I just need a private place to vent and unload for a moment.
My FIL has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer. Still in early stages of diagnosis but from scans it seems to be Stage IV. We should know more this week. In the last 10 days we've seen a huge decline in his health. The main tumor has doubled in size in the last 3 weeks per scans.
I just did what I promised myself I wouldn't do and googled. I'm seeing a lot of medical sites saying life expectancy is usually weeks or a couple of months at most at this stage. I know it's just Google. We have not heard that from the doctor yet. Given the downhill progression we've seen just in the last week's it would not surprise me to hear the doctor confirm.
I don't know what to do. My heart is shattered. For my husband, for my kids who are so close to my FIL and don't even know what's going on yet. They are 6 and 7. They don't know what cancer is. I don't know how to talk to them about this. My husband is shutting me out and I know he's hurting. My MIL, I just want to help her but every time i try to do or say something I feel like I'm making it worse.
He doesn't have life insurance. He doesn't have health insurance. MIL is not old enough yet to collect social security. We support her and he was still working to pay the bills. (Part time jobs with no benefits.) We will have to come up with money to pay his medical bills, his funeral, to support her after he passes. They are below the poverty line. They have no retirement funds or pensions to draw from. The idea of it makes my head spin.
Thinking about my kids enduring the pain of losing him just breaks me.
I am so sorry for what you and your family are going through. It is clearly a very bad situation.
You say that you will have to come up with money to pay his hospital bills. You really do not have to because you are not legally liable for paying his bills. Now your MIL would liable, but if she does not have the money to pay, she simply does not pay them. The docs and hospital cannot get money that does not exist. There are federal and state funds to reimburse docs and hospitals for situations like this.
Plus... if your FIL/MIL are so poor, why aren't they on medicaid? Could they qualify for welfare? Your MIL should qualify for some sort of public assistance, especially once your FIL cannot work anymore. Getting them all the help you can will help life a good hunk of the burden you are under.
You say that you want to help but feel like whatever you are doing is not actually helping. Have you asked your FIL and MIL what they would like you to do at this time to help them?
There is a great deal of help available. They are eligible for a number of government benefits if they are below the poverty line. Chief among them is Obamacare/Medicaid. Get a social worker involved at the hospital to assist them to determine their eligibility and make applications.
Approval can be fast lined if necessary. Social security disability or food stamps and public assistance which includes a stipend for housing are available. Get hospice involved, they offer services for terminally ill patients in the form of nursing care, hospital bed and equipment. They also provide emotional support to the patient and family.
I'm sorry for what you're going through. But why are you considering paying his medical bills? You are not legally responsible for any of it. Posted via Mobile Device
My head is just swimming right now, I don't know how bills work. I always just assumed they come and you have to pay them. I have not looked into any of the programs that might be available to them.
His parents have always been too proud to accept help. That includes government help. They feel it is shameful to accept food stamps or any type of assistance. They've always scraped by on cobbling together part time jobs (neither have any skills or education to speak of). His mom ran an in home daycare for decades but she has had to let it go because she is not in good enough shape herself to deal with taking care of young kids anymore. Plus she is FIL full time care taker.
Re: health insurance. FIL is older and has medicare. Just the part that is free, not any supplemental insurance that costs money. MIL has looked into Obama care but said it still costs money monthly and it is cheaper for her to just pay the tax penalty for being uninsured than buy the insurance. (This is not the decision H and I would make in her shoes, but it's the decision she's made.)
They do not talk easily about heavy topics like this so trying to ask questions or offering to advocate for them is not really welcome. They are very private people and the more you are seen as pushy the more they shut you out. I love them dearly regardless of this. I've offered every day to MIL to do anything for her - help her figure out bills, help her write a will, go to doctors appts with them to take notes, take care of FIL to give her a break, do her errands for her if she doesn't want to leave his side, research hospice and so on. She refuses all of it. I can see she is overwhelmed.
