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post #121 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 09:37 AM
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Re: need your thoughts

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Originally Posted by AtMyEnd View Post
I find it kind of funny, people come to this forum to ask for advice and suggestions on how to possibly fix their broken marriage. It doesn't matter if it's just not getting along, an affair or whatever else, a lot of the posts I've read and my own are truly looking for help to try and fix things. Maybe it's just me but I truly feel that anything in a relationship can be fixed. One of my biggest issues in my current situation is that no matter how I present the question, my wife doesn't want to address our problems yet. From what I've seen, heard and heard from friends, she doesn't want to get a divorce. But she also doesn't want to talk to me about our problems, which is why I posted my story.

I wanted to try and get suggestions on how to get her to finally open up and talk about our problems together and possibly try and work things out. I know what she did, I know what I did, I know she doesn't seem to care, but I also know that she is a caring woman, a great mother and in general a good person. I've laid out everything here looking for some help, and all I seem to get is criticism. I've seen numerous comments of "just get a divorce" and all kinds of other negative non supportive comments. I know what happened so there's no reason to dig any deeper. What happened happened and I don't really care about that. I just want to see if we can repair the relationship and go from there.

It really seems like the only people here are angry bitter divorcees that not only failed in their own marriages but also either did nothing to work on them or just failed at trying to fix their relationships themselves. Why not share your experiences of what happened, what you did right or what you did wrong, things that may actually help people who post their problems here? Like I've said, I'm not naïve, I'm not gullible and I'm not stupid. I've done my investigating, I know what's happened and what's happening now in my relationship. I do still love my wife and mother of our son. It's because of him that I want to try and fix thing things and not just walk away. I've seen to many majorly screwed up kids that became that way because of divorce, and I don't want that for my son. But honestly a good majority of you people are pathetic. If you have nothing helpful to say, keep it to yourselves. For those of you who actually have some advice on how to get her to open up to me without threating her with divorce or spying on her to collect evidence to confront her with, let's here it. Please.
Just because you don't like the advice doesn't mean it is bad advice. Just because it isn't what you want to hear doesn't mean you shouldn't listen.

I have been thru way worse than you and I reconciled many years ago. FSJ isn't divorced either. So calling me a bitter divorced person is just another wrong assumption on your part.

It's great that you want to save your marriage. I get it. However, you must be willing to lose it if you want to save it. Everyday you stay in limbo your wife loses more respect for you. I have been here a long time helping out sad saps like yourself and you sir are getting played for the fool by your WW.

As far as sharing experiences......accepting limbo is as about as big as a mistake a BS can make.

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post #122 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 09:38 AM
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There is no other kind of advice because your wife is an ADULT and if she wanted to be a partner to you and work on what's wrong with your relationship SHE ALREADY WOULD BE DOING THAT.
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post #123 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 10:28 AM
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Re: need your thoughts

@AtMyEnd OK.... Let's see.

If you are as abrasive and as rude to your wife as you were here, then maybe I could see why your wife might not be willing to open up to you?

You might not be, and if you are not, that's good.

However, I would suggest counselling both as individuals and as a couple.

And see how that might work out for the betterment of both of you.

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post #124 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 12:00 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

@AtMyEnd:

You seem to have all the answers except for the ones you need.

A wise poster who once frequented this forum used to ask people if they were sick and tired of being sick and tired. Clearly you haven't reached that point yet.

Please let me know when you do because the advice I and many others are trying to give you will only be relevant and accepted when you reach that point.

Take care, brother.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #125 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

You know what? After reading comments here and on other threads, and articles and whatever on other sources, along with things the woman from my own EA said to my about my marriage, something just clicked. Enough already! It is time I stop worrying about all of this. I've realized that trying to fix my problems, going back to the little tings years and years ago, I've become "The Nice Guy". That never was me, I was never a bad guy, but I was never "The Nice Guy". As much as over the last year I haven't been holding things back, in some ways I've been pulling back way too much. Now don't take this the wrong way, I'm not filing for divorce.....just yet. But I'm also not going to live life worrying about what she thinks of me anymore either. I'm still going to see how things go with my marriage, but on my terms. I've made mistakes, said and done the wrong things at the wrong times, but who hasn't? She has made the same mistakes if not more. If she can't find a reason to want me for me, too bad. And if the divorce happens it happens, it really doesn't matter at this point anyway.
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post #126 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 03:16 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

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Well, It's good to know that we can tell someone to "shut your ****ing mouth" with impunity as we won't be breaking any rules.
Nope, what he said is not without consequences.

He's new to TAM and apparently does not know our rules, so I sent him a PM telling him that it's his one and only warning. And gave him a link of forum rules to read.

I was going to delete his post last night but several people had quoted it and told him off basically. So I left it up for now.

