Depression and sleep cycle - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2016, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Depression and sleep cycle

It seems, at least to me, that perhaps the lack of REM sleep is causing my wife to go in and out of a depressive state. Some days, she's pleasant, other days, it's like a bat out of hell. More stressed she is, the less sleep she receives; thus starts a cycle. Like I said before, she had a week off, and all she did is mostly sleep. I would like her to go to a sleep doctor, but she refuses. That might be the thing that brings her back to normalcy.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2016, 12:47 AM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

I have Depression and sleep apnea. I put off treatment for both for a very long time. It was not until I started to fall asleep at the wheel of my car, during work and while talking to my wife, that I went to a sleep center in the hospital near me. They tested me and found that I stopped breathing over 400 times a night. I was put on a CPAP machine which just blows air through your airways to keep them from collapsing and stopping your breathing. All of a sudden I was not tired all day, even after 10 hours of sleep.

I started feeling depressed after 9/11. I witnessed it in person close enough to see people jumping to their deaths rather than to be burned to death. It took almost two years to find something that worked and did not take away my sex life. I started to go to bed quicker and stopped my obsessive negative thinking of what may happen but never did. I used to lay in bed every morning trying to find a reason to get out of bed.

Seeking medical treatment turned out to be the best thing I did in my life. I had a very good life. I was living with my wife and a girlfriend we shared. I have a job that I love and pays me very good money. I never had to worry about paying the bills. Yet I felt depressed all the time.

You wife sounds like she may be bi-polar. I have know a few bi-polar people and they do act like your wife does. I do not think her sleep has much to do with the way she is acting because it is usually the depression that causes sleep problems and not the other way around. I am not doctor and am just giving my opinion based on personal experience with people with sleep disorders and various forms of depression and manic behavior.

Sleep and psychological disorders often go hand in hand and it is sort of a which came first problem. Treating my sleep apnea did nothing for my depression or insomnia. Try to get her to talk to her doctor. It took me a very long time to admit that I had a problem.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2016, 01:00 AM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

Yep, get her to a sleep doctor. It could be sleep apnea, insomnia or just really bad sleep hygiene.

Sleep problems can cause depression.

when I say sleep doctor I mean a specialist. If you do not go to a good sleep doctor, some insurance companies are trying to force people to do in home sleep tests. They are crap to be honest. She needs to go into a clinic, spend the night and have a monitored sleep test.

If she does not want to go, make the appointment yourself and tell her that she has to because her state is hurting the relationship.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2016, 01:01 AM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

"it is usually the depression that causes sleep problems and not the other way around."

Not true at all. That's simply your experience. Mine is the opposite.

long term sleep problems will cause depression, it is just poor physiology. You are constantly tired, with no energy, all you want is too sleep, nothing makes you happy anymore because you just too tired - if this is happening over long time, it would be strange if it did not cause depression. I fell into depression and gained 30 pounds in eight months, all because of the sleep problems. Once fixed - lost 40 pounds and got all energy back, no depression what so ever.

I do not really understand why your wife does not want to seek help with sleep. This is not sustainable. Unless the previsous poster is right and she is depressed, and knows that this is her problem and that's why does not want to do anything about it.

Not mentioning that sleep deprivation kills our brain cells. Recent studies show more and more corellation between sleep problems and Alzheimer.

"There was another life that I might have had, but I am having this one. - Kazuo Ishiguro
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2016, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

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Originally Posted by Vinnydee View Post
I have Depression and sleep apnea. I put off treatment for both for a very long time. It was not until I started to fall asleep at the wheel of my car, during work and while talking to my wife, that I went to a sleep center in the hospital near me. They tested me and found that I stopped breathing over 400 times a night. I was put on a CPAP machine which just blows air through your airways to keep them from collapsing and stopping your breathing. All of a sudden I was not tired all day, even after 10 hours of sleep.

I started feeling depressed after 9/11. I witnessed it in person close enough to see people jumping to their deaths rather than to be burned to death. It took almost two years to find something that worked and did not take away my sex life. I started to go to bed quicker and stopped my obsessive negative thinking of what may happen but never did. I used to lay in bed every morning trying to find a reason to get out of bed.

Seeking medical treatment turned out to be the best thing I did in my life. I had a very good life. I was living with my wife and a girlfriend we shared. I have a job that I love and pays me very good money. I never had to worry about paying the bills. Yet I felt depressed all the time.

You wife sounds like she may be bi-polar. I have know a few bi-polar people and they do act like your wife does. I do not think her sleep has much to do with the way she is acting because it is usually the depression that causes sleep problems and not the other way around. I am not doctor and am just giving my opinion based on personal experience with people with sleep disorders and various forms of depression and manic behavior.

