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post #211 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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Please do not get yourself in debt for an MBA. It may not pay off.
Yeah, that has been my calculus up 'til now.

However, I think that, regardless, I'm going to have to invest in a substantial amount of school/training if I ever want to again have the sort of career I left behind. I've been trying to think of some kind of business I could start, but I just haven't landed on any financially viable ideas.

So now the calculus is more based around me being able to support myself (and my son) while giving me a way to both be away from the house more and to live a more independent life. While the investment may not pay off in the long run, it would give me the opportunity to do something that actually earns me respect, from myself and from others. It would allow me to feel like 'a man' again, instead of the pathetic loser I've become.

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I do not think it is healthy to try to appear stoic, or really "appear" anything. Being yourself and being honest about your struggles, while taking constructive steps to improve your situation, is much healthier.
This is one case where I think that 'faking it until you make it' might be the best course of action.

My feeling sorry for myself, feeling down, feeling stressed, feeling emasculated, feeling lost, whatever, is MY problem, not anyone else's. No one wants to deal with that crap, nor should they. I have made a concerted effort to keep all that stuff to myself, and it has certainly improved my relationships with others (the few I have left, lol).

It's the 'constructive steps' that have been stymieing me. I haven't determined a lot of good solutions, so it's best not to share a problem until I can also share my solution to that problem.

It's like the old management saying, "Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions!" Everyone else has their own problems they are trying to solve, they don't need me bringing additional problems into their lives.

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I get the sense that you are in despair, and I just do not see any reason to be. Is it the lack of sex that is causing this?
I would say that a lack of sex (and intimacy) certainly contributed/contributes to that, but it's more than that. I would say that my having lost respect - for myself and from others - is the core issue.

My wife isn't particularly interested in having sex with me because I give her no reason to respect me (and plenty of reasons to be contemptuous of me). All the marriage books in the world won't address that core problem, which is why she has little interest in them. I need to be a man worth respecting, a valuable man, before she is going to be authentically interested in our marriage again.

How I go about becoming a valuable man again at this point, without doing further damage to myself and my family and digging myself deeper into the 'narcissistic loser' hole is my challenge. I'm tired of being a disappointment and need to figure out how I can start winning at life again. And at this point in my life, I need some big wins to get back on top.

But, as I said earlier, I'm going to start with what I can do right now - not holding back from being the best husband I can be (emotionally if not materially). I'm going to be the kind of husband *I* want to be, not for my wife, but for my own sense of integrity. Yeah, it can hurt when I put myself out there and get rejected or feel emasculated or embarrassed, but I'm doing it for me, not for anyone else.


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post #212 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:11 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

I'm beginning to believe if a spouse says you're needy, the spouse doesn't love you as much as he or she should. After what I've been through, I'd love to have a husband who "needs" to be around me because the alternative hurts when they say they "have to get out of the house" every single Saturday. While all experts say we can't depend on others for our happiness, it's a human trait to want to connect with another person even if it's just as best friends. After 20 yrs of marriage, I'm beginning to really believe that marriage ruins any friendship that was present at the beginning.
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post #213 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:13 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

In the last month, I've started getting into meditation and found a great video. It does help. Clears your mind and kind of recharges your mental batteries, so to speak.
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post #214 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:16 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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I'm beginning to believe if a spouse says you're needy, the spouse doesn't love you as much as he or she should.
Not everyone has the emotional strength to bear that kind of weight in a relationship. I know I could not.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #215 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:23 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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Originally Posted by Dazedconfuzed View Post
Yeah, that has been my calculus up 'til now.

However, I think that, regardless, I'm going to have to invest in a substantial amount of school/training if I ever want to again have the sort of career I left behind. I've been trying to think of some kind of business I could start, but I just haven't landed on any financially viable ideas.

So now the calculus is more based around me being able to support myself (and my son) while giving me a way to both be away from the house more and to live a more independent life. While the investment may not pay off in the long run, it would give me the opportunity to do something that actually earns me respect, from myself and from others. It would allow me to feel like 'a man' again, instead of the pathetic loser I've become.
You are not a pathetic loser. You have some challenges, but don't we all?

I really do not want to see you get in debt. Just not sure MBAs and certain other degrees are paying off like they may have at one time.

@farsidejunky You finished your MBA a few years ago, right? Has it helped you get a better job?

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This is one case where I think that 'faking it until you make it' might be the best course of action.

My feeling sorry for myself, feeling down, feeling stressed, feeling emasculated, feeling lost, whatever, is MY problem, not anyone else's. No one wants to deal with that crap, nor should they. I have made a concerted effort to keep all that stuff to myself, and it has certainly improved my relationships with others (the few I have left, lol).

