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Adults on the spectrum?

2K views 14 replies 6 participants last post by  Ursula 
#1 ·
I've been going through "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay", which I think is pretty fantastic! Prior to that, I had been weighing pros and cons for leaving versus staying, and it was driving me nuts, and not clarifying anything. The book asks questions in a simple manner, which I've been writing the answers to in a Word document.

On Friday, I saw my therapist because I'm getting closer to an answer, and wanted to share my new findings with her. I printed out my Word doc in case she wanted to see it. While talking and going through things, she asked me if H has been diagnosed with high-functioning autism. I said no, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he were. It would explain a lot, that's for sure. The man is brilliant! He's brilliant book-wise, and career-wise, but when it comes to everyday things and social skills, that brilliancy goes away, and he becomes very awkward. It's uncomfortable when he interjects into conversations with things that have nothing to do with what's going on. Example: we were out for supper with my folks not too long ago. I can't remember what we were talking about, but it had nothing to do with what H brought up, which was the poo emoticon, and making that into earrings for women, and how popular those would be. It kind of stunned us all into confused silence!

I also mentioned to my therapist why I think I'm not into intimacy with H, and that's because when he first moved in with me, he went into roommate mode. Example: he would pick through the pile of dirty dishes, wash the ones he used and leave the rest for me; laundry… he'd wash up the towels he used and leave the rest for me to do. For my mistake, I let this go on for about a month, way too long. I made up excuses of "maybe he's tired, maybe he's too busy", etc., which I shared with my therapist. She countered with the best words I've heard in awhile: "you know, you're working really hard to excuse a lot of really odd behaviour". Yeah, I am.

So, I'm researching adults on the spectrum for the next little while. Anyone have any idea where the heck to start with this?
 
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#2 ·
It's complex. Manifests in many different ways. There's an interesting book written by a self-proclaimed aspie who nonetheless succeeded in life. IMO, some of what he says is due to asperger's is just what it was like being a nerd in the 70s, and some has to do with his abusive parents. But there's some there that looks like genuine asd to me - including him being unable to stay with a conversation if it doesn't interest him, leading him to blurt out things not relevant to the conversation. The book is called "Look Me In the Eye" and is, in its way, quite hilarious.

Ultimately, there are three possible approaches for you:
1) Seek to help him act more normally. Currently, the "asd awareness" community claims this cannot be done
2) Accept him for who he is and help your family do so
3) Decide it's too much of a compromise for you, leave, and hope to find a normal adult male...not that I'm one or have ever met one.


The roommate thing seems odd...of the aspies I know, I haven't heard of this one.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the book rec, @DustyDog; I'll have a look on Amazon. As to your suggestions, I've tried to help him to act more normally in social situations by explaining that it's nice to ask others about themselves and what they do for work, instead of just talking about oneself, and that's how you get to know others and make friends. His Mom, unfortunately, never taught her kids this because she was a single mother working hard to make a life for her and her kids. All H said was that he would've asked what so-and-so does for a living, but didn't want to make him feel like less of a person. This was after a certain social situation at a friend's house. So, my tactic obviously didn't work! As to meeting another "normal" adult male, that term is a little off because no one is 100% normal. The thing that I would be doing is searching for someone who compliments me a little more; who wants what I want in life, and who is a little more stable.
 
#5 ·
I've tried to help him to act more normally in social situations by explaining that it's nice to ask others about themselves and what they do for work, instead of just talking about oneself, and that's how you get to know others and make friends. His Mom, unfortunately, never taught her kids this because she was a single mother working hard to make a life for her and her kids. All H said was that he would've asked what so-and-so does for a living, but didn't want to make him feel like less of a person. This was after a certain social situation at a friend's house. So, my tactic obviously didn't work! As to meeting another "normal" adult male, that term is a little off because no one is 100% normal. The thing that I would be doing is searching for someone who compliments me a little more; who wants what I want in life, and who is a little more stable.
Indeed, you got my point about "normal".

My point on helping him to act normally is this - it may not be possible. I don't know the neuroscience behind such things but from what I've read, people on this spectrum do not accept "advice".

Actually, the worst way to teach even a "neurotypical" is by talking to them. There's some Shakespearean quote or something like that - if you tell people something, they will remember, at most, one point. If you give it to them in writing, your chances double but still stink.

