YinPrincess

The arguement: I've asked my husband to take the next term of school off to spend time with me before we have the baby. This is our final few months childfree and I'd like to enjoy it.

He sees this as a power play.

I feel like he doesn't love me, and is avoiding me.

There are some contradictions you'll find in his statements:

A.) He thinks he won't be able to go to school in the spring if he takes a term off. I've been a student off and on for years. I know this isn't true.

B.) He is now using our unborn daughter, (yes the one he wanted to abort), as an excuse to go to school. But what is the point of attending this winter term if he cannot return for the spring term?

C.) How does going to school benefit our daughter if he will not be getting a degree or certification? Remember, he initially said he was going to school because he was "bored" and it resulted in reduced hours and income for us, due to decreased hours at work. He did this AFTER finding out I was pregnant. Great timing.

I am not a perfect communicator, and yes, I've fallen completely off the 180 wagon for now. I was a bit sarcastic and snide at times, I know. I'm vulnerable so please understand that...

AM I UNREASONABLE FOR ASKING HIM TO TAKE A SINGLE TERM OFF FROM SCHOOL BEFORE WE HAVE OUR BABY??

He is just thinking it's four hours a week, not accounting for the time that he'll also be working, AND spending HOURS doing homework. Just wanted this time for us both to relax and bond and prepare... I want him to be available to take parenting classes with me - and as it stands, he will be working and attending school FOUR whole days a week.

Cookies and Kudos to anyone who gets through this. It's *very* long, but I've tried to break it up to make it easier to read... I may delete it, if it's just too much...

I just want help improving MY communication, and help seeing where HIS communication faults are, so that we can work on them. IF he'll work on them with me.


Me: What kind of man can’t give up one term of school, just one term for his family? How selfish!
Me: You will only get to experience it once, but school you can do as long as you’re alive. I can’t believe you’re so narrow-minded!

H: You seem to fixate on a few evenings as the reason for not being involved. When Sat. Sun and most of Mondays will be available.
H: That seems to be brew minded and stubborn.

Me: Brew minded?
Me: This is the last bit of time we have before we have a kid for forever on, and you can’t take some time to bond with me and the pregnancy?
Me: You’ll never get this time back in your lifetime. Ever. If that means nothing to you then you no longer mean anything to me.

H: That seems to be brew minded and stubborn. (resent the same message).
H: I’ve noticed that for some time. You don’t want to treat me as an equal. So be it.

Me: What the f*** is “brew minded”? I’m serious. You’ve had your time at school, you can devote the same to me.

H: You feel threatened by me pursuing my interest: I don’t think it’s that unreasonable.
H: You don’t care about me as an individual.

Me: I’m not saying quit forever, I’m saying be a ****ing man and be there for me like you haven’t been this whole time! Are you really that shallow?
Me: I need you as an individual. Don’t reduce yourself to sperm donation and child support. I want a husband!

H: There won’t be another time and my schedule leaves three available days. You (enter) see or appreciate that.

Me: There is the rest of your life for school. I feel like you’re abandoning me when I need you the most!! Why aren’t I important to you?

H: You don’t care. You want control. Not compromise. How shallow.

Me: I’ll never need you like I do now and your “interests” are more important.
Me: You’ve already wasted a term going to class during the pregnancy; it is shallow not to take time off to be there!

H: There will be no grant if I drop out. I have to care. I won’t be blaming others for anything.

Me: Who cares about money? This is our life! What little we have left of it! You can go back in summer! Damn!

H: I’m easily disposable to you. You’ve proven that. I have to be secure through my own actions.

Me: Fine. Spend the entire pregnancy going to school. Don’t be there, don’t be available. You have become so selfish and shallow!!! Stay in school! I will do what I have to for that crucial support during that crucial time. I thought you were better than this.

H: No I can’t. The money won’t be there. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable here.

Me: I do. You’ve spent the entire pregnancy going to school and all you care about is MONEY, not being there for your family! Learned from the best, I guess.

H: You’re manipulative and unable to care about my intentions. I’m tired of being bullied and threatened.