It's the 'constructive steps' that have been stymieing me. I haven't determined a lot of good solutions, so it's best not to share a problem until I can also share my solution to that problem.

It's like the old management saying, "Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions!" Everyone else has their own problems they are trying to solve, they don't need me bringing additional problems into their lives.
Yes, your feelings are ultimately your responsibility. You are the one who is feeling them, after all. And it has got to be hard to not feel valued by your wife.

Well, I would not lie to myself in any way. And I would try to be as honest as possible with my partner, too. I want to believe that somehow there is a way through this that does not include divorce.

Quote:
I would say that a lack of sex (and intimacy) certainly contributed/contributes to that, but it's more than that. I would say that my having lost respect - for myself and from others - is the core issue.

My wife isn't particularly interested in having sex with me because I give her no reason to respect me (and plenty of reasons to be contemptuous of me). All the marriage books in the world won't address that core problem, which is why she has little interest in them. I need to be a man worth respecting, a valuable man, before she is going to be authentically interested in our marriage again.

How I go about becoming a valuable man again at this point, without doing further damage to myself and my family and digging myself deeper into the 'narcissistic loser' hole is my challenge. I'm tired of being a disappointment and need to figure out how I can start winning at life again. And at this point in my life, I need some big wins to get back on top.

But, as I said earlier, I'm going to start with what I can do right now - not holding back from being the best husband I can be (emotionally if not materially). I'm going to be the kind of husband *I* want to be, not for my wife, but for my own sense of integrity. Yeah, it can hurt when I put myself out there and get rejected or feel emasculated or embarrassed, but I'm doing it for me, not for anyone else.
How about doing some of those things she has asked of you, like the projects around the house?

You do have to find your own emotional center. I know, it is hard for some of us. I would have to do it, too, without Dug's help, if something were to happen to him. Ultimately we have to rely on ourselves.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #216 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:12 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

@jld, I don't think doing things around the house is going to help his wife develop feelings of love for him, which she seems to be missing. He's already covered how he spends his non-working time caring for the household and their son.

I think at this point, Dazed is not going to be in a position to get more from his wife until he feels more confident in himself. Do I have that right, Dazed? And in order to feel more confident, you're going after a career that will provide for the family, correct?

Is there any chance your part-time work can go to full-time? I'm sure this is something you've considered, but a while back you mentioned that your part-time job pays well, so it must be that you're skilled in that industry, right? Any chance you can leverage that to interview for a full-time position out of the house?
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post #217 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:25 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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@jld, I don't think doing things around the house is going to help his wife develop feelings of love for him, which she seems to be missing. He's already covered how he spends his non-working time caring for the household and their son.

I think at this point, Dazed is not going to be in a position to get more from his wife until he feels more confident in himself. Do I have that right, Dazed? And in order to feel more confident, you're going after a career that will provide for the family, correct?
If her love language is Acts of Service, it may help. And his efforts may at least help her feel her requests have been heard.

I agree he needs more confidence.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #218 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:27 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

My MBA was conferred in December, 2015. Is has not helped me secure better employment. However, in fairness, after a year of pursuing a higher paying position, I stopped looking. I have figured that I am better off in my current position with the state while trying to build our business that my wife handles day-to-day. There are several reasons for this decision, the most important of which is quality of life.

Is the MBA worth it? Maybe. You need to be in a larger market with access to many larger companies, which I am not. I am about two hours away from two of them, and relocation is simply not an option. If I were going to try to pursue a different career path, I would invest more in a certification of some kind. As an example, a PHR (Professional in Human Resources) certification would be much more lucrative in securing a higher paying position than my MBA, plus it would only take 1/4 of the time and a small fraction of the cost.

Dazed, prestige was a part of why I pursued my MBA as well. Guess what? Now I am the same old me with another piece of paper. It is just another achievement among many that I have pursued in an effort to feel accomplished.

If you want to be a better man, reinforce the foundation, don't change the drapes.

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post #219 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:39 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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My MBA was conferred in December, 2015. Is has not helped me secure better employment. However, in fairness, after a year of pursuing a higher paying position, I stopped looking. I have figured that I am better off in my current position with the state while trying to build our business that my wife handles day-to-day. There are several reasons for this decision, the most important of which is quality of life.

Is the MBA worth it? Maybe. You need to be in a larger market with access to many larger companies, which I am not. I am about two hours away from two of them, and relocation is simply not an option. If I were going to try to pursue a different career path, I would invest more in a certification of some kind. As an example, a PHR (Professional in Human Resources) certification would be much more lucrative in securing a higher paying position than my MBA, plus it would only take 1/4 of the time and a small fraction of the cost.