I put the profanity filter note on his post so that he also learns that rule while he's reading the rest of the rules.
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post #127 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 03:20 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

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Originally Posted by AtMyEnd View Post
You know what? After reading comments here and on other threads, and articles and whatever on other sources, along with things the woman from my own EA said to my about my marriage, something just clicked. Enough already! It is time I stop worrying about all of this. I've realized that trying to fix my problems, going back to the little tings years and years ago, I've become "The Nice Guy". That never was me, I was never a bad guy, but I was never "The Nice Guy". As much as over the last year I haven't been holding things back, in some ways I've been pulling back way too much. Now don't take this the wrong way, I'm not filing for divorce.....just yet. But I'm also not going to live life worrying about what she thinks of me anymore either. I'm still going to see how things go with my marriage, but on my terms. I've made mistakes, said and done the wrong things at the wrong times, but who hasn't? She has made the same mistakes if not more. If she can't find a reason to want me for me, too bad. And if the divorce happens it happens, it really doesn't matter at this point anyway.
Read the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It pretty much tells you how to turn this around. It's not easy. It could take a long time.
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post #128 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 11:27 PM
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Re: need your thoughts

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Originally Posted by AtMyEnd View Post
I find it kind of funny, people come to this forum to ask for advice and suggestions on how to possibly fix their broken marriage. It doesn't matter if it's just not getting along, an affair or whatever else, a lot of the posts I've read and my own are truly looking for help to try and fix things. Maybe it's just me but I truly feel that anything in a relationship can be fixed. One of my biggest issues in my current situation is that no matter how I present the question, my wife doesn't want to address our problems yet. From what I've seen, heard and heard from friends, she doesn't want to get a divorce. But she also doesn't want to talk to me about our problems, which is why I posted my story.

If divorce isn't on the table, what incentive does she have to open up? She's willing to live in limbo. You don't seem to be as willing.

And if the divorce happens it happens, it really doesn't matter at this point anyway.

So what do you have to lose?

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post #129 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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If divorce isn't on the table, what incentive does she have to open up? She's willing to live in limbo. You don't seem to be as willing.

And if the divorce happens it happens, it really doesn't matter at this point anyway.

So what do you have to lose?
What I have to lose is my family and all the time I spend with my son. We do a lot together and have a lot of fun and laughs. Though all the problems we've had, when I get upset and depressed to the point of giving up, it's always his face, smile, laughter and the time we spend together that makes me want to keep trying. I know it shouldn't be and I'm wrong for thinking this way but I am. He's a great kid, and I've seen what's happened to the kids of friends of ours who have gotten divorced. Even in the friendliest of divorces, it still effects young kids in a big way and I don't want that for my son.

Since everything has happened two weeks ago, things have improved. Our relationship is civil again, we're actually talking about random things and life in general more then we have in a very long time. We've been spending more time around each other and things have been good. I have still been monitoring her cell phone activity and there has been no contact with the other man. I, as well as others I've spoken to about this still don't feel that there was a physical affair, we all could be wrong but there is no real evidence of that at all.

I have decided to just start living life for me and just let things cool down. Like I said, at this point it really doesn't matter whether we get divorced now or see how things play out over the next couple months. I do have a problem with reacting to things, which is what seems to upset her and make her shut down and say nothing. Maybe some cool down time and then small conversations about individual problems will lead to a bigger conversation and her opening up. We did have a disconnect years ago that both of us realized but did nothing about, yes both of us have had and been caught for having EA's. I still feel that if we can just build our communication level back up that things can be worked out and resolved. Whether that resolution is divorce or staying together, we still need to build our relationship back up for our son's sake if for nothing else.
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post #130 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 09:25 AM
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Re: need your thoughts

@AtMyEnd

How do you intend to build the relationship? Do you have a plan?

Did you browse this plan? A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." T.R.

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Last edited by anchorwatch; 02-23-2017 at 10:53 AM.
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post #131 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 10:20 AM
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Re: need your thoughts

Read the post by Evinrude58 on Page 45 in Cam 42 thread
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post #132 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

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@AtMyEnd

How do you intend to build the relationship? Do you have a plan?

Did you browse this plan? A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
I think it was actually you who had given me the link to "No More Mister Nice Guy". As much as I have not read the entire thing yet, there is a lot there that I can relate and identify with....a lot. And one of the things I've realized is that this is what's become of me pretty much since my son was born 6 years ago. Now no it didn't happen all at once, but it started happening slowly.

My wife did have a rough pregnancy, 10 week bed rest prior to the birth and some depression afterward. I realized that me wanting to help her and prove that I was going to be a good father is what started my slide to be a "Nice Guy". As other problems came up I'd say or do things to try and fix them or make her feel better about them. When I didn't think those things were working I'd try something else. This trend continued and I became more and more focused on our relationship and trying to make her happy then I did on myself.

