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post #61 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 06:37 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Andy, if they are indeed having difficulty in the relationship, and OP does anything that basically sends a big **** you! message to his wife, it is likely to make the fundamentals even worse. And then there will surely not be any genuinely happy anniversary celebration.

I know it is hard to take a step back and consider things from a non-reactive standpoint. And it can certainly feel helpful to blow off some steam first. But to really solve this problem, and begin to address whatever fundamentals may not be healthy, one of them is likely going to have to assume a leadership role.

That means temporarily setting aside their emotions and seeking to understand the viewpoint of the other person, very likely before explaining their own. And from there the idea would be to come up with a plan that both can be reasonably happy with.
Where did I say tell her **** you?
I am advising him to tell her enjoy herself and he will do likewise.I don't mean for him to be passive aggressive about this but make his position clear, he is not prepared to sit at home while his wife goes on a girl's only trip to Hawaii.
You tell me honestly if in two years time Dug tells you he is going to watch the Tour De France instead of accompanying you to Hawaii you would be so understanding about it.His wife's friends OWN the condo and I find it very hard to believe that this is the only week they can get away.Why doesn't she suggest both of them go another week instead.Her waiting for him to leave and then texting him is a ****ty move,she hadn't the courage to talk face to face with him.
You sometimes have to call a spade a spade in this life and she is treating her husband badly and he should spell it out to her in words capable of one interpretation only.

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post #62 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 06:38 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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It's the Silver Wedding Anniversary! Half way to Gold, so, yes, it is a big deal for most couples!

Hawaii will not disappear, the condo will remain standing for several more years to come.

But there will be no Silver Wedding anniversary again. That's a once in a lifetime deal.
Thing is, she may see the window for celebrating it as much larger than he does. Just like not everyone celebrates their birthday on the exact day, but on the nearest weekend or holiday, she might think they can celebrate their anniversary before or after the actual date.

For our 25th, we are planning a trip to Hawaii sometime during the 25th year, for example. It may easily be 7 or 8 months or even a bit after that, according to what will work for our schedules.

Again, communication is definitely needed here. They may just be working from different standards, without any ill intentions.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #63 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 06:39 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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The bolded may indeed be how his wife sees it. That is why it is so important for them to communicate honestly and openly about this. It could really clear the air.



Because it would need to come from his heart to feel meaningful to her, just like whatever she does for him needs to come from her heart to feel meaningful to him. That is my guess, anyway.

This post does raise a thought-provoking but possibly painful question: If she is not prioritizing this milestone, does the reason why have anything to do with the state of the relationship?



Your comment made me think of something. Maybe his wife doesn't want to celebrate 25 years of marriage. If she is unhappy and their relationship is struggling maybe pretending to be excited about their 25th is more than she wants to deal with. Maybe the thought of spending an entire day holding hands and playing romantic is so false to her she asked her friend if she could come to Hawaii to visit. If she feels there's nothing worth celebrating the day holds nothing but gloom and stress for her.
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post #64 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 06:48 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Your comment made me think of something. Maybe his wife doesn't want to celebrate 25 years of marriage. If she is unhappy and their relationship is struggling maybe pretending to be excited about their 25th is more than she wants to deal with. Maybe the thought of spending an entire day holding hands and playing romantic is so false to her she asked her friend if she could come to Hawaii to visit. If she feels there's nothing worth celebrating the day holds nothing but gloom and stress for her.
Or is this her, perchance?


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post #65 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 06:50 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Where did I say tell her **** you?
I am advising him to tell her enjoy herself and he will do likewise.I don't mean for him to be passive aggressive about this but make his position clear, he is not prepared to sit at home while his wife goes on a girl's only trip to Hawaii.
You tell me honestly if in two years time Dug tells you he is going to watch the Tour De France instead of accompanying you to Hawaii you would be so understanding about it.His wife's friends OWN the condo and I find it very hard to believe that this is the only week they can get away.Why doesn't she suggest both of them go another week instead.Her waiting for him to leave and then texting him is a ****ty move,she hadn't the courage to talk face to face with him.
You sometimes have to call a spade a spade in this life and she is treating her husband badly and he should spell it out to her in words capable of one interpretation only.
Sorry, should have clarified. If he sends a message that she perceives as a big **** you, it could make any difficulties in the relationship even more challenging to deal with. No sense in escalating an already tense situation.

