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post #76 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 09:24 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by AVR1962 View Post

The porn lady does have a real life....she might have drug issues, she might be a real mental case, she might have high expectations, children she is trying to support, maybe she is suicidal.....I mention the hard issues because usually tit's the hard issues that busts marriages but in a magazine or online men do not know the person behind the porn, they just see the body. Are the men thinking, "she would never have anything to do with me in real life."? No! These men do not know her and so they look, fantasize and get caught up in the thought of what it would be with a girl that will never be available to him.
Before internet porn was available, I read that that part of the appeal of porn is that the wom(e)n on the page(s) is looking right at him. She wants HIM (along with the other 100,000 men who are looking at the same picture—but he doesn’t think about that!). She’s willing and wanting him to do with her, anything he wants. Plus, she’s ALWAYS available. Once he’s done with her, he simply closes the book. No muss, no fuss. What could be more convenient?

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Quite honestly, I think few men really want a 'relationship' with a woman....if the sex is less than what it has been they complain or start looking other places. So is it about a relationship with this person or is about sex?
I'm starting to believe the same thing. So many men (some women, too) claim to love their partners/spouses, but they will leave them/divorce if the sex is lacking. And, they will accept sex from the first sexually available person who comes along. So I wonder...is it the person they love or SEX that they 'love?

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I am in my mid 50's and several of our friends who have been married over 20 years have divorced, myself included. One of my best friends left her husband, issues were not due to porn or sex problems. When he started dating he found a very sweet lady his age but he referred to their time together as his ex weekends. Said she was only companionship. Meanwhile she is falling head over heels in love with him and I think he could leave her and never blink an eye.
They claim that they want to have sex with their spouse for the 'bonding' experience and the "emotional intimacy" that sex can bring. But quite often when they divorce, they still seek out sex. Do they want sex for the 'bonding' experience and the emotional intimacy with a new person that they don't even know? More than likely not.

Their behavior after the fact can both confuse and anger women. She can feel like basically he married her for sex and that it was sex that he loved; not her.

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post #77 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 09:28 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Well sex is a bonding experience. You get a lot more than a simple sexual release having sex.
Really? Even if you're in a FWB 'relationship' or if you're having a ONS...or simply casual sex? We don't "bond" with everyone we have sex with. Even if we're in a marriage, is EVERY sexual experience with our spouse a "bonding" experience?
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post #78 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 10:39 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Really? Even if you're in a FWB 'relationship' or if you're having a ONS...or simply casual sex? We don't "bond" with everyone we have sex with. Even if we're in a marriage, is EVERY sexual experience with our spouse a "bonding" experience?
I am not sure how exactly you want to classify bonding, but I can honestly say every time my W and I have sex I feel closer to her (not just literally lol).
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post #79 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 10:57 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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I am not sure how exactly you want to classify bonding, but I can honestly say every time my W and I have sex I feel closer to her (not just literally lol).
Ok, I'm glad to hear that, but I DO have a few questions for you...

Does your wife feel the same way? Does she ALWAYS feel "closer" to you when she has sex with you? I know I may be difficult for you to answer, as you're not inside your wife's head. And, there are some wives would SAY that they 'feel closer' to their husbands while not really feeling that way all the time.

Plus there are some men who will have sex with their wives while fantasizing about someone else (for instance, due to porn). Are they REALLY feeling "closer" to their wives during those times?
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post #80 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 11:02 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

I think many poeople think that they can have a FWB and discover sex is much more bonding than they had intended. Happened to a female friend of mine - he FWB (agreed to by both) became way to romantically involved - something she didn't want at that point in her life.


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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Really? Even if you're in a FWB 'relationship' or if you're having a ONS...or simply casual sex? We don't "bond" with everyone we have sex with. Even if we're in a marriage, is EVERY sexual experience with our spouse a "bonding" experience?
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post #81 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 11:21 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Ok, I'm glad to hear that, but I DO have a few questions for you...

Does your wife feel the same way? Does she ALWAYS feel "closer" to you when she has sex with you? I know I may be difficult for you to answer, as you're not inside your wife's head. And, there are some wives would SAY that they 'feel closer' to their husbands while not really feeling that way all the time.

Plus there are some men who will have sex with their wives while fantasizing about someone else (for instance, due to porn). Are they REALLY feeling "closer" to their wives during those times?
From what my W has said, yes, she does feel the same way. Now keep in mind though, my W and I get very little alone time together. If we are having sex that is one of the few times where we can truly just focus on each other and nothing else. I think that plays a big part in the way we feel. Now let's say we spent tons of time together every day, had sex frequently, would we feel that way every single time we had sex, IDK, maybe not.

I am sure there are both men and women who fantasize about someone else while having sex with their SO, so I wouldn't really narrow down to a men only question.
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post #82 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 11:23 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

A lot of interesting reading...

It's pretty clear that many of the conversations here are based on a chiefly American relationship perspective. I lived in Europe for 5 years, mostly Central Europe (BENELUX/Deutschland), and the attitude of sex was far more relaxed in and about their integration of sex into their life. My national friends looked to porn pretty nonchalantly... it was there, it was fun to look at, it encompassed everyday situation in their perspectives (non-Hollywood), and it was overall non-threatening to any relationship because it was a culturally accepted norm.

Here it is not, and as relationships break down for many modern reasons, we choose an easy scapegoat, something that is considered mainly morally reprehensible in mostly religious judgements. We always reach for the easy fruit first in finding fault, not in finding awareness.
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post #83 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 03:17 PM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
For some of us partnered sex is better than masturbation, full stop. I would (and have) take ONS or FWB sex over masturbation any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Why is masturbation taboo in many relationships, @Vega? Probably because a lot of people believe that all sexual energy should be directed toward one's partner whenever possible.
shows how everyone is different then. I wouldn't especially on Sunday
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post #84 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 03:20 PM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
This is the way I see it.

