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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 07:36 PM
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Re: Need advice

@shaleen, From your name and your style of English I would guess that you are in India? (You remind me of many Indian people I know, I live in a part of the UK with a fairly high number of Indian people, in fact I am married to a girl from an Indian family. )

I am sorry but divorce, I think, is indicated as the solution in your case.



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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 12:09 AM
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Re: Need advice

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
You cant fix her, only she can. Have you even apologised to your first wife and child for what you did to them?

100% correct only she can change it...
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 05:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need advice

I have apologise my first wife ..Not by words but with every passing moment in my thoughts.


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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 09:25 AM
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Re: Need advice

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I have apologise my first wife ..Not by words but with every passing moment in my thoughts.


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How is she supposed to know what you are thinking? Thats a cop out.You need to apologise to her and your child in person, or at the very least in a letter. You are now facing the consequences of your appalling actions and choices.
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need advice

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How is she supposed to know what you are thinking? Thats a cop out.You need to apologise to her and your child in person, or at the very least in a letter. You are now facing the consequences of your appalling actions and choices.
I have. I met my kid and my ex and we discuss lot. Last night last after everyone's suggestion , I show her all and as everyone has suggested to divorce , my ex still have me suggestion that I should try best to maintain the relation with my wife. My ex says always that my wife is too young blood and I should give her time till she is mature enough .My wife loves me lot and is caring but she just don't tolerate anyone from my family and my ex and kid. Maybe it's because they still love my ex and have not kept any relation with my wife. But she has not given them any scope as she is clear that they are welcome only if they break all contact with my ex and kid.

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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 12:09 PM
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Re: Need advice

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I have. I met my kid and my ex and we discuss lot. Last night last after everyone's suggestion , I show her all and as everyone has suggested to divorce , my ex still have me suggestion that I should try best to maintain the relation with my wife. My ex says always that my wife is too young blood and I should give her time till she is mature enough .My wife loves me lot and is caring but she just don't tolerate anyone from my family and my ex and kid. Maybe it's because they still love my ex and have not kept any relation with my wife. But she has not given them any scope as she is clear that they are welcome only if they break all contact with my ex and kid.

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Anyone who tries to get you to stop seeing you own child is very cruel.
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need advice

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I have. I met my kid and my ex and we discuss lot. Last night last after everyone's suggestion , I show her all and as everyone has suggested to divorce , my ex still have me suggestion that I should try best to maintain the relation with my wife. My ex says always that my wife is too young blood and I should give her time till she is mature enough .My wife loves me lot and is caring but she just don't tolerate anyone from my family and my ex and kid. Maybe it's because they still love my ex and have not kept any relation with my wife. But she has not given them any scope as she is clear that they are welcome only if they break all contact with my ex and kid.

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My wifes advisers / friends says her she is right... I am betraying her by meeting without telling her and she should leave me..
My adviser will say I am right and both give advice to divorce

But truth is that she may like these soothing advices in her favour and so do I , but truth is that she just do not want divorce but want things to go her way completely and I want some space and freedom to meet my kid n mother and sister.
And without listening to both sides , a person cannot be in a position to give the best advice.

Until we come to a suitable agreement and arrangement , we will keep fighting and will never be in peace.

I am waiting for the day she will mend a little bit And she expect me to mend to her wish ,But it's almost impossible for me to

And I said asked my wife to ask and took opinion from anyone neutral ..telling that u hate my mother and kid and my mother hates you , and so you dont want me to meet them ...Will anyone say u are right .. .
Why she comes between relationship of my mother with me.

She said she agrees that she is bad and wrong but she is like this only and she can't change...She can never happily allow me to meet any of them.

I said ok then u won't ever be in peace and this will continue forever.

I think she has left no option but to divorce .

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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 01:58 PM
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Re: Need advice

sounds like you dropped you good first wife for a real winner!
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 04:21 PM
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Re: Need advice

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Originally Posted by shaleen View Post
My wifes advisers / friends says her she is right... I am betraying her by meeting without telling her and she should leave me..
My adviser will say I am right and both give advice to divorce

But truth is that she may like these soothing advices in her favour and so do I , but truth is that she just do not want divorce but want things to go her way completely and I want some space and freedom to meet my kid n mother and sister.
And without listening to both sides , a person cannot be in a position to give the best advice.

Until we come to a suitable agreement and arrangement , we will keep fighting and will never be in peace.

I am waiting for the day she will mend a little bit And she expect me to mend to her wish ,But it's almost impossible for me to

And I said asked my wife to ask and took opinion from anyone neutral ..telling that u hate my mother and kid and my mother hates you , and so you dont want me to meet them ...Will anyone say u are right .. .
Why she comes between relationship of my mother with me.

She said she agrees that she is bad and wrong but she is like this only and she can't change...She can never happily allow me to meet any of them.

I said ok then u won't ever be in peace and this will continue forever.

I think she has left no option but to divorce .

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Its not your mother or ex I am concerned about so much, its a woman who tries to stop you seeing your only child. That is downright mean.
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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 09:37 PM
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Re: Need advice

How old are you, your wife and ex-wife?


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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need advice

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How old are you, your wife and ex-wife?


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I am 41 my ex wife is 40 and my wife is 27

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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 02:34 PM
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Re: Need advice

SHORT RESPONSE: Shaleen, you are describing classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I therefore suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your child are dealing with in this 27-year-old woman. If your W is a BPDer, it is extremely unlikely her behavior will improve.

