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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 08:40 AM
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

Start working on yourself immediately. Work out, eat and drink healthy, get a new haircut/color, new clothes, and start hanging out with friends outside the home when possible. Time to start a new life and prepare to be single.

I'm surprised you gave him 6 months. I have a feeling you'll be filing for D within a month as he just plays his video game and ignores you.

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Start working on yourself immediately. Work out, eat and drink healthy, get a new haircut/color, new clothes, and start hanging out with friends outside the home when possible. Time to start a new life and prepare to be single.

I'm surprised you gave him 6 months. I have a feeling you'll be filing for D within a month as he just plays his video game and ignores you.
I began working on myself 18 months ago when I first started IC, thoush I originally started getting healthier in 2012, after some health issues. Through healthy diet and exercise I lost the last 20 lbs I had needed to get off, changed my hair, started getting my nails done and going for massage, really just started to focus on myself a lot more. Got a cleaning lady to come twice a month to free me up a little. He didn't really like it, in fact often says He thinks I'm trying to "get hot" so I can find someone better. Serious self esteem issues. But he doesn't seem to care enough to put up a fight over any of it. He is physically active, lean and fit. Our business keeps him physically taxed all day. Besides the regular beer drinking he eats well. In terms of basic physical traits he is very attractive to me.

Friends - we really just have mutual, married friends. I don't have girlfriends that are just mine, separate from him. I need to find some of these.

To be honest the six months was mostly for me. I need some time to meet with an attorney, figure out what's going to happen with the business, find a home and furnish it, apply for and get a job. Plus it's nearing Christmas and I need to give my kids one last happy, family one of those. Plus, I think MC needs some time - a couple of sessions likely won't cut it. We have been co-habiting like room mates for years now....6 months seems awfully short to me. Add to that a really poor real estate market that may make it tough to sell our property quickly.

Today my to do list includes getting MC contacts from my therapists office, booking that initial appointment, and booking an appointment with a lawyer.
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this. Some of things that you described are the things a passive aggressive person would do (the silent treatment & saying that they're going to return something but never do). A passive aggressive person is extremely difficult to deal with. And him constantly threatening divorce whenever you have a conflict is abusive.

It's so hard to imagine him running a successful business with all of the forgetting that he does. He comes across as an airhead.

You say that you love him, but love isn't enough to sustain a healthy marriage. You are carrying the household responsibilities. He knows that you're going to do it, so why would he bother putting forth the effort? He doesn't care and is lazy. Maybe that's why he says that he's "laid back". Not caring & being lazy isn't being "laid back".

You guys are not a match. Keep posting because it'll get worse before it gets better. There are people on this forum that can help you deal with some of the things that he's likely to pull.
Passive aggressive is certainly how I'd describe him.

Our business does well. His family worked hard to establish it and I think that helps. It's also worth noting his grandfather insisted on giving me the same amount of shares as H, and clearly stated he wanted that to happen because H didn't have the same experience, education, and background in business and office management that I do. His grandfather required that we were a package deal when we inherited, and H completely ageeed. I do all the office work, scheduling, handle finances, staffing, etc. He does all the manual work, equipment operations, etc. Which is definitely his strong-suit. I would say we are actually well suited in this way, as we are both able to utilize our strengths to make this work well.

We both earn our own salary - and they are completely equal. We have a joint bank account for all of the family/kid expenses and savings which we split right down the middle, and the rest of our income we keep to ourselves. He has been on board for all of this, so he's not unreasonable in some ways. He does work hard to cultivate an image that he's a very hard-working family man (I suppose he is?), with a happy marriage and a perfect life, so people tend to think we are just this happy, idyllic little family.

I sometimes resent that we are SO mismatched personality wise because in so many other ways we work well and make sense. We have made good moves purchasing properties, and are fortunate to be financially secure. In terms of the business we are almost always on the same page with both large decisions and small daily ones. If this marriage could work we would likely be very successful financially and career-wise. That likely won't be the case separately - he will have to find someone to run the office end of the business which I think will be difficult for him, and I'll have to head back to my old field, which has potential to easily support me, but likely won't afford the same types of opportunities I'd have if we could stay on the path we planned for.