Me: Whatever. I give up. You’re a horrible excuse for a husband and father.
Me: You’ll live to regret your selfishness one day.

H: Your only concern is financial support. I deserve an empathetic and sincere wife. Not a controlling, dictorial one.

Me: I don’t care about money! I give up! I don’t want to be close to you! It just hurts anymore!

H: You’ve made me feel bad enough about myself.

Me: Forget it. Don’t be there for me or your baby during the final months.
Me: You’re a great guy.

H: You have been stubborn and closed-minded. I need to be understood or at least deserving of a voice.

Me: My dad was never there because work and school were more important. I hate him for never thinking I was just as important to make time.
Me: I don’t want your daughter to hate you like I hate my dad.
Me: I’ll never be able to convince you of the great mistake you’re making when you’re too tired to even go for a hike, but you think you’ll be supportive when I need you the most.

H: You need to speak to your counselor. This is not reasonable and three days are exceptional. You won’t be driving past trauma with it’s a projection and I won’t play it.

Me: Whatever you want, H. I give up. Leave your family behind just like my dad did. He’s a great guy, too. Just ask his work buddies.
Me: It’s just one term, a very important and scary part of my life, but I don’t need you.
Me: I want to go through it alone.

H: You may abandon me, but I won’t abandon my daughter. I will seek joint custody and I have a separate email with all our texts and your comments on not wanting the burden.

Me: I don’t care. You’re a great guy who uses school as an excuse to abandon me when I’m begging you to be there when I need you the most. You’re the man I always dreamed of. A dime a dozen.

H: Four hours a week. Grow up. You know I wouldn’t be able to go back and you want that because you’re threatened by it. As I sit here and go blind because I failed to see only I even care about my health.

Me: Not four hours a week. That’s what you do now, and you STILL don’t have time to bond with me.
Me: You’re not thinking of what you’re doing to us.

H: You’re right, you don’t care. You’re selfish and want complete control because a man with needs is a threat.

Me: You’re not a threat. I have needs and I’m begging you on my ****ing hands and knees not to do this RIGHT NOW.
Me: You can go back in the summer! Why must you do this NOW??

H: You’re ignoring me. Typical. If four hours is unreasonable. Find out for yourself what little contribution I make. Since you enjoy reminding me.

Me: Not four hours! Then there’s homework and time away. I just wanted the last bit of our life without kids to be special. I need it; it’s not about control or money. Just wanted to be important.
Me: I just wanted you to be there for me because I’m scared and vulnerable. But if this is more important than the time we will never get back, then I understand.
Me: One term isn’t a big deal, though. Lots of people take breaks for IMPORTANT events in their lives. Just n ot you.
Me: You’re hurting and abandoning me in such a painful way I’ve never felt before. And I’m really wishing you would see that!!

H: Then show an interest in our future. Which isn’t going to be just us.

Me: I’m sitting here, crying at work, feeling so alone and unimportant. I’m hurting so badly and you don’t care!
Me: I’m done begging. The choice is yours. I can’t make you see how detrimental this is to me, but know that it is.

H: It’s not just you or me. It’s our future and I won’t neglect it.
H: You hate me. How hard could it be.

Me: I’m done. It’s your choice. Your choice reflects your character. And I used to think you were the best in the world, but I can see now that you’re the best to yourself.

H: Just responsible to myself and the future of my daughter.

Me: You’re deserting me at the worst possible time, because you can’t compromise and take a term off for your family.
Me: I guess I have my answer then.

H: You’re not thinking about our daughter. You need to compromise.

Me: It’s just one term, not forever. You are rationalizing and it doesn’t make sense. One freaking term! You can’t be there for just one term!

H: I’m sure I’m useful. Until replaced. You know your open marriage or openly seeking.

Me: I guess you leave me no choice when you refuse to try and meet mutually benefitting needs. Who else can I turn to? You? LoL

H: Lol. And you made me feel so good about myself.

