. I forgot what an amazing woman she is to spend time with.

I wrote her a letter tonight telling her that I am going to put together the next steps for the two of us to take. I plan to read and follow the steps of the book my counselor recommended. I plan to return to counseling and am going to try to get her to go too. I will make dates with my wife and stop taking our relationship for granted.

I am wondering what I'm missing... if there are things you would do? things I should try? I've stopped trying to be the super-pleaser... that just tires me out and pisses her off anyway. I've started working to go back to who I was and act how I used to act before I got desperate feeling I was losing her.

One other item that I'd appreciate suggestions on is how to deal with the anger. I'm not constantly angry at her, but it does come. Usually when I'm reading to my son or playing ball with him and I think that she would jeopardize this relationship over all of this. I hear her complain to me about the deadbeats, abusers, drug addicts, and bums that her girlfriends live with and are married too. I'm not that... I make good money, believe I am a great dad, sit on local elected boards, and am a community leader. And I think... really? You'd threaten all this over thinking you're not in love anymore? And then I get angry. I don't vent at her but it's not healthy storing it up either.

the guy

Are there any red flags that would indicate another man?

Jellybeans

All of the signs are there for an affair. Find out if she's having one. Do some snooping with her fone records but don't ask outright cause she will deny. Rule it out first. You saaid you've neglected her. How? Explain with more detail. Wome need a good emotional connection to feel loved and to love. Do not beg her to stay or pursue her. It will turn her off.
Posted via Mobile Device

turnera

New job...likely met a man who she at LEAST has thoughts about...which led to the greener pastures.

She gave you the ILYBINILWY speech, which ALMOST ALWAYS is because of another man. Look it up. And start checking the phone records for one single number that shows up a lot.

That said, you can do a lot to improve your marriage. For one, you should be spending 10-15 hours a week together WITHOUT the kids/work/household stuff. You need to do SOMETHING about the two jobs not overlapping. That's the kiss of death to your marriage.

Finally, stop being the super-pleaser. Women need their men to be strong. Alphas.

daddyo73

I started out, when the wierdness started creeping in a few months ago, in the belief she was having an affair. So I did the checking up things mentioned above. I looked at phone records, email, Facebook... nothing. Nothing at all. She did attend a music festival/party with some friends a ways away and there was a guy there. I think maybe she saw him and got a bit of "greener pastures" feeling but that is complete speculation. At the same time I don't think she's ever had an affair or cheated on me with him or anyone else. I know, that sounds like a sucker, but it is what it is. Her assurances combined with my checking and investigation lead me there, so it's not just her word.

The overlapping job thing is about to get somewhat better. She has a new job that will only require 3 days one week and four the next with far less weekends. When we had our "talk" she said that she wants this music fest with her friends next weekend to be the last "really going out" for a long time. She wants to be home. She wants to figure herself (and I think by extension, us) out. When I met with the counselor I felt like a complete ass, because it was only then that I realized I was using her working weekends as an excuse for not having to put forth effort. I can hear myself saying, "Man, it'd be cool to go to X festival this weekend, but too bad you have to work." Like saying it gives me half-credit or something... stupid. Could I have taken days off of work to be with her? Of course. Could I have flexed my schedule to spend time with her? Yes. And I feel like a complete idiot now for not investing that time or even thinking about it.

During our talk she said she is confused.. and I genuinely believe her. And not confused about us per se, but life. She married very young (20) and had her first baby on her first wedding day... marrying that man and knowing as she married him that she would some day leave him. She had a second child with him and then at 23 left him. Then we met and got married when she was 26 after dating for two years. She didn't get much single time or much married with no kids time, and now when she is with friends she can see what their lives are like.

I haven't begged her to stay or anything like that. I've wanted to but have resisted. I haven't even cried or broken down around her because that's a big turn off for her. I simply wrote her a letter that tells her I love her, that says I want us to be good parents and good spouses, took accountability for things I haven't done and have done, and told her I was committed to make this work. That it might take some time, but that I was committed. I didn't even ask her for a commitment. She read the letter last night after we got home. I left her alone to read it, but I know she teared up and was emotional. She said she needs time to process it, which I believe and yesterday was an absolutely long day since she had to work at 5:30 am and we didn't get home until 9 and it was go-go all the rest of the day.

