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No respect for husband that earns less

37K views 727 replies 53 participants last post by  sokillme 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Gosh, that must be hard. She sounds so conflicted, and disillusioned. :(
 
#3 ·
She's driven far more by someone else's money, extravagance, her very own self-importance and what should preeminently be done for her ~ much rather than mutual or even Godly love!

I'd say that in this Holy season of Christmas, she's the one that needs "to be visited by the three ghosts!"
 
#4 ·
That is what she is attracted to, arb. Would you tell a man who fell in love with a beautiful woman who later became fat, a smoker, stopped personal hygiene, etc., that he should focus on godly love? Would that work?
 
#5 ·
I hate that I'm not confident enough in myself to have children because I don't think I can be the financial provider and a mother. And I hate that I would never look at my husband the same way if he was a stay-at-home dad.

I've never believed that women should work outside the home; and also be mothers and housekeepers. So, I never had kids. For a few different reasons, but that was one of them. I wasn't going to take on two full time jobs for 18-25 years.


OTOH, if I'd had the good fortune to have a well paying job; I would have had no problem with my husband being a stay-at-home father.


Machiavelli got banned due to his participation in tribute-thread-gate, IIRC??
 
#7 · (Edited)
In which case, she could be visited by say, "the Ghost's of Fatness Past," of "Smoking Present," and of "Personal Hygiene Future!"

Let's just say that they'd have an absolutely great time playing havoc with her head!
 
#9 · (Edited)
Wouldn't the ghosts be visiting the husband, arb? He would be the one you would be admonishing, no? The one who is dissatisfied?
I'm confused! I thought that she was the one who needed admonishing!

More so than him, anyway!

I mean, can he really be held responsible and accountable for who it is that he physically attracts?
 
#12 ·
"What I hate most of all is that this is not what my husband wants either. He never imagined that he would spend all of his savings to follow his dreams to come out on the other end making a quarter of his prior salary."

It looks like the husband didn't do his homework before embarking on his new career. It would have been easy to determine the salary range for the new career.

The woman needs to determine what she truly values before making any decisions.
 
#13 ·
How much of this is not truly understanding the pressure to be the breadwinner? When you are on the other side of it you get to enjoy the perks without worrying about if/when it could come to an end. I have no issues being the breadwinner, I take pride in being able to provide for my family. Do I think my W truly understands the pressure that goes along with it, no.

It does bring up an interesting point though in terms of what women find attractive when they find men becoming "less manly"
 
#16 ·
How much of this is not truly understanding the pressure to be the breadwinner? When you are on the other side of it you get to enjoy the perks without worrying about if/when it could come to an end. I have no issues being the breadwinner, I take pride in being able to provide for my family. Do I think my W truly understands the pressure that goes along with it, no.

It does bring up an interesting point though in terms of what women find attractive when they find men becoming "less manly"
My husband feels as you- strongly ....this is his Role...he would not feel like a man if he couldn't provide for us...I can take on jobs -if I want ...but ultimately his feelings are: that I don't have to work....he wants me to have a choice.

I do believe I get the pressure he is under though.. I know what he has to go through just to get out of our driveway in the winter (he's wrecked the plow before).... or hours/days working on a vehicle ... what he has to put up with his boss, working in the sleet , rain & snow, digging holes in zero temperatures to Jack up a Train.. not so much fun......

Especially when he's dealing with anything stressful going on at work .... I make darn sure coming home is a place of refuge... I would hurt the kids if they kept him from sleeping, for instance...I become a protective Bear.. it is his Job that has sustained us, given us a good life... Dad comes 1st !@#

I would not want to be in his shoes...I doubt I would handle it as carefree as he does ....I validate him often for his role..
 
#14 · (Edited)
She says
"Now herein lies my problem — I became the breadwinner in an extreme way. I committed to supporting us for two years, but we're going on four now, and it will likely be five. Our income divide is so extreme that I pay for 90 percent of our living expenses. What I've found is I can't live this girl-power lifestyle that I believe in."
But she doesn't go into what either makes.. I don't know... I am betting this man probably makes MORE than some men who support a family do, with even a SAHM and a couple kids... her career has skyrocketed (something else she said- in a male dominated field -lots of other men she is rubbing up against)... then adds her father was wealthy & materialistic , she was RAISED this way...

