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post #31 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 07:44 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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I have a question for both men and women: is jealousy in a relationship a good or bad thing....in your opinion?

Are there positive forms of jealousy?

In what marital situations do think some jealousy is appropriate and positive?

When is jealousy destructive and negative?

Is there a place in marriage or a committed relationship for jealousy?
Jealousy in and of itself isn't bad. It is simply the desire for something that is yours.

Unfortunately, many folks have taken it to extremes and weird places.

Mrs. Conan and I have always been jealous of our relationship. She has exhibited more unhealthy aspects of it do to a greater feeling of insecurity than me.

Overall it has been good for us in that we never take each other for granted and have a healthy radar for potential threats.

She has made me aware of more than one predatory female that was flying below my radar and I have discouraged many would be paramours to her without her even knowing.

I think if there is a lack of any jealousy there is probably a lack of fire or passion.

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post #32 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 08:19 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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If there was a woman hitting in me at a party... blatantly coming on to me, I would expect my partner to be jealous. In fact I think I would be a bit disappointed if she was not, because that tells me she does not value me or the relationship as much as I would hope.
IMO, this is simply wrong thinking. My partner would not be jealous, because she knows me and trusts me - she knows I won't fall for it, and knows I can handle the person and any advances. That also shows respect for me, as well as confidence in herself, me and the relationship. She has nothing to fear, so does not give in to irrational jealousy.

This article may be useful:

7 Tips for Overcoming Jealousy in Relationships

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.

Last edited by Married but Happy; 04-05-2017 at 08:23 AM.
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post #33 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 08:25 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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IMO, this is simply wrong thinking. My partner would not be jealous, because she knows me and trusts me - she knows I won't fall for it, and knows I can handle it. That also shows respect for me, as well as confidence in herself, me and the relationship. She has nothing to fear, so does not give in to irrational jealousy.

This article may be useful:

7 Tips for Overcoming Jealousy in Relationships
Hummm, how many more people have I heard say that they trust their spouses.
My husband is really easy going, and hasn't got a jealous bone in his body, but I would hope and expect that he would say something if I was with a man who was flirting even though he trusts me. Its not appropriate behaviour.
I am all for good wise boundaries, and to feel a little jealous if there is reason to is perfectly normal.
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post #34 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 08:39 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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Originally Posted by bandit.45 View Post
If there was a woman hitting in me at a party... blatantly coming on to me, I would expect my partner to be jealous. In fact I think I would be a bit disappointed if she was not, because that tells me she does not value me or the relationship as much as I would hope.
What you are describing here is possessiveness, not jealousy.

One can feel possessive of their partner without being insecure or jealous. Feeling possessive in a case like you described is natural and normal and usually ends up feeling good, if the possessive one is allowed to express their feelings and if the other one is happy to be possessed in that way in that moment.

If either is not willing to be possessed even in that slight way (the party example) then possessiveness will not be experienced as a good feeling or a good thing in that relationship.

When you feel possessive in a healthy way, it does not necessarily mean that you....

*think another person (a rival suitor) is "better" than you are in any way

*think that your partner is unreliable or untrustworthy

Instead you think....

*(to rival) get away from my treasure

*(to partner) you are my treasure and I don't care who knows it, I'm not going to let anyone get too close to it

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
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post #35 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 09:04 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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Hummm, how many more people have I heard say that they trust their spouses.
My husband is really easy going, and hasn't got a jealous bone in his body, but I would hope and expect that he would say something if I was with a man who was flirting even though he trusts me. Its not appropriate behaviour.
I am all for good wise boundaries, and to feel a little jealous if there is reason to is perfectly normal.
It's certainly inappropriate if YOU are flirting, and of course he should say something. My wife would intervene if she thought I needed assistance getting rid of someone, or they kept returning. Otherwise, she'd probably just be amused by the situation. BTW, some people actually DO trust their spouse, and have good reason to do so. Some may be na´ve, of course, but many are needlessly suspicious and paranoid. It's sad to live in a fearful prison of your own making.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #36 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 09:14 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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I guess I think there are righteous forms of jealousy: such as a husband being jealous of a man hitting in his wife. That is a protective instinct.

Then there is the unrighteous jealousy, or envy or maybe covetousness, where one spouse is jealous of the other spouse's career success or jealous of the spouse's ability to be social and make lots of friends, while he or she is a shy wallflower.
I think that's pretty accurate. Also, I think people tend to use the word Jealousy as a wider catch-all than what it really means. As you point out, covetousness (or envy) is a different thing altogether.

To me, jealousy is from a fear of losing what one already has. I might be jealous of the man hitting on my wife if I thought there was any chance she'd cheat or leave. I certainly felt jealousy of one of my xw's ex-bfs whom she never got over. Had we lived near him there would have been a real chance she'd have gotten involved again with him.