FIL is not an easy patient. He is a bit senile and doesn't fully understand the medical world and what the doctors say or try to do. He just thinks they are all evil and out to get his money. He is combative and angry at all appointments. He does not want to treat the cancer (I don't think it's treatable to be honest), which is a respectable decision. But he doesn't understand the difference between curative treatments and comfort measures. There are still things the doctor can do to make him comfortable with the time he has left. For example, they have sent an oxygen tank home. He refuses to use it. He will sit right beside it and suffer immensely unable to breathe and won't use it. It's heart wrenching to watch. He doesn't understand what hospice is and that they are not going to haul him off to the hospital. He has said he does not want hospice. I think he should get it anyway. If nothing else than to give support to MIL. Right now he won't hear any of it.
We are going on vacation for 2 weeks and leaving in a few days. It's something we've been planning for a year. I am scared to leave. H still insists on going. I think he wants to escape the reality for a bit. I am so scared that FIL will die while we are gone and that he will never forgive himself for being gone when it happened.
I am so sorry that you are going through this. November 2014 my father passed away from Metastatic Bladder cancer. He was first diagnosed in 2007 and beat it. When it came back, it was with a vengeance. I wanted to recommend Hosparus to you. They are very helpful not just with your loved one, but with the family too. Towards the end my dad also suffered from Terminal Agitation: severe mood swings, anxiety. It's hard to go through it. My mom and I did the best we could, but knew we needed help. It's something to look into.
Just remember, you don't always have to say something. You could always do something, like a load of laundry. Cooking a meal for MIL, anything like that. If you need to talk about anything, I'm here. Now my MIL is going through cancer again too so I've been on both sides.
Seriously. Look into Hosparus. They will ease the overwhelming struggle.
Take a deep breath!! Are you religious at all? In life there is death and when we get hit with the news of a passing loved one it is hard but try to find a way thru this that will benefit everyone. If this is your FIL's time rejoice in the life you shared....yes, you will morn your loss, that is needed. let your children it is his time to go. I don't know all in the ins and outs about medical cost and such but I am sure there must be some kind of help out there somewhere.
My husband's father recently passed from lung cancer as well. He had a small spot on his lungs and without chemo they gave him 3 months to live. He did chemo and radiation, and did well with it. The thing I was concerned about was visitor's during this time when his body was vulnerable to germs. He had planned a cruise with family members and I suggested that they speak to the doc about all the outside exposure. According to family the doc was not concerned. Well, he caught something and he lasted 5 months from the time of his original diagnosis. There was a mix of feelings and these situations tend to bring out the best and worst in people and families so hang in there. You will get thru it.
I am sorry you are in this situation. There are some things you will have to accept:
1) Your FIL is a bad patient. He chooses to be this way (unless the cancer or meds are affecting his mind.) Therefore focus on comforting your MIL, not your FIL.
2) He has the right to refuse treatment. Again, comfort your MIL and your husband.
3) He has the right to refuse hospice. Many do. Often hospice can be free of charge. Again, comfort your MIL and your husband.
4) Your husband knows his father. Your husband wants the vacation and needs the vacation. Go on the vacation. If you FIL dies, then deal with that later. Your husband knows what he is doing. And it is for a reason. He is not going to let his bad patient father control his life. Your H does not want his father's decisions (poor as they are) to stop him (your husband) from enjoying life with this family.
My dad is poor health, getting senile or something like that and is very mean to my mother. I comfort my mother.
BTW, make sure you sign NOTHING about any treatment or medical bills. In that way you are not held responsible. My wife is very ill and we get huge bills. Insurance covers everything. It is absolutely sickening what a hospital or doctor will charge you if you do no have insurance. Sometimes the charge is five times or more higher than what insurance covers and the doctor accept as paid in full if you have insurance. Have NO GUILT on the bills.
I think you're rightly traumatized by all this, and you're in shock. When folks are like that, they often feel a need for control by thinking about the stuff that you are. You also seem like a very responsible person, too.
Here's what I recommend, though. Recognize the emotional injury here, and take care of yourself. Which might mean NOT thinking about and worrying about all the gruesome details. They have a way of working themselves out, regardless of all the good thoughts and plans.
