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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Husband's friendship with woman ok?

I have been married for 35 years. Recently I found out that my husband was developing a friendship with a woman I don't know. I found out by reading his texts (That was wrong, but I was bored and his phone was sitting there). Anyway, he is turning it around to me doing that and keeps saying I didn't do anything wrong but then why did he hide it. I haven't been a jealous person throughout our marriage, so if he would have told me about it up front I probably would have been fine and wanted to meet her. We are now at a point where neither of us is trusting the other. Am I off base to be mad about this?

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:10 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

I do believe that if there are no ulterior motives than there is no reason to be afraid of transparency.

Our lives are a novel and we, the authors. if you don't like the story line, only you have the power to change it.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:13 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

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Originally Posted by vtwife View Post
I found out by reading his texts (That was wrong, but I was bored and his phone was sitting there).
That is a very lame excuse. Do you really believe that was the reason? You are kidding yourself. You were purposely spying on your husband because you do not trust him. Admit that to yourself.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:21 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

Hmm ok so you read his texts.
IMO his turning it around to how you did such a horrible thing makes him look like he is hiding something. Which he obviously is...even if they are just friends.
If there was nothing going on and you've been non judgemental and not jealous throughout your marriage then why is he so defensive?
What did the texts say?


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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

But up to this point I did trust him. We have made it through 35 years together. But I will think about what you said
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

One was that their meeting was serendipitous. She said she was a divorced woman so it was ok from her standpoint, but since he was married it felt sneaky. He replied that he had a fantasy that they could be friends. I found out that when I was out after work with my girlfriends he had gone to her apt and they had listened to music.... He didn't text her for 2 weeks, but then I saw on our cell phone bill that they texted back and forth this week. I told him about it last night that I saw her number on my bill and now am accused of spying.......things supposed to be private according to him. And I ."ruined" his day.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:40 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

A fantasy that they could be friends...
Went over it her place and didn't tell you?
Well perhaps you ruined his day but did you tell him that the fact that he didn't tell you he went over to another women's appt is hurtful.
Than would really bother me and is not ok in my book.
Sounds like you need to sit down with him and communicate.



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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:52 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

After 35 years of marriage, he decides to potentially stray? That's odd. Not saying it's not possible, but that's just interesting to me.

Having said that, I'm starting to believe that monogamy, life long monogamy, while beautiful in theory, it can be hard to be entirely faithful in thoughts. We are human. But, if those thoughts start taking shape...and cause a person to lie to his/her partner, then a discussion should be had. I hope things don't go down a bad path for you, OP. ((hug))
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:59 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

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Originally Posted by *Deidre* View Post
After 35 years of marriage, he decides to potentially stray? That's odd. Not saying it's not possible, but that's just interesting to me.



Having said that, I'm starting to believe that monogamy, life long monogamy, while beautiful in theory, it can be hard to be entirely faithful in thoughts. We are human. But, if those thoughts start taking shape...and cause a person to lie to his/her partner, then a discussion should be had. I hope things don't go down a bad path for you, OP. ((hug))


I agree with you...it seems odd to me too. 35 years is a long time with many opportunities before now.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:59 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

Privacy in marriage is not much more then closing the bathroom door. Screw him and others who pull this crap when discovered sneaking around.

Lots of guys need a 2z4 up the side of the head - repeatedly at times. He is a guy not a woman. So go to war NOW!!

First ask him to move to another bed,

Second tell him there is only one type of friend for an individual spouse. One who is a trend to the marriage first and foremost. Anyone else is toxic and has to go, (note narcissist or BPD are separate cases)

Third he is full of it and until he is ready to be honest There is the door get out,

Perhaps @EleGirl or @lifeistooshort can put it better- but that is the bottom line.


Last edited by JohnA; 03-31-2016 at 07:20 PM.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 07:03 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

Here is a list of classic red flags for guys about women. Many items can be reworded to apply to guys. Be nice if a woman developed a list of what to look out for, but I have not seen one yet.

Red flags*

Sex life dropped off noticeably
Passwords on phone and computer
Much more time on line...fakebook.
More GNOs...staying out later.
Less eye contact and holding hands...much less physical contact.
Less communication.
Staying up late on computer.
Dressing more provocative
More shopping-spending...clothes.
3 hour groceries shopping trips
Gasoline use and mileage went up
Generally disconnected from family.
New friends that I wasn't introduced to
Cell/text usage went up...way up.
New hair style and attention to makeup
Started exercising more.
Secretive about whereabouts during contact
She would become annoyed easily with me.
Household responsibilities dropped way off.
ecame more forgetful in general
A noticable distancing from her family.
Much more waxing...trimming...shaving....not for me.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 07:04 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

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Originally Posted by citygirl4344 View Post
I agree with you...it seems odd to me too. 35 years is a long time with many opportunities before now.
This could just be the first time he got caught.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 07:05 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

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This could just be the first time he got caught.


