Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

What do you do when someone doesn't ask you to marry him?

6K views 67 replies 32 participants last post by  jld 
#1 ·
I’m 44 and my ‘boy’ friend is 50. We’ve been together for almost 7 years, living together for 6. And he hasn’t asked me to marry him.

At first I was relaxed about it... it’s not something you can hurry. I’m patient, I trusted that a proposal would happen in it’s own good time. But now the issue is becoming bigger and biggerand I really don’t know what to do. Right from the start I’ve always been totally upfront that I believe in love, and getting married, and my faith in happy relationships that last a lifetime.

Then last year he wanted me to have IVF to try to have a late baby. (He has no children, although I have 3 teenagers.) At 44, time was totally of essence, so I couldn’t delay the IVF. I also didn’t want to hold a gun to his head about getting engaged and ‘blackmail’ him with the threat of delaying IVF. (Although I would have drawn the line if the IVF had been successful, and not gone ahead with it without a proposal - AND the invites sent out.)

But it wasn’t successful. So now, on top of everything else, I worry that because I can’t have a child, he will be looking for someone else who is younger and can. (I have told him I feel this way). At the time, in counseling, I offered to leave him so he could find someone to have children with and he got teary and said he wouldn’t want to have children with anybody but me. We’re very happy and romantic and I have no doubt that he loves me. SO WHY WON’T HE MARRY ME??? It’s not like we’re free spirits who don’t care about a piece of paper. We’re both fairly traditional types, I have a religious background and so does he. All our friends and family are married. There’s no reason at all not to.

I’ve cried and told him exactly how I feel ... I’ve been calm and matter of fact and told him exactly how I feel ... and nothing. I know he needs time and patience, so I wait and wait and wait. But for SEVEN YEARS? He’s a closed book, non-communicative type, he gets tongue tied and silent and says in helpless, loving tones that I shouldn’t let it worry me. He says that he wanted a child with me, and that proves his commitment. (Sadly, I don't think it does in this day and age.)

It really is the one area in life where a female can’t make it happen, it’s the man who needs to. It sucks. I’m the sort of person who gets upset about something but then stops being upset and forgets about it for a while, I guess I have a fairly sunny nature, so I never really make too big a deal of it for very long. I guess if I got upset, and stayed upset, it might cause something to happen. But then I don’t think me being upset for a prolonged period of time is going to help a relationship very much... all the more reason for him not to propose! A proposal that I force out of him by ultimatum isn’t what I want to do at all... I don’t want to force anyone into anything. I don’t want to drag anyone kicking and screaming to the altar!

And he’s stubborn and pigheaded enough to dig his heels in until it’s too late, he hates to be railroaded and told what to do. I’ve told him how much it hurts me. So add to all this, the growing resentment I feel that he knows he’s hurting me, but doesn’t do anything about it. The longer he delays, I feel this sinking feeling of seeing the man I love behaving like a jerk, it’s breaking my heart that he betrayed the trust I placed in him.

It seems crazy to leave a successful relationship but what else can I do? Not to mention the fact that I’m midway through setting up a new business and not as financially independent as I usually am right now, it would be quite difficult to leave. Also, it would kill me if I left him and moved on and he learns his lesson and goes on to marry someone else!!!!! Part of me understands it’s just a piece of paper, nothing more than a thought construct in my head, but still... we have a wedding coming up next week of a friends of ours who met AFTER WE DID. I’m dreading the wedding, I’m worried I’m going to cry and make a fool of myself in front of everybody we know. And facing the inevitable questions as to why we're not married yet, people pitying me.... And not to be a bragger, but I am NICE! It’s never been hard for me to meet men, I’ve had plenty of men in love with me in my lifetime. I still attract guys if I go out. There is nothing wrong with me, I'm a normal woman that is as worthy to be married as anybody else.

It is partly his personality. He takes forever to make a decision and he overthinks even the simplest thing, it took him months of research to just buy a pair of skis or decide what to do about the faulty air conditioning. Hence the fact that I have waited. Apparently he was a commitment phobe in the past, with an on and off girlfriend that he never married or even lived with, and everyone was amazed when he actually did commit and asked me and my 3 children to move in with him.

I should add that he was totally the one that chased me from the start... I am a firm believer in not chasing men, let them initiate, I've read the "He's just not that into you" book and totally agree. But I really don't know how to apply that in this situation.

The ‘men are from mars’ type self help books say things like roll the relationship back a stage ... but it’s a bit hard when you’re actually LIVING together and virtually ARE married. Not to mention it feels manipulative and calculating. I feel like if he really love me he would marry me, if he doesn’t love me enough to marry me, then I should leave him. But in my heart of hearts I know he DOES love me! No idea how to deal with this!
 
See less See more
#2 ·
There's a lot here, a lot I'd like to write, but I'm on a phone so I may come back to edit later.

