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Husband does not like me moving his belongings

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#1 ·
My husband and I have been together for 5 years, married for 1. I moved into his house when we married and the core reason for unhappiness in our marriage is due to the fact we are vastly different when it comes to organization. My husband is 52 years old and his adoptive parents (both now deceased) were in their 40's when they adopted him. They held on to every nail, scrap of paper, peice of food they could hold onto. As a result, my husband has hoarding tendencies.

When his adoptive mom died in January he took 2 trailers full of cars and car parts from her house and brought them back to our house. We live out in the country and have a couple acres. He already had cars in the garage, cars in a storage garage he built, cars out back and now we have cars in the driveway and on our lawn (as well as car parts strewn about). He says he has no other place to put them (he also has two storage units filled with cars and other assorted junk). I feel like I am drowning. My husband also does not open his mail on a regular basis- it all piles up. I throw junk mail away discreetly the best I can but he roots through the garbage almost every day to see what he can save. I accidently threw away a bill once (that had been sitting on the island for weeks) and he has reminded me of the fact I "have cost the family money" (10$ late fee) every day for the past couple months.

Our big blow up came three weeks ago. I threw chicken bones away that he had left on the counter for several days. He said he was saving them to give to the dog. He lost his sh!t and said he was tired of me throwing things away. He will not let me put away his laundered clothes. He wants me to just leave them on the dresser (he refuses though to fold them and put them away). He says if I put them away again he will throw them out onto the lawn.

Anyways, three weeks ago he got so angry I threw away the chicken bones that he grabbed a shovel and smashed the drivers side window of my car "to teach me a lesson". He has never hit me or threatened to hurt me. I called the police and the officer said that since I wasn't in the car, and we are married my property is considered his property so there's no report to file and no charges to press. He's just smashing his own things- which isn't illegal.

We attended counseling last week and the counselor told my husband that he isn't a bachelor anymore- he needs to place his wife ahead of car parts and material items. He suggested we start with cleaning out the house first and then work on the outside- specifically to clean out the front entry way and decide what to donate or keep. DH agreed but I'm overwhelmed and exhausted. The house is falling apart and he sees no problem with it. He doesn't want to find a new house because "it won't have enough storage or space for my cars". He is angry that I have "destroyed his system" regarding where he puts things. Does anyone who has a hoarding spouse have any tips?
 
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#3 ·
My first piece of advice here would be to find a real therapist...and I get very testy around this, so bear with me....unless you have some contrite adolescent lunch room issue, a "Counselor" won't do, they just lack the training and the experience to fully understand the complexity of most of the issues brought before them. Yes, it will cost you more, but you can look to save money or you can save your marriage and yourself.

And you know your "Counselor" won't be effective b/c it's somewhere on the naive to absurd continuum of human behavior to believe that he'll listen to him/her when he hasn't listened to you.

What needs to happen is a carrot and stick approach..in that order....to first understand what his hoarding means and where it comes from and why it is important to him..what maintains it...and then an approach that lets him unburden himself of that need. Telling him to just stop doing it is about as effective as throwing out the chicken bones or smashing your car window.

You married someone with some fairly serious issues that should be treated as such. If you go in there like gang busters, he's likely to exhibit additional out of control behavior. By finding someone who understands this as such, you're more likely to resolve what seems to be a rather significant set of issues that prevents him from letting go. Otherwise, what he'd likely let go of is you.

Get a good doc here.
 
#4 ·
My solution to his hoarding and other bad behaviors would be to move out. Seriously. Just so I could live in a clean environment that I am not ashamed to invite friends and family to visit. Then I'd tell him he has 2 choices. 1. He can get into therapy and do the work to correct his bad behavior and hoarding or 2. He can be a single man, free to wallow in his filth.
 
#5 ·
Hoarders are very very attached to their belongings. It doesn't matter if everyone else thinks it's garbage, each plastic bag or old newspaper can have a memory attached to it, or a significance that no one else can see.

It literally destroys hoarders to have to let go of their stuff, and so yes, you messing with your husband's things very likely makes him feel like he should be able to mess with yours. Or just desperate and unhappy, and wanting to lash out.

Hoarding is treatable, but it is quite difficult, and requires someone with expertise in this area. Simply throwing out their stuff will often just cause them to redouble their collecting habits. You may be able to get permission to get rid of some things, but don't be surprised if he fights tooth and nail for the smallest and most useless items.

Please seek professional help with this, and do not feel bad that you aren't able to cope. Not many people are equipped to handle this issue. And please tell him that chicken bones are very dangerous for dogs!

I feel for you. Good luck!!!
 