Honestly, I think I'm still here because of all that more than any other reason. It's hard to give up the chance at giving our kids a comfortable, secure life. It's hard to imagine going back to a "regular job" after the rewarding feeling of building your own, successful business. It's hard to give up the freedom and flexibility to make your own hours. But something has to give. I deserve the chance to be valued, loved and respected by my partner. So does he. I deserve to have a connection with my husband that's more than just "we own a business, have kids, and live together".
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 06:53 PM
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

Dear Pygmalioneffect,


First let me say that I understand your frustration, sadness and anger over the situation.

Until I met Alison Armstrong's work I did not quite understand men. And that is despite the amount of research I have done to conceive EZcouple.com.

Your schedule seems unduly busy, but if you started to read the Queen's Code which is a novel she wrote I believe your perspective would shift.

Men do not solve their problem the way we women do. Your husband may be aware inside that he has issues but talking about them, especially in front of you, is not an option he will choose if he does not want to despise himself.

While reading you it seems to me that he is deeply challenged since you have had your children and what it entails. His fear of harming the ones he loves, including you, makes your life difficult to say the least. At this stage, during his video games, it might be the only time when he feels a man because he can be successful then. His feeling of inadequacy and inability to make you happy is killing him from the inside.

You might feel that I ignore your own pain in this. I hope you don't because I just want you to take some emotional distance in order to see the bigger picture. Then you will be in better position to decide for the next step.


Whatever you decide after you read that groundbreaking book, please know that being in a relationship in the long run is not easy. If you succeed to overcome this your couple will be so strong that it will weather anything else.

Here is an amazon link for your easy reference http://amzn.to/2fR3elj

I wish you the best, and please feel free to reach out to me via EZcouple.com, contact us form. I am not sure I can leave my email here and I am the one reading all the emails received.

Warm regards,

Anne
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 10:10 PM
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

Hi P
Has your husband ever been dx with adhd? The way you describe him losing things all the time is very typical. My husband has it. He loses various things all the time. Nothing like vehicles! Much of the time things are in the house, but still, it can get crazy.

Main difference is he will admit it, feels embarrassed, and we work as a team to try to prevent it. So if I hand him something that is supposed to go in his wallet I have him take it out, and he puts it in immediately and he doesn't feel threatened by my reminders. I only do that if I don't see him make the move on his own.

He got diagnosed with adhd as an adult but didn't go on medication until about two or three years ago. That has helped with some things.
I learned a lot reading on adult forums and books. He did too. There is way more to the condition than losing things, and not everyone has that issue but many do. To someone without adhd it seems crazy to lose things like wallets, keys, you name it, but learn about it, and you see it differently. My husband has worked hard to break some ingrained bad habits, and learned to find ways to deal with such a devastating issue for an adult to deal with. He's come a longggg way! Maybe get him tested and go from there. He may have taught himself not to care due to feeling deep shame.

I can't help with anything else. Just to offer you some (((hugs))).
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seasong View Post
Hi P
Has your husband ever been dx with adhd? The way you describe him losing things all the time is very typical. My husband has it. He loses various things all the time. Nothing like vehicles! Much of the time things are in the house, but still, it can get crazy.

Main difference is he will admit it, feels embarrassed, and we work as a team to try to prevent it. So if I hand him something that is supposed to go in his wallet I have him take it out, and he puts it in immediately and he doesn't feel threatened by my reminders. I only do that if I don't see him make the move on his own.

He got diagnosed with adhd as an adult but didn't go on medication until about two or three years ago. That has helped with some things.
I learned a lot reading on adult forums and books. He did too. There is way more to the condition than losing things, and not everyone has that issue but many do. To someone without adhd it seems crazy to lose things like wallets, keys, you name it, but learn about it, and you see it differently. My husband has worked hard to break some ingrained bad habits, and learned to find ways to deal with such a devastating issue for an adult to deal with. He's come a longggg way! Maybe get him tested and go from there. He may have taught himself not to care due to feeling deep shame.

I can't help with anything else. Just to offer you some (((hugs))).
Hi!