But for the moment, I can understand how you feel in many respects, but as much as you say that the reason you are not married is his fault, I actually believe it is yours.

You stayed with him for 7 years.
You did not leave him to pursue what you really wanted.
You kept building a life with and around him despite this, so now you feel stuck.
From my personal perspective, if a man doesn't want to marry you in two years, he doesn't want to marry you. Yes, some men take a lot longer to decide, but you may not want to be the person waiting. Just as some women (like myself) want to wait to have sex. Some men do not want to wait, and I would always encourage them to find a more suitable woman, and they would. Telling him now to go find another woman, when you've stayed with him for 7 years, is not something he's going to take seriously. He knows that you aren't going anywhere.

I am very sorry about the IVF treatments not working, but your chances, given both your ages, are going to be slim. It is not your fault...it just is. I used to work at a biotechnology company, and I've also got some first hand experience. If he wants a child, that's HIS internal struggle. I can't really tell from your post if you were as keen to have children, so I don't want to downplay your desire if it was genuine, too. I can appreciate he wants a child with you, but IVF is not a miracle cure... You must always be real about your chances and the factors unfortunately working against you.
Please, please stop comparing your status with friends, family, whomever. That is disrespectful to your own relationship, which will go at the pace you both decide and allow. It will make you jealous of other people's lives and that jealousy will cover over any genuine happiness you could have. I myself got married for the second time before my best friend has even got a proposal. While I care for her and think she is wonderful, I also know there are many things that she allows in her relationship which goes against what she says she wants. So from my perspective, unless she makes drastic changes, her life is going to stay exactly as it is and the proposal will always be out of her grasp. I've been very frank with her, but she is the master of her own destiny.
 
#3 ·
We were together for over 7 years before we got married. We'd both had bad marriages before, so were wary of the pitfalls of marriage. We were very worried that marriage would ruin our great relationship, to the extent that we agreed to divorce if we started taking each other for granted, and try to recapture what we had. Marriage to us is not important, other than for some pragmatic benefits provided by law to married people.

If marriage is that important to you, then ask for it, and if he doesn't step up, leave. It will be hard, and you may not find as good a relationship later - with or without marriage - but you will have the opportunity to seek that out if that's what you want.
 
#4 ·
But you DID get married! Even you, who states that you don't think it's important! (Or did you really get married for purely pragmatic benefits, if so what were they?) To me, marriage is something joyful that you do when you love someone. It's a declaration of your hope and belief that you've found a true love and the person you'll grow old with. And that you commit your best intentions and efforts to having a happy relationship with that person. Wow I should write for Hallmark. I feel as if by not marrying me, it's a statement that he's not really that committed, and doesn't really love me enough for that, and he's allowing for the possibility that someone better will come along. People look on and perceive it that way, I know for a fact they do, and I feel humiliated and like I have to hold my head up high in the face of what they think. I know.. I shouldn't care what my friends, family, and social circles think, but I'm human and I do. (And yes, I do realise being married doesn't guarantee anything.)
 
#7 ·
Have you shared this with him? Because if so this alone can be very counter productive. I had a Gf a few years back who I had to break up with over this very issue. Difference is we only went out a 18 months . We didn't make it to 6 month before she started in with the marriage thing and spoke much like you did in this post. So let me tell you how I perceived what you are saying in my guy brain.

You think of marriage as a goal, a status, a priority but not the relationship. You care more about What others think than what I think. You aren't willing to make the priority a great relationship before talks of marriage.

So this of course led to arguments. I couldnt help but feel that all she was really interested in was the status of a marriage and not me. Like anyone willing to marry her would do I was just the available choice at the moment. The more she talked about it and whined about it the more turned off it I became until finally I realized that if I stayed or god forbid if I ever married her I would always feel that I was just a convienant choice. If she had ever said, just once, I don't care if we marry or not I just want to be with you I would have probably purposed in a heartbeat. However the nagging and my gut telling me she only wanted the status and not me lead me to break it off with her.

Less than 4 months later, 4 MONTHs, she married some other guy and proved me right.

Does anything I typed here sounds like something he has said to you?
 
#5 ·
Marriage is a priority for you and you stated that early on but you don't mention his view on getting married. Sounds like he doesn't want to. No idea his backstory but marriage/divorce isn't always a great endeavor for men and if he has been through that he might be gun shy. That said you are under no obligation to wait here, you realize that. Unless their is something you haven't told us specifically why he won't marry you then chances are this is just how he wants life. So you stay in the good realtioship or move on to find another. If this is really important to you then don't let what you want be determined by someone else. He of course needs to do the same.
 