Did you see my post about our planning to go to Hawaii sometime during our 25th year?

We have to have a bigger window because we want to take our kids, and so need to be flexible.

Plus, our anniversary is during warm weather in our region. I want to go to Hawaii when we can really appreciate it, not when it is already nice right here where we live.

If Dug told me he could go and follow the Tour and stay for free with a friend, I would be happy for him. Not everyone has an opportunity like that.

I would expect an acknowledgement on the actual date, though, even if just a love letter and some delivered flowers. It is still a milestone.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #66 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 06:51 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

I would be hurt too, WOM.
She is trying to get you to make the decision, which when combined with the fact that she even asked, shows her priority.

I just posed this scenario to F2 with the genders reversed. She said she would have been irritated.

After explaining, she said, "Wait, she did it by text? I'd be pissed! A real friend would give them the condo for their anniversary."

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post #67 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 06:53 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Your comment made me think of something. Maybe his wife doesn't want to celebrate 25 years of marriage. If she is unhappy and their relationship is struggling maybe pretending to be excited about their 25th is more than she wants to deal with. Maybe the thought of spending an entire day holding hands and playing romantic is so false to her she asked her friend if she could come to Hawaii to visit. If she feels there's nothing worth celebrating the day holds nothing but gloom and stress for her.
It is true that we do not hear from her. Maybe she is afraid of WOM, especially if he has a history of passive aggressive behavior.

That may be why she did not speak to him directly, but sent a text. It may have felt safer.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #68 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:10 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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It is true that we do not hear from her. Maybe she is afraid of WOM, especially if he has a history of passive aggressive behavior.

That may be why she did not speak to him directly, but sent a text. It may have felt safer.
You can make every excuse under the sun for her jld but the bottom line is she would prefer a girls only trip with her friend to Hawaii to celebrating with her husband and family what is a momentous occasion in any marriage.Now if that isn't a major **** you I never heard one.
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post #69 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:13 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

I think perhaps it's because I have never been married, only in long-term relationships. So I'll get that disclaimer out there right away.

I have never put any sort of importance in my adult life on anniversaries and holidays. The only one I want recognition for is my birthday, and I'm not even high maintenance about that. Sure, my feelings would be hurt in this situation, but I would get over it pretty quickly because I could always celebrate either before or after my spouse went to Hawaii. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

Whatever you do, like others have said here, don't do the passive-aggressive thing, or go dark. It is your own fault for candy coating your truth to her.

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post #70 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:16 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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You can make every excuse under the sun for her jld but the bottom line is she would prefer a girls only trip with her friend to Hawaii to celebrating with her husband and family what is a momentous occasion in any marriage.Now if that isn't a major **** you I never heard one.
Andy, did you read any of my other posts? I offered some explanations there.

Assuming the worst of our spouses is unlikely to lead to conflict resolution and close connection. Understanding their perspectives and their motives can.

I would not be surprised if she is low emo, just like Dug. They do not operate the same way high emo folks like WOM or I do.

But that does not make them bad or wrong. Just different.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #71 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:20 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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I think perhaps it's because I have never been married, only in long-term relationships. So I'll get that disclaimer out there right away.

I have never put any sort of importance in my adult life on anniversaries and holidays. The only one I want recognition for is my birthday, and I'm not even high maintenance about that. Sure, my feelings would be hurt in this situation, but I would get over it pretty quickly because I could always celebrate either before or after my spouse went to Hawaii. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

Whatever you do, like others have said here, don't do the passive-aggressive thing, or go dark. It is your own fault for candy coating your truth to her.