#6 ·
Well, since cooked chick bones are potentially deadly to dogs (sharp edges and if they swallow them they could internally bleed out) you did right with the dogs.

Now, with the anger to smash your window, you need to get out. One day he will smash you.

Forget the therapist. Your life is potentially at stake here. We will know something happened to you when you stop posting here.

Good luck.

Anyways, three weeks ago he got so angry I threw away the chicken bones that he grabbed a shovel and smashed the drivers side window of my car "to teach me a lesson". He has never hit me or threatened to hurt me YET
 
#20 ·
From Wiki " A psychiatrist is a physician who specializes in psychiatry, which is to say in the diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders. Psychiatrists are medical doctors, unlike psychologists, and must evaluate patients to determine whether their symptoms are the result of a physical illness, a combination of physical and mental, or a strictly psychiatric one. "

A psycholoogist might have a doctorate degree, in which case they can and often do call themselves "Doctor" but they are not a Medical Doctor, nor will they have M.D. after their name. They psychiatrist sits at the top, often the most expensive, and often see a patient for 15-30 minutes per session vs a psychologist who often sees the patient for a longer period of time. The key difference, besides level and year of training, is that the psychiatrist can prescript medication while a psychologist cannot.

IMO because of the violent outburst, he may need medication. Before he hurts you. You describe this actions as increasing in intensity. "The hoarding has gotten worse as time went on. He was never this "territorial" about it until his mother died."

What you feel as an attack on you and your H is really our true concern for your physical safety. IMO you are discounting the attack as being "territorial". It was bad enough for you to call the police. What will happen next if you even mistakenly throw out something of his or he even THINKS you threw out something of his?
 
#21 ·
I have read that the reason that people hoard is that they feel that they have lost so much in life, that they hang on to everything for fear of experiencing more pain from loss. His mother died recently. That’s a huge loss. It might be an even bigger loss because he already lost one mother (and father) in his life when they gave him up for adoption. Now the loss of the mother who raised him could be the straw that makes him break.

But the bottom line here is that he has gone violent. Him breaking your car window to teach you a lesson is a threat to YOU. The message is that this time it was your window. Next time it might be the shovel to your head.

Now he’s stepped up the abuse to domestic violence.

His refusal to allow you to make his house your home, is a very bad sign. It’s a form of emotional abuse. He’s basically telling you that you are nobody and have no place in his life. It’s his life, his house. You are an intruder. Hence he gets angry when you try to do things that make it your home too.

Abuse always escalates. This is not going to get better. It’s going to get worse.

You need to take care of yourself. That means that you need to move out. If he wants you in his life, he can then get some physiatrist help. And if he does, it will take him years to fix whatever is going on with him. …. Years that you cannot be living with him.
 
#22 · (Edited)
What would it have taken for you follow up his violent act by getting your stuff and driving away in your damaged car without saying a word? What type of person would stick around after witnessing an out of control, violent 52 year old man? My first instinct would have been to get out of harms way.

Far from him needing to teach you a lesson you should teach him. There are heavy consequences for his treatment of you. He id deprived of your presence until he gets help and proves he is safe and deserves a companion.

No change means no you. Why did you not react that way? The fact that you remain in the same house with a dangerous man says something about what you will tolerate and what you feel about yourself. People treat you the way you allow them. You need to ask yourself why this treatment is good enough for you.

You gave him permission to be physically violent. The verbal threats did not trigger self-protective instincts and outrage your sense of self respect. He now has permission to make threats with no consequences and to treat you with a lack of respect.

If you insist upon continuing to expose yourself to this toxicity, be careful and vigilant. This is more serious than you seem to realize. What he is doing now will escalate in time especially if you interfere with his rituals. He is 52, how old are you?

If you want to stay safe, don't try to change him. You may have to accept life with a hoarder with violent tendencies if you want to stay married to him. You'll need to leave no footprint of your presence in his home so you don't excite his anger and violent outburst.

What is the rest of your relationship like? Is he otherwise loving, communicative and supportive? Is he a source of friendship and safety? I assume you married because you cared about each other. Do you love him and do you feel loved?

Sadly, from your description, he does not sound like he has much going for him. What do you think?
 
#29 ·
Have you ever watched that show about hoarding? I'm not sure if it's still on or not. Hoarding is a mental illness. If he's not willing to accept that he has a problem and get help for it, then the problem is just going to continue to get worse. The incident with him smashing your window is pretty disturbing. That's violence that could also escalate.
 
#31 ·
My mother became a horder as she got older. It was really bad.

So once a year my siblings and I (there are 8 of us), would deal with it. One of us would take her to stay with them for a few days. The rest of us would go through her house and garage and remove all the junk.

