General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
My SO and I have quite different views on an individual's right to privacy within a relationship, and I know when I've read similar topics on here there have been diverging opinions.
Tonight he accused me of "withholding intimacy" because I asserted (what I believe to be) my right to my privacy. A few nights ago he had asked me what I was reading on my e-reader and I said it was a self-help book, without going into further detail -- it was a book about emotional unavailability. I avoided telling him specifically which book it was because in the past he has immediately personalized the subject ("Oh, so you think I'm emotionally unavailable??") and has also mocked me quite nastily for reading self-help books. I did explain this to him at the time and he denied ever doing it -- he says I must have misunderstood him. There have also been times that he has criticized the novels that he's seen me read, saying that they're "stupid". So I'm a bit wary of revealing my reading material!
Bottom line, unless I'm reading a manifesto on how to murder one's SO and escape undetected , I don't see why it matters what I'm reading. Normally he can just glance at the cover of the book and know the answer in a second; he doesn't have that advantage with the e-reader.
So tonight he started in on me about being secretive and said he had just been making conversation, whereas I was "rude and hostile" by refusing to anwer his question about the book I was reading. I explained that, in a general sense, people have the right to not provide information according to their own boundaries -- he seems to feel that posing the question obligates the other person to answer, that he is somehow entitled to have his curiosity satisfied. The same if he asks me "What are you thinking about?".
He got pissed off and walked out. Over this.
My question: how much privacy can an individual reasonably expect within a relationship?
Highly personal topic. Me, my opinion is that the only appropriate privacy in a marriage is the privacy you have on a toilet. Everything else is fair game.
Highly personal topic. Me, my opinion is that the only appropriate privacy in a marriage is the privacy you have on a toilet. Everything else is fair game.
Eeek. So no privacy of thought?
I think part of the problem stems from the fact that he grew up in a very large family where there was essentially NO privacy (not even on the toilet) and I grew up in a much smaller one, where "prying" into someone else's business was considered impolite.
Highly personal topic. Me, my opinion is that the only appropriate privacy in a marriage is the privacy you have on a toilet. Everything else is fair game.
i agree, unless of course, you feel you have something to hide.
if you act secretively, dont be surprised when the partner, rightfully so, feels like you are hiding something and becomes suspicious.
TwoDogs,
The fact that you are capable of being artfully funny under duress "bolded item below" tells me you are likely highly sane and rational.
IMO - there are very few situations in a relationship where you truly are obligated to provide answers. The ebook/what are you thinking examples do not apply. As for his denial of prior bad behavior - be careful if there is a pattern of that.
>>>>>>>> Bottom line, unless I'm reading a manifesto on how to murder one's SO and escape undetected , I don't see why it matters what I'm reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoDogs
My SO and I have quite different views on an individual's right to privacy within a relationship, and I know when I've read similar topics on here there have been diverging opinions.
Tonight he accused me of "withholding intimacy" because I asserted (what I believe to be) my right to my privacy. A few nights ago he had asked me what I was reading on my e-reader and I said it was a self-help book, without going into further detail -- it was a book about emotional unavailability. I avoided telling him specifically which book it was because in the past he has immediately personalized the subject ("Oh, so you think I'm emotionally unavailable??") and has also mocked me quite nastily for reading self-help books. I did explain this to him at the time and he denied ever doing it -- he says I must have misunderstood him. There have also been times that he has criticized the novels that he's seen me read, saying that they're "stupid". So I'm a bit wary of revealing my reading material!
Bottom line, unless I'm reading a manifesto on how to murder one's SO and escape undetected , I don't see why it matters what I'm reading. Normally he can just glance at the cover of the book and know the answer in a second; he doesn't have that advantage with the e-reader.
So tonight he started in on me about being secretive and said he had just been making conversation, whereas I was "rude and hostile" by refusing to anwer his question about the book I was reading. I explained that, in a general sense, people have the right to not provide information according to their own boundaries -- he seems to feel that posing the question obligates the other person to answer, that he is somehow entitled to have his curiosity satisfied. The same if he asks me "What are you thinking about?".
He got pissed off and walked out. Over this.
My question: how much privacy can an individual reasonably expect within a relationship?