Sleep and psychological disorders often go hand in hand and it is sort of a which came first problem. Treating my sleep apnea did nothing for my depression or insomnia. Try to get her to talk to her doctor. It took me a very long time to admit that I had a problem.
Sorry to hear about your experience about 9/11. I can only imagine the pain and torment you go through in your life.

She doesn't claim it. Apparently, I and work are the source of her restlessness; amongst other things. I offered again to take her to a sleep clinic, she refuses to go.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2016, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

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Yep, get her to a sleep doctor. It could be sleep apnea, insomnia or just really bad sleep hygiene.

Sleep problems can cause depression.

when I say sleep doctor I mean a specialist. If you do not go to a good sleep doctor, some insurance companies are trying to force people to do in home sleep tests. They are crap to be honest. She needs to go into a clinic, spend the night and have a monitored sleep test.

If she does not want to go, make the appointment yourself and tell her that she has to because her state is hurting the relationship.
She refuses to go. Some days she cares about the relationship, some days she doesn't. It seems, to her, work come first, but then complains when there is stress at the home front. Just cannot win. I thought, if she got better sleep, then that would help with things. Now she claims she's not depressed, just stressed out. She's stated before to me plenty of times she's depressed.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2016, 01:29 PM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

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Originally Posted by MarriageInJeopardy View Post
I thought, if she got better sleep, then that would help with things. Now she claims she's not depressed, just stressed out. She's stated before to me plenty of times she's depressed.
MIJ, My wife was diagnosed with a life threatening condition several years ago. It took months of doctors (several) appointments and many tests before we found out the cause. You will drive yourself crazy trying to find the cause of her depression, especially if sleep related. Even a sleep specialist will not know for sure unless there is a sleep test.

Your wife MUST see her primary care physician, but as you have told us, she refuses to go. Don't expend your limited energy reserves trying to determine if it is rem sleep or CPAP etc. The GP will prescribe something for depression (she/he will give her a quick checklist to fill out to help with the diagnosis, then will ask her questions.)

During one really bad time in our marriage several years ago, I told my wife that I was leaving (i meant it too) if she did not go to the doctor to discuss her mental state and how to cope with her medical problems. Up until that time she refused to go. She was in self destructive spiral. She finally made an appointment and went WITH ME and doctor changed her depression meds and that helped a lot.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2016, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

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MIJ, My wife was diagnosed with a life threatening condition several years ago. It took months of doctors (several) appointments and many tests before we found out the cause. You will drive yourself crazy trying to find the cause of her depression, especially if sleep related. Even a sleep specialist will not know for sure unless there is a sleep test.

Your wife MUST see her primary care physician, but as you have told us, she refuses to go. Don't expend your limited energy reserves trying to determine if it is rem sleep or CPAP etc. The GP will prescribe something for depression (she/he will give her a quick checklist to fill out to help with the diagnosis, then will ask her questions.)

During one really bad time in our marriage several years ago, I told my wife that I was leaving (i meant it too) if she did not go to the doctor to discuss her mental state and how to cope with her medical problems. Up until that time she refused to go. She was in self destructive spiral. She finally made an appointment and went WITH ME and doctor changed her depression meds and that helped a lot.
She wouldn't let me go with her when she went to her PCP a few months ago. She said the dr gave her a clear bill of health across the board. All she tells me is she's depressed. Yet, she does laugh at times on the phone with her mom. Weird.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2016, 09:11 PM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

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Originally Posted by MarriageInJeopardy View Post
It seems, at least to me, that perhaps the lack of REM sleep is causing my wife to go in and out of a depressive state. Some days, she's pleasant, other days, it's like a bat out of hell. More stressed she is, the less sleep she receives; thus starts a cycle. Like I said before, she had a week off, and all she did is mostly sleep. I would like her to go to a sleep doctor, but she refuses. That might be the thing that brings her back to normalcy.

Suggestions?
get her to see a doc. the cyclic stuff will just keep wearing her out. likely they'll find little in the bloods, but they might be a chance to check for more serious issues like thyroid issues.

Also the _anxiety_ pattern that is developing is habitual, the sooner she gets help to break it the better.

Also making sure the basics are sorted goes a long way.
Proper diet, including some of the harder to get amino acids and vitamins. keep away from corn syrups, artifical sweetners, chocolates, and energy/pop drinks - they all drive the system into overdrive, and then collapse...then its an addiction cycle where the body needs it to get going again.

Often too, with depressed people, they need that adrenal panic mode to function at all. It will take a very helpful counseller (that doesn't "have big word answers for everything" to deal with it . eg she needs to address the cause of the worry, not just gets some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy stuff to fret over). Consider it to be like holding a hand grenade, the more you worry about letting go, and the need to let go; the more the panic and stress is going to stop you - but since you need the stress and panic to get over the falling asleep, you strap that bomb to your hand and go..until your stop..then repeat.