Atholk

Sounds like you guys have just bottled up the communication for a long time.

Start texting each other during the day.

__________________
The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 is available to buy! Love, Sex, Nice Guys, Alpha, Beta, Dealing With Cheating, Oneitis, Sexless Marriages, Sex Rank, Body Agenda, Sexy Moves, Seduction Skills and more! 344 pages of high quality practical information. The MMSL Primer Book

Jellybeans

I like what you wrote her in the letter. Now the ball is in her court. Don't cry or do any of that sruff mentioned. Elaborate on the guy at the festival. When was the festival. You saaid weirdness started a few months ago. Explain.
Posted via Mobile Device

daddyo73

The wierdness started in probably late Spring/early Summer. About two months after her new job and her having to work every weekend. It also started a little bit after we had the money problems that I was shielding her from. One of the reasons I wouldn't push us going out anywhere was that I knew we didn't have the money for it... so if she didn't want to push the issue I wouldn't either. And in hindsight I can think of multiple times where she said "we should do something this weekend" (say the one weekend we had off) and I'd give a non-committal reply or shrug and say "yeah, sure" and let it rest. Looking back I can easily see how that could be interpreted as lack of interest and caring for her. It really was meant as "we don't have the money" but that's in the past now too...

So one of these weekends she gets invited by some friends to a music party about two hours away. She asks if she can go and I want her to be happy and have a good time so I say sure. It's sort of last minute so one of us has to stay home and do childcare, so I volunteer (also knowing it's cheaper if one goes instead of two). She goes and has a good time, though at one point mid-event she texts me from there saying it's raining, it's a mess, and she wishes she had just stayed home and curled up with me.

The party's host is an artist and musician. From the looks of it a pretty neat and creative guy. When she comes back from that the wierdness gets even more severe. That was our first conversation about whether she was happy or not. That was when she revealed she isn't, but not about us, just about life. That something's wrong and she doesn't know what. That she's depressed and needs to get medication (which she has since done and has helped some), that she's frustrated that she can't start school until the summer, she has body image issues (though she looks amazing), and other issues.

I asked her then if she was happy with us and got a "yes" but not an emphatic or absolute. And she said she loved me then too. She said she'd wish I'd take better care of myself, lose weight, etc... (and she's right, when we met I was maybe 200.. as of that conversation I was up to 241, and that made me get serious so now down to 229 and headed downward. In the mean time she's lost probably 45 pounds since January and looks great!). She said she worries that if I don't change my ways I'll die on her at 50 and leave her a widower (which, considering I suspected an affair had me totally confused). I actually didn't confront her about the affair suspicion because I was going to but called a counselor through our an assistance program and they talked me down from the ledge. That counselor looked at my "evidence" and told me I was crazy and wrong-headed. Looking back I owe that counselor a huge thank-you... that accusation may have ended everything.

She texted back and forth a few times with the party host. That got me alarmed, but I checked her texts and none were salacious and stuff, just asking if he was going to go to a big concert her and her friends were going to later in the summer. She did delete some texts and facebook chats with him, so that still has me wonder if there weren't feelings there. But I am very confident he hasn't returned those feelings at all... her last text to him was over a month ago and was never returned, and it was simply thanking him for a book recommendation. I also installed a logging program to log FB chats but they never came up with anything and she had no clue there were there. And part of me thinks she deleted the chats because she suspected I was checking and thought chatting with this new guy she met would probably upset me... which is fairly accurate.

And so that's that on the festival and "the guy".

seeking sanity

Well the good news in this is that you are on it, and well ahead of the curve for most.

Do you both exercise? Depression is very tough to deal with for both partners, and exercise is probably the best thing a person can do to manage it.

