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post #76 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 04:59 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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Originally Posted by *Deidre* View Post
Is he marrying you to gain citizenship, do you think? I'm thinking this...which explains why the prenup is so specific. I don't see anything wrong with prenups, in general, but in your case, seeing that he's not a citizen, it seems like his way of gaining citizenship and then leaving you without losing anything.

You should sign the prenup with not your name but ''BYE.'' lol Let him become a citizen first, then think of marrying him. Then, we'll see what happens, and if he still desires marrying you.
Wise advise. Do not marry a man who is a temporary resident in you country.
This whole thing makes me very uneasy. I think he is using you.
Wait till he becomes a citizen(if he does).

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post #77 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:08 PM
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I agree that this guy is not marriage material, but that definition and characteristics of a Buyer is suspect.

A Buyer thinks that sacrifice is dangerous. Really? So how does everyone refusing to sacrifice promote marital harmony?

There are other examples I could pull, but this one stood out.

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Originally Posted by WorkingWife View Post
OMG, NO you are NOT over-reacting. What is the point of getting married? You don't need a piece of paper to "share love and emotions" WTH?

I think it makes sense for adults with children from previous relationships to have a pre-nup to ensure something is set aside for the children, or adults who marry later in life and bring considerable assets with them, to make sure that in the event of divorce they don't lose everything they've built up over the years.

But once you marry - you are supposed to be #1 to each other, and a unit. At least that's how I think most people look at it. I would think any income earned, any homes bought, post marriage is joint property. Otherwise, again, what is the point in being married?

He is not going into this with an attitude of cherishing you. And he's being very controlling using anger and freezing you out to avoid a conversation and try to manipulate you into signing a document that is not in your best interest at all. If you can't talk with him about this now, how will communication be once you are married?

You might check this forum topic out - your fiance is a renter at best. I don't think you should marry this man. Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders - Marriage Builders® Forums (There's a book on the topic too. Buyers, Renter, and Freeloaders - by Willard F. Harley, Jr. Ph.D.)
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post #78 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
We are also in a second marriage, but I would not marry a man who even mentioned a prenup. Its not what marriage is about at all. All I had before is now ours, and all he had before is now ours.
Its as if you are thinking of divorce before you even get married.
I disagree. I think it's necessary when one spouse has assets or there are blended families.

I have a child and had been dating a lady who had two of her own. I wanted to make sure my kid got my house and she wanted to make sure her kids had their college funds protected.

Would it seem unreasonable to get a prenup in that circumstance? Or should everything be pooled together and hopefully it all works out?
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post #79 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:21 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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I disagree. I think it's necessary when one spouse has assets or there are blended families.

I have a child and had been dating a lady who had two of her own. I wanted to make sure my kid got my house and she wanted to make sure her kids had their college funds protected.

Would it seem unreasonable to get a prenup in that circumstance? Or should everything be pooled together and hopefully it all works out?
A lot of this depends...

How old is your child?

Whose name is on your child's college fund? Are you still putting money in it?

With your house... do you own it out right? Is it the house that you and your wife would be living in? Will she be making part of the house payments and money towards upkeep of the house? Or will you use pre-marital money for this?

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post #80 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:25 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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Originally Posted by DTO View Post
I disagree. I think it's necessary when one spouse has assets or there are blended families.

I have a child and had been dating a lady who had two of her own. I wanted to make sure my kid got my house and she wanted to make sure her kids had their college funds protected.

Would it seem unreasonable to get a prenup in that circumstance? Or should everything be pooled together and hopefully it all works out?
I had a house and he didn't. I still didn't even think of getting a prenup, I don't believe in them.
I knew what sort of man he was by the kind way he treated his ex in their divorce. Despite her cheating and ending their marriage, he acted with fairness, generosity, decency and integrity throughout. I wouldn't marry a man who didn't have those qualities. I have no worries about it.
I have three children and he has two. We have both made wills and if I die first he will be able to live in the house until he dies. Then it will go to my children. His house went to his wife and his sons will share that.
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post #81 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:33 PM
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The OP should avoid this guy. But that is based on him not wanting to share within the marriage, and his dismissal of her concerns.

I think keeping separate assets separate is fine. This guy has a son he wants to protect. Also, he is significantly older than her. She has an extra decade to work and build up assets all for herself.