I see her complaining as she deserves a certain lifestyle.. not that her family couldn't live on what He earned = poverty wages...if she decided she REALLY wanted to be a mother and stay at home... she mentioned it may be 5 yrs that she earns more..... over him..

I don't personally think this is much of a sacrifice for remaining with a good man... I don't know... she sounds spoiled.. and just is attracted to High Powerd men , a wealthy lifestyle.. she wants it ALL..

I very much look up to men who believe in supporting their family...but sometimes you makes sacrifices if you want to be a Mother.. I would bet she could still do this.. she just isn't happy with the lower class lifestyle of a man who earns less than her..

I guess this is no different than what @jld brings up.. some people loose attraction when someone gains too much weight .. (people are labeled as shallow all the time).. this is just another example.. this is also Shallow ...

One is focused on Pleasure/ desire / excitement...
The other is focused on Power/ wealth / materialism ...
 
#70 ·
She says But she doesn't go into what either makes.. I don't know... I am betting this man probably makes MORE than some men who support a family do, with even a SAHM and a couple kids... her career has skyrocketed (something else she said- in a male dominated field -lots of other men she is rubbing up against)... then adds her father was wealthy & materialistic , she was RAISED this way...

I see her complaining as she deserves a certain lifestyle.. not that her family couldn't live on what He earned = poverty wages...if she decided she REALLY wanted to be a mother and stay at home... she mentioned it may be 5 yrs that she earns more..... over him..

I don't personally think this is much of a sacrifice for remaining with a good man... I don't know... she sounds spoiled.. and just is attracted to High Powerd men , a wealthy lifestyle.. she wants it ALL..

I very much look up to men who believe in supporting their family...but sometimes you makes sacrifices if you want to be a Mother.. I would bet she could still do this.. she just isn't happy with the lower class lifestyle of a man who earns less than her..

I guess this is no different than what @jld brings up.. some people loose attraction when someone gains too much weight .. (people are labeled as shallow all the time).. this is just another example.. this is also Shallow ...

One is focused on Pleasure/ desire / excitement...
The other is focused on Power/ wealth / materialism ...
You are the kind of woman a man should look to marry because you get it.
 
#15 ·
He is clearly not doing "everything in his power to make more of a financial contribution," or he would return to his previous, lucrative career. Husband makes the selfish choice every day to continue on the path that provides him with self-actualization but does not provide her with financial security. His needs are more important to him that hers.

She is a hypocrite. She thinks of herself as an empowered modern woman, but still wants a daddy figure to take care of her. She selfishly demands all options be on the table for her despite the fact that this requires him to give up his dream job. Her needs are more important to her than his.

This is the inevitable outcome of a sense of entitlement. On both parts. Why is he entitled to a "dream job" and why is she entitled to "pull back at work?" Lack of generosity, sacrifice and compromise dooms many marriages to failure. This may be one of them.
 
#17 ·
notice she 'hates herself for feeling this way'.

why is that? because she knows it smacks of materialism. And she professes to detest the materialism that her father exhibited.
Although it is not stated explicitly, it is implicit that they have more than enough money to
live well and even have children. I doubt that his making much less than her is a matter of survival.

She cannot help feeling this way. No, we can't really change our feelings easily and she is entitled to her feelings.
but I doubt in her marriage vows she included "........for richer or for richer.........."
 
#58 ·
Her angst is caused not only by her realizing that she's going to be seen as materialistic but also possibly having an internal philosophical struggle. She probably has bought into the feminist lie that women can think like men and not care how well their man is doing career wise.

I can't remember where I've read them, but studies have been shown that as soon as a woman is making even a little bit more than her man, she starts to lose some respect and that his chances of being played out increases dramatically. Makes me think of all the SAHDs that are betrayed by their wives.
 
#18 ·
This women has issues with her parents.

"I hate my sexist, wealthy, materialistic father and my step mother who believes women should not work" etc

Very interesting, she's attracted to men with power and money, yet hates her father.

She's got internal struggle, she hates men with money, now that her husband earns less, she feels some power and will now trample husband's happiness because it's easy, he will not challenge her like her father, so now she's bored.

Also she mentioned that she works in a male dominated industry, I'm sure she reached the glass ceiling by working harder than her male counterparts, then getting the praise and attention from the powerful males bosses at the top, the attention she didn't get from Dad growing up.

So this lady has Daddy issues and needs counseling.


