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Unconditional Love or term limits?

10K views 96 replies 31 participants last post by  MJJEAN 
#1 ·
Unconditional love,

if it weren’t for those two words together, the Hallmark Channel would have nothing to show, for that matter Hallmark Cards would be virtual empty less the section on Get well, don’t die and Blessing's on missing your period.

On the surface one would think that it came out of the Renaissance period or more to the point a biblical passage but neither is true as best as i understand it in research, it was the creation of Psychoanalyst Erich Fromm who was actually noting self-love as the basis for that concept, that we should have unconditional love for oneself, not for others, but it was adopted as such during the 60’s and “Free Love” arena…from there it spread into cards, books, movies (aka “love story”) and the internet…..i am not suggesting there is an expiration date for love, but at the same time when you read those words from posters saying regardless of what their spouse did i love them unconditionally, i just want to throw up….maybe i am a cynic (no question about that) maybe i am not the romantic type (debatable), but mostly i am a rationalist, and as such i would question how far does unconditional love go, i would suggest there is a point of demarcation, one affair?, a dozen affairs? murder? Jay walking?
But as some point unconditional love becomes blind faith in stupidity, and someone is left holding the bag and its usually the person that has more vested in the relationship than the other.

Now, let me place this caveat or more apply put disclaimer.

i am excluding parents, children, grand children, pets, and Deities from the above concept, for sake of argument not necessarily because i believe that either. Let’s focus on spouse or significant other.
 
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#3 ·
I feel loved unconditionally by my husband. Does that count?
 
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#4 ·
Unconditional love is a core of Buddhism... in a nutshell we want others to be happy without placing conditional love against it. It's a tough path that requires the ultimate openness of courage and acceptance, often the larger challenge of self-acceptance in understanding the attachment of love, which is rarely without self-interest.

What isn't unconditional is the path... if one doesn't allow the expectation that love is forever, even if some are successful, and accepts that message when it is no longer there, then before it devolves into a hate-strewn and prolonged path that another path is required after all efforts are given.

Of course this is not without pain and disappointment, we are human... but to leave without hate is so important to self and self healing from the loss of unconditional effort. We often choose to resist the clear path... leave that which repeatedly hurts us, and we suffer for it... that level of hurt is always an individual measure, no one can dictate that for another and often as we have seen it tried with disappointing results.

I have left relationships hurt, but accepting and also bitter, with hate... I would rather leave loving as best I can than any other way.
 
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#7 ·
Why should love of a spouse be less permanent and less violable than love for a child?
depending on who you ask it is not. I woudl suggest to you that there are people are as willing to throw away a child as they would a spouse, consider for a moment that tragic story that posted on here in the past week where the mother kills her children to get back at her husband.
 
#9 ·
Jid,

i believe that you believe that, but the problem with believing that concept to real would be required to test it.
I don't know, Xenote. I think in some ways it is tested regularly. ;)
 
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#10 ·
Personally, I don't believe in "unconditional love". All love is conditioned. I also think love is a choice, not something that "just happens". Call me old-fashioned.

I don't love people who abuse me or treat me terribly. And anyone who does so has no claim to my love or affection. Parents, siblings, kids. None of them. Similarly I have no claim to another's love or affection, and I certainly have no right to expect it if I treat someone terribly or abuse them. Whether they're my family or not.
 
#12 ·
I think it's foolish to imagine that unconditional romantic love is actually even possible in a healthy and sustainable way. Unconditional love means that no matter how that person behaves or treats you, you will continue to love them just the same. So, if your spouse cheats on you, hits you, blows every cent of your joint retirement account on a weekend bender in Vegas, molests a child or tries to kill you - unconditional love would dictate that you still love them in the same way as you did prior to their bad acts. I'm not sure it's really possible, and certainly wouldn't be considered at all healthy. Can you really still have warm fuzzy, wanna jump your bones, snuggly, giddy, in love-ness for a partner who just....oh, let's say, shot you three times in an attempt to cash in on your life insurance policy so they could run off with their lover? Now, for the most part, relationships aren't dealing with such extreme examples of bad behavior. But there are myriad examples of bad behavior of the much more mundane variety that make it equally difficult to maintain romantic love.

I still care about my ex-husband to a certain extent. I wish him well, hope he is happy, and would be sad if anything bad befell him. I care for him, in a platonic way that leads me to not hate him or wish him dead - much like the mailman who's name I can never remember or the clerk at my local supermarket. But we're divorced because finding out he was a serial cheater did, in fact, destroy my romantic love for him. Because, as much as I really did love him, romantic love isn't really unconditional. If it were, then cheating wouldn't matter, sexless marriages wouldn't matter, abuse wouldn't matter. None of those things would negatively impact romantic feeling for the offending partner. And, yet, I think most would agree that remaining with a partner who treats you deplorably is neither healthy nor even particularly loving or lovable. That sort of boundary-less existence is more in the realm of extreme co-dependence, rather than healthy romantic love.
 