The first couple of times we did that, she threw a fit… I mean we threw out her “Mrs. Butterworth” bottles and old magazines and surely they were worth a lot. LOL. But after that she would get a bit upset but love her clean and organized house.

I doubt you can do that with your husband. I get it. And I think he’s very capable of being a violent man and hurting you. As I said earlier, he’s already made a very clear threat on your life because you threw out old, stinky chicken bones.

And because of the level of the violent attack on your car window, you need to leave him. I’m sure that right now you resist this idea. For this reason, YOU need to get into counseling on your own because you need to learn why you would stay in this kind of situation. And then you need to work to fix yourself.

Keep in mind that when one spouse has some form of mental illness (your husband does hording, emotional abuser and violence), if the other spouse stays they too have a mental health issue. Sometimes they start out like that. Sometimes a spouse develops a mental health issue in response to the other spouse. But the fact that you are still there, putting up with him not allowing you to make your place in your home, and putting up with his abuse… all the while trying to figure out what you can do to fix him means that you have and/or are developing unhealthy issues.

You would benefit from reading the book “Co-Dependent No More”. His problems are his. They are not yours to fix. You cannot fix another person.
 
#41 ·
You're married to a man twice your age with violent tendencies, a hoarder who won't let you touch anything in HIS house - even disgusting old chicken bones attracting bugs, and amidst a car junk yard.

Is this what you want for your life? This won't get any better and is likely to get worse, so if this is not what you want for the next 20-30 years of your life, please do something now to leave. He won't change. You'd be lucky to get him to a psychiatrist, but he likely doesn't want to change and so he won't.

You're young - do you want kids? Is this the kind of home and father you'd want for a baby?
 
#35 ·
I did leave for several days after calling the police. I stayed with SIL at her house. She told me to stay as long as I want to. Now we are back to "normal" but I still feel overwhelmed with the clutter and his refusal to clean but insist I don't pick up after him.
 
#37 ·
Do you have any place in the house and on the property that is 'your space'?

If you are going to stay with him, then maybe you can negotiate with him for a room of our own. How big is the property and how much money do the two of you have? (I'm not asking for read figures.) It sounds like a pretty big lot. Could you get your own house on the property?
 
#38 ·
Come to think of it, I also know someone who is a social worker who deals with hoarders fairly regularly, and in some cities there are organizations that can help. OP, you should do some research in your area to see if there are any services available. They may have some ideas for you.
 
#43 ·
I am more concerned about his displays of violence. Clearly the man has serious issues and zero regard for the well being of his wife, between the violent outburst and the hoarding. TT, why in the world do you wish to stay in this? There does not seem to be enough redeeming qualities to justify staying, and abuse tends to escalate. He may be hitting YOU next time instead of the car!
 
#44 ·
Take the dog and run as fast and as far as you can. The man you married is a danger to you both.

I don't know what possessed you to marry a man twice your age with these tendencies but he will never get better. Have you two discussed having children or did you just assume he would want them now that you two are married? He smashes you car window, threatens to throw out your clothes and plans on seriously harming the dog with days old chicken bones. Can you imagine what he would do to a child who "upset his routine?"

This man is seriously mentally ill. Did you ever wonder why, at his age, he had never married before? It's not like his career prevented it.

From the sounds of it, your husband does not see you as his wife, as his full partner. He sounds like he is grieving his real wife, his mommy dearest. You are just a booty call.

BTW, that cop was very, very wrong. If you owned that car before marriage, it is NOT your husband's car. Even if you purchased it after marriage, it still does NOT give him the "right" to destroy your property. Using that cop's "logic" you could trash/remove every item of your husband's because it was also yours. But I doubt the cops would see it that way.

Take the dog and run like the citizens of Tokyo fleeing Godzilla.

IamSomebody
 
#47 ·
My friend,M,is a hoarder. So was her mother. M and I went round and round about her things. I remember when I finally got her to let us (friends and neighbors) clean her basement and we discovered it had flooded a while back. No one knew because the mound of clothes covering the floor was wall to wall and the bottom layers absorbed the water before the top layers got wet. We filled a dumpster from her basement alone. We also, over weeks, did her kitchen, dining room, and living room.

Her hoarding eventually overrode even her maternal instincts and she lost custody of her children due to the condition of the house and yard. Her sons went to her brother, who later legally adopted them after her rights were terminated, and her daughters went to her exH's.

Her kids are grown now. One daughter is in contact with her, one is in contact rarely, and her sons don't speak to her at all.

DO NOT HAVE A CHILD WITH THIS MAN.
 
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