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post #136 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:25 PM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Originally Posted by commonsenseisn't View Post
We have rendered numerous opinions on what the OP should have done in the original exchange between him and his wife.
Your right so my next exchange would be "wife when you come back I think we should go to marriage counseling because something is very wrong that you think it's OK to go away on our 25th wedding anniversary."

If my wife asked me that (which she wouldn't because she would know I would look at her like she had 2 heads) but say she did my answer would be nope, and I am going to find us a counselor because how you could not know me well enough or just not have common sense enough, or just not care about our great milestone, says to me that we do not communicate at all. It also says that I have no idea who you are.

OP you should be very insulted. **** I am insulted for you.

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post #137 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:41 PM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

Wow I remember the day I found out I was the bottom priority. Sorry man.

Still 25 years of marriage is a nice accomplishment I will never see. I hope you at least get to go to dinner with friends or something .
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post #138 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 01:32 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Your right so my next exchange would be "wife when you come back I think we should go to marriage counseling because something is very wrong that you think it's OK to go away on our 25th wedding anniversary."

If my wife asked me that (which she wouldn't because she would know I would look at her like she had 2 heads) but say she did my answer would be nope, and I am going to find us a counselor because how you could not know me well enough or just not have common sense enough, or just not care about our great milestone, says to me that we do not communicate at all. It also says that I have no idea who you are.

OP you should be very insulted. **** I am insulted for you.
The biggest problem the op has is that both his wife and her friends have no problem trampling over his feelings,they book a vacation in a condo that one of them owns on the very week of their silver anniversary and tell him after the fact,which in my opinion is not a good sign.In plain English she doesn't give a **** about him or his feelings and she will do what she wants and make him feel guilty for trying to discuss it in a reasonable manner.WTF!
It has been suggested they compromise by another poster,what is the betting her idea of compromising is to do exactly what she was going to do in the first place.He needs to talk to someone he can trust and ask them to be brutally honest about what people think about his wife and his marriage because I think he is in for a shock.
I'm not married so anyone can tell me I don't have any business discussing someone else's.I do know when I or someone else is being disrespected and I would go as far as saying the op is not only being disrespected but emasculated as well.
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post #139 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 01:51 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

Thought I would chime in with my tuppence worth …


The 25th wedding anniversary IS A BIG DEAL for many couples (especially these days where 50th wedding anniversaries are like gold dust).


You sometimes try and defend her and then renew your negative feelings at the same time. You need to decide how you really feel about this. She is either behaving badly or not! I sense that you really think that she is behaving badly but are dealing with this in a passive aggressive manner (not unusual - so would many of us).


Many posters here are trying to justify this behaviour as normal by saying some people don't really think of these events as important. There is both truth and false justification in this - the truth is that I agree, many spouses don't attach a lot of importance to these sort of events, not when compared to something else they want to do. The false justification is that she is not emotional or sentimental etc - people are not using the right word to describe her which is SELFISH when it comes to what she wants to do. No selflessness, no sacrifice etc. Your wife is SELFISH.


I also agree that the damage has already been done. I am finding it hard to believe that she hasn't committed other selfish acts during your relationship and that you haven't noticed these. You must understand who you are married to by now. So why bring up this particular instance ? If it were me, I would be thinking "oh, oh the Hawaii trip for her can only happen on our anniversary, our anniversary is toast!" - a question of knowing your spouse. You have already made her aware of the fact that you value the anniversary and you said she already knows and will "feel bad" on the day - but obviously not bad enough.


So in conclusion, I would say the real issue here is that you have put up with her for all these years - why ? This is surely not new behaviour for her. As to what I would do, I must admit that I agree with going dark or taking your own holiday, but I would do this in the context of this is the kind of person I am married to and have put up with this for many years. And I would do this ONLY if I realise that this is who she is and for some reason have chosen to stay. ELSE I would have a different discussion with her as to just how much she values your marriage and how selfish she is!

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post #140 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:15 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

.

Last edited by Decorum; 05-18-2017 at 02:19 AM.
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post #141 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:58 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

Have you said anything to her yet?