Talk with your husband not so much about the details here, they're too overwhelming...but rather the emotional implications. Assuming you have a reasonably good relationship, the 2 of you might draw on that.
The other thing, the kids: They might not understand what "Cancer" is, but they surely must be aware that something is going on, if only b/c of your and H's reaction. I think you might need to sit them down and have the "Grand dad' is very very sick" talk with them so they have some perspective and understanding not only of what is unfortunately going to happen, but as importantly, why you and daddy are acting so strangely.
Kag, I'm sorry for the emotional anguish you and your family are going through.
When my brother was dying he made decisions that were not in his, or his kids, best interest, IMO. I felt strongly about what he should do. It was extremely difficult to watch what was happening, knowing something better could come if he just..... But I had to let him "do his death his way." That is the key. When you know you are dying you can only control how you want to do your death and it must be respected even if it's the worst way.
When my sister reached her final stage she had seen the mess our brother left, and she did her death brilliantly. Although we mourned her deeply, she had everything planned out for us.
I think you should shift your focus away from advocating, or trying to get them help because they are both capable of making sound decisions and have the right to make a damn mess of their deaths.
Focus instead on your husband and your children because there you do have sway. If your husband wants distance, support it. Your children are too young to understand cancer and the dying process. "Pop is very sick and won't get better." Is all they have to understand.
Your husband may very well have regrets after his father passes. Here is what I've learned by watching my brother, my sister and my mother die: There are always regrets and doubts. Always. Some are deep and painful regrets, some are not, but they go hand in hand with death.
For right now, keep a mental list of the things you and your husband do to help your in laws because obviously that will be an avenue of regret after his death. Remember you do not get to control his death, only he can.
Sorry for your situation. I can read the pain, frustration and dire need to be of some help to ease your, your husband's and children's pain. You love them very much.
Sometimes family can help by talking things out. If your husband has siblings, it might be good if they all get together and talk it all through. Probably best if they do it amongst themselves.
If there are none, support and understanding helps. Just listening will help. It's tough to do, so I feel for you. Don't forget time away for yourself. Just taking care of yourself will reenergize you to some extent. You will need the support of your family and friends.
I'm sorry you are in this situation and hurting so much. Take care.
Kag123,
You say that your FIL/MIL are proud and private people and thus do not want to accept any kind of help from outsiders. But they do apparently accept some help from you and your husband because you said that you help them some financially.
Maybe if you approach this as you (you and your husband) want them to get help so that it’s not as much of a burden on you and your husband. With some of the burden lifted off you two, you can actually do more.. and you want to do more.
Were I you I’d write your MIL and maybe your FIL a letter and explain that you want to help, but you need them to help themselves with things like getting medical care covered, any kind a welfare available, etc.
For example, in my state, you FIL would probably be eligible for Medicaid. You say that he’s low income, so he does not need to spend money on supplemental insurance. Instead he can sign up for Medicaid. Your MIL could do that too.
If you look around, you might be able to find other things that they qualify for. Don’t allow their being proud to end up being a heavier burden on you.
Were I you I’d write your MIL and maybe your FIL a letter and explain that you want to help, but you need them to help themselves with things like getting medical care covered, any kind a welfare available, etc.
For example, in my state, you FIL would probably be eligible for Medicaid. You say that he’s low income, so he does not need to spend money on supplemental insurance. Instead he can sign up for Medicaid. Your MIL could do that too.
If you look around, you might be able to find other things that they qualify for. Don’t allow their being proud to end up being a heavier burden on you.
Kag, this is good advice. Remind your parents that these programs are not welfare as far as they should be concerned. Like Medicare and Social Security, they paid taxes their whole lives and earned access to these programs. They paid their dues, their taxes, and now it is time to collect.
I broke down and started crying last night once the kids were in bed, and then I felt stupid for it, like I don't want to be a burden on my husband. I knew he'd want to comfort me, when he should be the one who gets comforted. I felt selfish. So I quickly stopped.
