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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 07:11 PM
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She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Giving her space and then waiting to find out what she does is weak. It is you reacting to her, predicting what she will do, responding to it… It's week. Make up your damn mind. What are you want? You probably want to woman who's into you, right? Well then tell her that. Don't wait for her to leave. Make up your damn mind, tell her what you need, and move on if she can't meet that need.

sorry, but you sound like a sad little puppy. I totally get that you feel that way. It's normal, especially if you love her. But you could never ever ever let her see that.

Tell her you've thought about it and actually do give a damn if she flirts with other guys. Tell her she chooses to do that she should just move the hell out.


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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 07:32 PM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

I will add No More Mr. Nice Guy to the list of books. Also, hit the gym. She's already told you twice that you don't meet her standards.

Hit the gym & find a woman that will meet YOUR standards!
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 07:37 PM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

You could also try the book

"What do women want?"
By Daniel Bergner.

You sound a little too nice, good is not always nice, and maybe a bit codependent.

If she is still sleeping with you and dating you, you have a chance but you need to become more comfortable in your own skin as an individual.

A confident, independent man that fearlessly loves a woman, regardless of what might happen, is very attractive.

Securing her as your mate should not be your sole purpose.

Securing who you are regardless of what is happening in your life needs to be your sole purpose.

If I were in your shoes, I would not be afraid to bravely cry. Not to make her feel guilty or sympathy but to smile while I was crying, telling her she is the love of my life and I don't regret a moment of my life with her.

I would give her some space as I focused on myself, improving work, hobbies, physical fitness, activities, etc...

I would let her know, still not hiding my love and still smiling at the thought of her, that I had to be exclusive in our dating or we couldn't be together like that.

I would let her know it would break my heart but only wish the best for her

I would ask her to make sure she is making good choices.

Also, between me, you and TAM, Who do you think she has been talking to and do you think some of her discontent has been helped along by others with an agenda?

Did she maybe start confiding/complaining to friends about your relationship instead of you? Maybe to another man over 🍵 coffee?

Some thoughts. Best wishes.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Thanks guys. I didn't expect this to be helpful and it has indeed given me some clarity. I appreciate all of your comments and always welcome more.

I agree that letting this be in limbo and waiting for her is weak. I know that regardless of what happens, I need to change for myself. I am way too nice. It is odd because I am confident in every aspect of life except in this relationship, which I've given up all power. The kind of loving I am showing her is the kind I saw with my parents, which wasn't romantic at all and more like a parent spoiling their kid.

I will draw a line with her. I've let her walk over me too much and I need to leave with some dignity, learn from my mistakes, and move on.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:59 PM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

If you chase they move farther away. Always!!!!

You stay in this being disrespected you'll just get more and dumped afterwards. She's either in or you are out. You appear to be letting your weakness define you. Very unnattractive!!!!

You cannot make some one love you or do anything.

Do not make threats you won't enforce. You'll just get walked on. Your best bet is to go your own way. Better than have it happen with kids later.

Read it. It's short and you need to apply it.
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glo...r_Nice_Guy.pdf
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 11:10 PM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Lars:

Some people spend their lives chasing limerence. Look it up.

Your fiance sounds like such a person.

Let her go. She failed her audition to be your wife by not being able to remain faithful.

And remember this:

No matter how poorly you treated her, how much you may have neglected her, how much you struggled to lead or to initiate problem solving dialogue, when things got tough, rather than work to fix them, or just simply break up with you, she started messaging other men.

Let that sink in. She is low character. Sweep this situation under the rug, and it will surely happen again, only next time you will potentially have children, a mortgage, 401K's, alimony, and child support to figure out.

Good luck.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 11:36 PM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lars265 View Post
Hello,

In a lot of pain and confusion right now. Open to any thoughts and suggestions.

My fiancee and I are both currently 30. We started dating 6 years ago, got engaged 3 years ago. She is my first love, and to her I am her first serious relationship.

A month ago she told me she was unhappy in the relationship and doesn't know why because I'm just a "great guy". Logically, she thinks she should be with me because I take care of her, but emotionally she says she wants someone feels intimate with. She says it is a lot of work and she doesn't know if she wants to try again. She said she wanted a man who she wants to kiss, who takes charge. We had been through something similar 2 years ago. At the time she didn't feel I was supporting her goals, and since then I've bent head over heels to support her as best as I can, which she has been grateful for. However, that caused me to be her butler and I forgot the court and date her.

