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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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The confusion of it all

So many of you regulars have probably seen my post about the problems with my marriage, or at least the recent problems. Long story short, I had and was caught in an EA that never got physical, my wife was caught texting with another man and from everything I've seen during my investigation, it was an EA that never got physical. More recently I found a suggestive text on her phone from a different man that she said was nothing more than an unsolicited text. Again, through my investigating I have found that it was nothing more than an unsolicited text.

What confuses me is this, for about 2 years now we have been having problems. Each time something has happened we have spoken about it and trying to work past things. Within the past couple weeks I have noticed her making an effort, showing more affection, talking more about random interests and not work or our problems, things like that. It hasn't been a great effort, but it's much more than I've seen. But then out of nowhere there's a mood swing where once again it seems like she doesn't want me around, and that mood swing can go on unprovoked for a couple days.

I have asked her many times over the last two years if she wants to stay married and if she wants to try and work on things, and the only answer I've gotten is "I'm not sure, I need to feel comfortable in our relationship again before I can make a decision" Now I know what everyone is going to say, "Why are you still together if that's her answer?" And I do agree, but then there are those times where it really does feel like she's making a real effort and things improve. I can understand her not wanting to give me a direct answer to the question, she is stubborn, always wants her way, and never likes to show her hand until she's ready. She's always been like that and it is something I do like about her, or at least did up until the problems started. But the back and forth of one week seeing an effort and things are good, then back to she wants nothing to do with me for a day or two and then this little truce kind of period before things improve again just confuses me.

I am really at the point that I'm ready to file for divorce because I just don't want to live like this anymore. But on the other hand, when things are good, they're good, and the good days have been outweighing the bad days more and more recently. I go back and forth between how I've been living like this for awhile now so what's a little while longer, to I'm done with this I can't deal with it anymore. I do still love her and the last thing I want to do is divorce, but I keep finding myself more and more on the fence about all it.

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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 10:23 AM
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Re: The confusion of it all

Sounds like you need to read this:
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-St.../dp/0452275350

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 11:06 AM
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Re: The confusion of it all

File for divorce. If she wants to make it work, she will exert effort. You can always stop the filing.

When you ask someone if they want to stay married, any answer other than "Yes" means No.
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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 11:07 AM
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Re: The confusion of it all

Have you tried couples counselling? It sounds like there is a lot being 'unsaid'. It might give you the chance to truly put both sets of cards on the table and start anew.

Just out of curiosity, who had the first EA?

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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 11:18 AM
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Re: The confusion of it all

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Originally Posted by AtMyEnd View Post
So many of you regulars have probably seen my post about the problems with my marriage, or at least the recent problems. Long story short, I had and was caught in an EA that never got physical, my wife was caught texting with another man and from everything I've seen during my investigation, it was an EA that never got physical. More recently I found a suggestive text on her phone from a different man that she said was nothing more than an unsolicited text. Again, through my investigating I have found that it was nothing more than an unsolicited text.

What confuses me is this, for about 2 years now we have been having problems. Each time something has happened we have spoken about it and trying to work past things. Within the past couple weeks I have noticed her making an effort, showing more affection, talking more about random interests and not work or our problems, things like that. It hasn't been a great effort, but it's much more than I've seen. But then out of nowhere there's a mood swing where once again it seems like she doesn't want me around, and that mood swing can go on unprovoked for a couple days.

I have asked her many times over the last two years if she wants to stay married and if she wants to try and work on things, and the only answer I've gotten is "I'm not sure, I need to feel comfortable in our relationship again before I can make a decision" Now I know what everyone is going to say, "Why are you still together if that's her answer?" And I do agree, but then there are those times where it really does feel like she's making a real effort and things improve. I can understand her not wanting to give me a direct answer to the question, she is stubborn, always wants her way, and never likes to show her hand until she's ready. She's always been like that and it is something I do like about her, or at least did up until the problems started. But the back and forth of one week seeing an effort and things are good, then back to she wants nothing to do with me for a day or two and then this little truce kind of period before things improve again just confuses me.

I am really at the point that I'm ready to file for divorce because I just don't want to live like this anymore. But on the other hand, when things are good, they're good, and the good days have been outweighing the bad days more and more recently. I go back and forth between how I've been living like this for awhile now so what's a little while longer, to I'm done with this I can't deal with it anymore. I do still love her and the last thing I want to do is divorce, but I keep finding myself more and more on the fence about all it.
Upon immediate reflection it appears you expect her to trust you and work on the marriage, who had the EA first? Not to justify her actions but was her EA a 'revenge' EA. If so, you are not in any position to make any demands as the first EA was the nuclear bomb in your marriage, no wonder she will not show her hand.