The funny thing that I realize now is that my wife has been telling me this exact thing the entire time but I just didn't understand it. I always just felt she was being critical of me. I mean why else would helping her out or putting things I wanted to get done aside so I could do something with or for the family. I didn't get it. And honestly the example stories in chapter 4 were my relationship to a tee. I tried to do what I thought she wanted, she would withdraw, and I would get upset she felt distant and would withdraw myself. It created a "perfect storm" on both sides of the relationship and just snowballed from there.

Now that our relationship is virtually non existent, the last year has been both of us looking for what we were missing that we once had. Now I still don't think that her affair ever was physical, for many reasons. But through all the years of both of us "trying" to fix things we were really just pushing things further apart. Can it now be fixed, the right way? I don't know, I don't think there is any one "right way" to do it. Do I think it's at least worth a try? Absolutely, we don't hate each other. In a group or family setting we're the almost perfect pair, we both still do agree that we work well together, that we love each other and that we care for each other, but we're just not "in love". So why not take some time, forget about any and all expectations of each other, live our lives and see what happens?

As far as a definite plan, I don't have one just yet. But I do feel that telling this to my wife, that I finally understand what she's been saying all these years, that will open the door to start finally trying to actively work through everything. And even if it doesn't work out, we've both basically been living in purgatory for the last year, what another couple months to see if it makes a difference?
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post #133 of 161 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 07:26 AM
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Re: need your thoughts

Taking care of yourself shouldn't mean "me first" it should mean "me too"...

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." T.R.

Be a better man... / ADHD and Marriage

Last edited by anchorwatch; 02-25-2017 at 07:52 AM.
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post #134 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

So just an update on things. The past couple weeks I've made the stance that I'm going to take back my life. Other than our problems, affairs and whatever else, what I've realized is that since our problems started I have slowly turned myself into "The Nice Guy". I've been trying to fix something that I don't have the tools to fix, and in doing so pushed us further apart. I have not withdrawn myself from the marriage or anything like that, but I have been putting my wants in front of hers.

Surprisingly over the last couple weeks I have seen a difference in her behavior, a positive one. Things almost seem normal again which is nice. I have not let my guard down at all and I don't plan to. As I've said before, there is conflicting evidence as to what has actually happened. As of now I have no real proof that anything ever turned physical, so if I want to try and move forward with things I need to treat it as nothing more than an EA the same as I had. If new information comes up that proves otherwise then I'll take it from there. I just don't see a point in staying angry or upset about something I don't know for sure and have no real way of proving. It's not healthy for me, what's left of my marriage, or my son.

That being said, we did finally have a conversation about what I found a few weeks back. It was a real conversation, no yelling, no raised voices, just an adult conversation. I said what I had to say, made my points, explained my feelings and left it at that. She did admit that she was wrong, said again how it never went further then a text, and explained that it was the lack of expectations to have to follow through with what she said in the texts that lead to them. She apologized again for what she did and I apologized again for the things I've done. As tense as things did feel during and after the conversation, within an hour it felt that all the tension was almost gone and conversations were normal, about everyday and random things.

Are all of our problems fixed, no. Do I trust her completely, no. Does she trust me completely, probably not. But it does feel like the air has been cleared and in the first time in a long time I have seen a real effort from her to work on things. Communication has improved, we've been spending more time with each other, mostly as a family, but it's still better then it's been. Like I've said, the last thing I want is a divorce, I do love her, I know she does love me, and I don't want to put my son through the pain of his parents splitting up, so I'm just going to roll on from here. I'm going to keep my guard up, address any issues or questions that come up instead of jumping to conclusions and accusations, and we'll just see what comes from it.
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post #135 of 161 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: need your thoughts

Ok, so another update on my situation. This past weekend I was going to a friends with our son, she didn't want to go saying she was exhausted from work and just wanted to go to the gym, go home to take a bath and just pass out. I had no problem with this, I didn't really want her coming to begin with. I extended the invitation to her just to show that I wasn't trying to exclude her from my life.

That being said, something just didn't feel right for some reason. Nothing had happened and there was no real trigger for it, but something just felt off. My son and I were going to a friends house that was more than an hour drive from my house so she knew I wouldn't be home until very late. So I planted a VAR in the bedroom and asked a good friend of mine who knows the situation to pass by the house around 9:00-9:30. I told him to just take a look for any cars that looked out of place and gave him the description of the man who she had been texting with's car.

When we got to my friends place I texted her that we made it there safe and asked her how the gym was. She replied back that she didn't go to the gym and was going over to a friends house to watch a movie and relax. So my plan A had been foiled, time for plan B. I text my friend who was going to pass my house and tell him this and give him the friends address and ask if he'd pass by there and see if the car was there. He says no problem and I go about my night. Around 9:00 he texts me, her car isn't there. I text him back asking if he's sure, the house is on a hill and there's a long driveway so I ask him if he's sure the car wasn't at the top of the driveway. He says he's not sure and it's possible and he's going to go back. 15 minutes later another text from him "Definitely not there". Now I'm pissed but trying not to show it. I had sent my wife a picture of our son with all my friends kids earlier in the night because she had asked me to but she hadn't responded to the text. A little while later my friends wife says to me, her not knowing about any of this, that she must have gone home and fallen right to sleep because she hadn't replied to any of her texts. So now the blood is boiling, lol.