If you cause them to repeat it back to you, such as by quizzing them, they'll remember a lot more of it, since they got actively involved in the info - but the likelihood of retention long enough to be useful is still nil.

Getting them to actually DO it is the way to get anybody to learn anything. That's why, when teaching social skills, leaders often set up mock situations.


I've got ADHD...one of my therapists said it's such an extreme case that it's amazing I ever survived a job interview. I actually love job interviews...anything that stimulates keeps me interested. I can "learn" the practice of focus, but my internal ADHD, no matter how much "learning" I do, is always going to snap to attention when something new comes on the scene...distractibility is not avoidable for me. This also makes it very hard - nay - impossible - for me to continue listening to someone if they don't come to the point in a few sentences. Or, better yet, follow the advice of most professional communications coaches and start your speaking with your conclusion, rather than reciting a chronological sequence - which is useful only for thriller novels, actually.

Because of my difficulties staying with boring conversations, I missed a LOT of social cues. And I 100% identify with your husband's reply - I have no clue what questions are acceptable!!

I knew a few...don't ask a woman her weight or age. And never ask anybody how much they earn. To that end, since most of us know in general terms, what a career pays, it does feel a bit touchy-feely to ask what a person does for a living. That's rarely interesting anyway, to me, what's more important is what a person chooses to do when money isn't the object!

Anyway, be prepared for much of what bothers you to be unchangeable. And...perhaps seek a counselor that understands this disorder so that you and he can figure out what can be changed and what you have to accept as is.
 
#6 ·
@Ursula If your husband has high functioning autism, you can't just "hint" at things you want changed in his behavior but you need to be very direct, logical, and provide a great deal of ongoing feedback. It also helps to try and put more emphasis on the positive things and talk to him about simple behaviors that will improve the quality of life for the two of you.

Regarding dishes. Thank him for washing this dishes and helping, even if they are ONLY his. Then ask him if perhaps it would be more efficient for just one person to do all the dishes and take turns. This way it does not require both of you to start/stop washing dishes each day as part of your routines and should help free up more time for both of you to relax and enjoy some personal space when it is the other person's turn. THAT he will understand, but if you start talking about how your feelings get all tangled up in the sink he will only get frustrated that 1) you never mentioned this before & 2) that you are taking up time describing a problem while perhaps offering no solution.

When implementing changes regarding the dishes do NOT make these changes instantaneously. Have them go into effect in a few days once he has agreed to a schedule.

Odds are your husband would gladly do things to make you happy, but at the moment he is likely behaving the way his family raised him. Perhaps he was taught that it was fair if everyone rinsed/washed their own dishes and did their own laundry, and his family growing up decided that method worked best for them. If that is the case and he continues to do so, he is trying to show you a high level of respect based on the engrained behaviors that he was taught as a child.

I'll be glad to try and help. I just caught this thread today by searching for autism within TAM. Feel free to pm me if you want as well.

Regards,
Badsanta
 
#7 ·
Thanks @badsanta! Right after my therapist asked if he's on the spectrum, I realized that if he is, I'm handling everything wrong, and that he needs to be handled in a totally different manner, which changes everything, and explains A LOT. He's never been the type to "get" hints, and I've since learned to be much more direct with him, which he hates. He usually says that I'm too blunt and need to be more positive, but I find that sugarcoating things isn't understood, so I have to be blunt. On the positivity note, that's definitely something I can stand to work on.

The dishes/laundry issues have been fixed for a long time, but yes, at the time, it took him time to grasp the concepts. I never thought about it as that might be how his Mom raised them; to only do their own dishes and laundry, and that he was trying to show me a high level of respect by cleaning the things that he dirtied. I took this as a roommate situation when it was presented to me, and that, combined with sex pretty much stopping, made me think of him as such, and that's how I continue to view our relationship: he's my roommate who happens to also share a bed with me.

Just for the record though, I'm the type of woman who will always offer a solution to a problem. This is also something that irks him, and he's even said that sometimes, he just wants to vent; he doesn't want a solution. So, this is something that I've tried to not do so much.

And yes, he is someone who very much just wants to please me, and I wish to God that his tactics were working because I'm still fairly unhappy in the marriage. It just breaks my heart to admit defeat, to hurt him, to disappoint our families and those around us. And now this: the possibility that he may be undiagnosed on the spectrum, and really doesn't understand the things around him. Leaving him would be so self-centered of me.