#11 ·
Marriage and children were always part of his life plan - but in the future. I think he somehow expected the children to materialize complete with a mother while he was at the pub. I think it's a bit of a shock to him to have reached 50 with no children. He had a 15 year on/off relationship that was rocky - she desperately wanted marriage and children but he wouldn't commit. Then he met someone else and didn't commit to her either. So I'm the most successful relationship he's had yet. He occasionally refers to me as his wife. Once he was looking for some jewelery to buy me as a gift when we were overseas and the only ring that fit me was a little too reminiscent of an engagement ring. He said something about when he buys the engagement ring it's going to be better than that ring. (The ring was nothing special.) He's the sort of guy that would research a diamond ring for months before he buys it. It will take a lot of his headspace to propose. I couldn't care less about rings and weddings and all that stuff. I know I don't have to wait... but I really hate the idea of my second relationship breaking up.
 
#6 ·
From my personal perspective, if a man doesn't want to marry you in two years, he doesn't want to marry you. Yes, some men take a lot longer to decide, but you may not want to be the person waiting. I don't think you can put a timeline on it, especially when it wasn't my first marriage and I already had children, and everybody is different. But sure... 2 years is a reasonable timeframe.

Another child is not an option for me now. I am happy with my three, and only wanted another one for his sake. I would have been happy to have another one with him had it worked out that way.
 
#13 ·
This is so difficult to address properly.

Yes marriage is only a piece of paper...........NOT. It is a legal document binding two souls under the power of the law. This guy has trust issues. He wants to stay with you but does not want to legally bind his life to yours.

He is not stubborn. He is selfish....selfishly stubborn, if you will.

You say you do not want to force him to marry you. Separating and telling him he must marry you IS forcing him. You know this. He would agree.

But this is your only viable choice.

Tell him how you feel: He is the one for you, you love him with all your heart, you want to spend all your days with him. You have no intention of ever marrying another man, should you separate.

Tell him this with tears in your heart....if that is WHAT YOU TRULY FEEL!

Tell him that you would never force him to decide to do anything. He must do this on his own.

Then move out and make him do all the heavy lifting and courting and all that he should be willing to do. Be sweet and kind the whole time. You do not want to drive him away.

You want him to {want to} marry you, and it to be documented for all of eternity. Legally bound to you.

You have to be willing to lose him to win his 100% commitment. He needs to grow up and be a Husband, not a BFF.

He is biding his time........for what? Ding, Ding, Ding.....his time is Up.......no, down the drain!
 
#8 ·
It really is the one area in life where a female can’t make it happen, it’s the man who needs to. It sucks. I’m the sort of person who gets upset about something but then stops being upset and forgets about it for a while, I guess I have a fairly sunny nature, so I never really make too big a deal of it for very long. I guess if I got upset, and stayed upset, it might cause something to happen. But then I don’t think me being upset for a prolonged period of time is going to help a relationship very much... all the more reason for him not to propose! A proposal that I force out of him by ultimatum isn’t what I want to do at all... I don’t want to force anyone into anything. I don’t want to drag anyone kicking and screaming to the altar!

...

The ‘men are from mars’ type self help books say things like roll the relationship back a stage ... but it’s a bit hard when you’re actually LIVING together and virtually ARE married. Not to mention it feels manipulative and calculating. I feel like if he really love me he would marry me, if he doesn’t love me enough to marry me, then I should leave him. But in my heart of hearts I know he DOES love me! No idea how to deal with this!
Oh that's so much BS. This is 2016. If you want to marry him, then pop the question yourself. He'll either say yes, in which case the problem is solved, or he'll hem and haw or say no. In which case you know the relationship isn't going where you want it to, and you can do that relationship evaluation he's been manipulating you into avoiding up to now.

Sadly, to me, it sounds like he already has everything he wants from you, and isn't willing to take that last step that you want because the formality of marriage just isn't as important to him as it is to you. You're the only one who can decide if that's a relationship dealbreaker for you.
 
#9 ·
I’ve cried and told him exactly how I feel ... I’ve been calm and matter of fact and told him exactly how I feel ... and nothing. I know he needs time and patience, so I wait and wait and wait. But for SEVEN YEARS? He’s a closed book, non-communicative type, he gets tongue tied and silent and says in helpless, loving tones that I shouldn’t let it worry me. He says that he wanted a child with me, and that proves his commitment. (Sadly, I don't think it does in this day and age.)
I don't understand what he has said to you these many times you have expressed your feelings and thoughts about marriage. What has he SAID about marriage? Has he told you he never wants to get married? Does he talk about someday getting married but not now? Has he said he doesn't believe in marriage? Have you asked him straight out whether he ever thinks he wants to marry, and to marry you?

When he said that you "shouldn't let it worry you" and wanting a child "proves his commitment" what do you say? Do you tell him that it does worry you and that children don't prove commitment and you need to understand his views on marriage? Or do you just drop it?

If he has trouble communicating, maybe you could try communicating through writing. Some people who are unable to speak during discussions are able to express themselves in writing where they have time to think and choose their words.

