General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
I spied because there was no logical explanation I could find for her behavior. I spied for 2 reasons, vet out an affair, or get insight to her thinking with the assumption she is not telling me what is truly going on.
My wife is not that sophisticated to go that underground. I have a screenshot program that lets me see exactly what she is doing and eliminates the threat of her deleting messages. She has no money. there is no secret cell phone, the mileage on the car is exactly as it should be for what she does and her time is all accounted for. If she was having an affair it would be extremely inconvenient.
It would have to look something like this: since she takes care of my 3 year old it would have to be during the time they are together. The OM would have to sneak in the back porch into our bedroom while my wife locks our little girl out. They would have to fVck fairly quickly since my girl routinely walks into the room and would be upset to find a locked door. The OM would then have to exit the back unseen by my 3 year old since she would surely mention "mommies friend" id she saw someone. If she took my 3 YO to OM's house then my girl would also surely speak of "mommies friend".
These nefariious activities would have to be arranged without a cell phone, home phone or computer. Basically a carrier pigeon at best.
The sad thing is that I have gotten so paranoid from this place that I rejected the logic behind my thinking and came home at the only time an affair would even be possiblt unannouned only to find her running on the treadmill, just as she says she is. I end up looking like needy a$$hole because I have to make a lame excuse for being there.
How about after her soccer game? Well, I have seen her teams and since this is rec. soccer the men are in far worse shape then me and out sex rank all of them. I am a fit, good looking hard working business man with a salary large enough to support my wife not working and to support her toys and hobbies. But even if that wasn't enough, the latest she has ever been after a soccer game is 1 hour so an affair would have to be slammed in there when they are both sweaty and smelly.
I have been to her games. It takes 1/2 hour just to re-hydrate afterwards and remove all of the pads.
How about an EA? Well once again it would have to be done without a cell phone, home phone or computer. If they are that good, they can have each other.
My wife and I have problems, no doubt. I can't tell if she is fantasizing about other men nor can I control it. But for me to be re-directed constantly to this angle is now foolish.
I'm just venting and I do appreciate what you all have said. I realize you guys know your stuff and far be it from me to think I know any better. I don't know what the problem in my marriage is, I just know what it is not.
I was hoping you could respect that I know at least that much.
Taken the wrong way
My question was merely... if you are ruling out an affair, and you don't find evidence, what do you do? Do you stop peeking? Seriously, have not seen this on here before.
Game plan question for those of us who are reading and in a similar situation. How long do you keep up the spyware? When does it become... intrusive.
Taken the wrong way
My question was merely... if you are ruling out an affair, and you don't find evidence, what do you do? Do you stop peeking? Seriously, have not seen this on here before.
Game plan question for those of us who are reading and in a similar situation. How long do you keep up the spyware? When does it become... intrusive.
If I had an unhappy wife, who cut me off I would use every tool in the book to find clues as to what is going on.
For daily grind this turned into a two year sex drought.
A woman has as much of a need for sex as a man. The difference is when things go really bad they will cut you off where a man will keep the sex going evenif things are going bad. She is sending Pauli a message but womn't explain it.
Could be physical and she may not know what the problem is but I doubt it.
Hope this isn't leading up to the ILYBINILWY speech. Looks like things are going better since he has with drawn a bit. Both spouses in a marriage pay better attn. When they are not 100% sure of the other spouse's total commitment. If your spouse isn't somewhat jealous you could be in deep trouble.
She doesn't want a divorce, but she's "not happy".
Paul, it's safe to assume that your wife is not cheating, I agree with you there. With that settled where do you intend to go from here?
I'm following the MAP and thats about it. Upped my alpha quite a bit over the last couple of weeks and stopped taking **** from her. When she does something wrong, inconsiderate or rude (like ignoring e-mails) I call her on it. She's suddenly apologizing for stuff which is very out of charecter.
We got into the conversation last night about marriage and vows and I told her what Athol Kay says about sex and the vows (in my own words) and out of nowhere she says "we can have sex anytime you want to". Ok, since when? Last I heard she didn't have a sex drive or want sex. Though she didn't say "I want sex" she didn't qualify the statement either to suggest she was just doing it.
Whatever. I didn't make much of a deal out of it and though I won't turn her down if she initiates, I am not going to initiate anytime soon. I'm going to stick with the MAP, keep pumping iron, NOT talk about the relationship unless she brings it up (like last night) and work late.