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#20 ·
From the article:

"I hate my mother-in-law, who thinks women shouldn't have to work."

Not sure why she hates her mil for this. Maybe because she secretly agrees with her?

I mostly disagree with your analysis. I do agree she is conflicted.

She did not realize she would be so successful. And she obviously needs a man she feels is superior to her in order to feel attracted to him. I do not think there is anything unusual about that at all.

I feel sorry for her. She is really between a rock and a hard place. :(
 
#19 ·
Didn't read the article but you folks did a good job of summarizing it.

This sounds EXACTLY like the spouse of one of our downtrodden BS here on TAM, doesn't it? Though from his perspective, she's changed due to her high powered job and won't give him the time of day. And he keeps hoping she'll change back some day.

I don't want to point to someone else's thread though


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#32 ·
I think for the marriage to work, she will have to find something in him she can respect, can genuinely admire.

He obviously has a lot to do with that.
 
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#37 ·
If my wife wanted me to be powerful in order to respect me, the last thing I would want to do is try to earn it.

Deejo once said that trying to earn a woman's love and respect is a fools errand, and he was 100% correct.

Why?

Because if it takes work to earn it, there is likely a lack of compatibility. A man should follow his principles, which demonstrates his character. If a woman cannot respect him for that, they are not compatible.
 
#38 ·
I wonder if it's that she earns more than her husband or that she (currently) earns so much more than her husband that's really bothering her. Given some of the language that she used, I suspect the former.

Either way, I'd advise him to divorce. They clearly have different value systems, and there's no real way to reconcile that. Hell, she can't even reconcile the fact that she doesn't truly hold to the values that she preaches.

Best to call it quits now before she winds up starting a family w/ her boss.
 
#42 · (Edited)
I think this is a common dilemma for many women.

1) They want to be able to achieve in their careers just like men (as they should)

2) They are attracted to men who are successful, usually in a way that would make them a good provider. They really don't have much control over this. This is what they've evolved to be attracted to over 10's of thousands of years.

So there's often conflict between what they consciously want (career success) and what they are unconsciously attracted to (men who are more successful than they are). This can lead to them entering relationships based on what they think they want only to discover later that it's not what their subconscious wants. They're not happy and they're not sure why.

Attaining great success in their career while also finding a man who's even more successful isn't easy. Those "even more successful" men may prioritize looks or willingness to devote time to them over business success.

One way this seems to manifest itself is for many younger women these days is to prioritize capability (or "passion") in some endeavor but not necessarily with the result of making money. This would seem like a more achievable goal.

I have also read that female breadwinners have a harder time dealing with the responsibility of being the primary source of support for their family.

When you're a guy it's simple; you graduate from school (high school, college, grad school), you work every day of your life until you either die or retire.
 
#43 ·
Lol, 1st world problems. My family has money, but my husband doesn't make enough. I can't get a hard on for the loser anymore.

This guy should leave her, show her how little money really means in life and she'll realize that she lost everything she really ever wanted.
 
#47 ·
I have noticed that women who play reindeer games with and vs men tend to be very driven, focused, and competitive. They respect nothing other than an absolute equal or superior. Anything less is just... less.

When they met, he was successful. He was a power player. She found that attractive. He stopped being a power player and therefore became less and less attractive. Simple.
 
#49 ·
My wife quit work when she became pregnant and decided not to return. Her work was always optional (financially, at least) and I was supportive of this choice. When she was a SAHM, she told me of all the harsh and judgmental comments from other women who felt that she was choosing to be "just a mom" and shouldn't settle for less than a brilliant professional career.

When she went back to work part-time years later, she told me of all the harsh and judgmental comments from other women who felt that she was neglecting her child and should prioritize her family.

Either scenario made her doubt her own choices and she felt shame. It was easier for her to mover her associations to women who shared her choices at the time. Not only were they not critical since they had made the same choice, but just being around other women who were doing the same thing gave her confidence that she was not alone in her feelings.

It's pretty amusing that people say a woman shouldn't care what other women think. Of course they do. There are entire industries that thrive on a woman's need to gain approval from others. Just as there are for men.