I've often thought he is ADHD. I've never said it to him though. He is so hyper critical about these things I just know it would end up him seeing me as "psychoanalyzing" him. Even if I say it nicely, respectfully, and let him know I care about him and want this to get better. He simply refuses to say he has any problem at all. This is why I think he also has a personality disorder.

I would give anything to get to a functional place like you and your husband. I'd have no problem at all helping him remember things. When I do that now he sees it as an attack and resents me for it. So I don't.

It's other things too. About 6 months ago we had a scary issue here at our home. We have a large second -story deck on one side, and he used to park his truck near the deck because it is close access to the lower entrance to the house. The deck has no access to the ground level, you have to come through the house. Well late at night one night suddenly someone was opening the sliding door from the outside second story deck. This thief had climbed up onto Hs truck, shimmied over the deck railing, and was coming in to presumably rob the place. We had regular arguments about the doors being locked up, but he goes out regularly to smoke, so it wasn't at that time. He, of course, at that time in the night (2 am) was right there in the living room playing video games, so he and this guy got into an altercation and he activated our home alarm system. Cops came, took the guy, he was charged, etc.

H was very shaken up. He installed extra locks on the sliding door and windows and stopped parking his truck near the deck. Well tonight when I got home I noticed his truck was parked there again. Came into the house, made lunches, bathed kids etc. Went to go to bed and noticed the sliding door was unlocked. I went to lock it and he said (while playing video games) "I'm going out there in a minute". I said "ok can you lock it up when you're done?" "Of course, I always do, why wouldn't i?" I responded "sorry I'm just nervous with the truck parked there". He rolls his eyes dramatically and says "I'll go move it if it's an issue". Yeah. It's a bit of an issue for me. But I just say "ok, as long as things are locked up I'll feel better". And then he was suddenly angrily accusing me of saying he doesn't protect us. I just said "I am surprised we are not on the same page here. I think we can mitigate risks like this by taking steps to prevent bad things happening. That's all. I'm not saying you can't protect us, just lets lock up to reduce the chance something bad will happen". Then he went off "what if the bad guy brings a ladder or his own truck? You know they can just smash the glass right? Bad things happen."

I just walked away and am now alone, in our bed, flabbergasted that this is my life, while he's out there laughing and chatting with strangers on his head set over some role playing game. Like I'm not even real.

I just am so angry with myself that I've let it get like this. It's a circle of pain and discomfort and sadness and I'm just running it forever, looking for a way out.

I booked our first mc session. He says he booked an IC session. But is there hope for him? I simply can't imagine a possible scenario where this gets better.

I went to my own IC session today. It was sad. And hard. I'm so tired.
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 01:41 AM
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

Bring up the ADHD in the MC session where you can be heard. Any decent therapist will at least drill down into the reason you think this might be the case and it will provide a forum for you to open up on these issues and be heard


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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Anne EZcouple View Post
Dear Pygmalioneffect,


First let me say that I understand your frustration, sadness and anger over the situation.

Until I met Alison Armstrong's work I did not quite understand men. And that is despite the amount of research I have done to conceive EZcouple.com.

Your schedule seems unduly busy, but if you started to read the Queen's Code which is a novel she wrote I believe your perspective would shift.

Men do not solve their problem the way we women do. Your husband may be aware inside that he has issues but talking about them, especially in front of you, is not an option he will choose if he does not want to despise himself.

While reading you it seems to me that he is deeply challenged since you have had your children and what it entails. His fear of harming the ones he loves, including you, makes your life difficult to say the least. At this stage, during his video games, it might be the only time when he feels a man because he can be successful then. His feeling of inadequacy and inability to make you happy is killing him from the inside.

You might feel that I ignore your own pain in this. I hope you don't because I just want you to take some emotional distance in order to see the bigger picture. Then you will be in better position to decide for the next step.


Whatever you decide after you read that groundbreaking book, please know that being in a relationship in the long run is not easy. If you succeed to overcome this your couple will be so strong that it will weather anything else.

Here is an amazon link for your easy reference http://amzn.to/2fR3elj

I wish you the best, and please feel free to reach out to me via EZcouple.com, contact us form. I am not sure I can leave my email here and I am the one reading all the emails received.

