everyones option: breaking up
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default everyones option: breaking up

i'm really surprised about the amount of responses here to everyone's problems is simply to 'break up'. yes, people make mistakes, but surely just 'breaking up' with them is not necessarily the answer? otherwise why would they be posting here in the first place.

aren't relationships supposed to be things that require constant care and healing... mistakes, as horrible as they are, happen... and if people are not prepared to tolerate them and try to improve things, then what hope is there for anyone?

just a thought - wondering on other opinions...
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

It depends if it is a mistake or if it is deliberate intent.

A mistake is saying something insensitive when angry and later regretting it. Deliberate intent is cheating on your pregnant wife and videotaping the escapades (as one poster here did) and then expecting the wife to stay after being caught. Seems to me the plan then was to record it so he could later go back and watch it for enjoyment. I don't see any reason for his wife to stay then. Seems like he's a cad and likely will be one for a long time. He called it a mistake after he was caught (she found the tape) and then he decided to do damage control. That doesn't seem like real remorse though. Criminals often claim to be sorry after they are arrested. Do you think most of them are truly sorry though, or are they just sorry they were caught? I'm certainly not saying this man is a criminal, I do think though that being caught (whether as a criminal or a cheating mate) and then being "sorry" after the fact is not the same as if you came clean upfront. One shows a situation where you essentially now *have* to be sorry, the other is one where you chose to be on your own accord, hence why the person would come clean before being found out.

In other situations though it depends of course what the underlying issues are. If they are something like one doesn't feel the other does enough to help out, one feels the other isn't as sexually available as they would like, well I do think those can be worked on if both parties want to improve their relationship.

Anyway, I hope I don't sound terribly judgmental here, I'm pretty open minded in real life, I guess it doesn't translate well on the internet though. The issue of cheating is also a touchy subject for me as it has happened to people I care about. In their cases they forgave the cheating mate only to be later cheated on again. This was also after the cheater expressed how sorry they were, played devoted partner for a while and let the dust settle. I don't believe anyone should stay with cheaters if they have respect for themselves.

Last edited by Stir Crazy; 02-12-2012 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

I agree with you soundofthesphere to some degree ... I don't think people should just tolerate mistakes though if they are getting hurt in the process.

But I do understand what you mean when I read your comment. I have been viewing a few posts this last week and it is very easy for someone to say 'just divorce them', 'run for the hills' ... Mostly people are here to try and make it work, or looking for validation, or just to talk. We shouldn't advise people to leave their marriages when we only really know one side unless of course there are extreme circumstances like abuse, blatant disrespect etc.

A marriage involves two people, children, extended families, money etc ... real feelings and real people. And yes I agree with you, mistakes happen. And if there's love and willingness, however terrible the crime in the marriage, if there is hope their can be healing. Just because a partner is aloof or cheats, does not necessarily mean everytime they need to be advised to 'get out while you can!' because most of the time, they don't want to hear that, they want advice on how to make it work.

You wouldn't tell your best friend to leave their marriage unless you were absolutely sure of the situation.
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

When it's the person who's been cheating and lying and offering up abuse for 5 years, and then when the cheated keeps on suggesting the cheater complete individual therapy and then join her in marriage therapy, and he declines and suggests divorce after learning that she has grown not to accept abuse and to call it out and question it, and not buy into the 'you need to get over this and move forward' and 'this relationship can never work because you don't trust me' (no kidding, and after he/she lied for 5 years it would be expected that he/she would be trustworthy, just because he/she says he/she is....?)it's kind of difficult not to accept! To me, it sounded like a splendid option, best idea my spouse came up with yet for our relationship, that would ACTUALLY work, and not require significant self-delusion on my part. It was the one sane and reliable option I had. And I owed myself to accept.

Sometimes people who are in co-dependent relationships, on either side, I might add, can't deal with those relationships any more when the abuse cycle is brought to a stop. So they want out, to be able to continue their addiction, and for the other party, it's an option too good to pass up.

I suspect there are a lot of co-dependents who should be dealing with co-dependency before coming to a marriage forum desperately seeking ways to be a better spouse, how to keep their spouse from cheating, blaming themselves, wanting to turn over every possible rock of what they did wrong, when they're already doing everything they possibly can before coming here...for their marriage to *last*, namely being party to a relationship that is unhealthy to begin with and never should have started.