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

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post #142 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 05:38 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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This is true. At the time I thought there was enough sarcasm in my voice to be clear I wasn't cool with it, but people here what they want to here. And ya, I lied to not look like a controlling jerk. You may have noticed that I can come off a little blunt if I don't actively keep myself in check.
You lied so your wife does not think you are a controlling jerk. Because you do not want to piss her off, for some reason. Try being blunt with her, at least it's honest.

It seems she is the leader in this marriage.
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post #143 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 05:53 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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You lied so your wife does not think you are a controlling jerk. Because you do not want to piss her off, for some reason. Try being blunt with her, at least it's honest.

It seems she is the leader in this marriage.
I agree. She seems like the emotionally stronger person--more independent, less reactive.

WOM seems to want her to take responsibility for his feelings--to intuit what they are, to do what is going to make him feel safe and loved, and to make it up to him if she does not.

And when she does not follow that script, he is hurt and resentful. And then he employs the passive aggression.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #144 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 06:34 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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I agree. She seems like the emotionally stronger person--more independent, less reactive.

WOM seems to want her to take responsibility for his feelings--to intuit what they are, to do what is going to make him feel safe and loved, and to make it up to him if she does not.

And when she does not follow that script, he is hurt and resentful. And then he employs the passive aggression.
This is your second description of sensitive.So what is a man supposed to do in this situation.If he expects his wife to acknowledge his feelings without spelling it out to her you see him as the weak link in the marriage.If he tells her straight out that he doesn't want her to go on this trip you also see him as weak.If he lets her go without any more discussion you see him as passive aggressive.Either way he is wrong in your estimation.
Your idea of compromising in this situation is that he stands back and let's his wife and her friends walk over him.Then apologise for being so sensitive as to suggest maybe his wife might like to celebrate their silver wedding anniversary together rather than thousands of miles apart.
You can't argue all sides at the same time,he is either weak or not,he is either sensitive or not.
You spelled out before in another thread how you would describe a sensitive man but you weren't clear on your opinion,I would genuinely like to know as I have been called an insensitive prick before.
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post #145 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 06:43 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

Quote:
Originally Posted by manfromlamancha View Post
Thought I would chime in with my tuppence worth …


The 25th wedding anniversary IS A BIG DEAL for many couples (especially these days where 50th wedding anniversaries are like gold dust).


You sometimes try and defend her and then renew your negative feelings at the same time. You need to decide how you really feel about this. She is either behaving badly or not! I sense that you really think that she is behaving badly but are dealing with this in a passive aggressive manner (not unusual - so would many of us).


Many posters here are trying to justify this behaviour as normal by saying some people don't really think of these events as important. There is both truth and false justification in this - the truth is that I agree, many spouses don't attach a lot of importance to these sort of events, not when compared to something else they want to do. The false justification is that she is not emotional or sentimental etc - people are not using the right word to describe her which is SELFISH when it comes to what she wants to do. No selflessness, no sacrifice etc. Your wife is SELFISH.


I also agree that the damage has already been done. I am finding it hard to believe that she hasn't committed other selfish acts during your relationship and that you haven't noticed these. You must understand who you are married to by now. So why bring up this particular instance ? If it were me, I would be thinking "oh, oh the Hawaii trip for her can only happen on our anniversary, our anniversary is toast!" - a question of knowing your spouse. You have already made her aware of the fact that you value the anniversary and you said she already knows and will "feel bad" on the day - but obviously not bad enough.


So in conclusion, I would say the real issue here is that you have put up with her for all these years - why ? This is surely not new behaviour for her. As to what I would do, I must admit that I agree with going dark or taking your own holiday, but I would do this in the context of this is the kind of person I am married to and have put up with this for many years. And I would do this ONLY if I realise that this is who she is and for some reason have chosen to stay. ELSE I would have a different discussion with her as to just how much she values your marriage and how selfish she is!