For me the telling sentence in your story is how you glossed over your own EA and immediately talked about your wife's texting which may or may not have been an EA. You also found an 'unsolicited' textr. It is as if you are looking to find her doing the same thing as you. It would be interesting to hear from your wife because I suspect you and only you had an affair but you want to even things out to justify your actions. So perhaps you might want to reevaluate your position and be a bit more truthful about how this all started.

The mood swing is her realizing that you cannot be trusted and she is second guessing herself whether she is doing the right thing investing again in the marriage.
You don't want to live with her behaviour but for a wayward spouse yourself what have you been bringing to the table? It sound like you expect her to do all the heavy lifting although you yourself are culpable, what have you done to show her you are committed to her and the marriage, will never ever do what you did again, etc.
YOu appear to be making this all about you.

Actually based on this, she should divorce you.
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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 12:15 PM
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Re: The confusion of it all

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Originally Posted by AtMyEnd View Post
More recently I found a suggestive text on her phone from a different man that she said was nothing more than an unsolicited text.
Forgive me if I roll my eyes into the back of head because this is SO cliche of the typical clueless husband.

OP, I've never received an 'unsolicited' sexually suggestive text from some mouth-breather who knows my cell phone number. And if the fool DID dare to send me something like that out of the blue, it's not something my husband would just forget about and delete like you did, I can tell you that. The guy would be hearing from him.

Not sure what super-sleuth methods you supposedly employed in order to be able to claim the text was nothing, but you'd better think again. You're obviously unaware of the many different ways people can stay in touch with each other using all kinds of apps that use WiFi, not your cell phone carrier. That means NO trace is left on the cell bill or in the texting or calling history. It's ALL contained in the app. And cheaters hide these apps so they're not visible to you. They've also been known to uninstall the app when they get home and just reinstall it when they leave for work in the morning (or when YOU leave for work in the morning).

Stop being so naive thinking she's a girl scout.

From your post I can already tell she's the one who wears the pants. For two years you've been doing the 'pick me' dance, being needy and asking her if she wants to be with you, and for 2 years you've actually accepted her bull**** non-answers about not knowing what she wants. So, instead of finding your spine and calling an end to this farce, you just dance a little faster, praying she'll finally give you the answer you're hoping for.

I have to be brutally honest. Just reading this post makes you sound weak, needy and desperate, so I can only imagine how you appear to her. That's about as unattractive as a man can possibly get.
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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 12:18 PM
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Re: The confusion of it all

.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The confusion of it all

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Originally Posted by She'sStillGotIt View Post
Forgive me if I roll my eyes into the back of head because this is SO cliche of the typical clueless husband.

OP, I've never received an 'unsolicited' sexually suggestive text from some mouth-breather who knows my cell phone number. And if the fool DID dare to send me something like that out of the blue, it's not something my husband would just forget about and delete like you did, I can tell you that. The guy would be hearing from him.

Not sure what super-sleuth methods you supposedly employed in order to be able to claim the text was nothing, but you'd better think again. You're obviously unaware of the many different ways people can stay in touch with each other using all kinds of apps that use WiFi, not your cell phone carrier. That means NO trace is left on the cell bill or in the texting or calling history. It's ALL contained in the app. And cheaters hide these apps so they're not visible to you. They've also been known to uninstall the app when they get home and just reinstall it when they leave for work in the morning (or when YOU leave for work in the morning).

Stop being so naive thinking she's a girl scout.

From your post I can already tell she's the one who wears the pants. For two years you've been doing the 'pick me' dance, being needy and asking her if she wants to be with you, and for 2 years you've actually accepted her bull**** non-answers about not knowing what she wants. So, instead of finding your spine and calling an end to this farce, you just dance a little faster, praying she'll finally give you the answer you're hoping for.

I have to be brutally honest. Just reading this post makes you sound weak, needy and desperate, so I can only imagine how you appear to her. That's about as unattractive as a man can possibly get.
Well I did confront him about it and made it very clear that if I found anything else like that his life would become extremely difficult. My "super sleuthing" methods were direct to the source. When I found the text on her phone I looked through the entire thread and there was nothing else there. Since then I have gained access to her phone secretly a few times and have looked through everything, emails, texts, messaging apps, all of it, and all I have found is conversations with her friends about it how I'm making a big deal over an unsolicited text. I have also downloaded all the backups and deleted messages from her found and have found nothing else.

