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Boundaries and Codependency

7K views 88 replies 32 participants last post by  2ntnuf 
#1 ·
Doing some reflecting on my codependency and boundaries, I'd like to bounce some stuff off some other people.

So as a people pleaser I tend to do things out of obligation. I probably went a little far on the spectrum but I tried making a conscious decision not to do anything that I really didn't want to do in my last relationship.

One time I was at my girlfriend's house and I was sitting on her couch. We were getting ready to leave in about 10-15 minutes and I was relaxed and feeling good. She said, "Hey before we go can you move these chairs upstairs?"

For whatever reason I really didn't feel like it, and so I told her, "I don't really feel like it to be honest. Maybe later?"

She got really mad about that and I saw some validity in her comments. Basically her response was that she couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to help her and that I was being selfish. That sometimes being in a relationship means doing things you don't necessarily WANT to do but you do it anyway.

Now the last part is kind of hogwash to me, because there were clearly times in the relationship before and after that where I was clearly doing something that I didn't really want to do, but did it because I wanted to please my partner (ie dishes, taking out trash, etc.). However, at this specific moment in time, my desire to not move the chairs outstripped my desire to please her.

So I ask you people of TAM, how do you feel about this? Was my refusal to move the chairs a problem? Should I have done it even though I didn't want to? Am I just immature? Was this a crossing of my personal boundary that should have been a red flag?
 
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#4 · (Edited)
No because you said maybe later
This!

If you had said "no" just because then I'd have to agree with her.

But you acknowledged the task just not on HER time table. Your time is equally valuable.

She's the one being selfish unless she can provide a valid reason why its an emergency.
 
#3 ·
So I ask you people of TAM, how do you feel about this? Was my refusal to move the chairs a problem? Should I have done it even though I didn't want to? Am I just immature? Was this a crossing of my personal boundary that should have been a red flag?
My personal position, and of course it's just mine, is that a refusal to do a simple task nicely requested needs a better defense than "I don't want to" before you say no - unless of course the requests are constant and never take your feelings into consideration.
 
#6 ·
I was at my ex-girlfriends house one time and we had to leave her house in 15 mins to be somewhere. I was ready and she was still getting ready. So while I waited she asked me to, "wash her dishes". Mind you they were not from a meal we had together but her own. I told her flat out "no". She flipped out and I was appalled. Never in my life would I have a guest in my house and ask them to start doing my choirs. She can wash her own dishes when we got back or the next day. There was no emergency reason they needed to be done or why I had to do them. She was crazy and that's why we broke up but the point is without boundaries you're just doormat she will eventually lose respect for.
 
#9 ·
You mentioned on another thread that the frequency and quality of sex had dropped with your girlfriend. Is this the same gf? If so, could there be a correlation between you losing interest in doing things to please her (i.e. moving her chairs) and her doing things to please you?

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#12 ·
That's an interesting story @COguy , and @BetrayedDad 's story backs up my feeling about it. Your refusal was not the thing to worry about. Her reaction was the thing you should have been thinking about. Many people (my Dad was one) have a list of things that must be done before they can do something. It's almost an obsession or Compulsion. Doing the chairs or dishes later wasn't an option in their psyche. Now you can get sucked into their crazy and accept every list they can create, or you can learn to understand their obsession and anticipate them, or you can refuse to participate in the circus.

There are some possible ways to interpret this:
It was a S*** test and for once you passed.
She saw you weren't busy and she was and she automatically tried to balance the scale.
She failed to complete the tasks on her list before you arrived and wanted you to make up the difference.
She had planned to get a Man to do the heavy lifting Job. She saved it for you. When you didn't do it she had to re evaluate if you fit into her ideal of a Man.

It's long in the past now. Will this kind of behavior in the near future improve the relationship? Is there a better way to Hold onto your
N.U.Ts? Can you be independent and still do Chores you don't like? Is independence attractive to her?
 