As a final note, I don't really feel comfortable asking him if he knows if he's on the spectrum, but for both of our sakes, I would like to know. How do I go about finding out? Do I have a right to just come out and ask? Something I just thought of: the first time I met one of his cousins, I thought that he was autistic, and possibly a little bit down-syndrome. Afterwards, I commented on how far this guy has come in his successful career, given his disability, and how awesome that was. H was confused… "His disability? What disability?". I said, "well, isn't he autistic?". Nope, apparently not, although he could be undiagnosed.
 
#10 ·
As a final note, I don't really feel comfortable asking him if he knows if he's on the spectrum, but for both of our sakes, I would like to know. How do I go about finding out? Do I have a right to just come out and ask? Something I just thought of: the first time I met one of his cousins, I thought that he was autistic, and possibly a little bit down-syndrome. Afterwards, I commented on how far this guy has come in his successful career, given his disability, and how awesome that was. H was confused… "His disability? What disability?". I said, "well, isn't he autistic?". Nope, apparently not, although he could be undiagnosed.
Those with autism that are very high functioning and rather brilliant will likely never see their disposition as a "disability." He may even be self aware of things that perhaps do make him very different and may even value that he does not care to deal with all the mumbo/jumbo intricacies of learning the elegance and art forms of social etiquette. If your husband sits down to a family meal and starts eating before everyone is served, he likely feels proud of himself for being brave enough to go ahead and enjoy the meal while it is nice and warm while everyone else's plate just sits and gets cold.

If he does not like you giving him solutions, perhaps HE may actually enjoy using his logic to help determine a solution. In the event you do not like his solution, compliment him for it and then tell him you think he is smart enough to come up with even a better one as a challenge. Then just let him rattle off different solutions to a problem until you find one that you like.

THINGS TO WATCH OUT FOR:
Sensory issues. All of your husband's senses may be much more sensitive than your average person. Generally someone with autism may have trouble filtering out distractions from an environment such as light, noise, temperature, smell, moisture, or background conversations. In the event he seems distracted, ask if he is able to hear you OK before you start talking about something important as he may need to moment to help shift his attention towards you if something is distracting him.

Stims. This is a repetitive behavior that is comforting (reduces anxiety) and drastically reduces background disturbances. For example, if you husband fidgets with his hands by clicking a pen, this actually helps him focus on you. I have a child with autism and when I try to fuss at him about something upsetting, he will turn his head away and start humming. I get even more upset that he is not listening, but then he repeats every single word I have said for the past few minutes. In this case he struggles with eye contact and humming helps him focus because it calms him down in stressful situations. So your husband may display behaviors that make him appear like he is not paying any attention to you, but in reality these behaviors help him focus and listen to you. Because he is staring away (if he does this) is because autistic people are extremely analytical and he is mostly observing his mind processing everything you say in a rather profound way. If he seems like he is not understanding what you are telling him, it is more likely that he thinks whatever you are telling him is illogical/uninteresting and just not worth arguing/talking about. So when talking to him, make sure you have his attention, get to the point, THEN embellish the conversation with your feelings on the topic.

Scheduling. Autistic people like when things are planned and logical. In the event you need him to be flexible and go with the flow, tell him well ahead of time so that he can get mentally prepared for any pending events scheduled to be reprioritized and set aside.
 
#8 ·
Re: Adults on the spectrum

Hope I'm not confusing you with someone else but didn't your husband live at home and not have an intimate relationship until he met you when he was 40-ish? He's probably clueless whether he's on the spectrum (if he really is -- and I've felt from your other posts that he certainly could be) so asking him probably won't help. Would he see the benefit in being evaluated (some do and some don't)?
 
#9 ·
Re: Adults on the spectrum

Hey Openminded, you're correct; you have the right person. He had, as far as I know, a shared non-sexual relationship with his best friend and that guy's girlfriend. He also dated someone who was scared of having sex; they tried once, and it hurt her too much, so they stopped and didn't try again. He left home at 43.

I think he (and I) would see the benefit in being evaluated, yes, but whether or not he would go to be evaluated is another matter; I'm not sure that he would choose to go.