#66 ·
I agree with what you say here and you've also raised a distinguishing point. There is a difference between love and romantic love. Now can you love a spouse or significant other unconditionally? I believe you could love them unconditionally, even if the marriage failed, but you couldn't love them unconditionally in a romantic love kind of way.

I think people often toss both terms around interchangeably and they are not the same thing. If my wife were to run off with another man and leave me, obviously I could no longer love her romantically and would have to choose not to love her in that way for if I did not do that, it would be extremely harmful to me. I could choose to always love her and care about her well being but that is not the same kind of love. I think we as human beings should have that kind of love for each other. In fact, most religious texts require us to do that. That is definitely not the same thing as romantic love though.

I do not think that unconditional romantic love is possible. There are always conditions or boundaries for that kind of love to exist and if they are violated, then so is the romantic love.
 
#17 ·
#18 ·
'Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.'

Romans 8:35-39
 
#19 ·
'Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.'

Romans 8:35-39
Thank you, far. That is such a beautiful passage. And I definitely believe it describes my husband's love and commitment to me. I think some humans can love like God loves.
 
#25 ·
it was the creation of Psychoanalyst Erich Fromm who was actually noting self-love as the basis for that concept, that we should have unconditional love for oneself, not for others...
This is interesting ...I'd suggest unconditional love for self could include forgiveness, self-respect and compassion. One could develop this and simultaneously recognize when a dynamic (or spouse) isn't healthy or sustainable.
 
#26 ·
This is interesting ...I'd suggest unconditional love for self could include forgiveness, self-respect and compassion. One could develop this and simultaneously recognize when a dynamic (or spouse) isn't healthy or sustainable.
I think that that is a very true statement. Your entire post for that matter. I think this is the critical step that some of us don't arrive at until it is too late. As EB said in his post "that to enter marriage without a learned acceptance is also immature". Is the inability to recognize a situation in unhealthy part of being immature?
I know for myself, much of my pain came from this very scenario. I was very immature (not that I think I am not now) emotionally.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I said it before - Unconditional love is a giant sign that says abuse me. I agree with your caveat though, religion for me, and I can understand Kids. Though if you kid is a bad seed and kills someone not sure if that holds true.

I believe in love, on the condition of respect and dignity. This is not to be seen as my love is a reward, it just means that if you treat me without respect or dignity I am not going to able to stay in love with you. My contempt for what you have done to me will kill my love. I would also separate myself from you because I would probably still love you for a while at least and I wouldn't want to hurt or treat someone I love badly as I know I would when I was dealing with my pain.
 
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#34 ·
Here is another question, do you want or expect your spouse to love you unconditionally?

I for one would not. I like that I have to earn her love. It feels like more of an accomplishment.
 
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#35 ·
I did not expect it. I just got it. An undeserved gift.
 
#38 ·
AP, do you feel loved unconditionally?

Do you feel your husband is not working on the marriage, which means to you that he does not love you?

As a consequence, do you feel that your love for him is fading away?

Then, is it the reason that unconditional love is, for you, impossible or unrealistic?
 
#43 ·
I don't believe in unconditional love.

The deepest love I ever experienced was from my grandmother.

Parental love is laughable to me; based on my experience.


God's love is highly conditional. Reference material: most of the Old Testament. Or in the New Testament: believe in Jesus, or you're not saved. If you believe in Jesus; don't commit the "unforgivable sin" [Mark 3:28-30]


All love has conditions; as it should. Love is earned. People love others because that person gratifies them on some level. That's what human's are.
 
#44 ·
I hate to like this but it's true. I wish it weren't. I wish I were eternally and unconditionally loving, but I'm not. I wish other people were, but so far I haven't met anyone who is, except maybe my husband, and even then his expression of love isn't always 100% perfectly what I dream it would be. Even God's love has conditions, though it tends to exasperate Christians when I point this out. People need things. Ergo, people are selfish... unless of course the person chooses never to express those needs and always, always put themselves last. Such extreme kindness is admirable, but stupid, and possibly pathological.
.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Being intentionally vague here to protect the identity of a friend who grew up with me.

A lady I knew well in childhood and adolescence was a woman of faith and believed in unconditional love and til death do you part with all of her being right up until she found out her husband had been sexually abusing their daughter for years and had had sex with a few of their daughters teenage friends. Turns out, love is conditional after all.

We all like to imagine unconditional love, but those imaginings rarely include the truly horrific and yet horrific happens to people the world over all day every day. Unconditional love would literally mean loving someone no matter the atrocity they commit.
 
#47 ·
One thing I can't understand.. is when people say they love someone , they have forgiven them.. but want nothing to do with them... to me. I would rather have someone hate me if they want nothing to do with me.. that sounds more HONEST over saying nice things when their heart is far from you & they never want to see you again...

Forgiving another so we're not tormenting ourselves, the pain replaying on our minds, having that power over us.. so we can move on - YES ... we need to do this to be free!!... but calling it LOVE seems terribly disingenuous to me... I wouldn't want that sort of love... what good it is ??