Me: I thought you were a good person at one time. I was so naïve.
Me: I never wanted anyone else, just for you to help, see that I have needs. Needs only you can fill.
Me: I just wanted to be loved but I got lied to, cheated on and abandoned. And I’m STILL trying to make you see that I need you.
Me: And want you. But it doesn’t matter how much I hurt, you are cold and distant and uncaring. I can’t make you see how much pain I’m in, or what this ultimately means to you and I and our family.

H: Don’t worry. I was naïve too. I won’t be manipulated. I have a daughter to think of.

Me: I’m not a manipulative person. What the hell am I manipulating you for? Time together when I need you the most? I’m ASKING for it. Not manipulating.

H: Goodnight. I need to sleep before I’m asked to leave and stop bothering. What a paradox.

Me: Sundays I never ask you to leave anymore – just get breakfast lol – haven’t made any changes, have I? Good to see you’re recognizing my efforts.

H: I hope you continue your efforts. It would be hard to find someone without their own feelings and needs.

Me: I’m not saying I want someone without needs and feelings, I just wanted you to consider mine as well, but I know that’s not going to happen. It hurts.
Me: I really need you right now.

H: You’ve done nothing but threaten me. When I assert myself. You created that lack of trust and security. I needed understanding. A partner. My decision to support myself and my daughter stands.
H: Love you. Goodnight.

Me: I threatened you???

H: Lol. You just did.

Me: How?

H: Many times. It won’t work with others either. Nite.

Me: How did I threaten you now? By saying I need you? That’s a threat?
Me: I just wanted to be the most important thing in your life. Not be the only thing in your life.

H: You will do what you need to do or find who you need to. I’m talking throughout the relationship.

Me: You said I *just* threatened you. How?

H: I’m going to bed now.

Me: I just wanted you to care and love me and be there for me. Thanks. I’m scared.

H: Don’t be. Love you. Goodnight.

Me: Why would you say not to be? I am and I don’t feel like telling you how I feel makes a difference. That makes me feel unloved!

H: I understand the feeling of uncertainty. It can be scary. Maybe we can find a compromise. Talk to you tomorrow. Love you.

heartsbeating

Do I get a cookie? I didn't realize people had full conversations like this via text. Short n sweet otherwise it deserves a phone call.

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear you're feeling unsupported and frustrated with your hubs. Apologies, I do not know your backstory so my opinion is based purely on this post. I can see what you want to hear from him. And I see that you're both in slight defense modes. He sounds more calm and objective with some of his replies. I was pleasantly surprised to read his end sentence about compromise. You wrote some rotten things to him. I don't know the background, but I can tell you, my husband wouldn't stand to be spoken to in some of those ways.

I don't think you can 'brow beat' someone to your way of thinking just because it's what you want. Your communication sounded like you were throwing a tantrum.

Let go of the thoughts that he initially wanted to abort. His mindset may certainly have changed since then. Allow this.

My suggestion? Calm your mind, consider if you want to remain on the same team as him, then from a more balanced perspective discuss this. He sounds open to compromise. My 0.02 cents. But whadda I know?! Hang in there girl.
Posted via Mobile Device

YinPrincess

I can agree that I was harsh. I usually don't talk to him that way, but we've been fighting all day. It cost me sleep, and then I had to work an overnight shift, five months pregnant and in pain.
He works four days a week, and currently goes to school three days a week. We have no social life, or even just time to have meals together. He's always so tired, overworked and has little of anything left for me when I need him. I've been supportive, even doing his homework for him when he was too tired or didn't have time. I don't want him to quit forever, just take the next term off.

For next term, (nearing the end of my pregnancy and the only time we have remaining childfree), he wants to work four days a week, then attend classes (one on each day - two hours a class) which is EIGHT hours a week, not four like he keeps saying, (maybe he should take math instead?)

For what? He won't be getting a degree or certification, so I'm confused as to WHY he keeps saying it's for our daughter. He doesn't plan to continue school after she's born, so how in the world does this help? He is taking classes just because, and without any real goal in mind. It's FRUSTRATING!!!!

I'm hopeful for a compromise, but I know better. My husband says things like that to shut me up and end the convo.

