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post #136 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:40 AM
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Re: need your thoughts

Have you listened to the VAR?

The WhatsAPP is not good.

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post #137 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 12:38 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

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There was a disconnect 2 years ago, a major failure in communication. We basically "existed" together for a year. She admitted that she had made a conscious decision to just do her own thing and not worry about me, and I admitted that I built up a lot of resentment because I felt she wasn't including me in her life. We decided to work on our relationship but she still felt we drifted too far apart. My argument to that was how do you know how far you drifted if you never really talk to each other. The woman I had an online emotional affair with started out as us talking about my marriage and our problems. She offered a lot of advice and a lot of it helped. My marriage and our relationship were improving until she found out about this other woman. Yes I had feelings for her but my relationship with her still revolved around me talking and venting about my marriage
You really screwed up. A spouse has every right to leave after an affair, which is what you had. Instead of leaving you, your wife emotionally withdrew to protect herself.

I second the recommendation for Surviving an Affair. If you want to save your marriage, I recommend you stop with the "focusing on myself and stop caring what my wife thinks" and instead focus on meeting your wife's needs for the sake of your marriage and your children. She's deeply hurt by you and you both have a lot of work to do to regain eachother's trust.

You can do it but it will require spending at least 20 hours a week of quality time together to fall back in love. This leaves little to no room for your own independent activities after you factor in work and family time with your kids.

You both need full transparency. Get off social media, exchange all device passwords, give each other full details of how you spend your time each day.

Treat your wife like you did when you were dating her. Fall back in love. It is possible to do. You have to rebuild a new marriage. You've both been unfaithful and turned to others outside your marriage to meet your emotional needs. That's betrayal.
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post #138 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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Have you listened to the VAR?

The WhatsAPP is not good.
I have listened to the VAR's and there has been nothing. There was one conversation with a friend of hers, I cross referenced the call log for her cell to see who she was talking to, and they were talking about how she thinks I'm making a bigger deal out of all this than it is, and how all it was was an unsolicited text that she barely entertained. She knows that I know she was texting him with WhatsApp and yes she could've deleted the messages. But the night I got into the phone I know she hadn't looked at her phone for at least an hour before I got a hold of it, so is they are still talking he didn't send any messages or they really have stopped talking.

Like I said, from what I saw on the phone the other night, there were texts with friends talking about it, but they were all about how I'm making a big deal out of unsolicited text from him. So it's one of two things, either all it was was "harmless" flirting during regular everyday conversation and him just crossing the line and trying to make a move, or I caught things in time before they did become physical. Either way my radar is still up and I'm still going to investigate anything that comes up, but for now I just have to see how things play out.
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post #139 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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You really screwed up. A spouse has every right to leave after an affair, which is what you had. Instead of leaving you, your wife emotionally withdrew to protect herself.

I second the recommendation for Surviving an Affair. If you want to save your marriage, I recommend you stop with the "focusing on myself and stop caring what my wife thinks" and instead focus on meeting your wife's needs for the sake of your marriage and your children. She's deeply hurt by you and you both have a lot of work to do to regain eachother's trust.

You can do it but it will require spending at least 20 hours a week of quality time together to fall back in love. This leaves little to no room for your own independent activities after you factor in work and family time with your kids.

You both need full transparency. Get off social media, exchange all device passwords, give each other full details of how you spend your time each day.

Treat your wife like you did when you were dating her. Fall back in love. It is possible to do. You have to rebuild a new marriage. You've both been unfaithful and turned to others outside your marriage to meet your emotional needs. That's betrayal.
My wife emotionally withdrew long before my EA, I think that's one of the reasons I found myself in an EA in the first place, and no I'm not making excuses. I never meant to have an EA, I didn't set out looking for one, it just happened over time. At the very start of our problems my wife never wanted to talk about them, her outlook on everything was always "Well let's just see what happens"

I have tried to fulfill her needs since my EA and all that has done is push her further away which is what I believe led her to have now 2 EA's. I have talked to her about full transparency and being completely open and honest about everything. She knows the passwords for both my phone and my computer, however she outright refuses to give me hers or let me at least look at her phone while she's sitting there. My issue now is that I have pulled a 180, I don't hide anything from her, anything she asks me I answer, and she can look at my phone or computer at any time she wants. As far as she's concerned, her phone and computer are private and I have no business looking at them and her reactions to things I ask her feel like she's constantly hiding things from me.