This is something I can not reconcile in my head.. I don't love everyone.. if You treat me like a dog, put me down, belittle me... I don't care who you are ... I won't like you....let alone love you..

I spoke about this in my Unconditional love thread.. and I'm with @notmyrealname4 ...it doesn't exist in the Bible either ...but true.. people have different interpretations of these things..

I think there is some division on whether LOVE is a Feeling vs. a Choice. I feel it is both. Either one requires some ACTION to demonstrate.

In the down times (when we are hurt, wounded) we have to make it a conscious CHOICE to love - despite how we feel -this , along with giving actions , should lead to those "reconnecting emotions" - if reconciliation happens with the other.......in the good times, the feelings just flow like water. Actions come easy, they are a joy to give, even a compulsion to please the other.

I think I have uncovered my aversion to this unconditional love thing .......

It is always referred to as a "CHOICE". For me, this is very similar to the rules of "Forgiveness" -which is always more about the mental "peace" of the giver over any REAL feelings towards the recipient. And personally, I like having FEELINGS associated with Love- when somebody loves me, or I Love someone. When I love deeply, I feel deeply -even if is anger at the time, I feel SOMETHING, some wild emotion. And have to work to overcome it -YES -with this person I love. I feel a connection there, an admiration, an affection, a trust, security, an inviting feeling from this person , an acceptance, or I want to beat the living daylights out of them cause I am hurt, but something!

....Then we have these cases..... I have talked to some people who stay married just for the Vows, the commitment, they have lost all desire for their spouse -been this way for years, they speak about this "choice" to stay... I find it rather cold. In fact, what they have done is become "NUMB" somehow. Even depressed. They wanted the feelings to return, they had faith they would- because they are honoring those vows. Even though they have chosen to remain -living on a "choice" , for some the feelings never get re-captured. How sad is this. So they may call it "unconditional" .....but still , for some, it is devoid of "feeling".

I wouldn't want this kind of love. Give me anger, give me madness, give me passion but when it is all reduced to a "Choice" - without feelings -- Seems hollow to me.

I liked this article...

What Is Love?
 
#48 ·
When you forgive someone, you end the cycle of your own bad feelings about what they did and how that hurt. Essentially, it is ending the hurt/anger/hate pattern when that person is present or comes to mind.

My oldest sister is someone I cut off from my life a few years ago. I could never hate her and since she will always be my sister I will always feel love toward her. But I want nothing to do with her, don't want to interact with her, don't want to converse with her, or even be in the same room with her. For a long time I became extremely agitated and hyper sensitive when ever I had to be around her. Everything she said or did would be something I noticed and something I would later analyze as more fodder for intense dislike. But recently I've begun to let it go. When forced to be around her I did not become hyper sensitive and hyper aware of her or how she acted. I didn't like how I felt and what it did to me. By forgiving her, I've been able to remain truer to who I am when around her rather than purely reactionary, sullen, and other negative feelings and actions. I still want nothing to do with her, but by forgiving her I have let go of the reaction that I find negative and no longer necessary.

You've talked about problems you had growing up due to your mother's behavior. Have your forgiven her? How do you feel about her? How do you feel about her behavior and how it hurt you? Have you let it go or does it still hurt or anger you?
 
#51 ·
I love my W. Do I love her unconditionally, no. Do I believe she loves me unconditionally, no. IDK, unconditional just makes it some sort of Hollywood fairytale which is probably where it should remain. If you think you have unconditional love for your SO, you might have some crossed up wiring, or maybe more along the lines of a stalker :grin2:
 
#53 ·
I thought about this a lot after my divorce. When I was married, I imagined that I loved her unconditionally. But afterwards I realized that I wasn't happy in the marriage. The unhappiness stemmed from certain conditions that were not being met. Therefore I did NOT love her unconditionally, I in fact had conditions attached to my love. My love was conditional. I think everyone's is, at least for a spouse. After all we don't just love for no reason. We give love to another because they enhance our lives, the condition being enhancement of our lives.
 
#54 ·
According to the "What is love", link, we find love for others partially in looking for the good in them. We grow in mature love by doing things for them.

I think I have that figured out correctly. I am a little confused and have several thoughts.

When does that looking for good supersede the wisdom of getting some return for the investment? In other words, I think looking too hard for the good in others will cause us to stay in a relationship that has been due for termination for a long time. I think we can easily fall into deep denial. At what point do we look for the object of our affections to love us through actions, in return. How much love in action is enough?

On the other hand, how much love in action is obsession?

I suppose the last question is based upon the amount of love in action we receive in return combined with the opinion of the object of our affection and their level of desire to look for the good in the giver?

It's complicated and confusing. I really liked that link. Thank you SA.
 
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#57 ·
So a question to all those expressing a belief in unconditional love -

What if you found out the target of your unconditional love was cheating on you, abusing your children or otherwise violating your trust and that of others you love?
I believe if you honestly answer the question you would see that even your "unconditional love" in fact does have conditions. It is only given as long as some condition is met. They may in fact be extreme conditions, but they are conditions all the same.
 
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