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post #31 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No need for physical contact?

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How much quality time do you two get without the kids? And does she go from work to pick up the kids and manage all of their afterschool stuff (homework, snacks, driving to practices, packing lunches, etc.)? Do you two go on dates? Do you talk 1:1 with her?

For many women, feeling turned on really starts outside the bedroom.
True and good point. We don't get any quality time without the kids except for maybe once every couple months we'll get out to dinner without them. Only one is in school and I get her lunch ready and get her to the bus. I grocery shop, cook, fix snacks, put them to bed with her help as our twins are a handful. The divide between us is making us avoid each other. I'm not kidding when I get blamed for every single thing wrong that happens. Even when she goes out I sorta worry because it's a crazy world out there and I would like a text message once in a while.

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post #32 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:15 PM
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In my opinion you are doing too much. Marriage should be 50/50. She's taking advantage and has relegated you to doormat status. Your passivity hasn't helped.

Read "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF download.

Go online and check your phone bill
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post #33 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:21 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

I'm taking a class called "The Science of Happiness". Taught out of UC Berkley, available for free on the website edx.org. I really encourage everybody who is interested in understanding themselves, their partners and humanity better to take it.

We just finished a section on physical touch.

Turns out we NEED it. The joy hormone oxytocin is released any time we touch another human - unless there's a reason to fear them, e.g., sleazy looking guy in a dark alley. The US and Britain have become lawsuit-happy and touch is rare.

The professors reported a study in which they observed pairs of people interacting at coffeehouses. They focused on couples that appeared not to be romantically involved, but just friends, and included same-sex friends and opposite-sex friends. How often did they touch? In Britain and the US, never. In France, 80 times per hour. In Puerto Rico, 150 times per hour. They didn't list statistics for elsewhere, but claimed the US, Britain and Germany were the only three places they could expect that in an hour, people might not touch.

The power of touch was first noticed in the 1940s...premature babies are known to have poor immune systems. Therefore, they'd be placed in incubators, fed through IV tubes, and nobody could touch them for fear of infection. The mortality rate was 90%. At some point, one hospital said "these poor newborns are only going to live a few weeks anyway, let's comfort them by holding them. Nurses began holding the babies, and the mortality rate dropped to 10%.

Thus, touch is literally "the touch of life".

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
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post #34 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:24 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

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My wife has made it clear that she doesn't need or want sex anymore. Not even physical touch, I don't understand it. I'm very giving and patient, soft, gentle, firm whatever...but she can't even tell me what feels good and she literally just lays there without a moan or word. We've been married 18 years and the last 4 have been awful in the bedroom. I'm feeling such a heavy depression because I feel like the ugliest guy in the world. We split up house work, both have good jobs, a house and wonderful children. I've told her so many times how I feel, even come right out and have said "I need you, today, maybe tonight after kids go to bed"? She always seems to dodge me. Everyone says affair but I really have no way of knowing. I don't know what the hell to do.
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we are both 40. I'm snipped and she has a ring so no more kids here. She's super critical of me eventhough I bust my ass trying to balance work, home, kids. It's like, all the work would totally be worth it if we could just get it on once in a while.
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We both have decent careers, she actually makes more and has better hours. Home at 3:30, summers off, etc. Her hormones are supposedly normal according to her bloodwork. If she allows herself to be loved she can get really turned on by me. She doesn't do it herself, from what she's said.
To answer the first question, What you should do is go out and buy yourself a very nice Fly fishing Rod. The potential for time use in that hobby is pretty much unlimited. You will have to learn technique and biology and maybe even extend into tying. There will always be need for more money for tools and supplies and trips. There will always be some hobby work to do that needs quiet time.

Second quote: Super critical means she is looking for thing to find wrong. That indicates either a adversarial mindset, or a competitive one. Competitive you can deal with. Adversarial well she is just trying to find a big enough fight to break up over.