Touché @blueinbr
Although she doesn't know if he's having a PA. Sounds as though he is at least emotionally invested.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 07:06 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

Your husbands defense is classic DAVO. @Marduck posted this link awhile ago that explains it.

Davo

What is DARVO?

Jennifer J. Freyd, University of Oregon

Short Definition

DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim -- or the whistle blower -- into an alleged offender. This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of "falsely accused" and attacks the accuser's credibility or even blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation.


Disclaimers

DARVO as a concept is based on observation and analysis. The author has not yet published systematic empirical research testing the coherence or frequency of DARVO. However, the first empirical research specifically testing the concept of DARVO is completed and the manuscript report is in preparation (Harsey, Zurbriggen, & Freyd, in prep).
Other observers have likely noted the same phenomena and related phenomena using different terms; the author has been informed that some people have found the term DARVO a helpful mnemonic and organizing concept.
Also the presense of DARVO is not necessarily evidence in support of the accusation of guilt; a truly innocent person may deny an accusation, attack the person making the accusation, or claim the victim role. Future research may be able to determine the probability of a DARVO response as a function of guilt or innocence. The author hypothesized that some sorts of denials and reactions such as DARVO are more likely when the perpetrator is guilty than innocent (Freyd, 1997); however this hypothesis has not yet been tested. Furthermore, even if research indicates that a DARVO reaction is more likely when there is actual guilt, it would be an error to use a DARVO reaction as proof of guilt.
For now the concept of DARVO is offered as potentially memorable and useful term for anticipating the behavior of perpetrators when held accountable, and for making sense of responses that may otherwise be confusing (particularly when victim and offender get reversed).*
History of Terminology & Writings about DARVO

Jennifer Freyd introduced the term "DARVO" near the end of a 1997 publication about her primary research focus, "betrayal trauma theory." (For more on betrayal trauma theory, see Definition of Betrayal Trauma Theory.)

The reference for the 1997 article introducing the term is:

Freyd, J.J. (1997) Violations of power, adaptive blindness, and betrayal trauma theory. Feminism & Psychology, 7, 22-32.

In that paper Freyd explained that DARVO responses may be effective for perpetrators. "...I have observed that actual abusers threaten, bully and make a nightmare for anyone who holds them accountable or asks them to change their abusive behavior. This attack, intended to chill and terrify, typically includes threats of law suits, overt and covert attacks on the whistle-blower's credicility, and so on..... [T]he offender rapidly creates the impression that the abuser is the wronged one, while the victim or concerned observer is the offender. Figure and ground are completely reversed... The offender is on the offense and the person attempting to hold the offender accountable is put on the defense." (Freyd, 1997, p 29-30)

"By denying, attacking and reversing perpetrators into victims, reality gets even more confusing and unspeakable for the real victim. .... These perpetrator reactions increase the need for betrayal blindness. If the victim does speak out and gets this level of attack, she quickly gets the idea that silence is safer." (Veldhuis & Freyd, 1999. p 274).

It didn't happen (an instance) or It rarely happens (a type of event)
It wasn't harmful
Put together they can take the form: "It didn't happen, but if it did, it wasn't that bad" or "It rarely happens, but when it does it isn't harmful." The two claims both serve to deny, but they depend upon different sorts of evidence. They may both be true, but they are sometimes somewhat suspicious when claimed simultaneously (or by the same person at different times), as for instance can occur in response to allegations of rape or child sexual abuse.

Here is the link*What is DARVO?
Hat tip to @marduk*
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 07:23 PM
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Re: Husband's friendship with woman ok?

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That is a very lame excuse. Do you really believe that was the reason? You are kidding yourself. You were purposely spying on your husband because you do not trust him. Admit that to yourself.
Ok, based on the additional information from OP, I no longer agree with what I wrote.

She did not trust her husband because of the conscious or subconscious clues she was picking up from his behavior. I always tells OPs to trust their gut/instinct as it is probably right most of the time. She was certainly right this time to check the phone.

OP, I am sorry you are here.
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