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post #106 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 08:32 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I wouldn't marry someone who wanted one. We are both in our second marriage and it was never even mentioned. I had a house yet would still never get one. Thats not what marriage is for us, its a coming together and sharing of everything. If you don't trust you potential spouse and they don't have integrity or fairness then don't get married.
You seem to have a very black and white view of relationships and marriage. I'm glad it works for you but many of us are in different situations and think about things differently. A prenup isn't about a lack of trust, integrity, or fairness. It is about facing reality and making the best decisions for your situation. Think about it this way, if someone were to already have kids, get married, and get divorced again it is not just their money that is being put at risk. It is also things like your children's college saving, your children's house, etc. If you feel it's wise to risk that, then go for it. But for me that stuff is not negotiable. If my kids were grown and out of the house, then I wouldn't be so worried about them. But my obligation as a current father supersedes that of a potential husband. Also, if you've done any reading around here you'll find that spouses change and what was once an honorable and trustworthy spouse can turn into a totally unrecognizable person years down the line. So judging someone today and assuming that you'll both be the same in the future is foolish.

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post #107 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 10:22 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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You seem to have a very black and white view of relationships and marriage. I'm glad it works for you but many of us are in different situations and think about things differently. A prenup isn't about a lack of trust, integrity, or fairness. It is about facing reality and making the best decisions for your situation. Think about it this way, if someone were to already have kids, get married, and get divorced again it is not just their money that is being put at risk. It is also things like your children's college saving, your children's house, etc. If you feel it's wise to risk that, then go for it. But for me that stuff is not negotiable. If my kids were grown and out of the house, then I wouldn't be so worried about them. But my obligation as a current father supersedes that of a potential husband. Also, if you've done any reading around here you'll find that spouses change and what was once an honorable and trustworthy spouse can turn into a totally unrecognizable person years down the line. So judging someone today and assuming that you'll both be the same in the future is foolish.
Put the children's college money into their own savings accounts in their names. Simple.
We both have children of our own, we both had long first marriages, and we both treated our previous spouses with fairness and decency during the divorces despite their betrayals. If you have certain standards and integrity you will act well no matter what happens to you in life. My husband gave his former wife their house, she hadn't paid a penny towards the mortgage, that's the sort of man he is and always has been.
A prenup isn't what marriage is all about.
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post #108 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 11:25 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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Put the children's college money into their own savings accounts in their names. Simple.
We both have children of our own, we both had long first marriages, and we both treated our previous spouses with fairness and decency during the divorces despite their betrayals. If you have certain standards and integrity you will act well no matter what happens to you in life. My husband gave his former wife their house, she hadn't paid a penny towards the mortgage, that's the sort of man he is and always has been.
A prenup isn't what marriage is all about.
For you. But you're wrong if you think that is universal.
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post #109 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 11:35 AM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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For you. But you're wrong if you think that is universal.
I don't know a single couple who have a prenup. It seems pretty rare here.

My solicitor semi seriously advised that I get a prenup, I laughed.
Not for me. I believe that all we come into a marriage with becomes ours.
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post #110 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 03:37 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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I don't know a single couple who have a prenup. It seems pretty rare here.

My solicitor semi seriously advised that I get a prenup, I laughed.
Not for me. I believe that all we come into a marriage with becomes ours.
I can't bite my tongue.

I want to, but I have to ask.

If your current husband gave her the house in the divorce, did he think it was both of theirs or hers? If it was both of theirs, wouldn't they sell it and split the profit after taxes and mortgage?

I'm not trying to mess with you. I'm trying to get you to see the difference in what you are saying and what was done.

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post #111 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 03:58 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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I can't bite my tongue.

I want to, but I have to ask.

If your current husband gave her the house in the divorce, did he think it was both of theirs or hers? If it was both of theirs, wouldn't they sell it and split the profit after taxes and mortgage?