Third quote. This can lead to two outcomes. One is that competitive thing. She is constantly trying to prove that she is better than you. You don't strike me as a one upper so maybe you celebrate her victories with her. The other possibility is Loss of respect. This will be the death of attraction. If she is thinking "He can't even keep up with me, what kind of a man is he?" then she will not be attracted to you in any way.

So what does this have to do with buying a fishing pole? First it gives you a place where you can excel with out threatening her. Second it gives you an excuse to get a fair share of the "out of the house away from the kids" time, and that equal sharing makes you look stronger. And last it makes you interesting. It makes you more than her support staff. It gives you depth. These things build attraction. Now fly fishing is certainly not the only activity that could serve those ends. Many of the men here indulge in hobbies of many kinds. Find something that need significant time and investment. But don't choose something with a fixed schedule. I see that time struggle as the big battle here. She isn't going to want to return your weekends to you.
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post #35 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:31 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

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Eh, maybe. He should certainly verify, but the energy issue isn't necessarily a thing.

People have time and energy for things they want and prioritize.....just like when people say they don't have time or energy to exercise it's usually because it isn't a priority to them.

Sex with him isn't something she wants or prioritizes.

Why that's the case is another matter.
QFT.

Read this several times, OP.

Those who want to find a way.

Those who don't find excuses.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #36 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:59 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

So she goes on girls night out while you stay home with the kids, and you don't go out with the guys ever? And you don't go out as a couple? She's a cold fish in bed, tells you she doesn't want sex ever, and refuses to discuss it? She has no medical issues barring sex, is fit and attractive?

You need to see a lawyer stat and have D papers done up and tell her that she either stops the GNO and figures out what's wrong with her in the bedroom, or you're gone. End of story. You're being FAR too nice here, dude.

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.

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post #37 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 03:03 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

Napster,

Your wife isn't too tired for sex, she doesn't want to have sex with you. Much of the reason for that lies in her 'super critical' comments. Sounds like a big respect issue.

The only chance of fixing your sex life, is by fixing your marriage. And that requires you to be brutally honest about you, her and the dynamic between you. It will be a painful process. But it is the only process.



Quote:
Originally Posted by napsternova View Post
we are both 40. I'm snipped and she has a ring so no more kids here. She's super critical of me eventhough I bust my ass trying to balance work, home, kids. It's like, all the work would totally be worth it if we could just get it on once in a while.
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post #38 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 03:07 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

What is a 'ring' and, if it's birth control, why does she have one if you're snipped????

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.

Our R
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post #39 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 03:10 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

Physical contact produces the hormone Oxytocin whose job is to emotionally bond you to your wife. No contact, no emotional bonding and you end up living your life as either two friends or two people who tolerate each other for the sake of the children or to avoid the hassle of a divorce and all that goes with it. Last time my wife said that she did not want sex so much anymore, I told her that I can understand her reasons but I assume it meant that I could find it elsewhere. She knows that I can and have done so before so we now have sex once or twice a week which is pretty good for senior citizens.

I might stay with a wife like yours if I liked her and she liked me but I would tell her that I have sexual needs that if not met, will force me to leave or at best, cheat on her. So it would be to our advantage to open up the relationship to prevent us from parting.

Many prefer to drown in a pool of their own morality rather than seek the safety of a different morality when the choice is monogamy or your marriage.
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post #40 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 03:12 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

this has affair written all over it.

You need to come home from work, change into your nicest duds and just leave. Come home about 1/2 an hour after you normally come to bed. Don't tell her where you are going or what you are doing. Do whatever you like, see movie, watch the NCAA tourney, whatever. Her reaction will tell you what you need to know.