It's like doing CPR on someone who's been dead for over an hour.
On someone who's died of the ebola.
Just perpetuates the trauma.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundofthesphere View Post
i'm really surprised about the amount of responses here to everyone's problems is simply to 'break up'. yes, people make mistakes, but surely just 'breaking up' with them is not necessarily the answer? otherwise why would they be posting here in the first place.

aren't relationships supposed to be things that require constant care and healing... mistakes, as horrible as they are, happen... and if people are not prepared to tolerate them and try to improve things, then what hope is there for anyone?

just a thought - wondering on other opinions...
It is about having boundaries. It is about giving a marriage the best chance to work. Very often the only way to save a marriage is to be willing to walk away. Counter intuitive ... yes. Not getting a divorce does not mean there is a marriage.

And yes, marriages require constant care and priority.

See "His Needs Her Needs".

A couple cannot work on a marriage if one of them is in an affair. They are having thier needs met by others. Affairs are checmical. Just like an addiction. The Oxytocin and dopamine chemicals are very strong. Even when a spouse agrees to break out of the affair they have to do through withdrawal that can take weeks or months of complete no contact.

So it usually takes the impending loss of the "primary" relationship to get the WS to break out of the affair. This cannot be an idle threat as cheaters will adapt to that.

After the affair is killed, then and only then can a couple work on thier issues. Be aware though that even good marriages are vulnerable to affairs under the right circumstances.

Last edited by Entropy3000; 02-12-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

Of all the relationship boards that I have visited, I have found this one to be the most restrained in terms of not meting out so quickly the tired old "accept/reject" paradigm or drop his sorry ass.

I realise that there could come a point in every relationship and type of relationship that it must be dissolved. But I try to look for strategies to avoid that point to the extent possible.

I like the way this board makes definition suggestions about going forward in relationship like
1) an R is impossible when the WS is still seeing the AP.
2) transparency is required for a relationship and so on.

That second one has been very helpful for me going forward. Fortunately, my guy offered to let me see his FB account, e-mail account and text messages before I even thought I had the "right to ask.

But after thinking things through, I feel strongly that if a guy expects me to turn down dating other men and to reserve my free time solely for him (or to explain why not when we do things apart), then, quite frankly, he owes. If he wants to stay up late texting someone, slip out one Saturday night to see "just a friend" and then expect to still hang around, ummm, no I won't.

And what's really important here, is that I nipped this in the bid sooner rather later, so less damage to the relationship.

So add getting to grips with issues sooner rather than later as part of the strategy.

I'm not married now but EAs wrecked my marriage so I want to learn how to handle these things when it's to get out than after the wedding.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

If someone is consistently being treated badly over time, and after repeated discussion and effort to change things, well, it seems like the best thing to do to stop the pain is to stop hitting your head against the same wall over and over.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

When people cheat they are prepared to act totally selfishly and hurt others. They have also bonded with someone else. They have acted contrary to their conscience and set themselves on a path that will destroy their own family. You can't reason with a person like that. It would be like trying to reason with someone who has broken into your house to hurt you. You have to act. And your actions need to stop them from hurting you.

The way to do that is to remove their power over your relationship. In which case, there are two choices: leave, or force them to stop. Since we can't legally force people to do things, that leaves us with just the first option. Sometimes you can stop them by a show of force--i.e., demonstrating that you are prepared to leave.

A person who has an affair is a person who thinks that their actions will not have lasting negative consequences for them. If you can make them face the consequences of their actions, you can change their actions. Sometimes. Either way, you have to match the level of their actions with the threat of a similar level of consequences.

The only exception is when they willingly come to you of their own accord and beg for forgiveness, because they are now demonstrating that they are starting to listen to their conscience and have a willingness to make changes. That takes strength, even if it comes late. And strength is the only way they will change.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemaker_Numero_Uno View Post
When it's the person who's been cheating and lying and offering up abuse for 5 years, and then when the cheated keeps on suggesting the cheater complete individual therapy and then join her in marriage therapy, and he declines and suggests divorce after learning that she has grown not to accept abuse and to call it out and question it, and not buy into the 'you need to get over this and move forward' and 'this relationship can never work because you don't trust me' (no kidding, and after he/she lied for 5 years it would be expected that he/she would be trustworthy, just because he/she says he/she is....?)it's kind of difficult not to accept! To me, it sounded like a splendid option, best idea my spouse came up with yet for our relationship, that would ACTUALLY work, and not require significant self-delusion on my part. It was the one sane and reliable option I had. And I owed myself to accept.