Secondly, this is not a question of privacy or boundaries. You weren't on the toilet. If your husband asks what you are doing on the internet or what you're reading, you should be willing and forthcoming with the answers. Otherwise, you could quite easily begin issues that are matters of trust. The last thing you want is to end up wondering and feeling insecure about who he is talking to or whose blogs he's reading. That's where your "privacy and boundaries" is headed. And when it all starts, you won't possess the presence of mind to remember you are the one who started that mess. Moreover, you called yourself protecting yourself and preventing an argument, but an argument ensued anyway, didn't it? And you weren't so protected afterall.
First and foremost, he makes conversation by asking what you are reading, not by criticizing what you read and thereby (and quite insultingly), criticize you and the reading material. However, what he does (and says) is not nearly so important as what you do about what he does (and says). You took it from him and allowed him to judge, belittle, and berate you, and then you allowed him to entirely dismiss your expressions and feelings about his insults by placing the blame, the offense, and the breakdown in communication squarely on your shoulders. He stormed out of the room like a wounded child. In other words....according to him....you offended yourself AND him. What kind of mess is that?
Your solutions were to first hide the subject matter of your reading material so as to prevent him belittling you over it, and then you submitted to an entirely different (and pointless) argument about privacy and boundaries. You will forever flip, flop, and fly around in the dust of his wrath if you keep getting caught up like this and not stand up for yourself.
The polite and engaging thing for him to do (since he so sincerely CLAIMS he was only making conversation) would have been to further inquire of your reading material in such a way that he proved himself considerate, interested, and engaging (in conversation). You know, he could have shown a little interest and possibly improve himself by it. Honestly though, I don't know what you are learning if this is example of how you handle things with your husband. Stand up for yourself and rather than constantly trying to sneak and hide to protect yourself from his judgmental and offensive nature, stop him in his tracks when he offends you.
Teach him how to treat you. If your feelings are hurt when he says these things, then you know you have no business allowing him to say them. Let him know you do not live your life by his permission or approval. Therefore, sharing with him what you are reading does not give him license to make you out to be two feet tall for reading it. Make sure he understands if he has no nice, considerate, and/or engaging responses, then shut the hell up and keep his opinions to himself.
if you act secretively, dont be surprised when the partner, rightfully so, feels like you are hiding something and becomes suspicious.
SO is a bit of a nosey parker -- not much escapes his notice, and his curiosity. He'll check out the return addresses on my mail if I've left it lying on the table and ask me something like "What was that letter from _____ about?" When the voicemail light is flashing he'll ask who the message is from, and if I don't listen to it in his presence he'll ask why I don't want him to hear it. If my bankbook was out in plain view he'd think nothing of picking it up and flipping through it. All in the name of "intimacy". (Note that we are not married, and don't live together, so all of this takes place in my home)
I used to think nothing of telling him what I was reading, it's no big deal. Until he started taking that information and using it against me. He has ridiculed me in front of other people (a fairly intellectual crowd) for reading a low-brow bestseller. During fights he has told me I'm "f'ed up" and neurotic from reading self-books. When I first joined Al-Anon I was immersing myself in program literature, and he commented derisively every few days to ask me if I was ever going to read anything different. So I just got to a point where I felt that I didn't want to give him any more weapons in my choice of reading material if it was something that would potentially get thrown in my face down the road.
SO is a bit of a nosey parker -- not much escapes his notice, and his curiosity. He'll check out the return addresses on my mail if I've left it lying on the table and ask me something like "What was that letter from _____ about?" When the voicemail light is flashing he'll ask who the message is from, and if I don't listen to it in his presence he'll ask why I don't want him to hear it. If my bankbook was out in plain view he'd think nothing of picking it up and flipping through it. All in the name of "intimacy". (Note that we are not married, and don't live together, so all of this takes place in my home)
I used to think nothing of telling him what I was reading, it's no big deal. Until he started taking that information and using it against me. He has ridiculed me in front of other people (a fairly intellectual crowd) for reading a low-brow bestseller. During fights he has told me I'm "f'ed up" and neurotic from reading self-books. When I first joined Al-Anon I was immersing myself in program literature, and he commented derisively every few days to ask me if I was ever going to read anything different. So I just got to a point where I felt that I didn't want to give him any more weapons in my choice of reading material if it was something that would potentially get thrown in my face down the road.
if you are not married or living together and he is being this way, ask yourself, is this the kind of relationship you you really want? it doesnt sound like it, which is fine, but you should move on that.
when my exgf would come visit me from australia, i had no problems with her asking me things or going through my things.
i loved her and had nothing to hide so i didnt mind one bit.