In any case, though, since you've had these many discussions over 7 years, I think the short answer is he does not want to get married. You have to decide if you can live with things as they are forever, or whether you can't deal with it and have to move on. You don't have to decide instantly, but if he won't talk about it and he doesn't want to get married, you have to accept that.

My fiance and I are older (49 and 50), and have been together many years before getting engaged, first marriage for both of us. We're both probably commitment phobes in our own ways. But we spent a couple of years talking about it and planning for it (marriage, not a wedding), so it wasn't a matter of one pushing the other. We never lived together, though. Seems like you've already done the hard part - building a life together over the past 7 years. Maybe ask him what he thinks will change if you get married.
 
#10 ·
i agree with most of the above.

in this day and age (or whenever for that matter), it's ok for a woman to suggest, or even ask for marriage.

it's traditional for the man to formally ask (propose), but it's not undignified for the woman to express her opinions, hopes ,desires and dreams.
in fact, you diminish your dignity by not saying anything, stating your needs, or holding your ground!

my own wife told me several times "don't make me wait too long!". so i got on my knees and popped the question.
 
#12 ·
GOOD ON YOU! However, I HAVE expressed my desires... lightheartedly and playfully in the early stages, but lately i've been upset about it. HOW do I stand my ground?? I can't hold a gun to his head! What would your wife have done if you'd made her wait too long? Her only recourse would have been to leave you.. really not a nice option.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate the time you've spent to respond. It's helps. Sorry I can't seem to reply direct to the person saying it.. but to Wolf: WOW 4 months later engaged, that's crazy! Honestly, no, I'm not like that though. I've already been married and had children and am 44 so it's a kind of different scenario to being young and starting out. Also, we're almost 7 years in now... so it's only in the last 2-3 years I've been getting antsy about it.

He's hard to pin down and communicate with. He doesn't really answer.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate the time you've spent to respond. It's helps. Sorry I can't seem to reply direct to the person saying it.. but to Wolf: WOW 4 months later engaged, that's crazy! Honestly, no, I'm not like that though. I've already been married and had children and am 44 so it's a kind of different scenario to being young and starting out. Also, we're almost 7 years in now... so it's only in the last 2-3 years I've been getting antsy about it.

He's hard to pin down and communicate with. He doesn't really answer.
Actions speak louder than words...trite, but true.

So....................hit him with actions, sans words. Words have no effect on Mr. Stubborn?

Actions? Oh, Yeah!

Separate.
 
#16 ·
As a woman who has had three failed marriages (yes you read that right, THREE FAILED MARRIAGES...hence my user name!), I feel compelled to comment.

Being married is great. You get warm fuzzies knowing that you have a partner for life, someone who "belongs" to you and who you "belong" to. There is a comfort in that. HOWEVER. If the RELATIONSHIP between the two married people isn't rock solid, the whole MARRIED title doesn't mean a damn thing. I have come to realize that what is important is a good, solid, loving relationship. If you have a good man who is faithful to you, who is there for you when you need him, who tells you and shows you that he loves you and is committed to you...then you have everything.

Ell, I think you need to back off of the marriage thing for a bit. Appreciate what you have. I think if you do that, just enjoy things for a while, then your SO will eventually step up and propose. Do you really want to lose him over this if he doesn't? I think @Wolf1974's post is extremely relevant here, make sure you re-read it. I do wish you the best.
 
#18 ·
Then move out and make him do all the heavy lifting and courting and all that he should be willing to do. Be sweet and kind the whole time. You do not want to drive him away.
Agree. Other people are saying this too in the thread and I guess that's all I can do. So sad that it comes to that after 7 years. And I think if I'm forced to do that there'll be no going back. Deep down I feel this massive hurt at what's happened and I don't think I'll be able to forgive. Ultimately I just want him to really love me and care about what's important to me and I'm so sad that he's proving that he doesn't.

We have an overseas holiday with my children booked for January. To be honest I don't want to miss out on that (at least I admit it) so here's my plan: I'm going to just focus on getting my business launched... build up my savings... strengthen my friendships with my girlfriends ... continue to be friendly/cook his meals/hold up my end of the relationship to keep things harmonious ... but not be my usual affectionate self that's always got the relationship as the priority. For instance here I am now (it's 11.30pm in Australia) at the computer instead of downstairs with him hanging out. I've said I'm working... which I am actually, as soon as I finish writing this ; ) I'm just going to disengage a bit. Tomorrow night I'm supposed to go out with him and his 2 sisters and his mother for her birthday. Normally I wouldn't miss it for the world because I really like his mother and love going out with his family. But maybe I should make some reason and not go. I feel really sad for all the emotional investment I've made into his family too : (
 
#23 ·
so here's my plan: I'm going to just focus on getting my business launched... build up my savings... strengthen my friendships with my girlfriends ... continue to be friendly/cook his meals/hold up my end of the relationship to keep things harmonious ... but not be my usual affectionate self that's always got the relationship as the priority. For instance here I am now (it's 11.30pm in Australia) at the computer instead of downstairs with him hanging out. I've said I'm working... which I am actually, as soon as I finish writing this ; ) I'm just going to disengage a bit. Tomorrow night I'm supposed to go out with him and his 2 sisters and his mother for her birthday. Normally I wouldn't miss it for the world because I really like his mother and love going out with his family. But maybe I should make some reason and not go. I feel really sad for all the emotional investment I've made into his family too : (
This is called a covert contract and it's a terrible idea. After seven years, obviously he doesn't want to marry you.