#14 ·
She was definitely controlling. This was just one example I have a few others in a similar vain, but basically if she had something in her mind and it didn't happen she would get angry. I'm trying to figure out why I am attracted to people like this, it's clear that it's my issue.

In this specific instance the chairs were heavy and so she was expecting me to help her with them. Which ordinarily wouldn't have been a problem but at that moment I really wasn't interested and I guess I chose that hill to die on as I was trying to make a conscious effort not to do things out of obligation. Honestly not really sure where the balance is. As someone who struggles with codependency I feel like I should error on the side of not doing something as opposed to sucking it up.
 
#15 ·
If she needs you to do something for her so she can get some "fix", or fulfill a responsibility of hers regularly so she can take care of an addiction, then yes, it would be codependent for you to enable her.

If it's just a matter of her needing something because she can't do it herself, then helping her is not codependent.

Still, it's up to you when, where and who you help. It's also up to you what you want to do and whether you are capable or not.

There are different ways of saying no. It depends on the situation. There is nothing wrong with saying no when you need to do that.

It's doormat policy when you decide you will do things to keep her from ever getting angry or to get something without prior discussion and agreement with the one you are helping.
 
#18 ·
It's doormat policy when you decide you will do things to keep her from ever getting angry
That's definitely where I've been. Finding myself doing things just to stop a fight from happening. Just so I wouldn't have to deal with the anger or frustration. That's the only reason I would have ended up moving the chairs, so I didn't have to deal with the anger. And after moving them I would have been resentful about it.

Now that I think about it I think I clearly expressed that to her when she started getting upset. She didn't really care. So maybe that's my answer...

Though I struggle to think of a situation with a woman where when asking someone to do something like that they wouldn't get pissed if you said no. Is that a fair assumption or do I have a screwed up view?
 
#17 ·
Doing some reflecting on my codependency and boundaries, I'd like to bounce some stuff off some other people. ...

One time I was at my girlfriend's house and I was sitting on her couch. We were getting ready to leave in about 10-15 minutes and I was relaxed and feeling good. She said, "Hey before we go can you move these chairs upstairs?"

For whatever reason I really didn't feel like it, and so I told her, "I don't really feel like it to be honest. Maybe later?"

She got really mad about that and I saw some validity in her comments. Basically her response was that she couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to help her and that I was being selfish. That sometimes being in a relationship means doing things you don't necessarily WANT to do but you do it anyway. ...

So I ask you people of TAM, how do you feel about this? Was my refusal to move the chairs a problem? Should I have done it even though I didn't want to? Am I just immature? Was this a crossing of my personal boundary that should have been a red flag?

@COguy

Here is a sort of easy way to tell if it's codependence/boundary stuff. Okay first, a boundary is about what YOU will accept in your life, not controlling the other person. You are just controlling you and yourself!

So when a girlfriend asks you to do something, it should be a REQUEST. By definition, a request means that you are free to say "no" without being punished. If you are "punished" for saying "no" then it is not a request--it is a DEMAND. Demands are controlling.

So...

GF: "Hey before we go can you move these chairs upstairs?"
You: "I don't really feel like it to be honest. Maybe later?"
GF: "Hmmm...I need to do it before 4pm because I have XXX coming over. Would you do it before then?"
You: "No"
GF: "Okay. Then I need to take some time to move them now before we go. I don't really want to do it either, but I want them moved before 4pm so I'll do it!"

See that's a healthy response. SHE wants them moved... not you. If she wants it, she can do it. She can request your help, but you are free to say yes or no. And yep, being in a relationship does mean that sometimes you do things you "don't want to do" because pleasing your other person is a bigger priority than doing "what you want to do."

But FORCING someone to do what YOU want to do WHEN you want to do it...is controlling. And I suspect one of your boundaries is:

"I will not allow a person who is controlling to become an intimate in my life."
 