Unfortunately, communication isn't our best suit. She has a tendency to get upset when I try to get her to open up, and I, afraid of upsetting her,
don't often pursue. I think over time she started to lose attraction for me because I was not emotionally in tune and focused too much on sex, thinking everything was great. I acted too needy and a pleaser and I believe that was why she lost her feelings for me. In addtion, we are both introverts and don't socialize much outside of each other, which may have led to me smothering her with what I thought would keep her happy. It also doesn't help that her only friends are guy friends, who I'm sure are interested in her because she is beautiful.

Alongside, I found out she has been bantering with another coworker that she says she is not interested in for about a year. I confronted her earlier and she stated it was just fun. She also said she did meet someone that she was interested in and had been on a two coffee meetings with him, though she tried to say she didn't know it was a date. I get the sense she has been lining up my replacement.

When she had told me this in the beginning, I made mistakes by trying to reason and plead with her to give us another chance. I seriously was caught off guard but after reading online, etc, I realize this was not a good move and likely further lowered my attraction to her. I also began to realize all the mistakes I made and I wanted to fix it. She stated we can try, but she is looking for apartments so she doesn't feel like she is stuck.

So I decided to act more like a man and let her do what she wants, pretending it doesn't bother me and trying to give myself the mindset that I know my value and she can leave if she wants to. Last week, we started to get closer again to the point where we would cuddle together in bed. I felt like things were turning up, which was surprising to me since a week ago I thought she had lost interest completely. But the next day when I dropped her off at the airport I told her that I do not care if she sees/flirts with other guys, but that it is testing me and if she messes it up with me I will walk away. I tried to show strength and that statement brought her to tears. During her vacation she gave me the silent treatment, though I can tell she was texting the guys mentioned above. I feel like I made a mistake because I was just getting her to open up again but stupidly brought the drama back at the worse time ever.

Anyway, she is back and i'm trying to get her to open up to me emotionally since she obviously shut me out during that week. At the same time I am worried that if I keep probing her to open up she will always associate the negative feelings with me, pushing her further away to avoid these hurtful feelings. She hasn't found an apartment yet but is looking for one in June, which puts time pressure for me to reattract her to stay through my actions.

I love this girl more than anything, but I'm trying to date/court her again and try to help her develop attraction for me, without forcing it. I feel that I need to make myself more scarce in order to give her space, be less needy, and show her that my life will go on and to give her a chance to miss me. But I do fear she will leave if I start to neglect her like this since her interest is so low already. I had a date planned on Saturday which she is open to, though her interest is clearly low.

Apologies if the above is scrambled. I know 6 years isn't THAT long and we aren't even married, but I haven't felt this much pain, agony, and heartache ever before. I know this experience will teach me to be a better man instead of a needy pleaser that I was, but I love this girl to no end. The other aspects of my life (career, etc) are fantastic and I am a confident professional in those areas, but when I'm with her I sort of lose myself and smother her.

Please help, lay down the truth, smack me in the face, whatever it is!

Hi @Lars256

Thanks for your post and your honesty.

I think to help resolve your situation, it's important to get to the heart of what's real. The short of it is that, IMO, your partner's needs weren't being met. In my work, i've never come across a couple where each partner's needs were being met at high levels and didn't have any passion or intimacy. It just doesn't work that way. I'll say the same thing about her as well.

The real issue here is that, in relationships, people often fail to maintain the same effort in a relationship after a number of years as they did at the start. What your going through doesn't just happen. It's the small things that compound over time that lead to a moment that we say things like "i've fallen out of love for my partner" or "There is no passion in the relationship".

I'll be brutally honest here in that, you are on a very slippery slope here in terms of how you handle this situation. In a nutshell, you've gone from one extreme to another. You've been the pleaser, the needy partner to the partner that puts on the facade of not giving a s*** and sadly, neither of these approaches work in the long run.

You need to strike the right balance here. The part of you that shows the confidence and strength that you do in other parts of your life, yet showing presence and level of vulnerability that she also needs to balance things out. Without this balance, the relationship goes from one extreme to another and never ends up moving forward in the way that you both want to.

There is no doubt in my mind that she wants you to step up for her a man. Be her rock. Be her voice. Be her strength. Show her that nothing phases you. But as long as you smother her and fail to show up for her in the way she needs you to, then all she's getting is a 'hairy' woman and that simply is not what will create the spark and the chemistry that she needs in her life. In fact, she will lose respect for you. If she doesn't get that, she will find it in other places. As an introvert, she will be wanting you to lead and guide her. She will be attracted to confidence and extroversion so this is where you will need to step that up - but if you balance that out with some real authenticity and vulnerability, then you have the foundations for a real partnership.