If for nothing else, the legal contract it forms. Right now, he gets everything he needs and doesn't have to fear dealing with a divorce.

Why should he propose? If you force his hand he will ALWAYS resent you for it. Is that what you want? I don't doubt he loves you.

However, honestly, its better to just end the relationship if marriage is THIS important to you. As someone who WAS married, my opinion?

It is JUST a piece of paper. Your life won't change at all seeing how intertwined it is. You'd be better off just being happy with what you have.
 
#22 ·
What are the laws in your area regarding common-law marriage? Given that you've been together this long, you may already be married. If this might be the case now (or soon), you could use it as rationale for going ahead and getting it done official.

ETA: Never mind. Just Googled it and recognized that my perceptions of common-law marriage are a myth. Please return to your regular programming.
 
#26 ·
I'm with you OP. Marriage is important - but I could care less what others think.

If others' perceptions are important about this, then separately deal with that - go to an IC and talk about why other people's opinions are so important to you that they destroy your happiness.

If you want to be married because you want to be married TO THIS GUY, then I would agree with you.

In that case you have a couple of options: wait and build resentment; choose a really nice location and time and directly propose to him (no crying or talking about your emotions about not being married - I mean really propose); or let him know, in a loving, non-threatening way that marriage to HIM is the next most important step in your relationship, and ask him to think about that for a while and give you an answer when he's comfortable.

In the third option I WOULD NOT set a timeline out loud and resist if he asks. Tell him he owns his own timeline for deciding what he wants to do and you'll respect that.

However... I'd set an internal timeline that is good for you. Knowing how deliberate he is it might have to be a year. In that time, NEVER talk about it again.

But... watch your time line and mentally prepare for your next move in life, which is probably to move out. If you have had this honest discussion and not brought it up again, he will have been put on notice. You won't have to explain yourself. Just maybe have a plan in place to move out, and before you do let him know that's your next step although it's not the one you were hoping for. Put that way, you've given him time and space, and your giving him one more chance to come to the same conclusion you've made, which is that marriage is important and the next step.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#27 ·
I agree that 2 years seems to be a reasonable amount of time to wait for a man to propose. Unfortunately, time goes by so quickly and before you know it many more years have passed. This is what happened to you by no fault of your own.

One of the main reasons for marriage is security. Mainly financial and medical decisions are much easier to make when you have legal documents. After 7 years together, you should feel comfortable bringing this up to your boyfriend.

I would wait until the opportunity presents itself, when you are both in relaxed good moods.Then I'd casually mention the time you have invested in this relationship and your need to protect each other. Discuss the financial advantages of being married. Workplace benefits, life insurance, pensions, health insurance, etc..

If he doesn't see these as reasons to get married, suggest setting up these protections without getting married. Make each other medical proxies (if you feel you can trust him), get a will, make sure that if something happens to him you can stay in the home you've made together. Joint life insurance policies are another option.

He should see your concerns as legitimate. Time to move on if he doesn't. His options should be to get married or go to a lawyer and set up financial/medical protections equivalent to a married couple.

Good luck! I hope he sees the light. You are not legally married yet so are under no obligation to try to make this work. Don't live with another 7 years of uncertainty.
 
#30 ·
7 years is more than enough time for him to decide. 4 years is still more than enough time (you said you've only been antsy about it for the last 3 years). If it's not happened now sweets, it's not going to. At least not without ultimatums etc. and you sure don't want him marrying you because you forced him into it...yuck.

I made it clear to my then boyfriend, when he said he thought 5 years was a good amount of time to be together and then propose, that no way was I waiting 5 years. I had no desire to be a 5 year girlfriend. Then he said 2 years, hehehe. I agreed that was reasonable. If I'm good enough to live with, sleep with and help raise his daughter, put a ring on it buddy! Rofl. We dated for a year, lived together for a year and then got married.

One night we were in bed, it was late and we were chatting as couples do, about the future, marriage, etc. I said "If you're not ready that's ok, but you need to tell me, I need to know that, and if you are ready, get on with it" hehehe. A few weeks later he proposed :D

If I were in your position, I would simply say to him "Your reluctance to marry me after all I've invested in this relationship and our life together is making me feel uncertain about our relationship. I am moving out to think about what I want and where we go from here". And then move out. Either he'll step up or he won't, but either way you'll have your answer.