LONG RESPONSE: Shaleen, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, controlling demands that isolate you away from family, easily triggered temper tantrums, verbal and physical abuse, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it. Only a professional can tell you whether those behavioral symptoms are so severe as to meet the diagnostic threshold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaleen View Post
My wife's nature is over possessive and over jealous.
As @EleGirl stated at the beginning of this thread (post 7), you are describing a woman who "is scared she is going to lose you." Your W exhibits a strong fear of abandonment, which is one of the nine BPD symptoms. The very first symptom on the list of 9 defining traits is "Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment." See 9 BPD Traits at NIMH.

BPDers (i.e., those with strong and persistent traits) have such a strong fear of losing their partners that they mistakenly see abandonment threats where they don't even exist. My BPDer exW, for example, felt threatened when I would spend time around my own family members.

In her distorted perception, she thought I was choosing them over her whenever I spent time with them. And she hated my adult foster son. Moreover, she saw abandonment threats in other harmless actions: my walking a few feet ahead of her on a narrow sidewalk or my looking at another woman for a second instead of a half-second.

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She is very short temper, ill behaving, and abusive.
The key feature of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions. Indeed, this is such a central characteristic of BPD that a large share of the psychiatric community have been lobbying for two decades to change the name of this disorder to "Emotional Regulation Disorder."

Like young children, BPDers throw temper tantrums and hissy fits (typically lasting a few hours) and sulking (which can last a day or two). It is believed that BPDers behave this way because -- due to heredity and/or childhood abuse or abandonment before age five -- their emotional development froze at the level of a four year old.

This frozen emotional development usually will be seen only by the few people who have drawn very close to the BPDer. The vast majority of BPDers generally get along fine with business associates, clients, casual friends, and complete strangers.

None of those people pose a threat to the abandonment fear because there is no close relationship that can be abandoned. And none of them pose a threat to the BPDer's fear of engulfment because there is no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of being engulfed and controlled. This is why it is common for many full-blown BPDers to excel in demanding professions, becoming excellent doctors, teachers, and social workers -- but going home at night to abuse the very people who love them.

Quote:
My ex says always that my wife is too young blood and I should give her time till she is mature enough.
If your W really is a BPDer, your exW likely has no idea how young this 27-year-old woman is. As I noted above, a BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old. As to you giving your W time "till she is mature enough," it is extremely unlikely that will happen if she is a BPDer.

Quote:
I am waiting for the day she will mend a little bit.
If she is a BPDer, you likely will see her "mending a little" every 6 to 8 weeks. Indeed, you likely will see dramatic improvements in her behavior about that often. This is the way emotionally unstable people behave. Like many smokers who are always "quitting" every two months, BPDers typically exhibit dramatic improvements periodically. What you're seeing, however, is not a lasting improvement but -- instead -- just another temporary upswing in the unending roller coaster ride.

As to a lasting improvement, there are excellent treatment programs available in many major cities. They teach BPDers the emotional skills they had no opportunity to learn in early childhood. But, sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to seek therapy and stay in it long enough -- several years at least -- to make a real difference.

To do well in therapy, a BPDer must have sufficient self awareness to see that she has serious behavioral issues that are undermining her relationship. She must also have sufficient ego strength to be willing to work hard in therapy for many years. I've not yet seen any statistics on it but my best guess is that perhaps 1% of BPDers have both the self awareness and ego strength that are required.

Quote:
Until we come to a suitable agreement and arrangement , we will keep fighting and will never be in peace.
If she is a BPDer, coming to "a suitable agreement" usually achieves nothing. A BPDer's bad behavior -- like that seen in young children -- is driven by feelings and fears so intense that they distort her perceptions of your intentions and motivations. (Importantly, they do not distort her perceptions of physical reality, which is why BPDers typically are not "psychotic" or "insane.")

The result is that a BPDer's perception of you and your "agreements" is dictated by whatever intense feeling she is experiencing at this very moment. This is why it is common for BPDers to "rewrite history" in their minds, adopting a new view of whatever agreements they accepted a week earlier. They may be convinced that no such agreement occurred. Or they may now feel that they somehow were coerced into the agreement and it therefore has no validity. A BPDer's current feelings are so intense that she is convinced they MUST be true.

Quote:
She fights and beats me and I end-up beating her to stop her beating me.
The physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

If your W is a BPDer, she carries enormous anger and hurt inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. As I noted above, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

Quote:
My present wife love me.
Unlike narcissists and sociopaths, BPDers are able to love passionately and intensely. But that love is the immature type of love seen in young children. It is not sufficient to sustain a mature adult relationship. Hence, if you W is a BPDer, you essentially have a parent/child relationship, not a husband/wife relationship.

Quote:
She start saying she will have extra marital affair and start asking me to pledge this and that and never stops until I agreed to whatever are her demands.
If she is a BPDer, her demands and controlling behavior will NOT stop when you meet her demands. Her fear of abandonment is so great that it is impossible to convince her you will never stop loving her. Because a BPDer is filled with self loathing and low self esteem, she lives in fear that you will eventually walk away when you discover how empty she is on the inside.

The result is that, whenever you meet one of her demands, she will simply replace it with another demand that is intended to test your love. But the new demand usually will be worse than the previous one. She will raise the hoop higher when insisting that you jump through it again. And again. And again.

Quote:
Need advice.
Given your ambivalence about divorcing her, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your child are dealing with. I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy).

At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as irrational jealousy, physical abuse, and temper tantrums.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although it is easy to spot BPD warning signs, only a professional can determine whether those symptoms are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., remaining in a toxic marriage or running into the arms of another woman just like her. They may also help you decide whether the situation warrants your spending the money to see a psychologist.

I therefore suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a quick look at my list at 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to join @JohnA, @MattMatt, @EleGirl, @Farsidejunky, and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Shaleen.
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