Sometimes people who are in co-dependent relationships, on either side, I might add, can't deal with those relationships any more when the abuse cycle is brought to a stop. So they want out, to be able to continue their addiction, and for the other party, it's an option too good to pass up.

I suspect there are a lot of co-dependents who should be dealing with co-dependency before coming to a marriage forum desperately seeking ways to be a better spouse, how to keep their spouse from cheating, blaming themselves, wanting to turn over every possible rock of what they did wrong, when they're already doing everything they possibly can before coming here...for their marriage to *last*, namely being party to a relationship that is unhealthy to begin with and never should have started.

It's like doing CPR on someone who's been dead for over an hour.
On someone who's died of the ebola.
Just perpetuates the trauma.
I think I completely agree with you about what you have said.. but in that instance there was attempt to fix it first...

I guess what I'm saying, is in my opinion, the first option should always be to look at ways of healing.. obviously this will not always work, but i'm just surprised at 'some' of the posts where the first reaction is 'just dump their sorry ass' if you know what i mean...
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

Or to put it another way, you can't trust a venomous snake to not bite you. It's in their nature. You have to avoid it.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Talking Re: everyones option: breaking up

Yes there are lost of post telling people to leave their marriage. But there are also a lot of post telling them how to damage controll and try to heal things in their marriage.
I think it looks pretty balanced around here and for every leave them post there is a stay post.
There are so many veiws and options put up by the members here and I do not see them all as negitive. Just options, opinions, experiances, and lots of help.

BUT the #1 thing I see around here is support for whatever choice a person makes. If they stay or go they find support for that choice and help in the getting through it all.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

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Or to put it another way, you can't trust a venomous snake to not bite you. It's in their nature. You have to avoid it.
see, i don't know.. maybe i have a mistrusted faith in people that when it comes down to it, all human beings are good... i know that sounds naive, but i think maybe comparing any human being to a venomous snake is not productive... maybe a better way to put it would be "if you know someone is not right for you, then don't bother going back" i dunno.

yes hurt happens, and sometimes it will be so much that you can never go back to that person - but there are always two sides to pretty much any dispute in a relationship.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

Sometimes being productive means seeing a person and their actions for what they are good or bad. Looking for the good in a person will not make the bad go away.


I do not think I will ever heal from what my H did to us and our marriage. I only want to forgive for myself and forgetting will never happen. I could have left and some times when things get tough I wish I had. And then there are days I am glad I stayed.

He threw a bomb into my world and took away so much I had believed. I thought I had found someone who truely valued me, I was speical, loved, worthy, trust, protected, and more.
He could not hurt me more if he cut out my heart and offered it over to his EA P for lunch. I know there is good in my H but that does not change the facts.
He knew what he was doing and chose to do it anyways. The only productive thing about that is I am not blinding my self to his faults, mistakes, and the hell it has pushed me into.

Yes relationships are like a coin. There are two sides but if the perspective of the BS is one that is unhealthy and dangerouse sounding then there is a chance that leaving is the best option.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: everyones option: breaking up

If only one person is invested, the only viable option is to break up.

In many cases I have seen on this board, only one of the partners is fully invested in the relationship. I would say that seems to be MOST of the cases here.

You can't force the other person to care about you or the marriage. Since that is true, and the other person obviously doesn't care (fully), then the only option to resolve the issues are to break up.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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For me...it would depend what the problem was.
You use the word 'mistake'.. bit vague!

I'm thinking you mean an affair... this is a deal breaker for me.
To back up my feelings on this I know of several people (in the real world) whose spouses had affairs. Their marriages have never been the same again, the trust is gone and can never be repaired to what it was BEFORE the affair and it effects them deeply. I don't think I could ever get over that loss of trust.. IMO it's the foundation to our marriage.

BUT you do hear of people on boards like this who DO get over these 'mistakes' and feel their relationship is strong and even sometimes better afterwards.

Other kinds of 'mistakes'??? As long as there was no abuse I would do what ever I needed to do to try to save a failing marriage and would encourage anyone else to as well.

So you just have to take what you want from the advice given here... the bits that resonate with you and always remember anys advice comes from each individuals perspective.

Last edited by waiwera; 02-12-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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