#19 ·
Thank you that was very insightful. I remember multiple times saying something exactly like that to her. "You aren't really asking, you're demanding."

Unfortunately I'm not good at enforcing that boundary. There were some red flags regarding this behavior and I chose to ignore it. I guess that's what makes me codependent.....
 
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#22 ·
You failed the "am I attractive and impressive enough to get a man slave test"

You could always agree with her argument, move the chairs, then ask for a BJ. This is show if the argument was a true point she was raising or a spoilt privileged person used to having others fulfill her whims just because she asked.
personally I'd shift the chairs 'cause I'm an overly helpful person - just like I come here and give advice for almost nothing.... now about that BJ (in reciprocation for the advice...)
 
#27 ·
One time I was at my girlfriend's house and I was sitting on her couch. We were getting ready to leave in about 10-15 minutes and I was relaxed and feeling good. She said, "Hey before we go can you move these chairs upstairs?"

For whatever reason I really didn't feel like it, and so I told her, "I don't really feel like it to be honest. Maybe later?"

She got really mad about that and I saw some validity in her comments.
Moving furniture 15 minutes before you are going out the door?

Nope, that is not a reasonable request. Your offer of doing it later was more than considerate.

Her getting mad about it and arguing/lecturing? Over-the-top unreasonable, red-flag.

If it was me, this incident would be the end of the relationship.
 
#29 ·
If it was me, this incident would be the end of the relationship.
Damn. Glad I'm not in a relationship with you.

Scratch that. I would have probably done something to end it long, long ago if the bar is this low.
 
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#31 ·
I'm in a hurry this morning so I won't quote properly. I kind of got lost trying to say what Red Sonia said so succinctly. It has nothing to do with the chairs. it has to do with being in a relationship that includes punishment. French Fry asked CO Guy if he had ever said No where it didn't lead to anger. I believe he hasn't. Mostly because he rarely says No. But when I read the original post, I thought, My wife would not blow up the house over a No. I say no all of the time. but more often I say, "No, I don't want to do that, but, for you I will." When I do just say no, she will either do it without me, or decide it doesn't really have to be done, or done now, or find someone else to do it. This is the difference between me and her brothers (all younger). They will take her punishments, I don't. That is all the independence she needed to be attracted.
 
#37 ·
I get where you are coming from and have similar issues.

My experience has been that at first you have to draw a pretty hard line and just say if I don't want to do it, I'm not going to do it.

When you grow more confident that you can refuse whenever you want, it becomes a bit easier to be more flexible without questioning whether you're doing it for the right reasons.

In my case, if I get the sense that my wife thinks she is ordering me to do something, I stop right there.

For me, there's really only two categories: (1) stuff I actually want to do because I think it's the right thing to do and (2) stuff that I'm cool with doing as a straight up gift.

as soon as it becomes an obligation and I don't think it's necessary, I'm like, nope.
 
#39 ·
I think the million dollar question is why are you attracted to women like this? Sounds like you are observing a pattern here.

I was listening to John Tesh Radio (Don't judge. I have a long commute. ;) ) the other day, and he said something to the effect that some study showed the personality trait in wives that led to highest sexual frequency and sexual satisfaction in a marriage was agreeableness on the part of the wife. Who knows if it's true or not, but it is definitely something to think about when chasing after some high maintenance princess type. You get more "action" with the laid back gals. :)
 
#40 ·
Yeah I clearly recognize the pattern...recognized it before this relationship actually. Actually stopping myself is a different story. Very difficult to undo these reflexive emotional behaviors....I'd love a laid back girl but haven't found one yet LOL. Worried that something in my subconscious is turning them off and attracting the crazies. I need some sort of life coach to spy on my dates.
 
