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I am pondering whether or not people truly understand what feminism is.
Women often call themselves feminists, yet many of us fully expect a man to pay for them or support them. With rights come responsibilities and I have noticed that some women want all the rights, but not the rest of what having rights entails.
At the other end of the spectrum are men who believe that "feminist" is the same as "man hater". I have noticed a trend with men I have known in real life as well as TAM. The vast majority of these males are certain that the women's movements ruined families and men's roles in society.
I cannot rightfully call myself a feminist. I will freely admit that I enjoyed having a man pay for me when we went out, while I played the field before I was married. I have always enjoyed doing domestic things for men that I cared about, because those men were lovingly making my life easier. I love to see men that promptly take heavy objects from women and also men who give up seats for us. It was harder to live independently and I am more than relieved that my husband is the main breadwinner: less headaches and worry for me! Equal rights and choice are great, but since I do not want the responsibilities of equality, I am not really a feminist.
I am pondering whether or not people truly understand what feminism is.
Women often call themselves feminists, yet many of us fully expect a man to pay for them or support them. With rights come responsibilities and I have noticed that some women want all the rights, but not the rest of what having rights entails.
At the other end of the spectrum are men who believe that "feminist" is the same as "man hater". I have noticed a trend with men I have known in real life as well as TAM. The vast majority of these males are certain that the women's movements ruined families and men's roles in society.
I cannot rightfully call myself a feminist. I will freely admit that I enjoyed having a man pay for me when we went out, while I played the field before I was married. I have always enjoyed doing domestic things for men that I cared about, because those men were lovingly making my life easier. I love to see men that promptly take heavy objects from women and also men who give up seats for us. It was harder to live independently and I am more than relieved that my husband is the main breadwinner: less headaches and worry for me! Equal rights and choice are great, but since I do not want the responsibilities of equality, I am not really a feminist.
Discuss.
I think the vast majority of women in america feel like you do.
There are also women in the spectrum that made feminism about hating men.
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." [/B]-- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan
"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."
-- Robin Morgan
"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo."
-- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto
"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things."
-- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin
Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon
"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." -- Sharon Stone; Actress
"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins
"All men are rapists and that's all they are"
-- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisories to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)
Can you understand how that can be confusing?
I grew up during ERA and the beginning of the feminist movement. While the stated goals of those movements were, and are, very legitimate, the amount of hatred that was generated against men was astounding. Up to and including Patricide against an entire gender.
Hatred that came from some, but not all, of the "leaders" of the movement.
To make it worse, there are literally no rules to the game.
Hold a door open for one, she thanks you and goes through.
Hold a door open for another, she hisses at you that your a Chauvinist pig. (real life example)
And people wonder why men aren't acting like men anymore.
There are also women in the spectrum that made feminism about hating men.
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." [/B]-- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan
"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."
-- Robin Morgan
"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo."
-- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto
"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things."
-- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin
Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon
"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." -- Sharon Stone; Actress
"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins
"All men are rapists and that's all they are"
-- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisories to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.) Can you understand how that can be confusing?
I grew up during ERA and the beginning of the feminist movement. While the stated goals of those movements were, and are, very legitimate, the amount of hatred that was generated against men was astounding. Up to and including Patricide against an entire gender.
Hatred that came from some, but not all, of the "leaders" of the movement.
To make it worse, there are literally no rules to the game.
Hold a door open for one, she thanks you and goes through.
Hold a door open for another, she hisses at you that your a Chauvinist pig. (real life example)
And people wonder why men aren't acting like men anymore.
I heard a story once...it seems a gentleman opened a door for a lady, to which she snorted, "I can get the door myself, thank you very much, I don't need a man to do it for me."
To which the gentleman replied, "I was taught to always open a door for a lady. My mistake in assuming that you are one."
There is a difference between a woman and a LADY.
A lady lets a gentleman be a gentleman, with no contempt for him.
Not all women are ladies...not all men are gentleman. But it's poor judgment to have one or two bad experiences and lump the entire gender in with the bad apples.
The biggest problem with feminism is that it means different things to different feminists.
The second biggest problem is that people that don't identify with feminism think it is all one big package and because they don't approve of the man-hater wing of feminism, they dismiss it in its entirety.
To me, Feminism is as simple as believing in equal rights for all and for allowing others to choose their own lifestyle without judgement no matter what you choose to do with your own life.