Warm regards,

Anne
Thank you Anne! I do know from my own therapy that I struggle to understand him and his motivations, which makes it hard for me to empathize with his behaviour and choices.

I will certainly check out the site and the book you mention.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post
Bring up the ADHD in the MC session where you can be heard. Any decent therapist will at least drill down into the reason you think this might be the case and it will provide a forum for you to open up on these issues and be heard


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is definitely a tactic I will employ. This is the main reason I insist on MC - a different forum than we've ever been in to discuss things. Hopefully one that will allow us to be completely open eventually.

Thank you
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 12:14 AM
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

At the end of the day, [after you've given counseling a decent chance]; you have to feel safe and sane in your home. If there's no improvement; you have to make some difficult choices.

The incident with the truck being parked against the deck? You can't go on forever with someone who is oblivious to your feelings and need to be secure.


No matter what his own private demons are.

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 01:51 AM
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

Yes, adults with adhd have had to learn ways to cope on their own if never having early intervention so they compensate with some bad habits.

This is a second marriage for both of us. I made it clear that IC and MC would be necessary to me if issues cropped up. He started IC before we got married but she was a dud. The first med didn't agree with him either. So after married we found a better therapist for him. We only had about 6-8 sessions of MC but it helped over all.

My oldest, 25 now, has it as well so I'd been through therapy with him starting young. He got dx at age 7-8 and I learned a lot when he was a teen how not to demean him. They have similarities and differences of course.

My husband says I calm him down. I was born and bred a type A but having my son kind of helped me to reexamine myself. Would my head really explode if the pots and pans weren't aligned in the cabinet? Did a wrinkle in the middle of the made bed matter that much? I wanted him to have self esteem. Not do everything myself or everything over. I'm saying that just in case you see it in your kids.

My doctor told my to throw away my watch when my daughter didn't breast feed according to my plan. Little things, but potentially big things.

If my husband hadn't shown me such a willingness to do therapy ( he was also moving into a house with a tween and a teen, and I'm progressively disabled), and a genuine sense of teamwork, no arrogance, and just a little bit of a need to be right at times, i couldn't have done it.

You said things were good at first. And he does have good qualities. I wonder if any other gamers might be able to help, or former gamers. I'm sure there are some on these boards.
Mine will get hyper focused on tasks, especially fixing computers, but not to where I mind. I really feel for you.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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It's been a tough couple of weeks. I've been to IC each Thursday. Last week we had our first MC session. He sat there. He was silent, apart from basic yes and no answers. I brought up our major communication issues. She asked him what he thought of that. He just looked down at his lap. This is just one example. The whole hour. No words. No contribution. So I talked. He was quiet. Then we went home and he never said anything more about it.

He speaks to me only out of necessity. Something with the kids, or our extended families, or work. Otherwise, no conversation at all. When he does speak to me it is monotonous and robotic. Completely void of feeling.

I think he must hate me. He looks at me Like I'm ruining his life. How do I continue like this? He's so checked out. He stays up all night, sleeps until noon, is completely emotionally disconnected from us. Our only shared interaction as a family is during dinner. He's at work from noon till dinner time, comes home, We eat together, he goes back to work, comes home again after kids (and often me) are in bed, games all night, comes to bed an hour or so before I get up at 5:45, sleeps till noon. Why won't he just leave? He obviously can't stand to even be near me. He can't be happy. How do I make this livable? In the old days I'd talk to him, initiate intimacy, find a way for us to connect physically, so we could connect emotionally. But I'm so tired. And I don't want to physically connect with someone who feels how he so clearly does about me.

I've spoken to a lawyer. He's recommended I don't leave - if I do it looks bad on me, like I'm ok with leaving my kids. Obviously I can't just take them. He thinks I should hold out for him to go, which will also apparently bode better for me with the business as well.

It's torture to live like this.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

I just posted this on another thread, but thought I should put it here also - it very much outlines what I'm feeling now.