My H hasn't talked to me about any of it. I've been talking to his mom directly for details and being her ear to listen when she wants to talk. H hasn't said a thing. I kind of don't want to talk to the kids without him being present and having a say in the conversation. He actually doesn't want to talk to them about it at all and would rather just wait until FIL is imminently going to die. I guess I've had some scary experiences with cancer and have come face to face with death before, and remember how hard it was for me then to see my relative in such a scary state. I think the kids should be told. They are smarter than they get credit for. But without his agreement or involvement it feels like an underhanded thing to do.
Reading a post like this makes me glad I live in Canada...here everyone gets full health care...you get cancer up here and you get full treatment and don't have to spend anything.
In regards to your inlaws...it is not fair to you and your family to have to go into debt for them. You have children to look after. I find it funny when people will say well I am too proud to take money from the governmetn, etc. but think nothing of taking it from their relatives.
To be fair they don't really willingly take the money from us, either.
FIL doesn't even know about it. I've been slipping MIL money on a weekly basis under his nose since our kids were born.
She ran an in home daycare and when our kids were not in school yet, they were part of her daycare. She did not want to accept payment from us even though we took up two full time spots in her daycare that could have gone to other (paying) customers. I didn't like that at all, so over a period of 18 months I forced her to take the money from us. (The regular paying rate for two kids in her daycare.) Every week it was a fight. The first two years she saved all of the money and then went absolutely crazy buying gifts for the kids on Christmas and birthdays with it. It was kind of her way of saying - if you won't take the cash back, I'll give it back to you one way or the other.
Then she slowly lost customers (kids got older and didn't need daycare anymore) and the money we paid her was needed more. Eventually it became clear she was just getting too old for taking care of babies and young kids all the time, and then FIL started going senile and needed her to watch him 24/7. She stopped protesting so hard and we kept the money going.
She still watches our kids quite a bit, including during the summers when school is out. We just never stopped paying her the daycare payment. Now I do not plan to stop. She cannot work while FIL is sick and she could not handle a job on her feet all day such as retail. She hasn't worked in a business ever. Went right out of high school to running the daycare, so she will likely be hard to employ if she did try to find a job.
She's still not happy that we give her the money but we slip it in her purse each week like always and we both just pretend it didn't happen, to save their pride.
Something popped into my head. Can you go with her financial information to the local welfare office and ask them what amount of help she qualifies to receive? Can you talk to the hospital about getting help with her payments for his care? Maybe when she sees how much it will cost and what will be forgiven and/or paid for her, she will change her mind?
I'm not sure this is a good idea. I just wanted to throw it out there for consideration.
I know for certain that many, if not all hospitals will cover costs. So will big pharmaceutical companies, if the meds are too expensive. Those apps may be done online, if I'm not mistaken. A few phone calls will get you pointed in the right direction.
There are many elderly with little retirement income. It's normal to feel ashamed when your parents have to get help from their children. Aren't they supposed to help their kids? If their parents came from the depression era, it will be tough for them to accept anything, since their parents made it on their own with seemingly greater roadblocks. It's not the same era. Laws have changed. The economy has changed. Attitudes about the elderly have changed. Attitudes about what success looks like have changed. It is confusing and disheartening for them.
The cost of living has risen so rapidly, what someone planned for years ago is no longer able to pay for reality today. I hope you can talk her into getting help, or find a way to circumvent her pride. She needs and deserves the help. It's how things are done today. The government is in charge, not individuals. We are more socialist today than ever, and we are forced to be by law. It isn't her fault.
Something popped into my head. Can you go with her financial information to the local welfare office and ask them what amount of help she qualifies to receive? Can you talk to the hospital about getting help with her payments for his care? Maybe when she sees how much it will cost and what will be forgiven and/or paid for her, she will change her mind? I'm not sure this is a good idea. I just wanted to throw it out there for consideration.
I'm not sure this is a good idea. I just wanted to throw it out there for consideration.
A lot of this research can be done online. You can find your state’s welfare website. It should have the rules posted, what they consider poverty level, etc. The forms should also be provided online and you print them off. IN some cases, they can be filled out online.