I want this marriage to become healthier than ever and as long as she actively works on it with me, then I will stick with her as long as it takes. I have made two things crystal clear to her: I will not stay in a sexless marriage and I will not live in limbo.
All of her soccer distractions end this weekend for the next 8 months and so does the friendship with her soccer friends (talking about the local pro-team, not her rec. team). It will be the perfect time for her to start focusing a little on us. If she does, then I'm all in. If she doesn't then I'll some decisions to make.
In the beginning although she didn't say it to you she told the girlfriend the equivalent af the ILUBNILWU.
She says you drink to much and say things when you are drunk. You say you did not say them. Exactly how much do you drink and how often?
She says she needs space, you give her some and things have gotten better. Do not discuss the relationship unless she starts it. Keep answers short honest and pleasant. Your too old for anger issues.
If she doesn't play video games, she may think they are unmanly. Is she just scrapbooking because you are otherwise occupied?
Facebook makes her wonder what you are up to when you show an interest in it.. Thats good.
How often do you take her out on dates?
Do you ever go alone or take the kids to the soccer games?
Keep up the distance, but be nice be strong, show absolutely no anger. Work out a lot. Don't over analyze her every move.
Most improtantly, when she asks you what is wrong ask her what she means. She says something like you are acting funny Tell her she is acting like she has one foot out the door. You are just protecting yourself and you also have one foot out the door. Tell her she says she is unhappy, tell her she basically gave you the ILUBNILWU speech(she won't remember she didn't say it directly to you) , tell her she said she wanted a separation and although nothing was wrong with her sex drive she sure didn't want sex with you. What does she think might be wrong with your attitude.
SHOW NO EMOTION like you are going to have to cut out a nasty growth.
See how she answers this . Do not argue. If she has nothing to offer let her think about it awhile.
In the beginning although she didn't say it to you she told the girlfriend the equivalent af the ILUBNILWU.
She says you drink to much and say things when you are drunk. You say you did not say them. Exactly how much do you drink and how often?
She says she needs space, you give her some and things have gotten better. Do not discuss the relationship unless she starts it. Keep answers short honest and pleasant. Your too old for anger issues.
If she doesn't play video games, she may think they are unmanly. Is she just scrapbooking because you are otherwise occupied?
Facebook makes her wonder what you are up to when you show an interest in it.. Thats good.
How often do you take her out on dates?
Do you ever go alone or take the kids to the soccer games?
Keep up the distance, but be nice be strong, show absolutely no anger. Work out a lot. Don't over analyze her every move.
Most improtantly, when she asks you what is wrong ask her what she means. She says something like you are acting funny Tell her she is acting like she has one foot out the door. You are just protecting yourself and you also have one foot out the door. Tell her she says she is unhappy, tell her she basically gave you the ILUBNILWU speech(she won't remember she didn't say it directly to you) , tell her she said she wanted a separation and although nothing was wrong with her sex drive she sure didn't want sex with you. What does she think might be wrong with your attitude.
SHOW NO EMOTION like you are going to have to cut out a nasty growth.
See how she answers this . Do not argue. If she has nothing to offer let her think about it awhile.
In the beginning although she didn't say it to you she told the girlfriend the equivalent af the ILUBNILWU.
She says you drink to much and say things when you are drunk. You say you did not say them. Exactly how much do you drink and how often?
She says she needs space, you give her some and things have gotten better. Do not discuss the relationship unless she starts it. Keep answers short honest and pleasant. Your too old for anger issues.
If she doesn't play video games, she may think they are unmanly. Is she just scrapbooking because you are otherwise occupied?
Facebook makes her wonder what you are up to when you show an interest in it.. Thats good.
How often do you take her out on dates?
Do you ever go alone or take the kids to the soccer games?
Keep up the distance, but be nice be strong, show absolutely no anger. Work out a lot. Don't over analyze her every move.
Most improtantly, when she asks you what is wrong ask her what she means. She says something like you are acting funny Tell her she is acting like she has one foot out the door. You are just protecting yourself and you also have one foot out the door. Tell her she says she is unhappy, tell her she basically gave you the ILUBNILWU speech(she won't remember she didn't say it directly to you) , tell her she said she wanted a separation and although nothing was wrong with her sex drive she sure didn't want sex with you. What does she think might be wrong with your attitude.
SHOW NO EMOTION like you are going to have to cut out a nasty growth.