*I'm his second wife, and I don't have any children. We likely would have waited longer had we both had children in the mix
 
#31 ·
It doesn't sound like this guy had any idea what IVF treatments are like for the woman. What a selfish person. You might want to consider your self lucky that they didn't produce a pregnancy. He may never want to be married.

Al Pacino convinced then-girlfriend Beverly D'Angelo to undergo IVF. At the age of 49 she delivered twins and two years later Pacino dumped her. He has 3 kids and still has never married.

You've given him 7 years of your life - move on and find a like-minded man who respects you.
 
#34 ·
It is clear as day that you and this man have different values. You think the institution of marriage is important and he does not. This is a fundamentally different world view.

There's no right or wrong here, just different and non-negotiable needs. Time to part company. If you pressure him to marry you, it will damage your relationship. If you stay and accept cohabitation without a contract, it will damage your relationship. Just look at your plan to pull back on affection. That is a surefire start to the relationship circling the bowl.

He does not need to learn any lessons and you don't need to accept that marriage is "just a piece of paper." If you are truly honest with yourself, the choices of this reluctant man so far past what you deem to be a "reasonable" amount of time have most likely already negatively tainted the whole endeavor for you anyway.

The great task for the future is to truly know yourself, in a brutally honest way. There are many things that you want in a relationship. Some are negotiable and some are deal breakers. Since marriage seems to be a deal breaker for you, you really should have been able to see a long time ago that you and this man are fundamentally incompatible. Think back. You knew this was a real problem with this man and you chose to live in denial.

Know what you must have and refuse to compromise on the fundamentals. If something is going to fail, it's best that it fail as soon as possible.

Good luck finding what you are looking for.
 
#36 ·
If you still love him with all of your heart and soul, then what is remotely wrong with asking him?

Not to intend crassness, but if he either says no, or only offers you some kind of placating gibberish while continuing intoning " a no," then it's long past time to tell him to take a hike, and break his faulty schoolboy mantra of "Why marry the cow now that I'm getting 'the milk' for free?"

Posted via Mobile Device
 
#39 ·
Somehow, even in this day and age, it's still a man's thing to do. It just is. And also he is the type of guy who will really only be enthusiastic about something if it's his idea. I really wouldn't want to have him accept my proposal because he knows the only other option is to break up and then I'm doing all the wedding organising in the face of his reluctance and it's all my idea and he's my hesitant groom that I wangled into marrying me.
 
#37 ·
Thank you all so much for your replies.

For the record, I DID go the birthday last night (I was the cake picker upper) and we had sex this morning and I was his sounding board for the interminable decision making process about what to do about the air conditioning... so my plan to cool off a bit isn't within my capabilities obviously and as someone said a convert contract is a terrible idea.

Yes, I shouldn't care what people think, that's something I need to work on. Why should it matter to me what a bunch of acquaintances think about it???

In Australia, legally I think I actually do have all the rights associated with marriage, it's termed 'defacto'. But that is not the issue at all for me. And yes, I agree with the person who said he was selfish for suddenly wanting children at this stage. He's full of faults to be honest, but a lot of people are and I accept him despite them and he lots of compensating qualities I love. Also, pretty sure that if IVF had been successful, he would have done the marriage thing on the spot overnight. In any case, in Australia, you wouldn't even need to be married, the contract and paternal responsibility is implicit in the fact that you are together.

Boiling it down, everyone's advice is to accept that he won't marry me and put up with it. Or issue an ultimatum and then leave. Or accept that he's a jerk and move on. Even the suggestions about calmly stating my position, giving him space, proposing myself (WON'T BE DOING THAT however in a sense of course I've already 'proposed' by asking him to ask me to marry him) many of which I have already done - even these sane and sensible suggestions in the end boil down to these awful choices.

I guess I do need to have that frank discussion about WHY he hasn't. He's vaguely stated that he will one day.... but not WHEN. In our nursing home??? We could have a funeral-wedding??? He is not a good communicator and I'm loathe to force this conversation and really get down to the nuts and bolts of when and why... kinda wrecks the mood. It should be a romantic thing that happens joyfully and willingly! It's like pulling the wings off a butterfly to know if it can fly. But I guess that's all I can do.
 
#41 ·
Hey @ell, I think you're a really brilliant woman with a good sense of self and that you've been through your share of internal emotional battles. You seem to me as a woman just waiting for her heyday, like you've done more than your part, gone over and above, for a long time and you just want your man to make you feel like all that effort and love wasn't in vain or misspent on the wrong guy. The way this would confirm it for you is if he proposed.

If I'm anywhere close to the mark in what I think, then I know exactly what being in that place feels like. If I'm way off, please blast me away for my ignorance.