Dazed, prestige was a part of why I pursued my MBA as well. Guess what? Now I am the same old me with another piece of paper. It is just another achievement among many that I have pursued in an effort to feel accomplished.

If you want to be a better man, reinforce the foundation, don't change the drapes.
Just curious, far, and not meant to t/j, but has the MBA helped you build your business?

Let me know if you want me to post this on your thread, instead.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #220 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 04:54 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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Just curious, far, and not meant to t/j, but has the MBA helped you build your business?

Let me know if you want me to post this on your thread, instead.
Yes, it has.

Some fundamentals we covered in that program have helped me develop our pricing models, our true break even point, and the financial/accounting structure of the business.


"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #221 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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and not meant to t/j
Not at all a TJ, lol - I am casting about for any information I can find that might be useful!
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post #222 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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@jld, I don't think doing things around the house is going to help his wife develop feelings of love for him, which she seems to be missing. He's already covered how he spends his non-working time caring for the household and their son.
Yes and no.

Just managing the household, no. If I were to show more initiative on 'manly' house projects, I think she would be more impressed. Home improvements, building a backyard for our son, fixing our landscaping, keeping up with the yard work and car maintenance and the like. Things that men traditionally do.

Again, she wants to feel like she's with a 'real man'. She wants someone she can look at and speak about with pride. Someone who is impressive in his own right, who is a leader rather than someone who needs her support or direction. Someone she can admire and that others can admire as well.

I think the big things that she is looking, those that would earn her admiration and respect again, are these:

- Kicking ass around the house, going above and beyond the basic domestic duties like cooking, laundry, managing the finances, etc.

- Having a REAL career that makes REAL money again.

- Pursuing interests that are significant and meaningful. Having passions that make a difference for someone besides just myself.

- Get healthy again, mentally and physically.

[quoteI think at this point, Dazed is not going to be in a position to get more from his wife until he feels more confident in himself. Do I have that right, Dazed?[/QUOTE]

Well, that would undoubtedly make a difference. It's hard to put my foot down when I'm always feeling like I'm on shaky ground (often with good reason).

Quote:
And in order to feel more confident, you're going after a career that will provide for the family, correct?
That would certainly give me some higher ground to operate from, yes.

[QUOTEIs there any chance your part-time work can go to full-time? I'm sure this is something you've considered, but a while back you mentioned that your part-time job pays well, so it must be that you're skilled in that industry, right? Any chance you can leverage that to interview for a full-time position out of the house?[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, no.

My current job is definitely a unique situation. I am a business manager/personal assistant for an wealthy, elderly gentleman who has a variety of business interests and investments that need ongoing management, and he doesn't feel like he has the capacity to manage them himself anymore.

My working with him has been a mixed blessing. On the one hand, I'm not really gaining a lot of highly skilled or specialized industry experience, and I'm often bored out of my skull. On the other, he has become like family to me, and I feel honored and privileged to play such a critical role in his life, and by the trust that he places in me (I have access to all of his money and personal business). I'm grateful that I can make such a difference for him.

It's interesting - he would be about my dad's age where my dad still alive, and he lost a son who would be my age around the same time that I lost my dad. I can't help but think that we were kinda 'meant for each other', in that we both help fill a void in each other's lives. He and I are very close, and, at a time where I don't have much in the way of friends or family (I really miss my dad when I think about him), it's been great to have a 'father' that I can talk with (he's the one who told me, 'The secret to a long marriage is to not get divorced!' lol).

But I know that I'm going to need to find something either instead of or in addition to that work, sooner rather than later.
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post #223 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:22 PM
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

Dazed, I will admit i probably think similar to what you just said. It's not because it's manly stuff, though. It's because I can't do those manly things very well. Can she?
I can also relate to the comments about having passions that make a difference, which ties into being healthy.
Simply because if you aren't doing those two things, it's like you are merely surviving, it's obvious you don't like your life and maybe you resent having to do it.
And if she could trade places with you, those are the things she might do. Appreciate the gift that few parents ever get to experience. It's rare to be able to afford to do what you are doing. Seems like a luxury to someone on the other side of it.




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post #224 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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I'm beginning to believe if a spouse says you're needy, the spouse doesn't love you as much as he or she should.
Or they do, but you are a 'Sponge'...
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post #225 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Question on becoming emotionally self-reliant and self-sufficient

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If her love language is Acts of Service, it may help.
I wasn't super impressed with The Five Love Languages (for a few reasons), but she says that her 'love language' is Words of Affirmation.

I think that is akin to Harley's need for Admiration.

And yes, I will be the first to say that I have little confidence in myself and life right now. That's why I'm trying to learn how to be more self-sufficient and self-reliant. I want to be able to be confident in myself and in life despite the negative (or utterly indifferent) opinions of those around me.
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