Granted after accessing her phone, I have seen nothing that tells me her last EA ever got physical but her behavior has just been odd and completely out of character for her so all I can do is keep my guard up and see what happens
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post #140 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 01:01 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

AtMyEnd, your marriage sounds like a mess. She's texting with another guy and doesn't want you to see. That's enough to classify as another EA, in my mind. Sounds like she's still getting her needs met outside of the marriage, in which case, you'll never be able to compete because she's in a fog. She's getting needs met by the OM without the stress of raising kids, paying bills, etc. with him.

A sexually explicit text is enough to expose to your extended family and children. This will break up the EA. Is the OM married? I'd make sure his wife gets a copy of that text. Did you save it?

Sounds to me like previous EAs on both your parts were swept under the rug. You're allowing it to happen again in your marriage. You need to stop it so you and your wife can recover. She's going to be angry after you expose and will likely threaten to leave you. But in Surviving an Affair, Dr. Harley says that if you remain calm and continue to focus on your kids and show her what a good, recovered marriage can look like, she will likely not be able to walk away from that (if she cares about her family at all, and most women do, even if for the kids). From there you can rebuild- spending 20+ hours a week together, falling back in love.

Good luck- sounds like you need to do it right this time. Rug sweeping never works.
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post #141 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 01:20 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

I am going to reemphasize what someone has already posted.

You just stated she has emotionally withdrawn from the marriage.

How long can you live like this before you are "sick and tired of being sick and tired"

Your family dynamic isn't helping your kids by staying in a dysfunctional marriage.

You are hurting them by showing them a normal that shouldn't be.

I can already see that it is going to take something drastic to pull her back into this marriage if it can be done at all.
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post #142 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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AtMyEnd, your marriage sounds like a mess. She's texting with another guy and doesn't want you to see. That's enough to classify as another EA, in my mind. Sounds like she's still getting her needs met outside of the marriage, in which case, you'll never be able to compete because she's in a fog. She's getting needs met by the OM without the stress of raising kids, paying bills, etc. with him.

A sexually explicit text is enough to expose to your extended family and children. This will break up the EA. Is the OM married? I'd make sure his wife gets a copy of that text. Did you save it?

Sounds to me like previous EAs on both your parts were swept under the rug. You're allowing it to happen again in your marriage. You need to stop it so you and your wife can recover. She's going to be angry after you expose and will likely threaten to leave you. But in Surviving an Affair, Dr. Harley says that if you remain calm and continue to focus on your kids and show her what a good, recovered marriage can look like, she will likely not be able to walk away from that (if she cares about her family at all, and most women do, even if for the kids). From there you can rebuild- spending 20+ hours a week together, falling back in love.

Good luck- sounds like you need to do it right this time. Rug sweeping never works.
Yes with both my EA and the first time I caught her texting another man it did kind of get swept under the rug. When she caught me, I came clean and told her everything. She showed me that she had proof of the texts so why should I hide anything, that was my outlook on things then. Then when I saw that she was texting another man all day everyday and I called her out on it, all I got was denial, refusal and deflection. We talked about it multiple times and I always got the same thing, nothing. Other than seeing her text logs, I had no real proof of any wrong doing. I had to take her on her word and see what happened.

Things between us did improve over time. I didn't see any suspicious texting and her data usage wasn't out of the ordinary. As much as I never knew exactly what happened there, I was comfortable that it had stopped, but I also never let my guard down. That's why this time when I noticed her starting to withdraw again I went into high gear. I guess I was lucky the night I found the text that I walked into the room and her phone was in her hand unlocked and she was asleep. I saw something on the screen that was questionable and scrolled through and saw the text from him. This time it hasn't been swept under the rug, anything that is questionable is brought up to her, and it's caused a lot of tension and caused her to withdraw more. Since then I have seen a lot that tells me that it was just that one text and that she is no longer speaking to her. Our relationship does go up and down on an almost daily basis but there has been a sense of normalcy at times. I still want to have a full conversation with her about what exactly happened and what we need to do to save our marriage, but I know I can't until more normalcy has returned to our relationship.
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post #143 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 01:43 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

Sounds like you really want to save this marriage for the sake of your family. In that case, you need to bust up this recent EA. She's withdrawing likely because she's taking it underground and probably doesn't feel guilty since she's justifying it with your past EA.