Exercise, low stress exercises, decluttered house, being able to not worry about family issues. But be warned...the stress is what makes some people function, and feel alive...otherwise they might feel threatened, or useless/pushed out, or even like Marge on the Simpsons episode when homer got the job with the Bond-Archvillian.

Also might want to consider career counselling. some managers (and their bosses) _like_ pushing their staff to breaking point and consider it a sign they are doing their job efficiently (get the most value for the company's money). It also so happens that often those bosses are the worst at providing remuneration or career mobility (an invested staff member, contributes self-worth to a project, also tends to one that won't leave, or doesn't even have time to look around).
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 02:00 AM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

I fell into depression and gained 30 pounds in eight months

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 07:53 AM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

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She wouldn't let me go with her when she went to her PCP a few months ago. She said the dr gave her a clear bill of health across the board. All she tells me is she's depressed. Yet, she does laugh at times on the phone with her mom. Weird.
I don't buy that. Been there, done that! What was the "Reason for Visit" when she went to see PCP a few months ago? If it was for a annual general exam, then little if any time would be spent on her mental health. Also, if your wife does not volunteer information about her mental health, the doctor will be unable to diagnose or help. I cannot emphasize that enough. (In my case we average about two dozen doctor visits per year for past four years. I am a mini expert on this, unfortunately. )

She needs to go see PCP again with "Reason for Visit" being depression. Even if she had a clean bill of health months ago, A LOT can change in even 1-2 months.

Your problem is trying to get her to the doctor. She is fighting you on this tooth and nail. The status quo is not working for you or her. Are you willing to separate from her to get her to see a doctor? (It's a yes or no question.) If not, then bluff convincingly. Go spend the night or two at family, friend or hotel.

Even a depressed person laughs once in a while. Do not read too much into that. She admits she is depressed, what does she say when you ask "What are WE together going to do to help with the depression"?

Did she sleep all weekend with you being snowbound?

Last edited by blueinbr; 01-25-2016 at 12:11 PM.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

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I don't buy that. Been there, done that! What was the "Reason for Visit" when she went to see PCP a few months ago? If it was for a annual general exam, then little if any time would be spent on her mental health. Also, if you wife does not volunteer information about her mental health, the doctor will be unable to diagnose or help. I cannot emphasize that enough. (In my case we average about two dozen doctor visits per year for past four years. I am a mini expert on this, unfortunately. )

She needs to go see PCP again with "Reason for Visit" being depression. Even if she had a clean bill of health months ago, A LOT can change in even 1-2 months.

Your problem is trying to get her to the doctor. She is fighting you on this tooth and nail. The status quo is not working for you or her. Are you willing to separate from her to get her to see a doctor? (It's a yes or no question.) If not, then bluff convincingly. Go spend the night or two at family, friend or hotel.

Even a depressed person laughs once in a while. Do not read too much into that. She admits she is depressed, what does she say when you ask "What are WE together going to do to help with the depression"?

Did she sleep all weekend with you being snowbound?
It was just an annual PCP. I am wiling to separate due to the issues at hand. It's not just this, but I feel her stress, sleeplessness and depression is a major concern. I am trying my hardest to stay and work, but it's getting us no where. She is as stubborn as a bull. I have a feeling if I said we should separate or divorce, she'd be fine with it. If I left for a couple of days and she had the whole apt to herself, she'd be in heaven. She said that is what the therapist is for. She didn't sleep the whole weekend, but a good part of it.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 12:22 PM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

Do her parents live close by? Tell her that you do not think she wants to be married to you and if she is unwilling to see a doctor or work on the marriage that it is best for both of you that she move out by the end of the month (pick a date). Remind her that with her current behavior she has already "left" the marriage emotionally and should just leave physically too. I guess your worry will be that she does exactly that. Separation does not always end in divorce.

I am married to a stubborn as a bull. I understand.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

I do not think I will have to worry too much more. In the latest VAR, she was talking to her mom about moving out and living closer to where she works. Said I was hard to live with this weekend during the snowstorm. Yet, I didn't say anything but good morning and how are you feeling on Saturday. We even watched a movie and she was laughing. On Sunday, we talked a little bit about IVF, and she told her mom he now wants to do IVF, but I do not trust it. Even though, I mentioned this nearly two years ago.

So very said.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2016, 09:44 PM
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Re: Depression and sleep cycle

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Originally Posted by Vinnydee View Post
I had a very good life. I was living with my wife and a girlfriend we shared.

Am I the only one that caught this???

Try to have your wife inquire about a sleep study.



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