And yes, I will admit that over the course of our problems I have lost myself and become needy. But over the last few months I have taken the steps to change that, and that's the time period now that I have seen the most change from her. I've stopped hoping or expecting anything from her and I live my life on my terms. My problem here is that yes, I do still love her, we have a young child together, and I don't feel that throwing away 15 years of our lives together because of a couple bad years is worth it. I've told myself that for my son's sake I would stick it out a little longer and see what happens. But that patience is really beginning to wear thin.
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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The confusion of it all

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Upon immediate reflection it appears you expect her to trust you and work on the marriage, who had the EA first? Not to justify her actions but was her EA a 'revenge' EA. If so, you are not in any position to make any demands as the first EA was the nuclear bomb in your marriage, no wonder she will not show her hand.

For me the telling sentence in your story is how you glossed over your own EA and immediately talked about your wife's texting which may or may not have been an EA. You also found an 'unsolicited' textr. It is as if you are looking to find her doing the same thing as you. It would be interesting to hear from your wife because I suspect you and only you had an affair but you want to even things out to justify your actions. So perhaps you might want to reevaluate your position and be a bit more truthful about how this all started.

The mood swing is her realizing that you cannot be trusted and she is second guessing herself whether she is doing the right thing investing again in the marriage.
You don't want to live with her behaviour but for a wayward spouse yourself what have you been bringing to the table? It sound like you expect her to do all the heavy lifting although you yourself are culpable, what have you done to show her you are committed to her and the marriage, will never ever do what you did again, etc.
YOu appear to be making this all about you.

Actually based on this, she should divorce you.
Well for one, when I was caught I offered up anything and everything I could. I showed her my phone, my email, answered every question she asked me truthfully and whatever else she asked. I even gave her the OW's number and email and told her to contact her and ask her whatever she wanted. I brought up that we needed to go to counseling, looked for a counselor and made the appointments. In counseling I held nothing back, I didn't hide a thing and she knew it. All the things she used to tell me I didn't do that she wished I did, I started doing. I put in every ounce of effort that I could to try and show her that I knew I was wrong and was making an effort to change myself and to try and fix our marriage.

When I caught her texting another man everyday from the time she woke up to the time she went to sleep, her response was he's a friend and a mentor, and that he gives her a lot of advise about work cases and they had just became friends. When I asked her to see her phone and show me the texts, she refused. She said that her privacy was important to her, that they also talked about things about his personal life as well as hers and that I had no business reading about things in his life. I disagreed and told her that if she wanted me to believe that, that she'd show me the phone. I told her how when she caught me I was completely open about it and I expected her to do the same, but she still refused. At the time I couldn't gain access to her phone, all I could do is monitor her text and data logs from our cell carrier. I saw that the texts had stopped and there was no unusual increases in data, along with paying closer attention to where she was going and being able to verify that, I didn't see any other flags at all so I had to put it behind us and try to move forward. Shortly after I found out about this and confronted her on it was when she decided she didn't want to continue counseling saying she "didn't believe in it". After a long conversation about it we both agreed that we'd try and work on things ourselves, see how it goes and if things got bad again we'd go back to counseling, she still refuses to go back.

When I found the most recent text, the "unsolicited" one, again after confronting her on it I asked to she her phone, and again she refused. After days of arguments about it I let things die down a little, I knew if I kept pushing it would just push her further away. I did a lot more research after that one as far as how to get into her phone, computer, VAR's and everything else. I did figure out how to get into her phone without her knowing, and after seeing there were no other texts and seeing all the texts with her friends about it I did come to the conclusion that nothing had actually happened. The OW knew our marriage was a mess and my thinking on it was that the text was his way of making a move on her. But again, since the only evidence I found was evidence going against what I thought, and yes there was a lot of it, I had to put this behind us as well.

Since all of that I have done a 180, limiting communication and interaction to only things about our son or the house, essential things. I started working out again, going out with friends more, doing things for me, and spending more quality time just me and my son. If he and I are going to do something, yes I'll ask if she wants to go, but if she doesn't it's fine, we go anyway. If she asks me a question I answer but I don't get into a conversation about it. I've focused on me and she knows that, she's noticed it and she's commented on it in a positive way. And since I've done that I have seen signs of improvement from her. But at the same time her mood will change back and she'll withdraw from everything with no cause. That lasts a day or two and then things are ok again.