He should be eligible for Medicaid to supplement his Medicare. Those applications should be on line as well.
Many states have programs to help the elderly find out what’s available to them and navigate the system. Here, the senior state and city senior program also has people who help care for the elderly. There are even people like plumbers, repair men, etc to do volunteer work through the state for the low income elderly. like they will unclog the toilet, replace/fix leaking faucets, etc… for free.
And I agree that a trip to the welfare office, after you have done all the research you can online might be a good idea.
If you would share what state and city you live in, maybe we could help you find resources.
I know for certain that many, if not all hospitals will cover costs. So will big pharmaceutical companies, if the meds are too expensive. Those apps may be done online, if I'm not mistaken. A few phone calls will get you pointed in the right direction.
This is good too. But he might be able to get on Medicaid. But yes, you can negotiate with hospitals and they will greatly reduce or forgive the bill. There will most likely be a lot of bills from individual doctors. I have about 15 bills from doctors who say that they did something for me when I was in the hospital. (read xrays, scans, etc, gave their 2 cents I guess). So the hospital is not the only one to worry about. Medicaid would help with those tool.
There are many elderly with little retirement income. It's normal to feel ashamed when your parents have to get help from their children. Aren't they supposed to help their kids? If their parents came from the depression era, it will be tough for them to accept anything, since their parents made it on their own with seemingly greater roadblocks. It's not the same era. Laws have changed. The economy has changed. Attitudes about the elderly have changed. Attitudes about what success looks like have changed. It is confusing and disheartening for them.
I agree with this. The best way to help, I think, is to keep telling them that this is why they and you pay taxes. For years all of you have paid into the system so that when help is needed, there is a strong support system. It’s their system as much as anyone else’s.
The cost of living has risen so rapidly, what someone planned for years ago is no longer able to pay for reality today. I hope you can talk her into getting help, or find a way to circumvent her pride. She needs and deserves the help. It's how things are done today. The government is in charge, not individuals. We are more socialist today than ever, and we are forced to be by law. It isn't her fault.
I think the elderly have a right to expect support in their time of need. The cost of living has increased more rapidly than at any time in our history and none of us were prepared for it.
The elderly are especially impacted because it was impossible for them to predict and they had no time to change course to meet the challenge.
That's where the community comes in. These old folks contribute in ways they do not realize. They have children and grandchildren who work, pay taxes and form the community that sustains us.
Perhaps your MIL can look at the situation in that way. They are not accepting charity. They belong to the collective Us and we are responsible for them.
I think the money aspect of this is going to have to take a back seat for the time being. I'm trying to be an emotional support for MIL and not stress her out too much while she processes all of this new information. FIL condition is deteriorating daily and faster than anyone thought and I think it's really a lot for her to take in. It's a lot for all of us to absorb.
I talked to her for a long time today. He has his first appointment with the cancer center on Thursday. We will already be gone on vacation. I asked her a thousand times if we could postpone our trip to go with her. She insisted we don't. We do not expect this to be treatable. She is expecting to hear a final verdict on how much time he has left. I don't know if they will actually tell her that. Do doctors do that? She is in shambles waiting for this appointment. Like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I so wish she would let me go with her.
She is walking on eggshells around FIL. He is very angry and easily agitated right now. She is so afraid that he will die at any moment that she does not want to spend a single moment fighting with him, afraid anything she says to him might be her last words to him. It's so sad. I understand how she feels. So she won't advocate for him at the doctors at all if he doesn't want the help. The thing is that he doesn't understand what he's turning away - comfort measures that he's refusing. He's refusing hospice and pain medication. I hope he changes his mind, or that eventually when he is unable to fight it we can get them on board. He's refusing to make a will or to discuss a living will and what his wishes might be if he cannot answer for himself. He gets angry if you bring it up. I think he plans to just drop dead but I don't know how much control a person has to will that to happen.