#41 ·
Mabye you are attracting the crazies. Mabye not. I have had to do some "pruning" of some high maintenance crazy female friendships over the years. What I noticed was they handed out a lot of verbal affirmation in the beginning (my love language btw) and me not not having the highest self esteem at the time fell for it. They also were very quick to tell their whole life stories. I didn't realize that this was a huge red flag for someone with crappy boundaries. Once I tried to assert my feelings, I was met with anger and manipulation. I've gotten better over the years of spotting it more quickly and cutting people like that out, which in turn leaves room and time for they really good friends.
 
#44 ·
No is an acceptable response.

I think saying, 'No but I'm happy to move the chairs when we get back' states what you are willing to offer in response to her request.

Just as you may be learning to say no, she may not be used to people saying no to her.
 
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#71 ·
I asked something of my husband. I felt (and admitted) it was a big favor but told him I was asking this of him because I felt nervous/anxious. He said no, told me his plans instead, and that he needed to know I could manage this thing by myself. He instead suggested a solution to help me out.

We understood where each other was coming from. On the day, he texted and asked how I was going and I told him I was all good, thanks to his suggestion! A good result in my book.
 
#46 ·
I feel like I am going to be the odd one out. But should "no" be an acceptable answer? Well it's always acceptable But, at least from my point of view, I would be hurt if I made a reasonable request of someone I was in a relationship with and they said no.

Of course, if I requested my boyfriend move some chairs in a few minutes, I would do it if they were small wouldn't take much time to do and wouldn't mess up his clothes. Would I accept the "no"? Well what else can I do. But it would do damage.

Of course, it also depends on why "no" is being said. Is it because you still have your own thing to do? In my mind, that would be reasonable. That would be setting a reasonable boundary. But if you were sitting on the couch doing much of nothing and you were asked to do a small task...well saying "no" would feel mean to me. And I would think less of you. Of course I don't like door mats, but I am also not willing to be in a relationship with someone who resents going out of his way for me.
 
#50 ·
It really just depends on the overall dynamic.

For example, if EVERY time you saw your husband/BF sitting on the couch you asked him to do something and then gave him attitude if he said "no" or "not now," then there would be an issue.

Or, if it was something you were perfectly capable of doing yourself, it would be an issue.

It's really about mutual respect. If you demonstrate respect for your SO's time an individual autonomy, then it's reasonable to expect that they will do you favors from time to time.

If you're not respectful, then you shouldn't expect favors. They're called favors for a reason.
 
#48 ·
Doing some reflecting on my codependency and boundaries, I'd like to bounce some stuff off some other people.



So as a people pleaser I tend to do things out of obligation. I probably went a little far on the spectrum but I tried making a conscious decision not to do anything that I really didn't want to do in my last relationship.



One time I was at my girlfriend's house and I was sitting on her couch. We were getting ready to leave in about 10-15 minutes and I was relaxed and feeling good. She said, "Hey before we go can you move these chairs upstairs?"



For whatever reason I really didn't feel like it, and so I told her, "I don't really feel like it to be honest. Maybe later?"



She got really mad about that and I saw some validity in her comments. Basically her response was that she couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to help her and that I was being selfish. That sometimes being in a relationship means doing things you don't necessarily WANT to do but you do it anyway.



Now the last part is kind of hogwash to me, because there were clearly times in the relationship before and after that where I was clearly doing something that I didn't really want to do, but did it because I wanted to please my partner (ie dishes, taking out trash, etc.). However, at this specific moment in time, my desire to not move the chairs outstripped my desire to please her.



So I ask you people of TAM, how do you feel about this? Was my refusal to move the chairs a problem? Should I have done it even though I didn't want to? Am I just immature? Was this a crossing of my personal boundary that should have been a red flag?


I don't typically do dishes or help my wife clean the house, etc to please her. And, we don't teach our boys that is the reason to pitch in. I do these things, my boys, my wife carries out such task because they have to get done. It's a tribal effort to make the mess, it's a tribal effort to clean it up.

I don't know the chair situation completely but I think you may be over thinking her motive as well as your own. It would have been better to say "ok, but if we do this together, we can get it done faster".


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