This also means recognizing what each gender can bring to the table as both have contributed to society.
I love good men. They love and care. They try to understand. They are patient and kind. They will hold a woman when she needs it and listen to her ramble. They support. They sacrifice.
Most importantly, good men understand that women communicate differently and will attempt to reach her on that level.
There are more Stay At Home Dads nowadays, too.
I really dislike the ilk that follows the line of thought that Men are horrible, loathsome creatures because Misandry only hinders progress.
Really, most Feminist would love to communicate with men and share our ideas and would listen to men's ideas.
I do consider myself a Feminist but I love it when I get an admiring glance.
When men hold doors for me or address me as Miss/Ma'am, I see it more as being polite and I'll even look you in the eye and thank you when you do it. Plus, I am a person that will hold a door for you, no matter what the gender!
I am a student and an artist.
One room in our house is my studio/library and it's a constant clutter.
I frequently ship items or going to the art museum to check out exhibits or I'm rushing off to set up for a show.
However, I will cook dinner no matter what time my husband gets home from work and enjoy making love with him.
My husband is the breadwinner and while he tells me all about the finances and while I can always access the records, he actually handles the 401K and which stocks to invest in etc. and that's fine with me since I've never had the best head for such things.
My life is what I choose to make it and I will not put my personal expectations on anyone else's life and I expect the same in turn.
When I first started browsing this board, one of the first threads I tried to participate in was a feminism thread...then I realized what an utter CF it was and promptly washed my brain of it.
I'm a stay at home mom, and I consider myself a feminist.
I call myself a feminist because my eyes are continuously open to the ways our society continuously and overtly objectifes women.
I call myself a feminist because it is so disgusting how prevelant rape culture is and I want to be out there fighting against it as much as possible.
I call myself a feminist because I firmly believe in the value of women in this world and have experienced firsthand how that value is degraded, infantilized, trivialized, misused and abused and I want to call it out.
This is actually pretty hard to delinate without using the two dreaded p's.
My issues with modern feminism are the transphobia, the western-centric values and the shunting of women of color. Radfem definitely has a POV which I don't always agree with.but I like reading more perspectives and I think it's often misinterpreted. I also like some of the anger and it keeps my own awareness up.
Yeah, I might steer clear of this one after some more replies too. LOL. Posted via Mobile Device
a long time ago... maybe 15 years ago I was flippong TV channels and I stopped where some guy was interviewing Darrius Rucker (sp?) of the then up and coming 'Hootie and the Blowfish'.
The interviewer was trying a particular angle which was this: "Whats it like to be in an 'interracial band'." I remember laghing out loud at Ruckers face and reaction which was pretty much 'Is this guy serious'?
I think the entire concept of having to think about 'feminism' and its place in society is as anachronistic as wondering about Hootie and the blowfish being an 'interracial band'.
People are people. Talk to me about what you do, how you live your life, how you treat others, what makes you happy, what motivates you, what your dreams are... and we will have something to discuss. Feminism was much more relevant topic... certainly one of critical social importance in say the 30s and 40's even the 60s/70's. That is all a far cry from the perfectly wide range of life choices women in the US can today make without even batting an eyelash.
I also want to suggest that 'feminism' does not preclude holding a door for a lady or noticing her as others mention frequently here.
I usually open the door at doorways for ladies or at the elevator.. but I do it for guys too. Its simply being polite. I also let elders cut in front of me at the store or have my seat on public transportation. I dont believe I have ever seen anyone take offense at any of it. I suppose if I did, it may say more about their own grace (or lack of it) than it does about my 'misguided' deference or intentons.
I call myself a feminist because my eyes are continuously open to the ways our society continuously and overtly objectifes women.
I call myself a feminist because it is so disgusting how prevelant rape culture is and I want to be out there fighting against it as much as possible.
I call myself a feminist because I firmly believe in the value of women in this world and have experienced firsthand how that value is degraded, infantilized, trivialized, misused and abused and I want to call it out.
This is actually pretty hard to delinate without using the two dreaded p's.
My issues with modern feminism are the transphobia, the western-centric values and the shunting of women of color. Radfem definitely has a POV which I don't always agree with.but I like reading more perspectives and I think it's often misinterpreted. I also like some of the anger and it keeps my own awareness up.
a long time ago... maybe 15 years ago I was flippong TV channels and I stopped where some guy was interviewing Darrius Rucker (sp?) of the then up and coming 'Hootie and the Blowfish'.