You need to expose and get her to send a no contact letter to the OM. Does she work with him? If so she will need to leave that job.

You will not be able to repair your marriage fully until you address the EA and get rid of the OM. Your wife needs to end all contact so she can grieve and move forward with you and work toward recovery with you. Until that happens, your marriage will continue to be in limbo and she will withdraw and come out of her shell only often enough to make sure you're still her fallback. Is the OM married? He likely has no intention of leaving for an EA and your wife knows this. Exposure will make him run.
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post #144 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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Sounds like you really want to save this marriage for the sake of your family. In that case, you need to bust up this recent EA. She's withdrawing likely because she's taking it underground and probably doesn't feel guilty since she's justifying it with your past EA.

You need to expose and get her to send a no contact letter to the OM. Does she work with him? If so she will need to leave that job.

You will not be able to repair your marriage fully until you address the EA and get rid of the OM. Your wife needs to end all contact so she can grieve and move forward with you and work toward recovery with you. Until that happens, your marriage will continue to be in limbo and she will withdraw and come out of her shell only often enough to make sure you're still her fallback. Is the OM married? He likely has no intention of leaving for an EA and your wife knows this. Exposure will make him run.
I have accessed her phone without her knowing and have gone through everything, every app, every message, everything. I'm seen texts with friends talking about the whole situation in detail and I have not seen anything that tells me things ever became physical or that she is still talking to him. We had a small argument last week over something and I had asked her again if she was still talking to him and she told me no, and that whatever I said to him when I confronted him scared him to the point of cutting all contact with her. Whether I fully believe that or not is a whole other thing, but from what I can see there has been no contact. So at this point I need to just take all this as just an unsolicited text as she's told me it was and as I've seen she's told all her friends it was.

That being said, we did speak briefly about things yesterday. She noticed something was bothering me and asked me what, so I told her. I told her that I feel like I don't know what direction we're going in or even trying to go in and it bothers me. I told her that which ever direction we go in at this point is ok, but let's make a decision and make it known to each other and go with it. She said to me "You make it sound like the easiest decision in the world". I said no, the easiest decision in the world would be to just say F it and walk away from it all. But I'm not ready to give up fighting for us and the life and family we've built together because of a couple bad years and a few stupid choices made by both of us. And she told me that she couldn't make a decision yet and that she needs to feel comfortable right now and at peace with things.

Now yes, I understand this to an extent. I have seen things and jump to conclusions and made accusations, right or wrong I did it and it made her feel uncomfortable that I'm constantly watching her and I don't believe a word she says. In the past week she has done things, said things, and asked things purposely trying to piss me off and react, but I didn't. I've realized that she's testing me, she's trying to see if I'm going to flip out over any little thing like she's said I've done in the past. I know I've done it and I'm conscious to it now so I'm trying my best not to do it.

Will things get to a point where we can really rebuild? I don't know. But for now I just have to keep a watchful eye and see how things progress. It's not worth letting all the little things get to me and make me upset. If things get better great, if I find something that proves 100% she's been lying this whole time, then it's over.
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post #145 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 01:48 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

I know you want to believe everything is OK, but the truth is- things are likely up and down with your marriage because she's waffling in and out of her relationship with this guy. It really does sound like you're rug sweeping again and letting her call the shots.

You need to take a VERY firm stance. This guy sent her private messages. You called it "harmless flirting" in your previous posts. There is NO harmless flirting with a spouse who has had an EA. You allowing this in your marriage is making you less attractive than the OM and right now you are competing with him for your wife's attention. Make no mistake, she's enjoying the attention of another man right under your nose while your marriage is fragile.

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post #146 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 02:03 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

At this point it sounds like you have given her the steering wheel of this marriage, she seems to be making all the decision as to the direction this marriage is taking...it certainly not even close to 50/50, she is certainly not taking ownership of her part of this mess, and she is blame shifting you....not sure if i were you i could take that...you must be a very patience man...I would tell her to call me when she is read to put our marriage on track and take ownership of her crap, and leave for a while.
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post #147 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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I know you want to believe everything is OK, but the truth is- things are likely up and down with your marriage because she's waffling in and out of her relationship with this guy. It really does sound like you're rug sweeping again and letting her call the shots.