Everyone's sexuality is extremely personal. My own biological "urges" for an orgasm have NOTHING to do with who I'm with. I'd have those physical "urges" whether I'm with someone or not. And, I have had them at, shall I say, "inappropriate times" when I wasn't with ANYONE.

Do those "urges" STOP because we're 'with' someone?

Why do we believe that when we are in a relationship that all of those physical 'urges' we have are 'supposed' to be directed toward the person we're with?

And what do we do with them, if we're not with anyone at all?

The thing is, that we're going to have them whether we're with someone or not...whether we're with someone RIGHT NOW, or not.

So how can we say that it has anything to do with love?
Well as you say Vega it's all very personal so maybe for you it doesn't have anything to do with who your with and how you feel about them. But for many of us it's a close bonding experience and sex with someone you care about trumps doing it yourself or doing it with someone you could care less about. It is very personal
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post #85 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 03:21 PM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by Celes View Post
Sometimes you just want a quick release without having to worry about someone else's pleasure.

Porn is often just a tool, similar to a sex toy. At least it is for me and my husband.
I agree. For me I am very visual so when it comes to masterbation I need some visual stimuli and porn is obvious for that reason

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post #86 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 03:26 PM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Really? Even if you're in a FWB 'relationship' or if you're having a ONS...or simply casual sex? We don't "bond" with everyone we have sex with. Even if we're in a marriage, is EVERY sexual experience with our spouse a "bonding" experience?
Really!

Not everyone participates or finds much satisfaction from an FWB "relationships" or ONS.

And yes I would describe every sexual encounter for me within a relationship with someone I care about as bonding. People bond in different ways
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post #87 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 06:16 PM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Before internet porn was available, I read that that part of the appeal of porn is that the wom(e)n on the page(s) is looking right at him. She wants HIM (along with the other 100,000 men who are looking at the same picture—but he doesn’t think about that!). She’s willing and wanting him to do with her, anything he wants. Plus, she’s ALWAYS available. Once he’s done with her, he simply closes the book. No muss, no fuss. What could be more convenient?



I'm starting to believe the same thing. So many men (some women, too) claim to love their partners/spouses, but they will leave them/divorce if the sex is lacking. And, they will accept sex from the first sexually available person who comes along. So I wonder...is it the person they love or SEX that they 'love?



They claim that they want to have sex with their spouse for the 'bonding' experience and the "emotional intimacy" that sex can bring. But quite often when they divorce, they still seek out sex. Do they want sex for the 'bonding' experience and the emotional intimacy with a new person that they don't even know? More than likely not.

Their behavior after the fact can both confuse and anger women. She can feel like basically he married her for sex and that it was sex that he loved; not her.
Very good points! For me, my relationship with the man I love out-weighs the sexual part. But I also believe that the intimacy that you have from being able to hold hands and give your trust to one another is a huge part of being able to give to aone another sexually.
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post #88 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 08:27 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I'm starting to believe the same thing. So many men (some women, too) claim to love their partners/spouses, but they will leave them/divorce if the sex is lacking. And, they will accept sex from the first sexually available person who comes along. So I wonder...is it the person they love or SEX that they 'love?

They claim that they want to have sex with their spouse for the 'bonding' experience and the "emotional intimacy" that sex can bring. But quite often when they divorce, they still seek out sex. Do they want sex for the 'bonding' experience and the emotional intimacy with a new person that they don't even know? More than likely not.


Why would someone claim to love a spouse, but divorce over sex?

The simple answer is that sex is a necessary component of an adult romantic relationship and compatibility in this area is important. Not just compatibility in terms of drive and kinks, but also in terms of point of view and level of importance. If sex is important to one or both partners and there is a glaring incompatibility, divorcing due to this incompatibility is the same as divorcing over any other incompatibility.

Sex and love are not mutually inclusive or mutually exclusive. Neither are sex and bonding.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #89 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 08:35 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

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Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
Why would someone claim to love a spouse, but divorce over sex?

The simple answer is that sex is a necessary component of an adult romantic relationship and compatibility in this area is important. Not just compatibility in terms of drive and kinks, but also in terms of point of view and level of importance. If sex is important to one or both partners and there is a glaring incompatibility, divorcing due to this incompatibility is the same as divorcing over any other incompatibility.

Sex and love are not mutually inclusive or mutually exclusive. Neither are sex and bonding.
Agreed. As well, I think part of the issue, if you look at @Vega statement below:

Quote:
I'm starting to believe the same thing. So many men (some women, too) claim to love their partners/spouses, but they will leave them/divorce if the sex is lacking. And, they will accept sex from the first sexually available person who comes along. So I wonder...is it the person they love or SEX that they 'love?
Per the bolded, says who? It makes it seem like many men (and some women) are in it just to get laid, plain and simple, so they will take whatever they can get Maybe this is true for some, but what is to say that those same people instead are looking for a strong sexual connection/compatibility with someone, not a quick romp in the sheets with the first person who offers up.
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post #90 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 10:59 AM
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Re: "Til Porn Do Us Part"

What is WITH all the people who are torn to bits by porn? I don't get it. I honestly don't. I first "caught" my then-fiance looking at porn when I was 17. It was some brunette girl in stockings who didn't look dissimilar to me. He grinned and blushed and I did too and I said, "Soooo... you want me to wear fishnets?" He replied, "...maybe.", all sheepish and adorable.

We both look at porn. We both know we look at porn. And if neither of us had ever seen the genitalia of the opposite sex, we would probably be even worse at sex than we are now. Sometimes I wish we had both had sexual experience with other people before getting married, solely so we would know how to get ourselves and each other off when not doing it solo.

Seriously, what is the issue here?

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