But this is different than insecurity. Insecurity would lead to an irrational fear, manifested as a jealousy. But the underlying issue is still the irrational fear of abandonment.

In addition, sometimes the retroactive jealousy may be really an envy of a previous partner. If the current relationship is, or seems to be, less than one of your partner's previous relationships, an envy can set in. A typical example is the wife who is vanilla with her husband but he discovers she was wild with a previous bf. The H doesn't fear losing her to the old bf, thus he isn't jealous. He is envious of the bf for having had a wilder relationship with her.

All of these things are coming from different places in the man's mind but are sometimes all mashed together under the one word Jealousy.
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post #37 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:26 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

I admit, I am possessive... I have also seen it described as "territorial" lol. If I see someone who is getting a little too "friendly" toward my SO, I will insert myself into the situation and for the most part, that diffuses any intent they may have thought they had. (that is, when I actually HAVE a SO) You dont have to go BSC on them, just be seen, lol. I am also not cool with casual chit chat online with "new" friends of the opposite sex, or EX's for that matter. Hard lessons learned to have basic boundaries.

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post #38 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:30 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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But this is different than insecurity. Insecurity would lead to an irrational fear, manifested as a jealousy. But the underlying issue is still the irrational fear of abandonment.
With all due respect, insecurity is not always irrational. There are situations where a spouse has a VERY rational reason for feeling insecure in a marriage. I think insecurity is one of those words that gets thrown around as the fault of the person who is feeling insecure, when in many instances, they have every reason to feel uncertain and/or anxious about the relationship.
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post #39 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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With all due respect, insecurity is not always irrational. There are situations where a spouse has a VERY rational reason for feeling insecure in a marriage. I think insecurity is one of those words that gets thrown around as the fault of the person who is feeling insecure, when in many instances, they have every reason to feel uncertain and/or anxious about the relationship.
Well said. I agree.
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post #40 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

I have to admit I am very possessive and tend towards jealousy. But honestly I have never let it become too much of a problem. It is a personality trait I would rather keep than try to rid myself of. It is way, way down on the list of bad traits about myself that I am choosing to work on.

I guess I would rather have a jealous streak than be a weak, spineless pushover who lets poeple try to take what is his.

And yes, I am one of those unevolved Neanderthals who still believes that when you marry someone, you become their property and they become yours. Well...I jealously guard what is mine, until she decides she is no longer mine.

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post #41 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 02:11 PM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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I have to admit I am very possessive and tend towards jealousy. But honestly I have never let it become too much of a problem. It is a personality trait I would rather keep than try to rid myself of. It is way, way down on the list of bad traits about myself that I am choosing to work on.

I guess I would rather have a jealous streak than be a weak, spineless pushover who lets poeple try to take what is his.

And yes, I am one of those unevolved Neanderthals who still believes that when you marry someone, you become their property and they become yours. Well...I jealously guard what is mine, until she decides she is no longer mine.
We are of one mind on this, Bandit!

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post #42 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 03:35 AM
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Re: Jealousy: Good or Bad?

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Hummm, how many more people have I heard say that they trust their spouses.
Well, at least one more; I trust my spouse with good reason. You're missing a couple of other crucial elements that @Married but Happy touched on - Respect, what I would term high self-esteem and feeling secure in the relationship.
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My husband is really easy going, and hasn't got a jealous bone in his body, but I would hope and expect that he would say something if I was with a man who was flirting even though he trusts me. Its not appropriate behaviour.
I am all for good wise boundaries, and to feel a little jealous if there is reason to is perfectly normal.
I understand mate-guarding, it's just I've never been put in that situation. We walk into a restaurant and there are two responses. Some will give her a cursory glance but others will look her up and down clearly liking what they see. I know this because the very next thing they do is to check out who she's with. In the seventeen we've been together there's not been one occasion where a man has followed up on their interest when I'm with her.

So, as I've said I understand mate-guarding but never been in the situation where my wife would disrespect herself, our relationship and me by responding to someone flirting with her right in front of me to the point I'd have to step in. She is, after all, the wise woman who once said "I don't blame other women for wanting to sleep with my husband. I would only blame you (<-me)". It's not her job to police me or vice versa.

Of course, we both get hit on. I've been hit on with her standing right next to me, but we both think that it comes from women with low self-esteem who need the validation of being able to "turn a man's head" of someone who's clearly in a relationship. Her ex used to fall for that all the time. I consider myself better than being a temporary tool to boost some random woman's ego at the expense of my partner. You have to see these things for what they are. If I'm making my partner jealous then I'd consider that I wasn;t conducting myself as I should.

As for the possession thing, I'm not really comfortable about thinking of another human being as my possession (though I can see that as kinda romantic). She has my loyalty and that should be enough. And vice versa.
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