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post #41 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 03:21 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

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True and good point. We don't get any quality time without the kids except for maybe once every couple months we'll get out to dinner without them. Only one is in school and I get her lunch ready and get her to the bus. I grocery shop, cook, fix snacks, put them to bed with her help as our twins are a handful. The divide between us is making us avoid each other. I'm not kidding when I get blamed for every single thing wrong that happens. Even when she goes out I sorta worry because it's a crazy world out there and I would like a text message once in a while.
I'd start here. A woman needs her husband's time, attention, and conversation in order to feel "in love" and want to have sex with him. How old are your twins? They are too young for school? And your wife works full-time? Sounds like overwhelm to me. You're doing a lot to help ease the burden for sure, but without quality time, that's not enough to meet her emotional needs (though it is enough to show her you're pulling your weight and expect to have your needs met too).
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post #42 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 03:22 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

You complain that there is no sexual intimacy between you and your wife. But there is no non-sexual intimacy either. And that does not seem to phase you. Most women need a good amount of non-sexual intimacy to desire sex. What is non-sexual intimacy? It's spending time together, just the two of you to doing things where you are focused on each other.. AKA quality time and dating.

It takes a minimum of 15 hours a week of quality time to keep the bond strong, and thus passion strong, in a marriage.

The connection/bond between the two of you is broken. There are two books that help you figure out how to rebuild it in your marriage.

"Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs"

Read them in that order, do the work that they say to do.

Then sit your wife down and tell her that you will not live in a marriage where there is no intimacy... that's both non-sexual and sexual intimacy. Ask her to read the books and do the work with you.
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post #43 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No need for physical contact?

It is really hard to get her attention anymore. She's so consumed with her skincare "side business" that time doesn't even exist. We have a therapy session tonight. I'm trying to figure out how to say wtf? This really sucks, all day long I think about what the heck can fix our situation and get back to being happy with one another. When she initiates a conversation, I drop what I'm doing to give her my full attention but when I start a convo she hardly listens. So preoccupied with anything other then me. As far as importance goes, kids, bills, side business, but whoops, I didn't make the list.
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post #44 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 04:41 PM
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Re: No need for physical contact?

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It is really hard to get her attention anymore. She's so consumed with her skincare "side business" that time doesn't even exist. We have a therapy session tonight. I'm trying to figure out how to say wtf? This really sucks, all day long I think about what the heck can fix our situation and get back to being happy with one another. When she initiates a conversation, I drop what I'm doing to give her my full attention but when I start a convo she hardly listens. So preoccupied with anything other then me. As far as importance goes, kids, bills, side business, but whoops, I didn't make the list.
Use therapy time tonight to talk about how you want to come up with a plan to schedule 20 hours/week of quality time with her, and brainstorm fun things you two can do together, as well as childcare logistics. Dr. Harley in His Needs, Her Needs says that it takes 20 hours of quality time a week to fall back in love with your spouse. In fact, he won't even counsel couples who say they can't make this time because no matter what else you do, it simply won't work if you two aren't getting enough fun time together to meet the most important intimate needs: conversation, recreational companionship, affection, and sex. I understand you can't get your wife on board yet with the last 2, but you might find that within weeks of spending fun time together like you did while you were dating, you two fall back in love and your wife will once again be interested in having sex with you.

* also want to add that now may not be the right time for a side business. Your wife has a full-time job and young twins and another child in school. No wonder she doesn't have any time left for you! I'd discuss this issue with your MC as well. You need to agree on adding any extra activities and it sounds like her plate is already completely full without adding a side business.
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post #45 of 95 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Use therapy time tonight to talk about how you want to come up with a plan to schedule 20 hours/week of quality time with her, and brainstorm fun things you two can do together, as well as childcare logistics. Dr. Harley in His Needs, Her Needs says that it takes 20 hours of quality time a week to fall back in love with your spouse. In fact, he won't even counsel couples who say they can't make this time because no matter what else you do, it simply won't work if you two aren't getting enough fun time together to meet the most important intimate needs: conversation, recreational companionship, affection, and sex. I understand you can't get your wife on board yet with the last 2, but you might find that within weeks of spending fun time together like you did while you were dating, you two fall back in love and your wife will once again be interested in having sex with you.
I am going to take this advice and run with it. Thank you so much!
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