General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Is this somehow a controversial stance? I thought it was fairly common sense.
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It is to me
You seem ignorant on infidelity so I'll educate you
the truth is that most cheaters have no intentions on cheating and are fine in their marriage and once they start cheating they will rewrite marital history and even demonize their spouse in order to justify their affair.
ask many of the reformed cheaters on here like sigma he'll agree 100% on this
now are there certain scumbags like serial cheaters? you bet, but the majority of cheating are from everyday folks who get caught up in the endorphins of an affair after a gradual increase of crossing new increasingly immoral boundary lines
someone had a post and I wish I could find it of how a typical EA with an old exboyfriend on facebook gets started, most affairs get started like that
Privacy in your terms means secrets. There should be no secrets in a marriage, no closed chapters in our books. If you do have secrets then you will eventually lose your partner’s trust because you are going to deceive and lie in order to maintain your secrets.
Thanks for taking it upon yourself to re-define the meaning of words, but, no, I don't define privacy as keeping secrets. I define privacy as privacy. I define privacy as my wife having the freedom to email, call or speak to a friend or family member without being obligated to share the contents of those discussions with me. I define privacy as being able to text to a friend without feeling that every word I say will be reviewed by my wife.
Seriously, do you cc your significant other on all you texts and emails? Do you recount all the conversations you've had in a day? If that pair of jeans really does make her look fat, do you tell her?
If not, aren't you keeping secrets?
If what I think doesn't work for you, then by all means be a snoop. Posted via Mobile Device
The spelling errors, lack of paragraphs, female bashing and general tone of superiority make me wonder who the OP really is and why anyone even bothers responding. But maybe that's just me.
As to the topic on hand - before my husband did what he did I would have agreed that installing a keylogger was something invasive and intrusive to him. Even the day before I found his emails and chats I would have said that. It's like having kids - don't EVER give advice to a parent if you don't have kids of your own. You'll come across as condescending and ignorant.
Frank, get a grip. No one is advocating spying when there are no signs.
Well saying there's no such as privacy in a marriage sure sounds that way.
That said, no one is advocating not investigating red flags. Posted via Mobile Device
Oh, and for the record - I don't review every word my husband emails or texts. I hardly ever bother any more. But if I wanted to I could because he gives me all his passwords and everything. But most waywards are not so forthcoming, and the betrayed often needs proof before they will act, and the only way to get proof is to spy. Cheaters are masters at deception. I also never did install a keylogger or use a VAR but I would in a heartbeat if I suspected anything now.
Thanks for taking it upon yourself to re-define the meaning of words, but, no, I don't define privacy as keeping secrets. I define privacy as privacy. I define privacy as my wife having the freedom to email, call or speak to a friend or family member without being obligated to share the contents of those discussions with me. I define privacy as being able to text to a friend without feeling that every word I say will be reviewed by my wife.
Seriously, do you cc your significant other on all you texts and emails? Do you recount all the conversations you've had in a day? If that pair of jeans really does make her look fat, do you tell her?
If not, aren't you keeping secrets?
If what I think doesn't work for you, then by all means be a snoop. Posted via Mobile Device
Strawman. Again.
I do though wonder what the secrets are you are so desperate to keep from your wife with all your secrecy. But hey ho it’s your life and all that. But if your wife shows signs of insecurity in her marriage then think on all that privacy you so desperately want because that will more than likely be the cause. People who have nothing to hide never fear disclosure.
I find it quite funny in a strange way in that you have a very similar script to what some of the best cheaters have.
As an independent I.T. consultant, this thread has been an interesting read.
There's a widespread internet notion that, "If the computer is co-owned by two individuals, (i.e. A husband and wife) then one of the two can install the software without the knowledge or consent of the other."
I noticed several people stating as much on this thread.
But that's just not true everywhere. Joint property law does not trump privacy law in every state of the U.S.
The following states have laws in place which under most circumstances prohibit the use of this genre of software on another adult without their knowledge or consent:
Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Washington.