But I've been focused on working on our marriage since I got caught having an EA, she knows that and she's commented on that. I've told myself that divorce is an absolute last resort mainly because I don't want to put my son through that if I don't have to. And yes, I have seen little signs of effort and improvement from her lately, but is it too little too late?
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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The confusion of it all

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Have you tried couples counselling? It sounds like there is a lot being 'unsaid'. It might give you the chance to truly put both sets of cards on the table and start anew.

Just out of curiosity, who had the first EA?

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I had the EA first. It wasn't something I set out to do, we didn't talk or interact much at the time. I had started playing an online game to pass the time and went the OW. We would chat about the game, our lives, and my marriage. We had a lot of things in common and she would give me advice on things with my marriage, a lot of which was helpful, but one thing led to another and there it was. We had never met, and never actually talked, we only texted in the game and later texted by phone outside the game. It's not something I'm proud of, it's not something I ever meant to happen, it was a mistake. And a stupid one at that, one that I still regret and probably always will.

We did try couples counseling, we started shortly before I caught her texting another man. We went to 3 sessions and she told me she wasn't going back because she didn't believe in it. Even the 3 sessions we did I could tell, and so could the counselor, that she didn't want to be there and wasn't being open about things. After a long conversation between the two of us we both figured that if both weren't totally committed to it then it was just a waste of money.

Every conversation we've had since all of this started I have been totally open about and laid all my cards out there, hoping she would do the same, but she hasn't. She still tells me that she has a wall up between us that she doesn't know how to take down, and I keep telling her that if anything is ever going to work out that she needs to take that wall down, at least partially.

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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The confusion of it all

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File for divorce. If she wants to make it work, she will exert effort. You can always stop the filing.

When you ask someone if they want to stay married, any answer other than "Yes" means No.
That has always been my last resort, but one I'm coming very close too. I know it's wrong to think this way but I worry about my young son if it does come to divorce. He's old enough to understand a lot, but I don't know if he's old enough to understand why daddy isn't there anymore. He really does mean the world to me, we have a great relationship, and I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize that or how he thinks about me. But yes, I'm approaching the point of filing, and both I know and she knows that if it comes to that I'm not coming back. I'm not going to file as a threat, if I reach that point, that's it game over.
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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 01:50 PM
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Re: The confusion of it all

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So many of you regulars have probably seen my post about the problems with my marriage, or at least the recent problems. Long story short, I had and was caught in an EA that never got physical, my wife was caught texting with another man and from everything I've seen during my investigation, it was an EA that never got physical. More recently I found a suggestive text on her phone from a different man that she said was nothing more than an unsolicited text. Again, through my investigating I have found that it was nothing more than an unsolicited text.

Was it from a coworker?

What confuses me is this, for about 2 years now we have been having problems. Each time something has happened we have spoken about it and trying to work past things. Within the past couple weeks I have noticed her making an effort, showing more affection, talking more about random interests and not work or our problems, things like that. It hasn't been a great effort, but it's much more than I've seen. But then out of nowhere there's a mood swing where once again it seems like she doesn't want me around, and that mood swing can go on unprovoked for a couple days.

She's not over your EA. She's likely harboring great resentment and hurt, especially if the EA was rug swept and never fully recovered from. Do her mood swings coincide with her cycle (woman's)? I know that I have issues with neglect by my husband from last year and I have intense mood swings regarding the pain right before my cycle each month. I'm reading The Power of Now (about fully awakening/enlightenment) and the author says that the pain-body experience is especially powerful for women at this time, and it is very difficult to manage the powerful emotions that come from issues at this time. I am in NO WAY blaming her behavior on just her "cycle," as the issues are very real- just that she might have a harder time hiding it or managing it at this time. I know I do and my husband did not have an EA- if he did, it would be MUCH more difficult for me.
I have asked her many times over the last two years if she wants to stay married and if she wants to try and work on things, and the only answer I've gotten is "I'm not sure, I need to feel comfortable in our relationship again before I can make a decision" Now I know what everyone is going to say, "Why are you still together if that's her answer?" And I do agree, but then there are those times where it really does feel like she's making a real effort and things improve. I can understand her not wanting to give me a direct answer to the question, she is stubborn, always wants her way, and never likes to show her hand until she's ready. She's always been like that and it is something I do like about her, or at least did up until the problems started. But the back and forth of one week seeing an effort and things are good, then back to she wants nothing to do with me for a day or two and then this little truce kind of period before things improve again just confuses me.