My poor H has been in a horrible deadline at work. Pulling 100 hr weeks. I have not wanted to talk to him about anything to do with his dad unless he asks me because he's got enough on his plate right now. I haven't been seeing him much over the last week. He's been crushing it to try to get on vacation where he can unplug a bit. I'm worried that he's going to miss this time with his dad and regret it later, but this could also be an avoidance tactic. I've just been letting him make his own decisions and trying to be here if he needs me.
Despite his protests, I went ahead and talked to the kids for the first time today. They are at MILs house still for the next few days before we leave while H and I work, and home health is coming over tomorrow to evaluate him at the house ahead of his cancer center appt. The cancer center sent them out. I assume this is so they can get him some comfort at home and perhaps offer him hospice. They are going to do some tests on him and will be talking to MIL about medical things, and my kids overhear everything and know enough to know when things are bad. I decided I would rather them hear from me what is happening and what they might see than find out by overhearing strangers in the house talking. It was a hard conversation and they asked me a lot of tough questions that I tried to answer truthfully. We are not religious, not really, so we don't talk about heaven and those types of things. I tried to be truthful and fair about what I said, not make false promises to them about him getting better. I hope I did the right thing.
One of the most surprising questions they asked me was, what can they do to help MIL and FIL feel better. I thought that was so amazing. They are good kids. So we tried to brainstorm some age appropriate things they can do to help.
I expect H will not be thrilled I had the talk without him. I didnt know what to do. My kids are smart and said themselves that FIL seems very sick and why isn't he getting better. I suppose H and I might have a fight about it later.
Yep. And believe it, husband is stewing inside. It's building up. He's got a lot on his mental plate.
I'm not minimizing your ordeals, or the children's. Just commenting on the last part. I see it coming.
FIL is stubborn. He doesn't want to believe it. He can't believe it. He will need some counseling and so will MIL and maybe you, your husband and children.
Got nothing much other than that. I really wish I did. Best I can do is recommend you read some sites I found. I know it's likely FIL will be on some antidepressants, but it isn't certain. He will likely need pain meds and care beyond what MIL and your family can handle. He isn't able to think at the moment. Can't really fault anyone for any of that. I'm so sorry.
Here are some links. I do hope they are of help to you. It's all I know to do. My mum was in a home when she contracted cancer and passed. They did what they could. I didn't have to do much, nor could I have done much. So sad.
I know it's a lot of reading, but maybe it will help you to feel better knowing what is happening and what you can and cannot do? I'm sorry I can't provide more.
Re: H, I see it coming too. What can I do though. This is how he has always been. When he's dealing with anything heavy he pushes me away. I'm just letting him lead the way and will be here when he breaks. If he breaks. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but I have never figured out a way to better support him in all of the years we've been together. This is no different.
MIL asked me today to attend the first appointment with the cancer center to take notes and ask the questions she will write down for me. I guess she gave some thought to what I said to her before and I am thankful she is asking for help. We are postponing our vacation to go to the appt. I am hopeful I can be supportive enough for MIL and my H. She warned me she will probably fall apart and cry during the appt. I feel so bad for her.
FIL has only days left now, and my husband is taking vigil by his bedside. Today I had to tell my kids that pop pop is dying (very soon) and it was such a difficult conversation. Probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I don't think I did a very good job. It is so hard to watch your children and your husband hurt.
I am so sorry you and your family are going through this right now. I had to tell my children that their father died a little over five years ago. They were older than your kids but still, death is so hard because you yourself don't want it to be true. But they will be glad they heard it from you.
Hospice has classes in some areas for children on helping them with grieving. My ex husband was unwell but his death was unexpected. Don't be afraid to keep pop pop's memory alive. It will help them.
Do you know if your fil was diagnosed with mesothelioma by any chance? It's common in those who worked around asbestos (construction, etc). It's rare but if that's the type of lung cancer he has, he would qualify for monetary compensation (mil would). I hate to bring this up at such a sensitive time but I hope they tested him if he did any sort of work that could have exposed him.
My prayers and thoughts to your family. My heart goes out to you.
@kag123 are there any cancer support charities where you llive?
Local church groups, pethaps? Posted via Mobile Device
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