Back on the main topic: There are simply some overall truths that exist in the western world. The typical woman wants a man who can offer her security, even if she wants to be independent. That security can be financial, physical, emotional or more often than not a mix of the three. If you're a man who can't/won't offer these things, you will have to find someone who is not typical. Then you factor in the women like the author of this letter who say one thing but actually feel another and you end up with a pretty small group of women that would make a suitable partner. Both people make their choices and both get to live with the outcomes. Denying obvious truths is a recipe for disaster. If we take everything in the story at face value, the husband made a huge error thinking that a reversal in the provider role would not cause problems. Despite what his wife may have agreed to upfront.

I don't think she is bad or evil, just selfish. So is he. Without compromise, their marriage is going to be quite rocky. Or worse.
 
#54 ·
Back on the main topic: There are simply some overall truths that exist in the western world. The typical woman wants a man who can offer her security, even if she wants to be independent. That security can be financial, physical, emotional or more often than not a mix of the three. If you're a man who can't/won't offer these things, you will have to find someone who is not typical. Then you factor in the women like the author of this letter who say one thing but actually feel another and you end up with a pretty small group of women that would make a suitable partner. Both people make their choices and both get to live with the outcomes. Denying obvious truths is a recipe for disaster. If we take everything in the story at face value, the husband made a huge error thinking that a reversal in the provider role would not cause problems. Despite what his wife may have agreed to upfront.
Yup.
 
#53 ·
What is more important is that as the "bread winner" (and the glass ceiling breaker) she is getting better than average Female Wage.

She must be forced to remain employed to protect the balance of gender wage ratio.

Every case I've heard of where a female gets the top wage brackets she gets the option to toss it all away and leave (now her nest egg is well padded). This seldom happens in the case of the "male" genders who are generally not respected in life and have no social relevance if they quit, and almost always find themselves unhireable after a few years (unlike their "female" counterpart where 're-entry' is not uncommon, especially in consulting roles - a percieved value of scarcity, and orientated towards the "sale"/promotion of the gender aspect). the males are held to working until the officlal age of retirement, unless dumped first.

As long as rich women can keep skewing the gender-wage results like this equality of gender-wage for younger/poorer-paid people is totally skewed. Should your male co-workers demand more wages if a male CEO leaves (throwing the male numbers lower)?
 
#55 ·
I agree with @MJJEAN. This woman met this guy as a top dog. She comes from a family of high achievers and was attracted to her husband when they first met because he was a go getter. Now that financially and career wise, things have taken a turn for the worse, she is no longer attracted to him.

With her working in a male dominated field, surrounded by alpha types, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she's developing a wondering eye.
 
#57 ·
Man, is this woman conflicted.

She dislikes her father's wealth and power yet she married a man with similar qualities. She expected that nothing would change.

She dislikes her mother's opinion that women shouldn't work, yet she admitted that she broke through the glass ceiling, earning more than she could have originally anticipated. Well, she was free to turn down the promotions if it's now landed her in a place she doesn't want to be.

It's everyone else's fault but hers, and the husband is getting the biggest shovel load because he's conveniently living with her. That poor man, I hope someone connects the dots and shows him that transcript so he lets her go.

Of course, once the dust settles and he finds a woman that accepts him for who he is, that's when she'll really, really want him.

She's building up imaginary walls and hindrances all around and doesn't take charge of her own destiny. Its really sad that she'll go on NPR about this but won't have a serious talk with her husband.
 
#59 ·
Her mother in law is the one who does not believe in mothers working.

This woman is successful. That is the bottom line. Rejecting promotions would not have stopped that. She is smart and really good at what she does and everyone who works with her surely recognizes that.

But it can be lonely (and probably frustrating and disillusioning) at the top.
 
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#61 ·
She needs a man she can genuinely look up to. Not working at it. Not willing herself to it. Certainly not lying to herself about it to be able to stay.

She may have simply outgrown this one, and realizes it. And I am not surprised that it is just killing her inside.
 
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#63 ·
She needs a man she can genuinely look up to. Not working at it. Not willing herself to it. Certainly not lying to herself about it to be able to stay.

She may have simply outgrown this one, and realizes it. And I am not surprised that it is just killing her inside.
A women wants to look up to her man. The problem is with more women taking a larger portion of professional jobs, there are fewer jobs for a man to be able to earn enough be a head of household and therefore be someone she can look up to.

In recent decades many higher paying manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to China, and a significant number of IT jobs went to India, leaving fewer and fewer good paying opportunities for men. Add that fields like media, finance, and healthcare that once provided opportunities for men and women in about even numbers are now dominated by women and you have a recipe for many dissatisfied women along with more and more articles excoriating men to man up.