The interviewer was trying a particular angle which was this: "Whats it like to be in an 'interracial band'." I remember laghing out loud at Ruckers face and reaction which was pretty much 'Is this guy serious'?
I think the entire concept of having to think about 'feminism' and its place in society is as anachronistic as wondering about Hootie and the blowfish being an 'interracial band'.
People are people. Talk to me about what you do, how you live your life, how you treat others, what makes you happy, what motivates you, what your dreams are... and we will have something to discuss. Feminism was much more relevant topic... certainly one of critical social importance in say the 30s and 40's even the 60s/70's. That is all a far cry from the perfectly wide range of life choices women in the US can today make without even batting an eye
It's only anachronistic if you don't experience it every single day. Hootie got it from all sides, and let me tell you it gets really exahausting being held as a representative of a whole group.
Feminism is still relevant. There are waves of feminism, each having its own fights. First wave included the Suffragettes. Second wave was Betty Friedman and the fight to get women into the workplace etc. Third wave (the most recent wave) includes issues like continued pay inequality, "pink collar" jobs, sex-positivism, the pros/cons of the porn industry, objectification, media analysis and the inclusion of more female voices than just straight white women.
The thing is, people do still bat an eye. Women still get called ball-busters, biotches and failures as women if they decide to pursure a career first. Our secretary of state got absolutely run all over for daring to be as ambitious as her husband. All relevant adjustments made, women still earn less than men. There are still huge Good Ol Boys clubs that without inclusion, you still hit a glass ceiling. Women are constantly valued first by looks then by acomplishments and so frustratingly frequently your accomplishments mean nothing if your looks aren't within the very narrow standard of beauty. Our first lady is crazy smart, talented, wellrounded AND
in shape as well as pretty and has constantly been reduced to "her fat ass" or "not model beauty."
Women still have issues to fight, feminists are still out here for a reason. Posted via Mobile Device
EDIT: What I'm really trying to say is that it's easy to say "people are people" if you are a person who is 100% validated as a person and not constantly, subtly and overtly reminded that you are an "other" person.
Feminism isn't feminism in society (general statement) or media.
True feminism is about equality the marxist feminism we have come to know as a society isn't about equality.
I'm an equal opportunist not a feminist. In other words I expect to be treated like a human being, an equal regardless of what's on my chest or between my legs (or not) as much as any other human being out there.
For instance - If I were to haul off out of no where and punch a man in the mouth for no reason I expect the equal and opposite reaction from that man because if that man did it to me you bet I'm coming back out swinging myself. I'm human, he's human it's a natural human reaction to something so intense and out of no where for no reason.
I hold my own intellectually, emotionally, mentally and even physically (thank you mom for self defense classes that are practical and love of martial arts).
The second biggest problem is that people that don't identify with feminism think it is all one big package and because they don't approve of the man-hater wing of feminism, they dismiss it in its entirety.
Good point. If the late Ms. Solanas and others like her had been soundly denounced from within the movement instead of praised as witty satirists, that problem might not be so big now.
The feminist movement had noble goals at it's inception. Unfortunately, the it was taken over by wealthy, entitled politically connected women, who were disconnected from the cares and worries of the average American woman.
While they are busy hissing at gentleman, the average women is looking for decent and affordable daycare for her kids so she can contribute to the family income in these hard economic times.
If the modern day feminist care so much about women, why are they not taking up the concerns of real life women?
They made themselves irrelevant when they sat on their laurels (azzes) and baited men with trash talk.
People forget that there was a women's right movement that gained strength in ernest as far back as 1848 at a convention in Seneca Falls NY. 30 or so women came up with a declaration of sentiments. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0875901.html
I am grateful for the many brave and independent thinking and honorable women and men in and out of the women's right movement whose agenda was pure - to improve the lot of women.
I am glad that I have and my daughter and her daughters will have the freedom to develop their talents and contribute to society with the talents God gave us.
3Likes
Another Feminism Thread! 
With rights come responsibilities and I have noticed that some women want all the rights, but not the rest of what having rights entails.
Equal rights and choice are great, but since I do not want the responsibilities of equality, I am not really a feminist. 
Re: Another Feminism Thread! 