I also am fine with specifying no alimony in the event of divorce. That is because I have a foundational belief that an adult can care for him or herself. I never asked my ex for alimony or child support, even when I was out of work.
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post #82 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:45 PM
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A lot of this depends...

How old is your child?

Whose name is on your child's college fund? Are you still putting money in it?

With your house... do you own it out right? Is it the house that you and your wife would be living in? Will she be making part of the house payments and money towards upkeep of the house? Or will you use pre-marital money for this?
My child is 14.

The college accounts were hers (for her kids).

The house is not free and clear. But the payment is low (you can't rent a decent apartment for what the mortgage costs). There would have been a sizable income discrepancy; I would pay for all housing expenses.

Last edited by DTO; 02-11-2017 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Clarifying the post.
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post #83 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 04:10 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
We are also in a second marriage, but I would not marry a man who even mentioned a prenup. Its not what marriage is about at all. All I had before is now ours, and all he had before is now ours. Its as if you are thinking of divorce before you even get married.
The bold is not at all how I see it, @Diana7. If that's how you see it, that's fine. I won't try to convince you of my reasons, since it seems they may not resound with you.

Our marriage is more than stable and strong, our prenup is a distant memory, and it is always there if we need it. It's like insurance - better to have and not need than to need and not have.

To your last point: One fact of life (as I see it) is, our marriage may not always be there. If I've learned anything in my life thus far, it is that nothing, not even the things we love, cherish, and trust most dearly are certain or permanent. Everything has the potential to be transitory. I know and believe this because it's happened to me on more than one occasion. We chose to be prepared and the decision suits us both. It may not suit others.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

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post #84 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 04:23 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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The bold is not at all how I see it, @Diana7. If that's how you see it, that's fine. I won't try to convince you of my reasons, since it seems they may not resound with you.

Our marriage is more than stable and strong, our prenup is a distant memory, and it is always there if we need it. It's like insurance - better to have and not need than to need and not have.

To your last point: One fact of life (as I see it) is, our marriage may not always be there. If I've learned anything in my life thus far, it is that nothing, not even the things we love, cherish, and trust most dearly are certain or permanent. Everything has the potential to be transitory. I know and believe this because it's happened to me on more than one occasion. We chose to be prepared and the decision suits us both. It may not suit others.
That's why its so vital to only marry someone with integrity and decency and honesty and fairness. Having seen how my husband acted so kindly and generously with his ex, despite her relationship with another man, I have no worries as to how he would act with me in the same situation.
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post #85 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 04:30 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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That's why its so vital to only marry someone with integrity and decency and honesty and fairness. Having seen how my husband acted so kindly and generously with his ex, despite her relationship with another man, I have no worries as to how he would act with me in the same situation.
Then we're both lucky to have men with upstanding qualities.

With that , I end my t/j!


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post #86 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 10:12 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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That's why its so vital to only marry someone with integrity and decency and honesty and fairness. Having seen how my husband acted so kindly and generously with his ex, despite her relationship with another man, I have no worries as to how he would act with me in the same situation.
Sometimes... you just don't know. Money does things to people.

Real life story: my mother got sick and then passed away about 1.5 years after remarrying. She left everything in her husband's hands and trusted that he would keep his word and pass all her money on to me and my siblings (no will). He wound up keeping 25% of the money (besides the fact she had paid for some stuff for him while married).

It just happens too much to be an isolated incident.

Last edited by DTO; 02-11-2017 at 10:36 AM.
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post #87 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 10:35 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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My child is 14.

The college accounts were hers (for her kids).

The house is not free and clear. But the payment is low (you can't rent a decent apartment for what the mortgage costs). There would have been a sizable income discrepancy; I would pay for all housing expenses.
Coincidentally, I recently started a thread on a similar topic in the General Relationship forum. Briefly, my reasons for protecting myself in this manner is that I feel opening up my home and covering the majority of living expenses is a huge share. Second, I would protect any future partner (a life insurance plan).

But, to subsidize someone who no longer is married to me? No thank you, especially being at that stage in life where I won't be having more kids and don't want a stay-at-home spouse.
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post #88 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 11:58 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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Sometimes... you just don't know. Money does things to people.