I'm not trying to mess with you. I'm trying to get you to see the difference in what you are saying and what was done.
It was both of theirs, in joint names. She hadn't paid anything towards it. He didn't want to fight it out in court so he let her have it. That's what he is like, a good and decent man. At the time both of their sons were also living with her(aged 18 and 21). She wouldn't have been able to afford anywhere with half the profit so he let her have it. He rented, and when we met and later married he moved into my home.
All he got was a small amount of money, she got the same amount herself. I thought he was mad but he felt that was the right thing to do, and I do admire and respect him for what he did.
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post #112 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:08 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

You shouldn't marry this guy. If he doesn't want to share with you what he has then the hell with him. Prenups are usually not worth the paper they're written on in court, but besides the point, the guy is a *******. Dump him.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #113 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:09 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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It was both of theirs, in joint names. She hadn't paid anything towards it. He didn't want to fight it out in court so he let her have it. That's what he is like, a good and decent man. At the time both of their sons were also living with her(aged 18 and 21). She wouldn't have been able to afford anywhere with half the profit so he let her have it. He rented, and when we met and later married he moved into my home.
All he got was a small amount of money, she got the same amount herself. I thought he was mad but he felt that was the right thing to do, and I do admire and respect him for what he did.
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I believe that all we come into a marriage with becomes ours.
It doesn't seem so.

Listen, I'm not saying he did the wrong thing. I'm saying, if it was as much his as hers, he would have split it with her, kids or not. He could have taken the children after going to court and telling them she had no where for them to live. He could have raised them and she could have visitation rights once she found a place.

Now, that does seem mean. Doesn't it? Well, it's fair. Only half was hers, not the whole thing. So, how can you say you believe that everything is ours?

Do you understand this isn't about being mean? It's about the definition of ours and fair. She put nothing into it, by your own words. Wouldn't getting half of it's value then, be more than fair?

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post #114 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:34 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I don't know a single couple who have a prenup. It seems pretty rare here.

My solicitor semi seriously advised that I get a prenup, I laughed.
Not for me. I believe that all we come into a marriage with becomes ours.
That's your personal belief. But marriage law in the UK does not believe that. Legally in the UK, the assets that each spouse had prior to marriage is their separate property.

There are many different situations that happen with marriage. Some people end up with good spouses. Some people think that when they marry that they are marrying a good person only to find out later that it's not the case at all. Look at all the horror stories on this forum. It's not usual at all for someone who find out after marriage that they married a person who put on a good show to get them. Some people change, even after years/decades of marriage and things go very wrong.

That is why some people who have significant assets get pre-nups.

You suggested putting the kids college funds in accounts in their own names. Well, if its in the kids name the kid can do with it as they choose, like not spend it on college. And the parent would have no say in it. A trust could be used I guess.

The benefit of a well written pre-nup is that it identifies the pre-marital/sole assets so that if anything does go wrong there is proof during a divorce that BOTH parties agreed before the marriage what the separate property is.

The problem I have with the OP's prenup is that it does not just name pre-marital assets, it seeks to call all marital income and assets separate property. This is just not going to work out well.

It's ok for you to not like the idea of a pre-nup. If you don't want one, don't get one.

But to vilify anyone who gets a pre-nup is just wrong. They serve a real purpose for some people and are a valid way to handle certain situations.
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post #115 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:38 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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It doesn't seem so.

Listen, I'm not saying he did the wrong thing. I'm saying, if it was as much his as hers, he would have split it with her, kids or not. He could have taken the children after going to court and telling them she had no where for them to live. He could have raised them and she could have visitation rights once she found a place.

Now, that does seem mean. Doesn't it? Well, it's fair. Only half was hers, not the whole thing. So, how can you say you believe that everything is ours?

Do you understand this isn't about being mean? It's about the definition of ours and fair. She put nothing into it, by your own words. Wouldn't getting half of it's value then, be more than fair?
We met when she was divorcing him after she had met another man. I went through all this with him. Half of the profits of their small house would not have bought either of them even a small one bed apartment. No where for the boys to live.
He is a kind and good man, he CHOOSE to let her have the house rather than fight in court. He CHOOSE to let her have his share.
I realise that most people don't act well in a divorce and are out to hurt the other person, but he is an exception. That's why I have no worries about the future.