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Another person wired like Dug and probably WOM's wife.

Thanks for speaking up, Lucy.

This may truly be nothing personal from your wife, WOM. Just how she is wired.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #72 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:24 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Andy, did you read any of my other posts? I offered some explanations there.

Assuming the worst of our spouses is unlikely to lead to conflict resolution and close connection. Understanding their perspectives and their motives can.

I would not be surprised if she is low emo, just like Dug. They do not operate the same way high emo folks like WOM or I do.

But that does not make them bad or wrong. Just different.
You offered what in your opinion were excuses for her behaviour not explanations because nobody on this forum knows her or what she is like.
However for someone with a low emo(whatever that is) she had a nice weekend away for MOTHERS day,but it seems like a lot of entitled people her motto is it's "all about me".
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post #73 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:29 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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You offered what in your opinion were excuses for her behaviour not explanations because nobody on this forum knows her or what she is like.
However for someone with a low emo(whatever that is) she had a nice weekend away for MOTHERS day,but it seems like a lot of entitled people her motto is it's "all about me".
What do you see as an excuse versus an explanation?

I get the impression you have already judged her and decided what you believe to be the only acceptable way of handling an anniversary.

If WOM takes that one-sided approach, how is it going to help him?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #74 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:45 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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What do you see as an excuse versus an explanation?

I get the impression you have already judged her and decided what you believe to be the only acceptable way of handling an anniversary.

If WOM takes that one-sided approach, how is it going to help him?
Well to start with I am not in favour of separate vacations and I would not be happy if my partner wanted to have one.I have been reading this forum for almost a year and there are a couple of things that spring out at me that seem to be very common in regards to relationship difficulties.One of them is when a few women go on vacation without their husbands,one cheats and the others cover up.Another is where one partner "needs space" and this usually ends up as infidelity.I am not for one minute suggesting that this is the case here.
I believe in preventing problems rather than fixing them.
You are probably about to tell me I'm controlling,insecure and jealous.
But I'm not.
If my gf wanted to go on a girls only trip to Vegas for two weeks I would give her my blessing and pay for her trip.
She wouldn't be my girlfriend any more though.
As for Wom,he is doing what any normal man would do,he is feeling belittled by his wife and her passive aggressiveness is not a sign of someone afraid of her husband.He should tell her enjoy her trip and he will see her when they are back home.

Last edited by Andy1001; 05-17-2017 at 07:51 AM.
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post #75 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:59 AM
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Re: 25th anniversary separate trip

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Well to start with I am not in favour of separate vacations and I would not be happy if my partner wanted to have one.I have been reading this forum for almost a year and there are a couple of things that spring out at me that seem to be very common in regards to relationship difficulties.One of them is when a few women go on vacation without their husbands,one cheats and the others cover up.Another is where one partner "needs space" and this usually ends up as infidelity.I am not for one minute suggesting that this is the case here.
I believe in preventing problems rather than fixing them.
You are probably about to tell me I'm controlling,insecure and jealous.
But I'm not.
If my gf wanted to go on a girls only trip to Vegas for two weeks I would give her my blessing and pay for her trip.
She wouldn't be my girlfriend any more though.
Okay, I won't say it.

J/k!

WOM's wife took a vacation some time back with his kids, without him. It does not sound like this is out of the ordinary in their family.

I personally would not want to take a vacation away from my husband. I love being with him and feel best with him.

But he is often gone for work, and his vacation time is limited. Plus, we have several younger kids still at home who are involved in activities. It is cheaper and more practical to have a parent here at all times.

So last year I went by myself to Europe to see my daughter during her study abroad year. I spent a week in Switzerland with her, and then 9 days in Spain. It would have been great to have the whole family there, but would have been expensive and a lot more work.

And next year, when she is in Asia, I intend to go visit her with the little boys for a month or 6 weeks. Dug is very unlikely to join us. No issue at all for him. He just wants us to enjoy ourselves.

Two people can operate according to different standards without either one of them being wrong or bad.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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