I hope that all makes sense.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks
Sri
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 11:55 PM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

You e gotten good advice.

Just a few of th things you said that stuck out:

1She went fir coffee twice with a guy and didn't know they were dates.

That is just flat out bull ****.
So you know you are being lied to.

2 she has been texting and doing things with two guys-/ that she told you about. Again, bs.

3 She abandons you during her vacation--/ certainly you don't think she was alone the whole time?

4 she's told you she is moving out.
Women that are in love don't move out.

What to do:

Accept she is not the one you should marry, she is no longer in love with you, is stringing you along for who kibbles and security until she replaces you (you already know this).
I know how hard it is and how hurtful it is. But you have got to dump her and move on.
You sound like a man that lots of women would want to date. Don't foolishly think there's something special about this one. There isn't. Do you know how I know? Because I can tell you exactly what she's going to do in the next 4 months.

Tell her you are done. That you have been loyal to her when she's shown you nothing but betrayal.
Ask for the ring back. You are not a man who has to tolerate a fiancée who dates other men.
Mean it. Be dine with her. If you don't, you're going to be in daily misery until she finally dumps you.
Sir, you CAN replace her.
The only value she has in your mind, is value that you give her.
She should be rapidly depreciating in your mind after what she is doing.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 11:56 PM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lars265 View Post
Alongside, I found out she has been bantering with another coworker that she says she is not interested in for about a year. I confronted her earlier and she stated it was just fun. She also said she did meet someone that she was interested in and had been on a two coffee meetings with him, though she tried to say she didn't know it was a date. I get the sense she has been lining up my replacement.

Please help, lay down the truth, smack me in the face, whatever it is!
This is not a fiancée.
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 12:15 AM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Establish full transparency and sharing all passwords without complaint.

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 12:31 AM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Lars you are not married and you don't have kids.

Your fiancee is not committed to a relationship.

Go look in the mirror. Make that man the best man he can be for himself.

Terminate the relationship with the woman who has you 3rd, 4th, 5th ? in her line of priority.

When does you lease expire? On that date YOU move out.

Never have contact with this disordered person again. All she will do is drag you down to the soul sucking place of limbo.

End this relationship now and learn to be a better man. I recommend Hold On to Your N.U.T.S. by Wayne Levine.

Become an authentic man and send this woman packing.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 02:20 AM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lars265 View Post
Hello,

In a lot of pain and confusion right now. Open to any thoughts and suggestions.

My fiancee and I are both currently 30. We started dating 6 years ago, got engaged 3 years ago. She is my first love, and to her I am her first serious relationship.

A month ago she told me she was unhappy in the relationship and doesn't know why because I'm just a "great guy". Logically, she thinks she should be with me because I take care of her, but emotionally she says she wants someone feels intimate with. She says it is a lot of work and she doesn't know if she wants to try again. She said she wanted a man who she wants to kiss, who takes charge. We had been through something similar 2 years ago. At the time she didn't feel I was supporting her goals, and since then I've bent head over heels to support her as best as I can, which she has been grateful for. However, that caused me to be her butler and I forgot the court and date her.

Unfortunately, communication isn't our best suit. She has a tendency to get upset when I try to get her to open up, and I, afraid of upsetting her,
don't often pursue. I think over time she started to lose attraction for me because I was not emotionally in tune and focused too much on sex, thinking everything was great. I acted too needy and a pleaser and I believe that was why she lost her feelings for me. In addtion, we are both introverts and don't socialize much outside of each other, which may have led to me smothering her with what I thought would keep her happy. It also doesn't help that her only friends are guy friends, who I'm sure are interested in her because she is beautiful.

Alongside, I found out she has been bantering with another coworker that she says she is not interested in for about a year. I confronted her earlier and she stated it was just fun. She also said she did meet someone that she was interested in and had been on a two coffee meetings with him, though she tried to say she didn't know it was a date. I get the sense she has been lining up my replacement.

When she had told me this in the beginning, I made mistakes by trying to reason and plead with her to give us another chance. I seriously was caught off guard but after reading online, etc, I realize this was not a good move and likely further lowered my attraction to her. I also began to realize all the mistakes I made and I wanted to fix it. She stated we can try, but she is looking for apartments so she doesn't feel like she is stuck.