If proposing to him is not an option, is it because it would only prevent you from really knowing if he'd ever do it himself? Are you worried he might hesitate in giving a response? Are you worried he'd reply in the negative? Is the question, "will you marry me?" scary if it comes from you, because it may tip the otherwise stable apple cart of your relationship?

I'm just trying to get a better understanding.
 
#47 · (Edited)
Hey @ell, I think you're a really brilliant woman with a good sense of self and that you've been through your share of internal emotional battles. You seem to me as a woman just waiting for her heyday, like you've done more than your part, gone over and above, for a long time and you just want your man to make you feel like all that effort and love wasn't in vain or misspent on the wrong guy. The way this would confirm it for you is if he proposed.

If I'm anywhere close to the mark in what I think, then I know exactly what being in that place feels like. If I'm way off, please blast me away for my ignorance.
Haha Satya you're very close to the mark. Spot on. Especially about me being a really brilliant woman ; ) After thinking about it, I do believe if I orchestrated the whole thing with a frank discussion and extreme diplomatic skills, he would go along with it and be fine about it and we'd be married. Or if I raised the roof and staged a show and moved out he wouldn't want to lose me. But I hate drama, life's too short. And as you say, I want the confirmation, the gesture of him willingly initiating it.

I guess this is similar to the whole IVF thing. After we'd been dating for about 6 months, he raised the idea of me moving in with him, and maybe one day having a child together. Someone said that after 6 months a guy will propose if he's really into you; I think THERE was my 'proposal'. That was BIG coming from him, he's very cagey and cautious and a commitment phobe. You asked me why I thought I was different, that's why - he hadn't done that before with anybody. Also I think it was the timing - he just finally accepted the fact he wasn't immune to time. Before that I guess he thought he would be forever 29 with his whole life ahead of him. Also we are very compatible.

So after another 6 months, I moved in with my children. I am just as happy without more children. I had 3 gorgeous children already, but another one would have been great ... IF that's the way the path went. Once or twice he faintly raised the idea of children again... but he wasn't sure if he wanted them or not. During that time he had serious dramas with his own father (difficult relationship there) and decided he DIDN'T want them (he admitted that recently). I TOTALLY left the decision to him. I said to him once or twice that HE needed to be one hundred percent sure to have a child at any stage, let alone so late in life. I think he was waiting for me to push it and make the decision for him. So finally, when it was too late, he was 100% certain and wanted to do IVF.

He's bad with decisions and communication. If I hold him down and sit on him and try to make him communicate he goes cagey and indecisive and retreats under the couch.
 
#43 · (Edited)
I heard once that if a guy is really into you, he will ask you to marry him within 6 months.

Now, that might be younger guys. We all cool our jets a bit as we get older.

But when I first heard that piece of info., I had that sudden feeling of, "that's the truth".

It's all very egalitarian to think that women can ask guys to marry them; and it's just the same as when men ask women.

I don't think it is the same. @ell you touched on this when you said that he likes to be the one who comes up with an idea or plan---he doesn't like to be told what to do.

I think that is a lot more common in men than we admit anymore.

I wouldn't ask him to marry me, if I were in your shoes. Because just by reading your posts, I can tell how much you emotionally need him to ask you. If you ask, even if he says yes; I think you'll always be wondering if he *really* wanted to, for his own sake.

I'm so glad you didn't have kids with him. Men have a longer window of opportunity to have kids. But if they diddle around until 50; then they usually only have kids if they marry a much younger woman. Makes sense. You had kids when you were young enough to do so. He should have done the same if he wanted kids. Time waits for no-one.


Btw, when I started living with my (now) husband, I mentally told myself that if we weren't planning on getting married in three years; I would leave.

At the 2-1/2 year mark, I got religious, and told him I was leaving THEN if we didn't get married.

He was already latently religious himself; he went and got the marriage license the next day.

I would not do it that way again. I'm sure he did it because if I had left; he would have been stuck paying the bills on his own---not splitting them in half with me. Not that he didn't love me; but I think he would have been happy to continue on unmarried.

And it's always been something I look back on with insecurity. And I know, I know: it's my fault. I was too stupid/inexperienced back then to fully understand myself.

So, for some of us, marriage is WAY more than "just a piece of paper". The willingness and desire to get married means something. And the lack of desire/lack of interest in getting married speaks volumes too.
 
#44 ·
I heard once that if a guy is really into you, he will ask you to marry him within 6 months.

Now, that might be younger guys. We all cool our jets a bit as we get older.

But when I first heard that piece of info., I had that sudden feeling of, "that's the truth".

It's all very egalitarian to think that women can ask guys to marry them; and it's just the same as when men ask women.

I don't think it is the same. @ell you touched on this when you said that he likes to be the one who comes up with an idea or plan---he doesn't like to be told what to do.

I think that is a lot more common in men than we admit anymore.