You need to take a VERY firm stance. This guy sent her private messages. You called it "harmless flirting" in your previous posts. There is NO harmless flirting with a spouse who has had an EA. You allowing this in your marriage is making you less attractive than the OM and right now you are competing with him for your wife's attention. Make no mistake, she's enjoying the attention of another man right under your nose while your marriage is fragile.
Oh, I know things aren't ok. My marriage has been going up and down mainly because every time I see something strange I question her on it. If I don't get an answer or the answer doesn't make much sense, I make it clear that I'm not going to put up it. That was all discussed about a week ago when I questioned her on something and it led me to tell her that it was time to contact attorneys.

Unfortunately there will always be harmless flirting, it's part of business sometimes. What I made clear to her was that it's one thing to flirt a little in a public setting but a completely different thing to flirt in private either on the phone or through text.

Yes my marriage is fragile right now, but from what I have seen she's not in contact with the OM. Whether they really have broken all ties or if they're just taking a break right now until things cool down, I don't know, only time will tell that. And I'm not competing for anything right now. Other then saying hi or bye or talking about something regarding our son, I don't talk to her unless she initiates. And even then I say only what needs to be said and that's it. That has been working quite well, she does try to initiate move and more actual conversations which is one thing that she had stopped doing.
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post #148 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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At this point it sounds like you have given her the steering wheel of this marriage, she seems to be making all the decision as to the direction this marriage is taking...it certainly not even close to 50/50, she is certainly not taking ownership of her part of this mess, and she is blame shifting you....not sure if i were you i could take that...you must be a very patience man...I would tell her to call me when she is read to put our marriage on track and take ownership of her crap, and leave for a while.
She's always been a blame shifter, she's an attorney. Over the years I've tried every approach and it just blows up into a huge argument bringing up things I did to upset her 15 years ago. So far what I'm doing now is the first time I've seen an actual change in her. I know I jump to conclusions about things and can get pretty upset when we don't see eye to eye on things, I'm not an easy man to live with and I know that.

One of the problems with leaving the house until she gets her crap together is 1- I don't want to leave my son. It would hurt him too much and he's too young to really understand what's going on. 2- If I'm the one to leave and things don't work out, it discredits me in the divorce and cause me to pay more than I should. 3- Between still paying my share of the bills on our house and the added expense of an apartment, I wouldn't have much of a life with what's left and I don't feel that downgrading my life is worth trying to make a point and wait for her to make up her mind.
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post #149 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 02:26 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

Sounds like for now you're prepared to live life like a zombie for the next 12 years until he's 18 and then you'll bail. You'll regret it. And if you two have a sham of a marriage, he'll think that's normal and repeat.

If you're prepared to live another 12 years with her, you should have full access to her phone. You should be able to track her at any time. Go to MC weekly. Try to make it work.

How often are you two having sex?
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post #150 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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Sounds like for now you're prepared to live life like a zombie for the next 12 years until he's 18 and then you'll bail. You'll regret it. And if you two have a sham of a marriage, he'll think that's normal and repeat.

If you're prepared to live another 12 years with her, you should have full access to her phone. You should be able to track her at any time. Go to MC weekly. Try to make it work.

How often are you two having sex?
Well certainly not another 12 years, but at least through the summer. I've already told her that if things don't improve by September I'm done with it. The way I look it is the two of us spend the most time together doing things and having fun during the summer months, if we can't reconnect and regain some kind of normalcy in the marriage after that then it's never going to happen. As far as our son and pretty much everyone else, our marriage does look fairly normal. We don't hate each other and we don't fight, argue or treat each other badly in front of other people. Our son has heard us argue but he hasn't been around during the big fights. As far as sex.....before I confronted her last month it was 3-4 times a month, but that's pretty much been the norm since our son was born. Since the confrontation it's been none existent. Her excuse has been a person who she feels has her under constant surveillance all the time and jumps to conclusions over things the way I do isn't really a turn on. Again, it's only been a month since the confrontation and there have been some other arguments in between. But again, as things start to settle down, if that doesn't pick up again it will become an issue.
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