So I decided to act more like a man and let her do what she wants, pretending it doesn't bother me and trying to give myself the mindset that I know my value and she can leave if she wants to. Last week, we started to get closer again to the point where we would cuddle together in bed. I felt like things were turning up, which was surprising to me since a week ago I thought she had lost interest completely. But the next day when I dropped her off at the airport I told her that I do not care if she sees/flirts with other guys, but that it is testing me and if she messes it up with me I will walk away. I tried to show strength and that statement brought her to tears. During her vacation she gave me the silent treatment, though I can tell she was texting the guys mentioned above. I feel like I made a mistake because I was just getting her to open up again but stupidly brought the drama back at the worse time ever.

Anyway, she is back and i'm trying to get her to open up to me emotionally since she obviously shut me out during that week. At the same time I am worried that if I keep probing her to open up she will always associate the negative feelings with me, pushing her further away to avoid these hurtful feelings. She hasn't found an apartment yet but is looking for one in June, which puts time pressure for me to reattract her to stay through my actions.

I love this girl more than anything, but I'm trying to date/court her again and try to help her develop attraction for me, without forcing it. I feel that I need to make myself more scarce in order to give her space, be less needy, and show her that my life will go on and to give her a chance to miss me. But I do fear she will leave if I start to neglect her like this since her interest is so low already. I had a date planned on Saturday which she is open to, though her interest is clearly low.

Apologies if the above is scrambled. I know 6 years isn't THAT long and we aren't even married, but I haven't felt this much pain, agony, and heartache ever before. I know this experience will teach me to be a better man instead of a needy pleaser that I was, but I love this girl to no end. The other aspects of my life (career, etc) are fantastic and I am a confident professional in those areas, but when I'm with her I sort of lose myself and smother her.

Please help, lay down the truth, smack me in the face, whatever it is!
Of course this is painful, you have built a life together and thought she was in your future.
Maybe she expected more of a committment from you such as marriage?

First you cannot nice her back. a needy man is a major turnoff for a woman. You have basically sent her the message that you are always available no matter how badly she treats you

YOu have to consider whether you want to be married to someone like this
She has met someone else or is on the lookout you are not her priority anymore.
Do the 180 hard for yourself, you have to focus on yourself, you cannot change her. However the 180 might show her what she is about to miss.
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 06:54 AM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

The best thing you can do is tell her best of luck in your new venture, then let her go.
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 09:37 AM
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

Sigh...

Without women, men would kill each other.
With women, men trip over their own big feet, fall and kill themselves.

Damn you and your puzzies!!

Live, flutch and die.

Gotta Love It.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Re: She is drifting away, how can I save it?

I talked to her last night and I broke it off. She opened up to me and basically told me she thinks I deserve someone who can really love me. We talked about all the things that I did that irritated her, including her not feeling she can open up to me, etc. We talked about all the things she has done. She said she really tried these past two years to fall back in love with me, but I am upset because it takes two people to meet each others needs and I was never part of this. I didn't have a chance to meet her needs due to poor communication. This was the first real conversation we've had about our relationship in 1.5 years.

She says she still does love me but needs some time to be alone and learn to love herself. I should share she does have a lot of self-esteem and self-confidence issues, which I've tried to help with but probably made worse with my parental actions. She is very high achieving but still has self-doubt that I thought I'd be able to help with by supporting her. Seems she was also drawn to the validation from these other guys when I don't provide, which gets her into these messy situations. She isn't the type of girl to sleep around, but emotional infidelity is still a problem. I laid out my terms if we were to continue, but she said she thinks she should learn to be alone. She is looking at apartments today and will move out asap. I would leave but the unit is owned by me. It hurts to see her in pain and not be able to help, but this is probably for the best. I'm moving on and working on myself.

This has been an eye-opening experience for me. Essentially my first break-up, at age 30, hah. I'm curious what the best thing is for a girl in her situation. She is not happy with herself, not proud that she was drawn to other guys, that she has low self-esteem and self-confidence, and that she can't love me the way I love her. I don't believe she is a "bad' person at all, but just lost. What is the best way for girls like this to get themselves back on track? I am hoping to give her some ideas when she moves out. I truly want her to be happy, even if it is not with me.

Thank you all for your thoughts. Time to grow some balls.

Last edited by lars265; 04-14-2017 at 10:35 AM.
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