But the problem is just going to get worse. When you take into account that right now woman are 61% of the students in colleges in the West. Not every woman is going to get a man she can look up to. But it's not a question of convincing women to accept a man that is beneath her.

50 years of feminist social engineering can't undo over a million years of humanoid evolution. A woman can't respect a man that she sees as beneath her. A man that a woman can't respect is a man that she can't love.
 
#65 ·
My grandmother who passed away last year, used to tell me that people often fall in love with the very thing they end up disliking about their spouse, after they get married.

This woman knew he was a risk taker. At one time, she liked that side of him, and it attracted her to him. He took a risk, and didn't 'follow the rules,' and here they are.

My grandmother would have something to say about this. :eek:
 
#99 ·
There is risk taking and there is risk taking. Using savings to get a graduate degree and pay living expenses, finishing debt free, sounds like a "safe" risk, right? I'm sure it never crossed her mind that he could spend all of his savings to get a graduate degree only to make 1/4 of his previous salary.

Yes we read the same thing. I guess we just interpreted it differently! ;-)

You could be right! Unfortunately, until we hear his side, we'd have no idea. She is so resentful of him, disappointed. Maybe he did pull a bait and switch. Most of what I read from her is a lot of blameshifting... But that's just what I see I suppose.
Well, now I'm curious as to where you see blame shifting. :smile2:

The way I read it, they met and fell in love. They married. She agreed to temporarily support the household with the help of his savings and some budgeting until he got his graduate degree and then things would return to status quo only with her H enjoying his dream job.

The reality ended up being that he makes 1/4 what he did before, now has no savings, and his drop in professional and social standing has made her level of attraction to him plummet.

Additionally, she'd like to become a mother, but doesn't feel safe to do so. As she is now paying 90% of their living expenses, if something happened during the pregnancy and/or delivery that rendered her unable to work or unable to work as much, they'd be in financial trouble with a brand new baby and all the related child rearing expenses. So, there's some resentment there.

Of course, she is also struggling with what she feels vs what the PC police and the feminist movement think she should feel.

Thing is, I really get it. I'm 41 and live in the midwest. My friends, family, and neighbors are a mix of blue and white collar and aged anywhere from 20 to 55. I have heard of few men who make significantly less than their wives and, believe me, they get grief for it. No one is overtly mean, but there is a lot of snark thinly disguised as good natured ribbing.

"Hey, you wanna go to the game? Better ask your wife's permission before we leave since we all know who wears the pants!" *group laughter*

"Wow, I love the car! You must be a good b!tch if she bought you that!"

"We were thinking of starting up the grill and thought we should ask the man of the house if it's ok first, so where's your wife?"

Also, it damn near becomes open season on the woman. Men assume she needs a "real man" and pursue her as if she were single. The gossip and thinly disguised snark are bad for the female half, too. When a woman around here is primary breadwinner, a lot of people think there is something wrong with her because she "failed" to find a "proper" man. Those who aren't busy wondering what's wrong with her are busy pitying her because she's stuck with a dud and must be too kind and nurturing to kick him out and find a "better" man.

God forbid they have kids. Then you hear things like "Well, what'd you expect? Of course the kid is messed up. Look at his parents and how he was raised. Poor kid had no example of manhood to follow." or "That poor little girl. Imagine growing up with no real father figure."

It sucks and it's bullpucky, but it is.

To be entirely fair, I do know two groups of men that are able to make less than their wives or even stay home altogether and who get no grief for it. Men who served in the military and men who have been disabled are given a pass. Everybody else better have a thick skin and give zero fcuks.



What has her husband done wrong exactly except not live up to her changing standards?
But her standards didn't change. Again, when they met and married, he was a senior professional in a position of power who was financially sound. Since they married 5 years ago, he's thrown away his senior level position of power, drained his savings, spent 2 years in college getting a degree, and now makes 1/4 his original salary and only contributes 10% to their living expenses.

Seriously, if the genders were reversed, a lot of posters would be thinking bait and switch.
 
#67 ·
Don't get married. That's what I take from this article. Her husband has done nothing wrong, she gave her approval and now she wants to leave. I think if I had kids I would be close to advising them think long and hard about marrying someone in today's world. People are so entitled that I don't think they have it in them to be married.
 
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