People (Mostly men so far) have actually gone to prison for installing this software on machines used by their spouse. Two men in Texas recently received four year prison sentences for installing surveillance software on their wives computers. One installed eBlaster and the other installed SpyRecon. These offenses were prosecuted as Class II felonies (!)
Regardless of what state you live in, using this software to intercept the email of another adult, including your spouse, can be actionable both civilly and criminally under 18 U.S.C. Sec 2511, which clearly states that the interception of wire and electronic communications is illegal.
Here is an excerpt from a handout I received (At a seminar on this subject) a couple of years ago. The context is family law and the author is a female attorney and computer expert:
"Clearly an attorney cannot threaten a criminal charge. However, we've seen the use of spyware used as a trump card time and again. Once the use of the spyware is proven, all the attorney needs to do is communicate that fact to the other side's counsel for the implications to be clear. Sometimes, this is done in the course of the deposition where the deponent will deny under oath having used the spyware, only to have the evidence shown to them. Likewise, if they take the Fifth, but the evidence is extant, it is clear to all what the risks are. To put it bluntly, cases in which the use of spyware can be proven tend to settle quickly."
You have to understand how thoroughly the use of this software can poison your legal position if you do opt for divorce. Do you really want to hand a cheating spouse an opportunity on a silver platter to turn the tables and make you the "Bad guy?" Do you really want your cheating spouse to come after you in a civil action?
Another indication of how much the legal climate has changed in the last few years is the position taken by the purveyors of this software.
SpectorSoft (Publisher of eBlaster and SpectorPro which IMO as an I.T person are two of the best.) used to promote the software as a tool to keep an eye on one's spouse.
Not anymore
The owner has openly stated that the federal government reviews his sales and the EULA states that SpectorSoft will cooperate with federal and local authorities in prosecutions arising from the illegal use of this software.
What are the two legal uses of this software?
"Spectorsoft EXPRESSLY forbids the purchase or use of the Remote Install feature for any purpose other than employers monitoring employees or parents monitoring their minor children, and Spectorsoft will terminate the software license of any purchaser of the Remote Install feature if it believes that the software has been used for a purpose other than an employer monitoring an employee or a parent monitoring a child."
I'm not sure how it could be worded any clearer than this. Your spouse is neither an employee nor a minor child. If you're thinking of using this genre of software on your spouse, I really hope you will talk to your attorney first.
the betrayed often needs proof before they will act
this the biggie that is being neglected
let's say your spouse shows some red flags (something is obviously wrong and they guard their phone and are late from work etc)
what options do you have?
option one-
talk to your spouse about your fears
seems reasonable, yes? Nope, a cheating spouse will lie and gaslight his or her way out of their trusting spouse's suspicious who desperately want to believe them.
option two-
go into MC
also seemingly reasonable, yes?
No again, the cheating spouse will not confess to infidelity under therapy in almost all cases. In fact this option becomes dangerous as the cheater then uses the venue to air out their grievances when all the while the main problem is their affair and the whole process becomes increasingly abusive to the betrayed spouse who tries so hard to please someone who is not willing to be honest and try to work on a marriage they are no longer interested in.
option three-
file for divorce
well the only reason this will work is that it may actually snap the cheater out of their fog if they want to stay married. But the reality is very few people will ever do this without substantial proof. Like most of us, we want to trust our spouse and will go to great lengths in fooling ourselves about the reality of what's actually going on.
IOW- we need proof in order to make an informed decision
so it comes down to either waiting for them to slip up (a really bad option) or spying and verifying what you already suspect (or ruling it out)
I do though wonder what the secrets are you are so desperate to keep from your wife with all your secrecy. But hey ho it’s your life and all that. But if your wife shows signs of insecurity in her marriage then think on all that privacy you so desperately want because that will more than likely be the cause. People who have nothing to hide never fear disclosure.
I find it quite funny in a strange way in that you have a very similar script to what some of the best cheaters have.
Tee-hee. Speaking of straw men.
Stop pretending you know me or anything about me.
My wife is free to see my emails, texts, phone logs, etc. anytime she asks.
But the key point is asking and receiving permission. It's not expected, demanded or required. Posted via Mobile Device
Re: Spying on your spouse, not such a good idea! 