See how she answers this . Do not argue. If she has nothing to offer let her think about it awhile.
Have you read MMSL yet?
After 7 pm at night I have a couple of rum and cokes to relax. I certainly don't get drunk. She is a night owl because she can get up when she wants and likes to have conversations at night in bed when I am tired. That is why I forget things sometimes, not the alcohol.
The video games are sporadic at most. Her interest in scrapbooking took hold when she started to stay at home and wanted to make a baby album. She made the album beautifully and the scrapbooking hobby took hold. We used to actually play video games together and occasionally still do.
We don't go out often because she doesn't trust anyone to watch the kids but her mom so we have limited opportunities.
I think her sex drive is not exclusively gone to me though she said that. She has a vibrator that she enjoys that has collected dust for as long as I have. She said that to me because she was pissed that I said it to the doctor. She admitted that much to me last night.
I have read MMSL hence my references to following the MAP.
Sounds like things may be getting better simply because you are doing things to make her feel she can no longer take you for granted.
How is the in house separation panning out. It doesn't look like its actually taken effect. Are you sleeping in separtate rooms?
"We don't go out often because she doesn't trust anyone to watch the kids but her mom so we have limited opportunities." This came as close to killing may marriage as it could have without a divorce. You HAVE to figure a way around this. Without dating and alone time you don't have a marriage. While she may not see it, I think this is the elephant in the room. Trust me I've been there. She would not find a sitter and I got the blame. Except for her mom who baby sit for us during the day.
You also need to work on her to get her sleep schedule inline with yours(since you are the one with a job). Dialy Grind has the same problem with dif schedules.
She hasn't found jack. This guy is an unemployed geek living with mommy who's whole life revolves aroung FB and soccer.
I'm embarrassed that I even considered she could possibly have an EA with him. She is also embarrased that I could even think that and ofcourse once again, I look like a pathetic ba$tard for even suggesting it.
All it ended up doing was insult my wife and drop me down a number on my sex rank which still places me at least 3 above his.
I don't agree. There are a number of stories here about women who have affaired down. You can't judge the possibility solely on how you perceive the other man.
Saying all of that, I want to be clear that I have no idea if she is in an EA or not. While it sounds like she is not, it does look like she is on the cusp of one. She is doing things (secret chats late at night with another man) that can only lead to no good. Even without an EA going on, these are issues and behaviors that you need to address. Secrets like that are not good for spouses. To me, this is part of the current issues with your wife, so it is critical that you don't dismiss them merely because your wife is not in an EA.
I don't agree. There are a number of stories here about women who have affaired down. You can't judge the possibility solely on how you perceive the other man.
Saying all of that, I want to be clear that I have no idea if she is in an EA or not. While it sounds like she is not, it does look like she is on the cusp of one. She is doing things (secret chats late at night with another man) that can only lead to no good. Even without an EA going on, these are issues and behaviors that you need to address. Secrets like that are not good for spouses. To me, this is part of the current issues with your wife, so it is critical that you don't dismiss them merely because your wife is not in an EA.
The wife has been nicer to me as of late and is sexually responsive to me. She mentioned a while back that she will have sex with me anytime that I want but I took that statement cautiously but sure enough, when I took her up on the offer it was good. I was half expecting her to act like she was a corpse (for which I already had it in my mind that I would certainly not go through with it) but she was very responsive. So much for no sex drive.
I have tuned up my alpha and have been working out and she is responding but there are still some issues and I am afraid they are mine.
You see, I am too sensitive and I read into everything. I'm reading into stuff my wife never even thought of and it is making me look like an idiot. It is causing fights which is huting my cause. I never was this way before she hit me with the "I'm not happy, I don't feel the same way about you" routine. Now she is trying to convince me that I read too much into what she said and it really was not as serious as it sounded.
The one friend that I caught her running her mouth with (keylogger) is now coming to visit for two weeks and I am scared that she will try to poison the relationship. I have no evidence of this but I sense it. It really isn't even her fault, my wife likes venting to her and through that I come out looking like the worlds biggest a$$.
We got into a fight tonight because I told my wife that I wanted to take her and her friend out to dinner. After she probed me awhile I came clean and said that I wanted the friend to get to know me before my wife threw me to the wolves.
Opened a can of worms I didn't mean to and now I really do feel like an a$$.