I know I've been pushy. I just have this sense of urgency and panic - so much isn't getting done and I feel like he wasting time. I would feel differently if he actually decided to pursue a career or something, but he has zero intentions for this. Yet he keeps saying its for our future??

Obviously the drugs have done a lot of damage to his brain. I love him. He's just so difficult and set in his ways...
Posted via Mobile Device

Hicks

How could you possibly expect a good outcome from a conversation that starts "Me: What kind of man can’t give up one term of school, just one term for his family? How selfish!
Me: You will only get to experience it once, but school you can do as long as you’re alive. I can’t believe you’re so narrow-minded!'

YinPrincess

Hicks - the conversation didn't start there, it's just as far back as my cell holds the conversation. It's been all day. And I wasn't the only one who was nasty, either.

I'm willing to take the heat for my end, that's why I posted this exactly as it happened, and didn't edit out anything that I regret now.

I'm hurt that he has been so detached and uninterested in anything but his own endeavors. It has built up and caused a nasty react in me, but I am usually not like this. And I'm not going to blame on the hormones, either. He is self-involved to the point where I feel like he doesn't even know I exist anymore. I'm just sick of it.

He has pretty much neglected me since he found out I was pregnant, and I think his recent sobriety has a lot to do with it. I don't like who I am or what I feel and think about myself or him now. I want help for the both of us. I guess I didn't really feel like I effectively communicated how important this is for me... I feel left out that he would just make a decision like this without involving me. I'm upset that he seems to be deliberately filling up his schedule to avoid the parenting classes and whatnot. I don't know. I'm exhausted in my mind anymore. All I wanted was to be as important as his **** classes.

I think my problem too, is that I hold a lot in and end up blowing up here recently as 'deadline' approaches and he seems to care less about what happens to us. I don't want to set this example for my baby. I hold a lot resentment for all the unresolved hurt, and as a result I've become very angry and depressed. I don't feel important to him - I'm the last thing he cares for at the end of the day, and despite what it looks like, it's not because I'm usually like this. A lot gets swept under the rug, left unattended and unfinished.

Maybe I am crazy, but a healthy person does not chose a crazy one as their partner. We are both fueling the dynamic here. Neither of us are victims. I want him to see my concerns as VALID instead of always blowing me off.

The thing about the abortion - he was upset that I told his family I was pregnant, because it left abortion out as an option, (they are hardcore Christians, we are not). He never wanted to have kids, and when I told his family he was angry and told me something to the effect of, "well now we can't have an abortion or I'll be written out of the inheritance." Things like this, that he has said, have deeply hurt me and left me wondering what kind of person he really is. Do I accept now that he "wants" to be a father. Sure, his daughter already an excuse to do so much. If he really cared about providing for her he would work more hours at his job, or at least pursue a degree/career. I would support that entirely. It's all just a passive aggressive facade. I have a hard time finding a more healthy way to deal with it.

Posted via Mobile Device

heartsbeating

"You don’t want to treat me as an equal. So be it. You don’t care about me as an individual. You don’t care. You want control. Not compromise. How shallow. I’m easily disposable to you. You’ve proven that. I have to be secure through my own actions. Your only concern is financial support. I deserve an empathetic and sincere wife. Not a controlling, dictorial one. You’ve made me feel bad enough about myself."

To be honest, it seems a lot of what you're saying, he's actually reflecting back to you and feeling similarly - just in a slightly different way. He's stating that you don't care for him. He's said he's making plans because he feels that you view him as easily disposable.

Meanwhile, you're asking "Why don't you care for me? Why don't you place me as priority in your life?"

You BOTH sound hurt. You BOTH need to work on dealing with things, communication included, if you want to attempt staying together. I certainly don't see him as the bad guy based on this post though. I'm not sure I understand the whole 'studying now versus postponing' part - and forgive me but I'm not really sure it even matters. There's more going on than this. It doesn't sound like you respect his choices. If he was to give up those classes now, would it even realistically bring you what you're hoping for? And stomping your feet, putting him down, is not going to get you there. Whether tired or not, saying something like "I give up. You’re a horrible excuse for a husband and father. You’ll live to regret your selfishness one day." certainly deserves an apology in my eyes.