That's not my question at all. You made vows. You both need to do whatever you can to save your marriage before giving up. This is not only her problem- you contributed greatly to the issues in your marriage.

I am really at the point that I'm ready to file for divorce because I just don't want to live like this anymore. But on the other hand, when things are good, they're good, and the good days have been outweighing the bad days more and more recently. I go back and forth between how I've been living like this for awhile now so what's a little while longer, to I'm done with this I can't deal with it anymore. I do still love her and the last thing I want to do is divorce, but I keep finding myself more and more on the fence about all it.
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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:01 PM
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The confusion of it all

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That has always been my last resort, but one I'm coming very close too. I know it's wrong to think this way but I worry about my young son if it does come to divorce. He's old enough to understand a lot, but I don't know if he's old enough to understand why daddy isn't there anymore. He really does mean the world to me, we have a great relationship, and I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize that or how he thinks about me. But yes, I'm approaching the point of filing, and both I know and she knows that if it comes to that I'm not coming back. I'm not going to file as a threat, if I reach that point, that's it game over.


Don't look at filing as a threat. Look at it as following the path that is best for both of you. But it might be the kick in the ass you both need to start fixing the marriage.

You need to get off the fence and out of limbo. Filing may make you both decide which side of the fence you want. Hopefully that is the same side, whether divorce or stay married.
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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The confusion of it all

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Don't look at filing as a threat. Look at it as following the path that is best for both of you. But it might be the kick in the ass you both need to start fixing the marriage.

You need to get off the fence and out of limbo. Filing may make you both decide which side of the fence you want. Hopefully that is the same side, whether divorce or stay married.
Well these next two weeks will really be the test of how things are going to go. She's away all week with her best friend this week. I haven't been communicating with her unless she initiates and actually asks me something. I Skype with her at night for my son, and that's it. I feel that this week will be good for her to clear her head, relax and just enjoy her time away. Next week our son will be at my in-laws all week so we'll have time to act like adults. We can go wherever and do whatever without having to worry about a babysitter or something like that. So we'll see, but if there is no signs of anything after next week I am telling her and meeting with an attorney and starting to look for someplace else to live. I have been on the fence too long and it's time to get off it, one side or the other.
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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The confusion of it all

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Was it from a coworker?

She's not over your EA. She's likely harboring great resentment and hurt, especially if the EA was rug swept and never fully recovered from. Do her mood swings coincide with her cycle (woman's)? I know that I have issues with neglect by my husband from last year and I have intense mood swings regarding the pain right before my cycle each month. I'm reading The Power of Now (about fully awakening/enlightenment) and the author says that the pain-body experience is especially powerful for women at this time, and it is very difficult to manage the powerful emotions that come from issues at this time. I am in NO WAY blaming her behavior on just her "cycle," as the issues are very real- just that she might have a harder time hiding it or managing it at this time. I know I do and my husband did not have an EA- if he did, it would be MUCH more difficult for me.

That's not my question at all. You made vows. You both need to do whatever you can to save your marriage before giving up. This is not only her problem- you contributed greatly to the issues in your marriage.
It wasn't a coworker. The first texting incident was with another attorney but not one that she worked with. The second was someone we play volleyball with in the summers. I've spoken to both of them both by text and in person which is one of the reasons why I haven't found anymore communications from either.

Sometimes yes, her mood swings go along with her cycle but not always. Typically if I see the mood swing when I know it's around that time I let things slide and don't think much of them knowing that there are other factors involved.

And yes, we both took vows, and actually renewed those vows shortly before our problems began. I know that I've contributed to our problems and I have admitted that numerous times, but so has she, only she hasn't admitted to anything. Our problems started long before my EA happened, and I'm not blaming anything on anyone or anything, but our problems were started by neither one of us communicating and both of us shutting down. Other problems really came out about 3 three years ago, and at the time she had asked if we should go to counseling and I agreed. I heard her make the appointment, but the week of the appointment she told me she canceled it. She felt we should try on our own first and if things didn't work than we'd see a counselor. Well needless to say her plan didn't work.
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Confusion wont go away, therapy makes it worse. Help! dumbledore84 General Relationship Discussion 5 08-22-2016 11:09 AM

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