Hope I'm not confusing you with someone else but didn't your husband live at home and not have an intimate relationship until he met you when he was 40-ish? He's probably clueless whether he's on the spectrum (if he really is -- and I've felt from your other posts that he certainly could be) so asking him probably won't help. Would he see the benefit in being evaluated (some do and some don't)?
 
#11 ·
Speaking of laundry....

Some normal men only do their own.

Why?

Uh, umm.

Some husbands wash everything in hot water, using the normal cycle [not gentle] and use too much or too little detergent or bleach.

After many scoldings...these HB's are "ordered" to do only their own. My workout clothes are sweaty, my yard-work clothes are muddy and I want clothes really clean.
Hot water used in the washer equals hot water....for me by my wife.

The old dog, no new tricks thing...uh, huh!


Just Sayin'
 
#12 ·
Hey SunCMars, Before H moved into my home, one thing we agreed on was that we'll wash our own clothes. H is WAY more particular than me with his laundry, and has a white load, a dark load, an underwear load, and a load for jeans. I throw everything into 1 load! It was just the towel thing that I found odd.

Here's something I thought of while doing chores tonight. Would it be horrible to mention to H that I read an article about aspergers on the web the other day, and that it mentions brilliant people. H has a few brilliant people in his family, his Dad and himself are among them. And, I was then thinking of trying to casually ask if he knows if aspergers is anywhere in his family. Does that sound awful, or do you guys think it would be helpful?
 
#13 ·
Here's something I thought of while doing chores tonight. Would it be horrible to mention to H that I read an article about aspergers on the web the other day, and that it mentions brilliant people. H has a few brilliant people in his family, his Dad and himself are among them. And, I was then thinking of trying to casually ask if he knows if aspergers is anywhere in his family. Does that sound awful, or do you guys think it would be helpful?
In the event you and your family watch TV together, there is a very good show called "Parenthood" in which one character has aspergers and it dramatizes how families deal with it. In this case the individual is fairly high functioning but needs special care. The producers of the show made it a point to bring in therapists to coach all the actors. It was this show that made my wife and I realize what was going on with our son, as he displayed the behaviors portrayed in this show.

I just checked and all the seasons of this series in included on Netflix https://www.netflix.com/title/70157304 The show also addresses a lot of other marital and family issues that can make good discussion topics. You can simply talk about the characters in the show without your husband realizing that you may be talking about him.

Not only that, but it is an incredibly well produced show and entertaining to watch!

Regards,
Badsanta
 
#14 ·
Here's an interesting story of a guy with Asperger's who had a trial treatment which activated his emotional ability: Getting Emotions 'Switched On' After Decades Of Asperger’s. It might give you some insight into your situation.

It's doubtful that you will be able to wake up his emotional center. He's more like a computer in that way. You can tell him "When you're in this situation, act this way" and he'll change his behavior (sometimes), but it's just him plugging in the proper response. He doesn't feel what the right response would be like other people.

That part of him won't really change. You'll have to guide him to how you want him to act. It's unlikely that he'll be able to read you and figure out what to do.
 
#15 · (Edited)
We've been going through that "feeling good together" book, and took our first marriage satisfaction survey at the end of February. We started reading the book together, and talking about it chapter by chapter a couple weeks after that. H got busy with work, so working through the book was put to the side. We finally got to chapter 3 last night, and H said something that blew my mind. I'm not sure if he actually IS high-functioning autism, or if he was just being daft, but he thought for some reason that we've only been working through the book for 2-3 weeks. In fact, it's been about 8 weeks, going on 9. He was shocked. Like, visibly shaken to know that info when he realized it was true. He also flew through the chapter, and made comments about the points in it being true generally for relationships. I think we should probably be focussing more on us though, rather than society in general. Does this sound like an asperger's/spectrum thing?

ETA: the subject of sex also came up, and he mentioned that we haven't done that in a couple weeks. I apologized, because that's totally my fault. I explained to him that it's an emotional thing for me (like for a lot of women), and I find it to be a difficult thing to do with someone that I don't feel that way towards. He had no reaction, but he at least now knows. I think. I've told him before, but I didn't think he understood back then.

Thanks @badsanta, I'll have a look at the Parenthood show; that might help a bit if we watch it together.
Thanks as well to @wilson; that article was really interesting!
 
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