Real life story: my mother got sick and then passed away about 1.5 years after remarrying. She left everything in her husband's hands and trusted that he would keep his word and pass all her money on to me and my siblings (no will). He wound up keeping 25% of the money (besides the fact she had paid for some stuff for him while married).

It just happens too much to be an isolated incident.
That's why you make a will. If I die first then the house will be my childrens with the proviso that DH can stay in it until he dies or remarries. He is not legally allowed to move another lady in. Any money left will go to the surviving spouse and when they die it will be divided between our 5 children.
I wonder why your mum didn't make a will in the time she was ill?

I know that he wouldn't cheat my children(who he is a dad to), I have seen the way he acts with this sort of thing. He is a very moral man.

Last edited by Diana7; 02-11-2017 at 12:05 PM.
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post #89 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 12:19 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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That's why you make a will. If I die first then the house will be my childrens with the proviso that DH can stay in it until he dies or remarries. He is not legally allowed to move another lady in. Any money left will go to the surviving spouse and when they die it will be divided between our 5 children.
I wonder why your mum didn't make a will in the time she was ill?

I know that he wouldn't cheat my children(who he is a dad to), I have seen the way he acts with this sort of thing. He is a very moral man.
In most states, a spouse gets 50% of all community assets regardless. A will cannot change that.

Upon divorce or death of a person who has assets, things often devolve into a huge fight over what assets are marital assets and which are sole property of each person. A will does not establish this, it can only distribute. One of the reasons that a will cannot establish which property is sole property is because only one spouse signs the will.

A prenup does establish, with agreement/signatures of both spouses which assets are marital assets and which are sole property.

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post #90 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 12:49 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Wise advise. Do not marry a man who is a temporary resident in you country.
This whole thing makes me very uneasy. I think he is using you.
Wait till he becomes a citizen(if he does).
I like this post by Diana7, and the one she quoted. It seems like wise advice.



Today, marriage is a legal contract, unless the two are married in a Christian ceremony, there is no moral binding.


Therefore,

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When I asked to discuss and clarify this, as well as ask why the terms changed from what I originally understood, he would get angry and refuse to discuss anything clearly and would only tell me to take it to my lawyer.

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This is wise advice. He gave it to you. He is being honest and using good judgment. He cannot explain all of the ramifications of the legalese. Only another attorney can. Notice, he didn't ask you to see his attorney, which would have been a conflict of interest. There is no deception involved. Get an attorney and ask all the questions you need answered.

After I pushed the subject further he told me no matter what he would not change the prenup because he believes a marriage is to share love and emotions only, not money

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He is being honest and open, again. Seems like an upstanding individual. Exclusivity in sex and emotions is expected within a marriage. Otherwise, we would not be at a site that is replete with threads about infidelity and it's cause in divorce.

Money, property and possessions are the business end of the marital contract. He has taken care of that separately with this prenup. The courts won't allow for much negotiation. He is doing it all prior to the ceremony and subsequent divorce. Divorce is not a guarantee, but it is a possibility when 55% end that way their first time, and 70% the second.
and then claimed I was making it clear I was after his money, which is not the case.

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It would seem less likely if you got your attorney to check these and came back with an offer of your own. You refuse, so what else would you believe was the conclusion? I don't see you complaining about the love, dedication, fidelity, or sexual benefits of your relationship. I'm not sure there is another conclusion.
He doesn't seem to understand that I feel as if he doesn't trust me or want me a part of his life and that the prenup makes me sound like a gold digger when I have previously never asked for anything from him money wise.
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If you previously never asked for anything from him money wise, why would it bother you? It's like you feel guilty for something you argue, you will not be interested in, i.e.: any assets he acquires. There really is no good complaint you can make.

He is honest and open. You must love him and feel loved by him, or you would not be interested in spending the rest of your life with him. That's a long time. Are you prepared for that length of time and the openness and honesty he seems to require?

Do you have a career? Are you a wage earner? If not, this man is not compatible.

If you do have a career, the only issue that can be imagined is money and wanting his assets, or a portion.

Remember, it's likely you keep yours too. So, check with your attorney.

You won't lose a thing in this marriage. That's a wonderful plan. You can make as much as you like, buy property, gain wealth, and never have to share it with him, should he cheat on you.

See? There are two sides to every coin.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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