I finally get a text from her asking how my nights going and that she's heading home shortly. I say fine and ask her how the movie was. She tells me the name of the movie they watched, that they sat around having "girl talk" and told me about a conversation that she had with her friends two daughters. So I'm about to blow up at this point because I know it's all a lie, I know she was never at the friends house. So I text back something like "sounds fun" and I go on with my night. A little while later she texts that she had just gotten home, and then texts me "Thank you handsome", I had left a wrapped bottle of wine and bubble bath on the counter for her when I left for the night, I thought it would be a nice little gesture. Then she texts asking what time we're leaving to head home and say I'm not sure yet. Then another asking if we're sleeping there and I say no. So now my head is going even more, why all these questions about when I'm coming home?

So we get home about 2 hours after all that and she's asleep, I put my son to sleep and walk into our room. No movement from her at the sound of me walking around the room so I walk over and look at her phone. I don't know the code so all I can see is the closed home screen but I can see that there is a WhatsApp message from about an hour ago, so now I'm pissed again. I lay down and try to fall asleep but can't. She wakes up at one point, we start talking about our nights and she asks me what's wrong? So I tell her that something had felt off about the night so when I got home I looked at her phone and saw a message there. I asked her who it was from and if she was still talking to him. She said no and she looked at the phone and said the message was from her uncle, but still refuses to show me the phone. I'm tired and don't want to get into it so I go to sleep.

The next night we go out for a friends birthday and she has way too much to drink. I had been doing some research earlier that day on ways to possibly get into her phone and look around myself, and I found one. When we got home that night she passed out almost immediately. Being that I had had a few drinks myself, I guess my beer muscles kicked in so I grabbed the phone and got it unlocked. I took it downstairs and started looking through everything. I looked at Whatsapp first since I knew that was how she was communicating with the guy, nothing there. I was relieved, I knew that even if she had been deleting the messages if there were any, that she was too drunk that night to have been able to think about deleting them, and I hadn't even seen her look at her phone in hours. So I start looking through texts with the friend she said she was with Friday night. Well it turns out that they were together but they went out to a restaurant together, I even found a selfie of the two of them. So know I'm thinking, why lie about where she was? It didn't make any sense. They went to a restaurant that we go to frequently and many of our friends go to so I know she wouldn't have had him meet them there, it was too risky. So why lie? I also found a lot of texts with other friends about the situation with this other guy and everything did point to the fact that nothing ever happened and it was just a text, so unless she's lying to everyone, even her closest friends, I do believe that nothing happened outside of the texts. But it still bothers me, why lie about where she had been?

So Monday morning the texts start, accusing me of having a GPS on her car. I tell her that I don't and she basically calls me a liar. She knew I had gotten a GPS tracker a while back because she found it while snooping around. So I tell her where it is in the house and to go look for herself. Then she accuses me of getting another one so that I can show her the one and make her think there's nothing on the car when there really is. I tell her she's acting ridiculous and there's nothing on the car. So now I'm thinking, she knows that I know she wasn't where she said she was Friday night, but how? So then she starts bringing up old arguments and accusing me of telling all of my friends that she had an affair. I tell her that I haven't told anyone that she had an affair, yes I've talked to some friends about our problems but not about that. So at the same time as her texting me all these accusations, I'm texting with another friend about all this and what she's saying. My friends response to all this, she's baiting you. She's trying to get you to snap and admit to spying on her, drop the conversation right now. So I tell my wife that this is all ridiculous and exactly what we both agreed we wouldn't do anymore and that if she wants to talk about us and our relationship later tonight I will but I'm done with all this right now, it's just stupid. She sent a couple texts after that but I didn't respond.

When I got home that night, before her, I took the GPS, put it in it's box and left it on her night table. When she got home I tried to avoid her, I said hi to her but that was pretty much it. As the night went on she did talk to me a little and I would answer her but that was it, I stayed away from conversations. Later that night when I went upstairs I noticed that the box with the GPS in it was gone. Honestly I don't care where it is but I know she saw it and that I silently proved her wrong about her accusations.

Since then things have been civil around the house, we were even joking around and laughing about something the other night, something that hasn't happened in a while. But it still bothers me, why did she lie about Friday night when it was something so innocent? Why all the accusations about everything? Is she testing me to see if she can piss me off to the point of admitting to spying and knowing more than I'm letting on that I know? It's just bizarre.
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