Anti depressants can have a brutal effect on someones mindset. I once read an article that basically linked antidepressants to marital unhappiness and infidelity. (Can remember where I read it.) In some ways I think they can hurt as much as they can help.

I'd proceed three ways:

1. Do the 'needs' assessment with her from Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice - a deliberately go about meeting her needs
2. Get on a regular exercise program together
3. Keep monitoring - sounds like she's got a crush, which has opened up some feelings for her.

Lon

Daddyo, I can relate so much to your story, the decisions we BOTH made that prevented us from spending more time together, me letting her go out to have fun more because I wanted her to be happy even though it meant less fun for me (my way of giving), accepting my neglect of the marriage and doing what she needed. But even after first round of counseling I was making progress and she said it wasn't working that she just wasn't attracted sexually to me. That's where I knew things were F'd up, and I had no idea what to do. I went to individual counseling to try to kickstart my drive in life again, but wasn't getting anywhere (after several sessions the counseler said I just needed a vacation, and that when I got this surgery I was waiting for should make it a lot better). Anyways, I left things on that course for way too long before inevitably getting the ILYBINILWY talk, said right there she wanted a divorce... of course, she didn't actually move out or call a lawyer, just needed to get those words off her chest - as I found out over the course of the next several weeks it was to pursue her affairs, the things I saw all started to make sense: she was losing weight and spending a lot on new clothes, putting on the makeup extra heavy, had several new sexy panties that she never wore around me, was hiding her cell phone a lot etc.

I think this is the reason people have suggested adamantly your W is having an affair. But if you are confident that isn't the case there is definitely work you can do right now to start getting the spark back, but it will take both of you to commit to the marriage. MC is the first recommendation, start learning about each others needs and make sure you are meeting hers, and also she is meeting yours, find out about love languages (don't waste any more effort on things she can't even appreciate), and remember that actions speak louder than words... She wants a fit husband, then start lifting weights and show her what she wants, man up a little and stand up for your own needs a little more, don't say yes unless you mean it.

Entropy3000

Entropy3000

I would go to the festival with her .... AT ALL COSTS.

If you decide to not do this, write this down as it is going to haunt you.

daddyo73

She is not cheating, I'm very confident of that. She leaves her phone laying around and I can see it whenever I want. Nothing there. I can track our phone usage and text usage and for the last three months she had idea I could do that. The music festival is in the past so that's not really applicable.

I am exercising regularly as is she. I'm working on weight loss, got a new haircut/style, and working on how I look. I want to approach her about going to MC but not sure how to broach the topic. I believe she really is confused and that a lot of this is wrapped up in her illness, but that's what scares me too since the illness adds an unstable element into the equation.
Posted via Mobile Device

grizabella

If all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I would say to not put much creedence in an affair and pay more attention to your relatiomship. Fatigue and depression can play havoc with your sex life and without that you lose connectedness.

Anyway you can get away for a weekend or an overnight, get someone to watch the kids? It is imperitive to have that private time, to just focus on each other. We share so much of our lives with others it seems like we all live in a reality show. If you can't get away, put the kids to bed early and go to your bedroom and close the door on the world. It doesn't need to be sexual but should be heavily physical. It's easier to feel love feom someone when you are in their arms. Candles,wine, bubblebath, massage...whatever you can think of to be relaxed. You don't have to try to work it all out, just be together. And to quote an old joke. see what pops up(I couldn't resist). Bon Chance!

turnera

She's not cheating...but she WANTS to. She WANTS the attention of a 'real man' to get her heart pounding. Like the festival guy. Are you going to BE that guy or are you just gonna talk?

Do NOT let her go to that festival without you. Beg, barter, whatever you have to do to get babysitting, but GO WITH HER. Make it a romantic weekend, even around her friends, and show her YOU can be the guy she dreams of.

Have you started figuring out how to spend more time with her yet?

Before you do the Emotional Needs questionnaire, do the Love Buster one. You have to remove the LBs before you try to meet ENs.