I wouldn't ask him to marry me, if I were in your shoes. Because just by reading your posts, I can tell how much you emotionally need him to ask you. If you ask, even if he says yes; I think you'll always be wondering if he *really* wanted to, for his own sake.

I'm so glad you didn't have kids with him. Men have a longer window of opportunity to have kids. But if they diddle around until 50; then they usually only have kids if they marry a much younger woman. Makes sense. You had kids when you were young enough to do so. He should have done the same if he wanted kids. Time waits for no-one.


Btw, when I started living with my (now) husband, I mentally told myself that if we weren't planning on getting married in three years; I would leave.

At the 2-1/2 year mark, I got religious, and told him I was leaving THEN if we didn't get married.

He was already latently religious himself; he went and got the marriage license the next day.

I would not do it that way again. I'm sure he did it because if I had left; he would have been stuck paying the bills on his own---not splitting them in half with me. Not that he didn't love me; but I think he would have been happy to continue on unmarried.

And it's always been something I look back on with insecurity. And I know, I know: it's my fault. I was too stupid/inexperienced back then to fully understand myself.

So, for some of us, marriage is WAY more than "just a piece of paper". The willingness and desire to get married means something. And the lack of desire/lack of interest in getting married speaks volumes too.
I agree with you here. Certainly some guys would find it flattering to be asked to marry but I wouldn't. That would be a huge deal breaker to me. I may just be more traditional than most but I still hold the belief that this is something a guy does if that's what he wants. So to the OP either you agree with this or you recognize that he wouldn't accept a purposal coming from you. Either way follow your instinct on that one and don't ask.


I still do think and now you realize you have to find out what and why he doesn't want to be married. Can't really give advice and you can't determine a course of action without knowing what is going on in his head.
 
#45 ·
It might help you in the long term to try to stop labeling him negatively due to his differing needs. He is not a "jerk" as you say because he does not want to marry you any more than you are because you demand marriage. They are simply different needs. Wildly incompatible needs. Mutually exclusive needs.

There is no moral high ground in this issue. You are both foolish to continue this relationship which looks to be sailing at high speed right into the jetty. Only one of you can get what he/she wants, and the other will clearly end up unhappy and resentful. You both have allowed this fundamental mismatch to continue far beyond its logical lifespan.

It is very tempting to vilify and blame the other person when they fail to meet our needs. It has a satisfying quality in the short term, but it usually only results in us failing to take responsibility for our own happiness and taking the necessary actions to improve our lives.

Life doesn't just happen to most of us. We are the architects of the situations in which we find ourselves. When the outcome is not favorable, it is our responsibility to make new choices. Failure to act is yet another choice.

There are no guarantees and some of us will never create the life we want. All we can do is keep trying. Even the right choice often comes with some negative outcome.

Stop waiting for someone else to fulfill your wishes. Your life is in your power alone.
 
#65 ·
I very much agree with this post.. this IS the hard reality...

Speaking for myself ...when I was younger.. I literally got down on my knees & prayed for a good man, a man who wanted a family, who loved me for me, wanted all of me, as his wife.....this was my dream...I sought another who BELIEVED in and valued marriage... otherwise.. it just wouldn't have worked.. I was stubborn!!.. these were my ideals...
Back then this wasn't so hard to find though .. but today.. God help women who still care!...

I feel for my own daughter on this one.. it's just a different world today..
 
#49 ·
@ell, I dated a younger version of your guy about 5 years ago. We'd been friends for 8 years. I loved him but he'd make major life steps at a snails pace. I kept asking him why he would allow life to pass him by. I think it was a kind of fear a headstrong woman like myself just couldn't understand (not for lack of trying).

Anyway, I haven't talked to him in 5 years, and honestly, I actually do hope my actions changed his life for the better, even if I won't enjoy those changes. I'd moved well on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MEM2020
#63 ·
Yes, it is allowing life to pass you by! It IS fear! Or refusing to face the fact that time marches on. For instance he was going to buy a new house, he even sold another one he had so he could put the money towards this proposed new house! That was three years ago! We looked and looked and looked, it's hard work househunting! But then he was just too hesitant and couldn't make a decision. A couple of times a truly fabulous house would come up for sale and he would a-l-m-o-s-t buy it and then chicken out at the last minute. So freaking frustrating. He was looking for something that didn't exist. Like a house in Australia that is also within within walking distance to Time Square and the Eiffel Tower. Illogical! In the meantime, the house we're in doesn't feel like a long term home any more. So that search is on the back boiler. So instead he sits and watches OTHER PEOPLE house hunting on 'Escape to the Country' the most boring TV show on earth. arghgh
 
#53 ·
Do you think he might be dragging his feet because he knows you can't give him a child of his own? Maybe somewhere in the back of his mind he is purposely keeping one foot out the door thinking he'll find that opportunity with someone else?

I really hope that is not the case!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top