Stand up for yourself and rather than constantly trying to sneak and hide to protect yourself from his judgmental and offensive nature, stop him in his tracks when he offends you.
Teach him how to treat you. If your feelings are hurt when he says these things, then you know you have no business allowing him to say them. Let him know you do not live your life by his permission or approval. Therefore, sharing with him what you are reading does not give him license to make you out to be two feet tall for reading it. Make sure he understands if he has no nice, considerate, and/or engaging responses, then shut the hell up and keep his opinions to himself.
I've tried that in the past and he uses the old "I was only joking" defense or he repeats his exact words in a pleasant, neutral tone instead of the actual mocking tone in which it was first delivered and asks "What's wrong with saying that?" (well, duh, tone is everything!). Then tells me I'm being overly sensitive.
I'd have to say that the biggest problems we've been having in the relationship lately are due to the fact that I am stopping him in his tracks more often instead of being the compliant little doormat that he was used to.
Sorry, I neglected your use of "SO" and not husband. And, after reading your last two responses, I am happy to know you are not married to this guy.........and you NEVER should be. Break away before you find yourself marrying your misery "all in the name of" love. I urge you to self-help yourself now. He is bordering on abusive, and it will only get worse. In fact, the more you complain and try to prevent him, the more tame he will make himself appear.....until you are married. I know you don't believe me right now, but I hope you are (or quickly become) the kind of person who has the good sense to learn by the mistakes of others. The mistakes of others you ask? Just read these boards. You are not one of a kind. Your SO is not one a kind. Your relationship is not special. Nobody's is. Everyone just manages to convince themselves otherwise. Everything you have shared here are the very common attributes of disaster.
when my exgf would come visit me from australia, i had no problems with her asking me things or going through my things.
i loved her and had nothing to hide so i didnt mind one bit.
I really don't have anything to hide -- I have the most boring, mundane life imaginable! -- except when the stuff gets hurled at me later, or gets aired publicly. I mean, I'd have no qualms about telling my friends or coworkers that I'd read a trashy novel, but not to have that information dropped into a conversation about literature as if to discredit me.
I'm going to leave this thread alone now but responded one more time to make a correction and another suggestion......
1. I stated he was bordering on abusive. I was wrong and misleading. He crossed the border a long time ago and has taken up residence.
2. I hope you will re-read everything you've written here and reeeaaally think about it......because I'm wondering why you're still with this guy. Why aren't you wondering? You can be yet another one who later repeats in remorseful refrains "Why didn't I listen?" Or.......
Sorry, I neglected your use of "SO" and not husband. And, after reading your last two responses, I am happy to know you are not married to this guy.........and you NEVER should be. Break away before you find yourself marrying your misery "all in the name of" love. I urge you to self-help yourself now. He is bordering on abusive, and it will only get worse. In fact, the more you complain and try to prevent him, the more tame he will make himself appear.....until you are married. I know you don't believe me right now, but I hope you are (or quickly become) the kind of person who has the good sense to learn by the mistakes of others. The mistakes of others you ask? Just read these boards. You are not one of a kind. Your SO is not one a kind. Your relationship is not special. Nobody's is. Everyone just manages to convince themselves otherwise. Everything you have shared here are the very common attributes of disaster.
Thank you. I think I know this already, deep down, and just needed some validation? corroboration?
He's intellectually brilliant and is quite skilled at twisting everything around to point the blame at me -- he can rattle off an exhaustive list of my personal failings. And I've bought into his assessment of me to a large extent. He insists he's a "great guy" and a "good boyfriend".
2. I hope you will re-read everything you've written here and reeeaaally think about it......because I'm wondering why you're still with this guy. Why aren't you wondering? You can be yet another one who later repeats in remorseful refrains "Why didn't I listen?" Or.......
Oh, I'm wondering! I'm not the same person I was back at the beginning of the relationship when things went smoothly. If I had to pin a label on Old Me, I'd probably say "codependent".
Two years ago, following the death of a parent, I ended up in some very illuminating grief counselling, which turned into individual counselling -- primarily to resolve self-esteem issues. I also joined Al-Anon and am actively working a program.
But it takes a while to unlearn the old behaviours and practice new healthy ones, so the clouds are lifting slowly.
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Privacy and boundaries in relationships 
, I don't see why it matters what I'm reading. Normally he can just glance at the cover of the book and know the answer in a second; he doesn't have that advantage with the e-reader.