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post #116 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:52 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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We met when she was divorcing him after she had met another man. I went through all this with him. Half of the profits of their small house would not have bought either of them even a small one bed apartment. No where for the boys to live.
He is a kind and good man, he CHOOSE to let her have the house rather than fight in court. He CHOOSE to let her have his share.
I realise that most people don't act well in a divorce and are out to hurt the other person, but he is an exception. That's why I have no worries about the future.
I see your point. It's not that I don't. I gave my first wife the house. I did not trust that her and her AP would last. I was concerned for my children. Turns out, they not only lasted, but she rented the house to some family. She wrote off her income, including money from a part-time job and turned around and charged me more child support, through the courts, since she had no income, according to what she reported on taxes.

So, he is lucky it worked out in his favor. And, I understand his concerns.

You don't see my point, and that's okay.

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post #117 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 05:05 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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I see your point. It's not that I don't. I gave my first wife the house. I did not trust that her and her AP would last. I was concerned for my children. Turns out, they not only lasted, but she rented the house to some family. She wrote off her income, including money from a part-time job and turned around and charged me more child support, through the courts, since she had no income, according to what she reported on taxes.

So, he is lucky it worked out in his favor. And, I understand his concerns.

You don't see my point, and that's okay.
One of my sisters married a guy who gave his ex the house. He was quite generous in eh divorce.

The ex then remarried, and she believed that in marriage everything both bring into the marriage should be marital property, so she put her new husband's name on the deed to the house. A few years later, her new husband divorced her and got the house. Lot of good it did for my now BIL to give her the house.

It would have been better had my now BIL kept the house in joint ownership with the provision that it be sold once the children were grown and out of the house. That would have prevented the new husband from throwing the kids out on the street and taking their home away from them.
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post #118 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 05:18 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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You suggested putting the kids college funds in accounts in their own names. Well, if its in the kids name the kid can do with it as they choose, like not spend it on college. And the parent would have no say in it. A trust could be used I guess.
Not to mention that both the trust and transferring assets are HUGE taxable events in the US. Who needs that?!
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post #119 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 05:34 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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One of my sisters married a guy who gave his ex the house. He was quite generous in eh divorce.

The ex then remarried, and she believed that in marriage everything both bring into the marriage should be marital property, so she put her new husband's name on the deed to the house. A few years later, her new husband divorced her and got the house. Lot of good it did for my now BIL to give her the house.

It would have been better had my now BIL kept the house in joint ownership with the provision that it be sold once the children were grown and out of the house. That would have prevented the new husband from throwing the kids out on the street and taking their home away from them.
Good example of a man doing something similar.

My point was not what you quoted. I was just giving an example of how I might be able to understand offering something that isn't fair and yet, similar to what Diana posted. The fact that it backfired on me, I was afraid might be taken as you did. That, women will do this to a man. Truly, I realize that both men and women can and will do things that aren't so nice.

My point was to try to get her to see that her idea of fair is not really fair. Fair, if the couple believes that everything is ours, as she stated in a previous post, is not what actually is fair.

Fair, would be to sell the house and split the profits. Whether there was enough to rent another place has nothing to do with being fair in splitting what is ours. I use the word, ours, to help with understanding.

She stated there wouldn't have been enough for either of them to rent a place. Well, somehow he did, without that little bit that couldn't have helped. So, her point was not made.

What it actually boils down to is that some think that fair is not actually splitting things equally. For some, it's what they believe they need to make it, since their partner will make it without them. I mean make it in the sense that they will have enough money and things to carry on without a lot of burden. That idea seems more common in divorces than equality in shared assets divided.

Make sense?

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post #120 of 138 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 06:48 PM
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Re: Am I overreacting to this prenup?

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I see your point. It's not that I don't. I gave my first wife the house. I did not trust that her and her AP would last. I was concerned for my children. Turns out, they not only lasted, but she rented the house to some family. She wrote off her income, including money from a part-time job and turned around and charged me more child support, through the courts, since she had no income, according to what she reported on taxes.

So, he is lucky it worked out in his favor. And, I understand his concerns.

You don't see my point, and that's okay.
His exes affair didn't last, and she is still alone 12 years later. He has no regrets about what he did. I think he should have tried to get more money out of the divorce, but it was his choice in the end.
I just know that I wouldn't marry a man who wanted a prenup. We are both Christians who believe that you stay in a marriage and keep your promises except where there is adultery or serious abuse. Neither of us were responsible for our marriages ending, and neither of us will end this one whatever happens. Its not an option.

Last edited by Diana7; 02-13-2017 at 07:03 PM.
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