The wife has been nicer to me as of late and is sexually responsive to me. She mentioned a while back that she will have sex with me anytime that I want but I took that statement cautiously but sure enough, when I took her up on the offer it was good. I was half expecting her to act like she was a corpse (for which I already had it in my mind that I would certainly not go through with it) but she was very responsive. So much for no sex drive.
I have tuned up my alpha and have been working out and she is responding but there are still some issues and I am afraid they are mine.
You see, I am too sensitive and I read into everything. I'm reading into stuff my wife never even thought of and it is making me look like an idiot. It is causing fights which is huting my cause. I never was this way before she hit me with the "I'm not happy, I don't feel the same way about you" routine. Now she is trying to convince me that I read too much into what she said and it really was not as serious as it sounded.
The one friend that I caught her running her mouth with (keylogger) is now coming to visit for two weeks and I am scared that she will try to poison the relationship. I have no evidence of this but I sense it. It really isn't even her fault, my wife likes venting to her and through that I come out looking like the worlds biggest a$$.
We got into a fight tonight because I told my wife that I wanted to take her and her friend out to dinner. After she probed me awhile I came clean and said that I wanted the friend to get to know me before my wife threw me to the wolves.
Opened a can of worms I didn't mean to and now I really do feel like an a$$.
Read some of Daily Grinds thread. He gets himself worked up and immediately throws himself under the bus.
Its so beta to not have self control and show weakness. You just have to work on being silent when necessary. Its way better to leave her wondering than to open your mouth and take away all doubt.
So I have stepped back a little and looked at my situation and am proceeding with the following in mind. If you need additional details as to why I feel this way, please ask.
First, the relationship has been different over the last couple of weeks to a month. Really ever since I upped the alpha and stopped taking crap all of the time. Additionally, my situation no longer saddens me (just pisses me off from time to time) and she senses that.
I have been keeping tabs on her internet use still and she does occasionally still run her mouth about our situation to one particular friend in a way that ofcourse is one sided and makes me look like an a$$. BUT, heres the deal with that. 1) It is only to this one friend and the friend lives 2000 miles away which tells me she feels safe to vent to her knowing that I will never get close enough (more on that later) for this to get wierd. When I read some of the adjectives she uses to the friend such as "I don't feel the same way about him, something is missing, I feel trapped, I can't/won't go anywhere because he'll give me the third degree, benn pretending the last 3 to 4 years, can't take much more...." I have found creative ways to work them into a discussion without disclosing that I actually read them coming out of her mouth. When asked, she denies feeling any of this to me.
As a matter of fact, she is now backing off of her original "I'm not happy anymore" claim of a couple of months ago which started all of this in the first place. Now she like "look, I was unhappy about a couple of things that have been going on for years. I just need a little time to work it out". It is coming across as far less desperate a situation as it once seemed.
She's also brought sex back into the equation. She said to me last week that we could have sex any time I wanted so I tested the theory and she has delivered. Not in a "dead fish" sort of way but actually participating. This satisfies my first non-negotioable standard of not living in a sexless marriage.
She has stopped late night IM or any late night computer usage at all. BUT, is overly protective of the IM she does do by routinely erasing parts of conversations she doesn't want to run the risk of me seeing.
The sense that I am getting is that in her mind the marriage was never really in trouble but she wanted me to believe it was. She held onto to this strategy until it started backfiring with me becoming more assertive, setting non-negotiable standards and not being afraid to confront her un BS. I also have been straightening myself out physically and working the MAP.
Now she is acting protective towards maintaining the marriage in ways I am not supposed to see.
One last note, her long distance friend is arriving tomorrow for a two week visit with family and my wife is going to be spending time with her. She is purposefully trying to make sure I am not in any plans. She even lied last night and said her friend told her that she was there to see my wife and not her husband. I asked my wife "who would say something like that and can you imagining talking about her husband that way if you were visiting?" I also told her that the friend was rude since all I wanted to do was take them out to dinner and they could see each other any time they wanted after that without me. She then confessed that her friend didn't actually say that and that my wife made that up out of anger. She says she hasn't extended the invitation to her friend because she KNOWS she will say no. I think she is afraid her friend will say yes.
Should be an interesting 2 weeks. For the record as always, there is no EA or PA going on and the EA that everyone thought was coming with soccer friend was not to be. She routinely blocks him from seeing her online now that soccer season is over.
Any input would be appreciated as to what the heck is going on.
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Re: When the Pain Turns to Anger 