:i agree::iag ree:

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post #146 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 07:15 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Originally Posted by Andy1001 View Post
This is your second description of sensitive.So what is a man supposed to do in this situation.If he expects his wife to acknowledge his feelings without spelling it out to her you see him as the weak link in the marriage.If he tells her straight out that he doesn't want her to go on this trip you also see him as weak.If he lets her go without any more discussion you see him as passive aggressive.Either way he is wrong in your estimation.
Your idea of compromising in this situation is that he stands back and let's his wife and her friends walk over him.Then apologise for being so sensitive as to suggest maybe his wife might like to celebrate their silver wedding anniversary together rather than thousands of miles apart.
You can't argue all sides at the same time,he is either weak or not,he is either sensitive or not.
You spelled out before in another thread how you would describe a sensitive man but you weren't clear on your opinion,I would genuinely like to know as I have been called an insensitive prick before.
I don't think you seem insensitive. (I do think you have a fear of being "walked on," however.) I guess I would have to know the context of that remark, though.

I think you are making a lot of claims here that are not backed up by anything I have written. But please feel free to provide quotes from me if you disagree, and we can discuss.

I have consistently said that he needs to tell her exactly how he feels, and to be open to her feelings, too. We do not know the entirety of their marriage. They do.

I think they can work this out. And it starts with clear, direct communication.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #147 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 07:26 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

If a man has to tell his wife that she shouldn't make plans, which don't include him, on their 25th anniversary.......

“The time's gone by for sentiment and all that foolery. Mercy's all very well but after all it's justice that clinches the bargain.”


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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post #148 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 07:29 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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I don't think you seem insensitive. (I do think you have a fear of being "walked on," however.) I guess I would have to know the context of that remark, though.

I think you are making a lot of claims here that are not backed up by anything I have written. But please feel free to provide quotes from me if you disagree, and we can discuss.

I have consistently said that he needs to tell her exactly how he feels, and to be open to her feelings, too. We do not know the entirety of their marriage. They do.

I think they can work this out. And it starts with clear, direct communication.
In the thread Alpha v Beta men,post 127 you gave your two descriptions of sensitive men.
1.Men who are easily hurt,who look for women to soothe and comfortable them and get resentful if it doesn't happen.
2.Men who are sensitive to the feelings of others but do not take offence easily themselves.
I can't link the post on an iPad, sorry.
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post #149 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 07:42 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

I don't think she very vested in your marriage.

she just don't care enough to even celebrate 25 yrs together. she prioritizes her friend more than her husband.

on your 50th maybe she will go to bingo with her friends instead of celebrating and rejoicing the long happy marriage she had with you.

is she on the spectrum of autism/Aspergers?
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post #150 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 08:21 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Originally Posted by Andy1001 View Post
In the thread Alpha v Beta men,post 127 you gave your two descriptions of sensitive men.
1.Men who are easily hurt,who look for women to soothe and comfortable them and get resentful if it doesn't happen.
2.Men who are sensitive to the feelings of others but do not take offence easily themselves.
I can't link the post on an iPad, sorry.
Yes, I remember this. It could be said about women, too, btw.

These are simply two different interpretations of the word "sensitive." One means sensitive to oneself, and the other means sensitive to others.

The person who is sensitive to his or her own feelings first and foremost is likely the emotional dependent in the relationship. He or she often looks to the partner to soothe their hurt feelings, and possibly even intuit them.

When they are soothed and nurtured, they usually calm down and may be able to be open to the feelings of their partner, too. But without first being soothed by the partner, they may never feel safe enough to hear their partner's side of things. They need acknowledgement of their feelings first.

The person who is sensitive to others, without taking offense easily, is usually the emotional leader in the relationship. This person, male or female, is more easily able to hear a partner's hurt and soothe them without needing it right away themselves. They acknowledge the hurt feelings of the partner, and may explain why they did what they did.

Once the emotional leader has explained, the dependent often realizes that the action taken that hurt him or her was not done with malice. Hearing that there was no intention to cause pain is usually very healing in itself. The dependent wants to feel loved and safe with his or her partner. Hearing the perspective of the partner, and getting an apology, if appropriate, usually accomplishes that.

Andy, does this answer your question?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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