Telling him what I need is a major hurdle because we have a massive fundamental communication barrier. When I say "I need...." or "I feel...." he automatically gets defensive and can't handle any input from me at all. He claims I'm always mad, or some other feeling than I SAY I'm feeling. In every discussion we've had over the past year (I have them all recorded), I tell him how I'm feeling, and he says "no - you're lying. you feel (xyz)" instead. When I say "you think I'm mad, but I do not FEEL mad, why do you think that is? What am I doing that makes you think this?" he says "your body language". I've worked hard to employ communication strategies. Sometimes I'm not 100% efficient at it yet. But his reading my body language is a constant problem. Just yesterday I was standing in our master walk in closet, trying to decide on a plan for organizing something. He was there fixing the light switch. He read me standing there in the closet looking around as me impatiently waiting for him to get out of my way, so he got frustrated with me. I wasn't even thinking anything about him or regarding him at all. What was going through my head had nothing to do with him. I didn't say any words (normal, rational people say "excuse me please" if someone is in their way, right?). I just stood vertically looking around the room, one hand in my pocket and one hand hanging at my side. I've become hyper-sensitive of how my body looks in these scenarios as a way to hopefully dispel any false assumptions by him, so I pay a lot of attention.

Yesterday he told me he didn't want to live in misery anymore. I said I didn't either. But, I've been in therapy for two years, read dozens of marriage and communication books, employed tons of strategies for making this better - but it isn't working because I'm doing that all alone. It's like I'm playing on this football team but I'm the only one who knows the play or the strategy. You can't win with only one team mate knowing the play. He has shown no interest in trying any of these things, as to him it's simple: I change how I talk, feel, and act. He says I'm the cause of every single issue, since he's so laid back nothing bothers him, so it must be me making all these problems up. It just feels like such a joke. He sincerely believes none of his behavior impacts me or how I feel at all. Last night I told him that in order for me to be willing to continue I need him to STOP telling me my feelings. It's so disrespectful to have your spouse say "no - you don't feel what you say you feel. You're lying. You feel this instead." Like I don't have the mental capacity to know whats happening in my own head. I NEED that to stop. His response? "Sorry, I can't do that until you stop acting the way you act - your body language says you're mad, so whatever you verbally say doesn't count". But his history of reading my body language is regularly inaccurate, so I'm upset that he's willing to base the entire fundamental of all of our marriage issues on an assumption that I feel a certain way when I'm TELLING him that's not what I feel....ugh. It's so tiring to even think about all of this. For so many years he'd say those things to me, I actually started to believe I must be unstable. I've been assessed for bi-polar and personality disorders because he had me questioning my own sanity. There is no other person in my life who reads my body language and gets it so wrong.

I told him last night. We go to marriage counselling ASAP or after the New Year we need to work up a separation agreement. My initial plan was to give him until June - but it's just enabling him to push the counselling off. I desperately need him to hear me in a neutral zone with an impartial third party present.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

I also need to note here - he stated multiple times last night that he was still so angry over the issue with the phone cord and how I accused him of taking the second one. He is so mad that I would talk to him the way I did and accuse him of taking it. He said "I will NEVER be ok with being treated that way". So he has clearly hung onto this and let it fester. He's also telling me that the reason he is staying up all night and sleeping during the day and gaming and ignoring me is because of the cord issue - that I hurt him so badly with this that he can't bear to look at me or be near me. He said "so you did this all to yourself". I responded by telling him I only wanted to be respected - that meant my belongings too, and that when I discussed the cord with him I was only trying to find out where it was and let him know it meant a lot to me if he could respect my things. In that discussion I was trying to tell him this was important to me, so going forward please show me more respect. But he just can't stay on the communication path. As soon as I said that he said "SHOW ME MORE RESPECT AND I'LL SHOW YOU MORE!". On one hand I wish I had never said a word about the stupid cord. But my therapist is saying all the time that I need to communicate my needs to him, or he'll have no idea what I need from him and I'll never get any of what I need (wow...bad sentence).

Our discussions are so exhausting because he goes off on these tangents. I'm trying so hard to employ communication techniques to stay on course, but we need help.
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 01:10 PM
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Re: At a loss, need to vent....

His alleged hangup with the cord is nothing more than classic gaslighting. Maybe you should turn the tables on him and tell him that this is not really how he feels about it!

Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you.

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-c...ionships-fiff/
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