I feel harsh with what I'm saying to you. I don't mean to be harsh. You're wanting to improve communication, you're upset, I understand that. Just remember it goes both ways. There's two of you here that (from where I'm sitting), sound hurt and upset. Walls are being built.

__________________
"Victims; aren't we all" - The Crow

EleGirl

Sounds like your husband did not want this baby. How does he feel about having a baby now?

misticli

I am going to respond by fist stating I read through every cringe worthy part of those text messages.

I am going to be brutally honest, and you are not going to like it. Treating someone with so little respect, browbeating and mean comments is why a lot of men cheat on their women.

Who would want to come home to this? No its not okay to make these kinds of comments over and over again to force him into doing what you want. Please read over your whole conversation, can you not see that he is portrayed as being reasonable and you as being the a b***h. Even if you have a valid point you totally blow it out of the water by being disrespectful to him.

He is telling you that you are only thinking of yourself and he is trying to secure a future for you and your child. He says he is going to have 3 days off a week, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. That is an amazing amount of time for families these days when both parents have to work to support themselves. Not many fathers can take such a long period of time off, even for the birth of a child. You need to respect his decision on this.

Are you resentful because you are not working and have a lot of time on your hands? You really need to take a step back from this.

EleGirl

Darkhorse

There's a lot of hurt and blame in your words and passive/defensiveness in his.

Not a very good conversation. Nothing was really solved. No needs met. Y'all need to bring it down a bit and talk about how you feel and what you need...stop telling him how horrible he is...he'll only prove you right after time. Stop being mean. Although, pregnancy can turn any woman into a raging lunatic. I've been there.

Lydia

I will be completely honest. First I don't know your back story, so I'll say that right now.

Second. You are not going to get anywhere by guilting your husband to get your way. I thought most of what you said was either belittling, manipulative, or you are trying to guilt him into. Please remember when you are having these discussions with your H that words can never be truly undone, and he will remember things you have said - probably for the rest of his life.

To be brutally honest with you - I agreed with most everything your H was telling you. It sounds like all you are caring about is yourself and you don't care what you have to do or who you have to hurt to get your way through guilt and manipulation.

The first step is to cut all of that out. Make him see you as a respectful person who he can trust and respect... Not someone who is going to manipulate him and make him feel horrible for the decisions he's made with his life. He isn't going to see your side of the story if you are always insulting him.

I think you would have a lot more success in your marriage if you put these issues to the side and started concentrating on enjoying your time for a while. Something has to soften you up. I think your H does care about you, based on what he's told you, but it sounds like he's had just about enough. If you don't stop talking to him like that, I think your journey isn't going to end well.

I know you view his school as something just for him and his desires - but couldn't him getting a degree and better job benefit your entire family? More money? Less work hours needed? I've been pregnant so I know how scary it is, and how clingy you feel - especially towards the end. However, wouldn't it be better if he got his degree and could help more after your child is born?
I know exactly how you feel, my H works retail and during the holiday season only has 1 day off per week. I had our baby in early January so I had to go through the end alone. But be strong - either way, there really isn't any going back now. You either hold on to your family and solve the issues civilly or you push him further away and have to go through it totally alone.

Darkhorse

Never have these conversations through text. Most times, we don't know HOW it's being said. You can't gage their body language and it just turns into a mess.

Darkhorse

Wow.

Well, then his behaviour shouldn't surprise you if this is how you feel. Even if you just said this in anger, this will play in his head over and over again. People become what they think you think they are.

"I am not what I think I am and I am not what you think I am; I am what I think that you think I am." -CH Cooley

You are both going through so much. You are wanting things from him that he probably doesn't know if he can give. My husband was like a fish out of water throughout my whole pregnancy and even the birth lollll but he's an amazing father.

If my husband spoke to me that way... I'd probably pack a bag. Even 'worthless' beings deserve love.

pidge70

Try reading her other threads. Her H is no saint.
Posted via Mobile Device

EleGirl

Even if he is no saint, her talking to him in this manner does not do her any good.

It's the old well he did it, so now I will too? Nope, does not work.